Ask Chuck Kennedy

[WhiteyBear]

Curious, How Many Pdga Leagues Were There Last Year Compared To The Prior year?

[cgkdisc]

There weren't any leagues in 2011, just 2012 starting in March. I think the final number might come close to 175.

[WhiteyBear]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

There weren't an leagues in 2011, just 2012 starting in March. I think the final number might come close to 175.

Precisely, Leagues WeRe $10 A Week Per Player Back Then. McCoy Initiated The New Structure. Value Is TheDemand. Forgive The Caps, Phone Is Weird That Way.

[cgkdisc]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

[WhiteyBear]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

Very simple; prior to Kevin making the radical change of PDGA league fees, SOMEONE thought it was a good idea to charge each individual $10 a round, per week, to do the same task. According to your reply, 0 leagues and 0 people outside the PDGA thought that was a good idea.

Lower the price to $1, give half of that to the local club....boom, 175+ new PDGA leagues formed (three in my little city alone last year). Why? People saw the value, amongst other things.

Parallel that to today's AM structure. You want to build the AM base right? Organize the AM divisions in such a way that their value exceeds their expectations. That's where my softball analogy comes into play; you pay $100+ for a softball league, and compete for a trophy, and you will always have fun because of the competition, the atmosphere, and all of that is only done for bragging rights and a trophy [unless you are a "pro"].

Move that mentality of to disc golf. Standardize the AM fees. Make it $30 (just putting a number out there), $5 of that goes directly into your local club (like the leagues do). They get a "$40" players pack, and everyone gets the same value. The winner, or top 3, get a trophy. Heck you could even throw in a paid entry into another sanctioned tournament for the winner. I would be really surprised if AMs left in droves, or at all. AMs want VALUE when they go to big events; why do you think the mentality of a lot of these players are "I want to go play here because the players pack is HUGE"? You can still give them that, and more, with just a little restructuring. The left over funds can be used for PDGA payments, or whatever.

Secondly, why not follow the golf's initiative and give players more value for the PDGA membership? In Virginia, there is a club called the VSGA; I'll let you look at that if you want, it's a fantastic service/product. The long story short is this, why not team up with vendors that want to support the PDGA and see if some of them will give additional discounts for active PDGA members? I'm not saying to have collusion, or be a business partner, more like be AAA and reap the benefits. Doesn't have to be a disc golf company at all, places like Papa Johns or Jiffy Lube.

Increased value = better reception = happier AM base = growth. Whether this methodology is correct is purely speculation, I'll be the first to admit that. But I have a hard time accepting that nothing has to change to get things to improve. The PDGA leagues is a fine example: 0 one year, to 175+ the next year. THAT'S growth.

[cgkdisc]

Remember that the PDGA does not employ TDs. TDs do what they do because it works for them. PDGA policies have been shaped by popular practices, not necessarily because it was the "right" thing to do whatever some may feel. The PDGA tournament structure provides a lot of flexibility for TDs and your suggestion would be covered. But it's up to the TDs to try it and see if it works for them.

Send your suggestions for acquiring vendor discounts to Sara Nicholson snicholson@pdga.com She's involved in looking for those arrangements.

Very simple; prior to Kevin making the radical change of PDGA league fees, SOMEONE thought it was a good idea to charge each individual $10 a round, per week, to do the same task. According to your reply, 0 leagues and 0 people outside the PDGA thought that was a good idea.

Lower the price to $1, give half of that to the local club....boom, 175+ new PDGA leagues formed (three in my little city alone last year). Why? People saw the value, amongst other things.

There wasn't a change in league fees. They started with $1 and the 50/50 split. There was no league program of any kind before 2012. So I'm not sure what you mean by the $10 a round per week number?

[WhiteyBear]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

Remember that the PDGA does not employ TDs. TDs do what they do because it works for them. PDGA policies have been shaped by popular practices, not necessarily because it was the "right" thing to do whatever some may feel. The PDGA tournament structure provides a lot of flexibility for TDs and your suggestion would be covered. But it's up to the TDs to try it and see if it works for them.

Send your suggestions for acquiring vendor discounts to Sara Nicholson snicholson@pdga.com She's involved in looking for those arrangements.




There wasn't a change in league fees. They started with $1 and the 50/50 split. There was no league program of any kind before 2012. So I'm not sure what you mean by the $10 a round per week number?

That's very intriguing that you say that...is the PDGA not associated with the DGA? They were the one's that provided that service; the enormous fees were the reason I skipped over them in 2011 for our league.

[jconnell]

Originally Posted by WhiteyBear

That's very intriguing that you say that...is the PDGA not associated with the DGA? They were the one's that provided that service; the enormous fees were the reason I skipped over them in 2011 for our league.

I assume you mean DGU, and no, they have absolutely no affiliation with the PDGA.

[WhiteyBear]

Originally Posted by jconnell

I assume you mean DGU, and no, they have absolutely no affiliation with the PDGA.

Ah, there it is. Yes, that is what I meant.

Apologies for my confusion. I stand corrected.

[cgkdisc]

Last I heard, it was only $10/year for DGU membership. I'm surprised they would charge a $10 fee per round per player but could see $10 per week as a league fee.

[drumin5216]

Question about ratings:

I thought that your player rating was calculated only using rounds from the past 12 months. Why do I still have 4 rated rounds from 2011 in my Ratings Detail? It's not from lack of rounds; I have 62 rounds in my rating.

Thanks,
Clifford Smith
PDGA # 40512

[jconnell]

Originally Posted by drumin5216

Question about ratings:

I thought that your player rating was calculated only using rounds from the past 12 months. Why do I still have 4 rated rounds from 2011 in my Ratings Detail? It's not from lack of rounds; I have 62 rounds in my rating.

Thanks,
Clifford Smith
PDGA # 40512

Ratings go back 12 months from your most recently rated tournament. For you, that's the UAB ASCE Inaugural Disc Golf Tournament on October 20, 2012. That means everything from October 20, 2011 through October 20, 2012 is counted.

[drumin5216]

That makes sense. My most recent rated is actually in November, but the list is out of order (not sure why that is). I also played a tournament at the beginning of December, but it didn't show up in this ratings update because the td didn't send it in time (lame).

[cgkdisc]

You can click on the header at the top of each column in your Ratings Detail and sort by that column.

[krupicka]

Is there a schedule for the 2013 ratings updates (and deadlines for TDs) published yet?

[cgkdisc]

Yes. It's always updated in the When Are Ratings Updated FAQ. Deadlines are typically 2 weeks in advance of the publication date.

[NASCARVW]

I participated in a tournament, The Melbourne Open 23-Feb to 24-Feb-2013.
For some reason my PDGA # is not linked to my name, I have contacted the TD to no avail.
How can I get this changed?
Paul Sheppard PDGA# 51462

[krupicka]

Contact the PDGA office.

[cgkdisc]

Originally Posted by NASCARVW

I participated in a tournament, The Melbourne Open 23-Feb to 24-Feb-2013.
For some reason my PDGA # is not linked to my name, I have contacted the TD to no avail.
How can I get this changed?
Paul Sheppard PDGA# 51462

The PDGA likely doesn't even have the event report from the TD yet since the scores online show as "unofficial." So the PDGA may not have anything to add your number to yet. The TD can still add your number or you may have to wait until the PDGA gets the report and let them know to add your number.

[gripitandripit]

Chuck - last week I participated in the Motherlode Open and the results went straight from not there to official with no ratings. Will we not get ratings until the next update? Thanks.

[cgkdisc]

It just means your official ratings are being processed in the update to be posted by April 23rd.

[daomac1000]

Hello Chuck,

I played the Big Island Open 2013 in January and the results just showed up a day or so ago and there aren't any round ratings listed. Do you have any feedback for this?

[jconnell]

Originally Posted by daomac1000

Hello Chuck,

I played the Big Island Open 2013 in January and the results just showed up a day or so ago and there aren't any round ratings listed. Do you have any feedback for this?

Not Chuck, obviously, but I'd guess that the results were only recently submitted, and that the ratings will show up on April 23 at the next ratings update.

[cgkdisc]

The Big Island report was received at PDGA HQ before the April 9th deadline to be included in this upcoming ratings update to be posted by April 23rd.

[JenniferB]

Hi, Chuck. I'm curious how high winds, for example, affect SSA. I'm sure it's hard to know for sure, but if you have analyzed SSA variations, then, taking the lower end as representative of more ideal conditions, maybe you have an idea regarding how many points the SSA can rise as a result of more adverse conditions. I'm curious, for example, about the observed high end for a lower end 50 SSA course vs that for a lower end 68 SSA course. Maybe it would be possible to estimate a number of additional throws one should expect from difficult conditions on a typical course (50 SSA at 10 points per throw) vs a championship course (68 SSA at 6 points per throw)?

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by JenniferB

Hi, Chuck. I'm curious how high winds, for example, affect SSA. I'm sure it's hard to know for sure, but if you have analyzed SSA variations, then, taking the lower end as representative of more ideal conditions, maybe you have an idea regarding how many points the SSA can rise as a result of more adverse conditions. I'm curious, for example, about the observed high end for a lower end 50 SSA course vs that for a lower end 68 SSA course. Maybe it would be possible to estimate a number of additional throws one should expect from difficult conditions on a typical course (50 SSA at 10 points per throw) vs a championship course (68 SSA at 6 points per throw)?

That seems like a question where the answer needs to be qualified by the field. If you have a field of 990+ rated players I'd expect a small effect from wind, as those experienced & talented players know how to handle it. However if you had a field of 800-850 rated players I would guess that high winds have a significant effect on the resulting scores and thus SSA.

[cgkdisc]

We don't have the capability to analyze wind impact in detail, just overall impact on SSA. While Eric indicates the impact might be less for higher rated players, we have no indication it's proportionally any different than any other impacts on SSA (length, OB, etc.) We've seen heavy wind increase SSA up to 6 throws. But wind direction at the same speed might have different impacts depending on direction.

For example, a 10mph wind from the south might actually produce a lower SSA than no wind at all because wind from the south happened to help on more of the holes than it hindered due to which holes were in the open versus more protected in the woods. As a side note, that's a good reason to keep wind direction in mind for course design and try to balance your hole directions so the course ideally doesn't necessarily play tougher based on wind direction. I've also seen courses where they deliberately lined up their tougher holes to face the prevailing winds from the west which also meant playing into the sun in the late afternoon.

[JenniferB]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

We've seen heavy wind increase SSA up to 6 throws.

Is that on an average course or a championship course?

[cgkdisc]

Doesn't seem to matter. It's more about how many of the holes are in the open and sometimes the direction of the wind. Again, this hasn't been analyzed in detail at this point. It's mostly anecdotal. We do have some data but haven't analyzed it in detail yet since normally that info isn't reported unless requested.

[John Resch]

Is there any recourse if players rated above 935 register for a tournament in the Intermediate division, and are allowed to play in said division?

What should be done to avoid this scenario?

Thanks in advance!