PDGA Supporting Memberships

[terrycalhoun]

Congratulations on getting this underway, folks!

[johnbiscoe]

no doubt- long needed.

[skaZZirf]

Nice.

[Jebb]

double post

[Jebb]

Good idea, but incredibly confusing. We now have people with their new PDGA number (but no actual membership) showing up at tournies claiming to be PDGA current (not knowing any better) and avoiding the $10 fee before we realize whats up.

Seems it would make sense to name it "Pending Member"?

[PDGADirector]

Originally Posted by Jebb

Good idea, but incredibly confusing. We now have people who have their new PDGA number but no actual membership showing up at tournies claiming to be PDGA current and avoiding the $10 fee before we realize whats up.

Seems it would make sense to name it "Pending Member"

Jebb,

The new supporting members are treated the same as non-current PDGA members, who also have PDGA numbers. The "Supporting Member" name was necessitated because that level of membership is already defined in our current by-laws and creating a new membership level would require a change to the by-laws, which is a long and drawn out process. The easiest and most efficient way to determine if anyone is current or not is to pre-load your tournament player list into the PDGA's online scoring program and it will give you their status. Of course, we will still be providing TD's with a current members list from their region just as we always have.

The benefits of assigning numbers to all participants in PDGA events are numerous.

[veganray]

Originally Posted by PDGADirector

The benefits of assigning numbers to all participants in PDGA events are numerous.

Agreed. Definitely a double-plus-positive step.

[Jebb]

Originally Posted by PDGADirector

Jebb,
The easiest and most efficient way to determine if anyone is current or not is to pre-load your tournament player list into the PDGA's online scoring program and it will give you their status. Of course, we will still be providing TD's with a current members list from their region just as we always have.

I'm not arguing the benefits Brian, only the practicality as a TD.

When you have 40+ people standing in line onsite to register for a tourney you're running all by yourself there's already too much to keep up with. Not just every TD has a laptop with cellular broadband onsite either. Printing out the member list isn't very practical, as the one I was sent for Alabama would have been cumbersome to say the least at 84 8.5x11 pages of paper to immediately recycle. It's also really hard to talk people into filling out a form or having to explain exactly what PDGA-current means when you have so much other stuff going on while trying to get everyone registered in an hour or less. There has to be a simpler method.

In any regard, more should be done to explain to Supporting Members that they aren't PDGA-current. A pre-printed perforated notecard with an explanation on one half and the form to fill out on the other half which TDs can hand out to new players comes to mind.

[exczar]

A TD can always ask to see a membership card, which should indicate the status of a player.

And of course, you can always get help in running the event.

[PDGADirector]

Originally Posted by Jebb

In any regard, more should be done to explain to Supporting Members that they aren't PDGA-current. A pre-printed perforated notecard with an explanation on one half and the form to fill out on the other half which TDs can hand out to new players comes to mind.

You seem to be assuming that this is not explained when in actuality it is explained quite clearly to the supporting member when they enter their data during the online registration process.

The system has not changed at all on your end. TD's were dealing with non-current members with PDGA numbers before we implemented this new system. The uploading of your players list as I suggested can be done for pre-registrations so no laptop computer or data card is necessary on site. It's actually pretty simple. Active members are issued a PDGA member card and non-active (including supporting members) are not. If they don't show a current card, they are subject to the $10 non member fee (or) you can choose to check their name on the list of current members that we provide.

[unclemercy]

i'm still confused. i thought jebb had a legitimate concern.


regardless, "supporting member" is a obviously a great name.

[Jebb]

Originally Posted by PDGADirector

You seem to be assuming that this is not explained when in actuality it is explained quite clearly to the supporting member when they enter their data during the online registration process.

Is this only when you use PDGA's online pre-reg? (we never do, our club has its own storefront - we can look into adding this info there but it still doesn't cover day-of registrants)

Originally Posted by PDGADirector

The system has not changed at all on your end.

...other than asking every new player for their full name, email, postal address, dob, etc. If there were a small postage-paid card we could write the tourney name on and hand them (hint hint) which explains the process while they're physically standing there at the registration desk the morning of a tourney that would be ace. I certainly wouldn't mind collecting such and dropping them in my mailbox while sinking time into the TD report.

Originally Posted by PDGADirector

TD's were dealing with non-current members with PDGA numbers before we implemented this new system.

Yes, those who have paid dues and actually understand what 'current' actually means!! Hopefully you can understand how supporting members can often get confused into thinking they're new current members by being given a brand new PDGA number.

Originally Posted by PDGADirector

The uploading of your players list as I suggested can be done for pre-registrations so no laptop computer or data card is necessary on site.

As I stated above, this concept is pretty worthless when you're taking onsite registrations the morning of the tourney. We generally average only about 1/5 of total registrations early online while the other 80% show up morning-of.

Originally Posted by PDGADirector

you can choose to check their name on the list of current members that we provide.

again, I'm not about to waste 84 pages of paper for a one-time use!

Have you ran a tourney all by yourself lately? My point is there's too much to keep up with (yes, 2 or more TDs are ideal), but if we can streamline the process in any regard you might see more people volunteering to at least run more C-Tiers.

[PDGADirector]

Jebb,

We already have business cards prepared that will be included in TD packages for distribution to non-members which explains what they have to do to become a supporting member. The card gives the following URL, and that page very clearly states that new supporting members "are still required to pay the $10.00 non-member fee at all PDGA sanctioned events until becoming a full member."

http://www.pdga.com/supporting

Nothing has changed on your end. How do you currently handle non-active members? You will handle the new supporting members the same way. If you want simplicity, ask to see their current PDGA card at registration and if they do not have one, they are subject to the non-member fee. Same as it has always been.

[i2rt]

Originally Posted by PDGADirector

Jebb,

We already have business cards prepared that will be included in TD packages for distribution to non-members which explains what they have to do to become a supporting member. The card gives the following URL, and that page very clearly states that new supporting members "are still required to pay the $10.00 non-member fee at all PDGA sanctioned events until becoming a full member."

http://www.pdga.com/supporting

Nothing has changed on your end. How do you currently handle non-active members? You will handle the new supporting members the same way. If you want simplicity, ask to see their current PDGA card at registration and if they do not have one, they are subject to the non-member fee. Same as it has always been.

Really sad Brian, really sad.
Great to know our ED is so on top of the workload of running an event.
Let's see, you have played in roughly 27 PDGA tournaments in the last 9 years. How many tournaments have you been the TD for in that time? Like everything dealing with the public, TDing has become more complex and time consuming.
Try listening to the people out there doing all the work. Most likely they have ideas that you have never thought of since they are doing the work.

[rhett]

Originally Posted by PDGADirector

Nothing has changed on your end. How do you currently handle non-active members? You will handle the new supporting members the same way.

Not trying to pile on here, but I think the above quoted statement is false. "The old way" of handling non-current members was to take their $10 and move on. The new way requires gathering all of their info and submitting it, pretty much like processing a new membership or renewal which is a lot of work.

I guess you could say that TDs were supposed to be gathering all that info anyway and putting it in the back of the TD Report, but with no real benefit or consequence to the TD/tourney that step was pretty typically skipped. Just collect an extra $10 and move on, then write a check to the PDGA with the extra tens included.

[PDGADirector]

Originally Posted by i2rt

Really sad Brian, really sad.
Great to know our ED is so on top of the workload of running an event.
Let's see, you have played in roughly 27 PDGA tournaments in the last 9 years. How many tournaments have you been the TD for in that time? Like everything dealing with the public, TDing has become more complex and time consuming.
Try listening to the people out there doing all the work. Most likely they have ideas that you have never thought of since they are doing the work.

..... Thanks Bill!

You are correct in that I have not played in many events in recent years but that is only because I gave up playing in them to direct them. To answer your question, I have been the tournament director of roughly 40 PDGA sanctioned events over the past 18 years including the 1996 Amateur World Championships, the 2006 Pro World Championships, the United States Disc Golf Championships, the Deaf Disc Golf National Championships, the Georgia State Games Championship, the Augusta Classic SuperTour, and the Disc Golf Hall of Fame Classic NT event, for which I was named the 2003 PDGA tournament director of the year. I've not directed too many events in the past two years due to my job responsibilities but I will be directing the Tim Selinske U.S. Masters in 2010 at the International Disc Golf Center.

You seem to be totally missing the point Bill, which is that we purposely designed the new system to alleviate the TD of having to do any extra work. (see response below for further explanation) I am listening to the people out there doing the work. TD's are the lifeblood of our sport and I can very easily relate to them and the challenges they face. It is also my responsibility to explain to them when they do not understand a new process, which is why I replied to Jebb's posts with an explantion of how the new process would work along with a tip on how to make his job easier. Just curious, why do you find this so sad?

Originally Posted by rhett

Not trying to pile on here, but I think the above quoted statement is false. "The old way" of handling non-current members was to take their $10 and move on. The new way requires gathering all of their info and submitting it, pretty much like processing a new membership or renewal which is a lot of work.

I guess you could say that TDs were supposed to be gathering all that info anyway and putting it in the back of the TD Report, but with no real benefit or consequence to the TD/tourney that step was pretty typically skipped. Just collect an extra $10 and move on, then write a check to the PDGA with the extra tens included.

Rhett, you are incorrect in your understanding of the new process. The new process will actually require less work from the TD's than the old one, which as you correctly stated above required that TD's collect the non-current members contact information and send it to the office. The new process has the TD collect the fee and simply hand the non-current member a pre-printed business card (included in the TD package), which explains to that player how they can register online for their supporting membership. This alleviates some of the TD's work on tournament day and we hope it will result in the office getting a much improved return rate on non-member contact information because the non-member will have an incentive to register as a supporting member. Collect the non-member fee, hand them a card, and they move on!

Bottom line is that as a long time tournament director, I have always felt that we ask too much of our volunteer tournament directors so the office is reviewing the reporting process and implementing changes to lessen the workload. We are currently working on a simplified version of the TD report for the 2010 season, which will require only the most necessary reporting information, sort of a 1040-EZ version for tournament reporting. We will also continue to evaluate the tournament reporting process to streamline it and make it more efficient and less of a burden for the TD's.

[PDGADirector]

Double post removed.

[rhett]

Originally Posted by PDGADirector

The new process has the TD collect the fee and simply hand the non-current member a pre-printed business card (included in the TD package), which explains to that player how they can register online for their supporting membership....Collect the non-member fee, hand them a card, and they move on!

Well then, that sounds like a pretty good process improvement. No more feeling guilty for not collecting the non-member's additional info.

[Jebb]

Brian, ran a tourney on Sep 19th (only a couple weekends ago). Did not have any such cards or info in the TD package. Should I look forward to seeing such next time around?

[PDGADirector]

Originally Posted by Jebb

Brian, ran a tourney on Sep 19th (only a couple weekends ago). Did not have any such cards or info in the TD package. Should I look forward to seeing such next time around?

Jebb,

This is a brand new process, which was presented to the Board of Directors at the summit two weeks ago and is just now being finalized and launched. The pre-printed cards will be included in all future TD packages and will also be available for download on the website for those TD's who opt out of receiving a delivered package. Thanks for running another sanctioned event!

[exczar]

Brian,

If I may interject, from reading this thread it appears that we have not an insignificant number of yahoos who have become supporting members this year, and for whatever reason, feel like they can use their newly gained PDGA number to sign up for future tournaments without paying the extra $10 for the event. (See posts #5 and #8 above).

If I have read the thread correctly, the headache to the TD is because of them, because we have an extra category of player.

Previous categories:

Non-PDGA member (no #): They know it, they fill out their entry form as such and pay the extra $

Current PDGA member: They know it, and they fill out their entry form as such and do not pay the extra $

Non-Current PDGA member: They know it, and they fill out their entry form as such, paying the extra $. Some may be sneaky and try not to pay the extra $.

Now we have an extra category:

Supporting member (it doesn't matter for this example when they became a member): Some know what this means, and some don't. The ones that know what it means add the extra $ to their entry; some of the ones that do not know what it means add the extra $ and some don't.

The two headaches for a TD from the above seem to be coming from the non-current and Supporting members who sign up the day of the event without paying the extra $. From what I have read, it appears that the non-current members are paying up, but some of the Supporting members are not, probably because of some confusion on their part as to what a Supporting membership means.

I have no doubt that what was given the "Supporting player to be" at their first event this year was clear, as is whatever verbage they read when they go online to register for their Supporting Membership. The problem seems to be that, for some of our less erudite newly minted Supporting members, they are believing that they are full members.

I don't know what they are given or what they read when they register, but perhaps we can make it more clear during the online process that they will continue to pay the non-member fee at events until they become full-fledged members, because when you have these confused Supporting members fill out entry forms, and make event payment, as if they were current members, it changes the complexion of the event registration for the TD (oops, wrong thread )

[PDGADirector]

Bill,

I don't believe this to be a big problem as of yet because the new process just began and we have not sent many supporting member packages out yet. What you wrote could very well become a reality once we get lots of supporting members in the system but our current tournament procedures already handle this potential challenge.

The primary procedure for determining a players membership status has and always will be the membership card. Active members are issued a current PDGA card which they are supposed to show to the TD at registration or check-in. Non-current members and the new supporting members do not have a card. If you do not have a card, you are subject to the non-member fee.

Additionally the following back-up procedures are also currently in place to assist TD's (and forgetful members) with determining a players membership status if the player does not have their card with them and claims to be current:

The PDGA e-mails all TD's prior to their event a current member list for the players in their region. Admittedly, this is harder to accomplish at on site registrations, but it was designed only to be a back up in case a player forgot his/her card. I will typically take a players word for it if they claim to be current but i will check their status once the round begins, or overnight if it is a two day event. If I find them to be non-current, I inform them before the next round begins by writing a note on their scorport card or scorecard.

If a TD uploads his/her player list to the online scoring program at PDGA.com, it automatically flags non-current members.

A TD can also enter a players name or membership number into the members section of PDGA.com and it will tell you if they are current or not.

We will continue to evaluate how the system works throughout the year and make necessary adjustments if they are required.

[krupicka]

It would be sweet if the PDGA provided hooks in the TD report such that the member list could be dropped into the report and used offline to check membership status.

[Jebb]

The main problem with asking people to show their PDGA card is that many people don't want to openly hand over their PDGA password to anyone. Until you take the PDGA password off the front of the card, many people will continue to think of the card as a matter of something which can breach personal privacy. The other problem is that many simply don't carry it.

We have never asked for cards because it just isn't practical, however the pre-printed info for new supporting members is much appreciated.

Bottom line, we don't want to eat $10 per person who mistakenly thinks they are PDGA current.

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by PDGADirector

http://www.pdga.com/supporting

What's up with the Supporting website?

It now says: "Access denied" and all the info on how to obtain those membership benefits are gone.

[steveganz]

Originally Posted by ERicJ

What's up with the Supporting website?

It now says: "Access denied" and all the info on how to obtain those membership benefits are gone.

We recently suspended the Supporting Membership program (see the BOD Minutes from January) but the The $10 discount on a new membership for competitors who paid a $10 non-member fee in a tournament in the same calendar year will remain in effect.

We're currently performing an in-depth organizational analysis in an effort to develop a long-term strategic plan for moving the sport forward. One of the recommendations we expect to come out of this process is a plan to offer a new and improved supporting level membership. We want to create something that provides real value for all disc golfers, not just those that compete in PDGA sanctioned events.

[Jeff_LaG]

Food for thought...

[steveganz]

Originally Posted by Jeff_LaG

Food for thought...

While Jack didn't have his facts straight, he makes some good points. This is just one of the many reasons we wanted to take some time to create a program for supporting members that provides real value to the non-competitive disc golfer.

[wsfaplau]

Some good points but the 500,000 members in the next 2 yers just isn't going to happen, even if the membership were free

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by steveganz

The $10 discount on a new membership for competitors who paid a $10 non-member fee in a tournament in the same calendar year will remain in effect.

How do non-members collect that $10 discount?