Are players packs required for Ams in a B-tier?

[Godfather]

Its that easy. Are TD's required to give all Ams a players pack in a B-Tier event.

[cgkdisc]

Yes, at least $10 retail value per the table on page 3 of the Tour Standards:
http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/...andards_v3.pdf

However, you can be somewhat creative and provide it as free lunch and/or free greens fees (versus pros paying $5 let's say) instead of strictly providing DG merch.

[Godfather]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

Yes, at least $10 retail value per the table on page 3 of the Tour Standards:
http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/...andards_v3.pdf

However, you can be somewhat creative and provide it as free lunch and/or free greens fees (versus pros paying $5 let's say) instead of strictly providing DG merch.

Can a TD be creative in only giving players packs to the first "how ever many" that register and give the others NOTHING?

[cgkdisc]

Not the way the standards read. You could limit getting a certain type of player pack to the first X number of entrants like a 50 unit custom disc run. But every Am after the first 50 would still need to get the minimum $10 value even though it's other discs or merch. Remember player packs aren't freebies because the value is included as part of the Am payout. So it shouldn't impact the TD financially.

[jconnell]

Originally Posted by Godfather

Can a TD be creative in only giving players packs to the first "how ever many" that register and give the others NOTHING?

I'd say no. How hard is it to come up with $10 worth of player pack for every player? Even if it is a custom stamped disc and you only want to order so many, order enough to cover the maximum possible number of amateurs and if there's any left over, throw them into the prizes. Or conversely, if you can only get a limited number of custom discs or whatever, have a back up plan for if you run out of them and still have players signing up.

The rationale behind requiring a minimum value for a player pack is that everyone leaves the tournament with something. It defeats the purpose if only the first X to sign up get it and the rest are paying the same price and getting nothing.

[Godfather]

Thanks Chuck!

[davidsauls]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

However, you can be somewhat creative and provide it as free lunch and/or free greens fees (versus pros paying $5 let's say) instead of strictly providing DG merch.

Boooo!!!!!!

Free Lunch is pushing it, but free greens fee is circumventing the guidelines. It might hold up in PDGA court, but it won't win favors with the paying customers.

[cgkdisc]

Greens fees are legit but using them as part of a player pack likely isn't as smart financially as other options because there's likely no retail/wholesale differential in doing that (unless, of course, the TD owns the course...)

[davidsauls]

That is what I meant. I'm fine with greens fees. But if a TD sanctions as a B-Tier, with the expectation of a $10 players pack, and rebates the greens fee back as it.....well, why not just call it a C-Tier and avoid the charade?

[discette]

Originally Posted by davidsauls

...

Free Lunch is pushing it...

A free lunch, dinner or meal at a player party is a legitimate player pack item. It costs money to provide meals and it is an extra that many players appreciate. Sure, some players will never eat the free meal or attend the party, but that doesn't make the item worthless.

A disc provided in a player pack still has a value, even if you don't like it or want to throw it...just like the lunch that was provided, even if you choose not to eat it.

[davidsauls]

I just said it's "pushing it", not that it's wrong. I was contrasting it to "free greens fees".

What I meant was that a players pack has a connotation of something of value you take home with you after the tournament. I'd probably deduct free lunches from the payout as an expense but, if I made it the players pack, I'd be very clear in advance so that those who did not partake, would know they weren't getting anything else.

(Frankly, I don't care for players packs at all, and would much prefer lower entry fees instead.)

[jconnell]

We had this discussion locally a few weeks back about lunch as an included expense/deduction from the entry fee (not necessarily counting it as the sole player pack item, just as part of the "value" returned for entry). Consensus seemed to be that it was not a popular thing for most players...they'd prefer not to be forced to pay for a lunch as part of the tournament. The most compelling reason is that some players have dietary concerns/restrictions (vegan/vegetarian, lactose-intolerance, gluten-intolerance, etc) that aren't always addressed when the TD just orders a bunch of pizzas or provides the same boxed lunch to everyone. They may want to eat the provided food but can't based on the choices offered. As a lactose-intolerant person myself, I've been burned by "lunch will be provided" turning out to be pizza enough to bring my own regardless of what is advertised.

You can argue that the meal still has value whether the player eats it or not, and it's true, but at least with a disc or tee-shirt as the player pack, even if the player doesn't want to use it or wear it, he/she can pass it on to someone else (or even sell it) to realize its value. You generally don't or can't pass on or re-sell a lunch two weeks later. Additionally, if the player doesn't or can't eat the provided lunch, they still have to eat something (bringing it from home or going out during the break), so they're effectively paying for two meals when they only need/want one.

Common practice around here is to have a lunch vendor on hand at registration with whom players can place an order that is delivered to them at the course during the lunch break. Players buy it if they want it and can get something that they know they're going to enjoy (or at least, they know they can eat...quality varies). It takes one thing off the TD/staff's plates during the day as well. All they have to do is arrange for the vendor to have someone there to take the orders, and the vendor does the rest. Local sandwich shops fall over themselves to be "chosen" to do it at some courses, and usually kick something back to the tournament...either a sponsorship or discounting their menu for the day. It's just good business for them. And it seems like a best of both worlds scenario...players that want it get lunch on-site but they also get to control what's on their plate as well. They get their money's worth, at the very least.

[krupicka]

Lunch probably should not be allowed as a player pack for some of the above reasons mentioned. In addition if my lunch is valued at $10, it better be a pretty good lunch.

[davidsauls]

Vendors on hand at registration is a common practice around here, too.

At Stoney Hill we have an additional issue---the course is so remote that either we provide food, or tell people to pack their lunch. There's no running to McDonalds during the lunch break. We've made the meal ourself (for extra charge), provided it free (at a fundraiser), and had a vendor (much easier on the TD). This time we might just tell everyone to bring their lunch. But we've never considered making it part of the players pack.

I'm with JConnell in that I've bought my own lunch, even when the event provided it, not for medical reasons but just because I don't like what they served.

At any rate, I wouldn't say including the meal as part of the players pack isn't allowed....but I don't think it's a terribly good idea. If you must, please publicize the fact in advance.

[Patrick P]

Originally Posted by jconnell

We had this discussion locally a few weeks back about lunch as an included expense/deduction from the entry fee (not necessarily counting it as the sole player pack item, just as part of the "value" returned for entry). Consensus seemed to be that it was not a popular thing for most players...they'd prefer not to be forced to pay for a lunch as part of the tournament. The most compelling reason is that some players have dietary concerns/restrictions (vegan/vegetarian, lactose-intolerance, gluten-intolerance, etc) that aren't always addressed when the TD just orders a bunch of pizzas or provides the same boxed lunch to everyone. They may want to eat the provided food but can't based on the choices offered. As a lactose-intolerant person myself, I've been burned by "lunch will be provided" turning out to be pizza enough to bring my own regardless of what is advertised.

You can argue that the meal still has value whether the player eats it or not, and it's true, but at least with a disc or tee-shirt as the player pack, even if the player doesn't want to use it or wear it, he/she can pass it on to someone else (or even sell it) to realize its value. You generally don't or can't pass on or re-sell a lunch two weeks later. Additionally, if the player doesn't or can't eat the provided lunch, they still have to eat something (bringing it from home or going out during the break), so they're effectively paying for two meals when they only need/want one.

Common practice around here is to have a lunch vendor on hand at registration with whom players can place an order that is delivered to them at the course during the lunch break. Players buy it if they want it and can get something that they know they're going to enjoy (or at least, they know they can eat...quality varies). It takes one thing off the TD/staff's plates during the day as well. All they have to do is arrange for the vendor to have someone there to take the orders, and the vendor does the rest. Local sandwich shops fall over themselves to be "chosen" to do it at some courses, and usually kick something back to the tournament...either a sponsorship or discounting their menu for the day. It's just good business for them. And it seems like a best of both worlds scenario...players that want it get lunch on-site but they also get to control what's on their plate as well. They get their money's worth, at the very least.

* * * * * - I rate this post 5/5 Stars! Well put and great insight. I wish more TDs would share this type of knowledge. I think giving players the option to buy lunch from a vendor would save a lot of headache for the TD. Fortunately I don't have any of the food issues, but there have been times where I was dissatisified with the provided lunch (pizza, cold cuts, really?). On the other hand, some of my favorite lunch meals ever have been at events. I think if you are putting in the effort to provide a meal, make sure it's darn good, something original and tasty and then give players the option at sign up and/or during the event to pay extra for the meal. Some meals have been so good, I've purchased double meals if they have any leftover.

[davidsauls]

I'll footnote that food on site, even from a vendor, is a great amenity for a tournament to offer. Much pleasure in coming off the course, picking up a meal, and just hanging around the course; as opposed to jumping in the car and hustling to a commercial establishment, standing in line with the unexpected rush of disc golfers, and then hurrying back for the 2nd round.