Ask Chuck Kennedy

[drumin5216]

Why is there a delay with getting the league round ratings? We had a decent number of local players that joined the PDGA because of the league sanctioning. For some of the players, the league rounds are their only rated rounds (or the majority of their rated rounds); thus, they don't have player ratings, or they would already be propagators with league rounds included which affects unofficial ratings in the current league and possibly which division they are eligible to play in.

[cgkdisc]

The data format for importing information into the PDGA database and processing ratings is a whole new animal compared with regular events. The IT guys are developing new coding to automate that process so each league doesn't have to be processed manually which is how it would have to have been done for the recent update. We also wanted to isolate league processing the first time to resolve any problems that might be seen in the procedure or calculations.

[krupicka]

Chuck This completed event does not show any prize money for the Masters division. Any idea why it doesn't?

http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/88580/Open

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

The league reports can't (yet) be processed as part of the regular event ratings process. So, all completed leagues will be processed separately in the next few weeks as noted above.

Kinda disappointing that rounds from almost four months ago aren't included in this update. The advertised thought process behind a maximum of 10-week sessions was to prevent a large lag between when rounds were played vs. when they were included in a player's rating. Hopefully, this is just growing pains that come with the first implementation of league ratings.

[drumin5216]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

The data format for importing information into the PDGA database and processing ratings is a whole new animal compared with regular events. The IT guys are developing new coding to automate that process so each league doesn't have to be processed manually which is how it would have to have been done for the recent update. We also wanted to isolate league processing the first time to resolve any problems that might be seen in the procedure or calculations.

Thanks for the explanation; that's understandable. Hopefully, the process won't take too long.

[cgkdisc]

The devil is always in the details. Sanctioned leagues sounded like a no-brainer, great concept to get players more options to get rated rounds. But as we've seen, it brings up a variety of new issues not handled by the weekend event process. I know Steve Ganz wants to automate the processes when the time was right. But we all wanted to see if there were any tweaks or enhancements that were wanted/needed in the league program before it was worth it to automate those elements like we've done with weekend events over the past 12 years.

[wsfaplau]

Originally Posted by jconnell

Before everyone gets into a full-blown panic, remember that last update it took ALLLLL day for the update to finish. It appears the same thing is happening again. The update is probably in process, but it is not done yet. So if you're not seeing everything you think you should see, give it some time before you think the event(s) in question were left out.

As for the leagues, that's explained in the announcement already. Leagues will be added with a special update "within the next few weeks".

The front page of the website has announced the update as complete

[ERicJ]

What's an "S" tier and how many points is it worth? I don't see anything in the 2012 Tour Standards Doc about an S-Tier.

[cgkdisc]

Haven't heard. Contact Ganz or Sweeton.

[oldman wallis]

Special event it sounds like to me.

[ERicJ]

Andrew has updated Am & Junior doubles events to C-Tier.

[keithjohnson]

Originally Posted by ERicJ

Andrew has updated Am & Junior doubles events to C-Tier.

Will PRO also be changed from S to a C-Tier?

[NateB]

is the trophy for "2011 PDGA Points Leader" the same as winner?

[cgkdisc]

I presume so. Not sure it could be anything else.

[NateB]

So I guess points earned by a woman playing a men's division don't count toward the points total for the award. One girl had 1300+ points but only played one women's amateur event (all the rest in a men's amateur division) and another had 600+ all in a women's amateur division and the one with 600+ won the trophy. Is my assumption about which division the points are earned in a factor in determining the winner correct?

[NateB]

If that is the case I'm not sure why the points multiplier factor is different for comparable men's and women's divisions.

[cgkdisc]

Contact PDGA office for answers. Not sure how they do the Men/Women crossover points totals.

[krupicka]

I'm going to assume the 1300 pt Am Woman would be Kelsey. That would stink if they didn't give it to her.

[bruce_brakel]

Originally Posted by krupicka

I'm going to assume the 1300 pt Am Woman would be Kelsey. That would stink if they didn't give it to her.

Kelsey is sitting next to me here at a McDonalds somewhere in Charlotte. She has so many obelisks, she does not mind if they change the rules and give it to someone else. In fact, she thinks it would be the fair thing. In the recent past, you have had to play in the division once to win the obelisk, but pro pooints and am points have been the only two kinds of points they consider.

[JenniferB]

If it rains and players quit, is that a DNF, or do they take a 7 on every hole they didn't finish? TD insists the PDGA changed the rule so no voluntary DNFs are not allowed, and he's giving 7s.

[jconnell]

Originally Posted by JenniferB

If it rains and players quit, is that a DNF, or do they take a 7 on every hole they didn't finish? TD insists the PDGA changed the rule so no voluntary DNFs are not allowed, and he's giving 7s.

Quits during a round? DNF. There is no way to take "7" on holes after a round has started. The par+4 penalty only applies for holes missed at the start of a round.

Quits between rounds? In theory, they can take par+4 for each hole they miss starting with the first one of the round, and return late in the round or in the next round.

The PDGA has changed nothing about this rule in years, and I would think if they did, it would have been widely announced and the internet would be abuzz with the news. This isn't 1995 anymore.

[JenniferB]

My whole card of two complete women's divisions quit because we all thought it was unsafe to continue, but the TD saw no problem in trying to throw from dirt tees in knee deep flowing water (flash flood warning) with the ground lighting up around us from lightning overhead. My understanding is that he called it for a while, and we were too far from HQ to hear the horn, and decided to go in. On the way in, we heard a double horn blast as we got close to HQ, which it seems was his signal to restart. So when we got there, he was telling everyone to go back out and finish or take 7s on every hole they didn't finish. Everyone in my division and in the other women's division decided not to finish, and just take the 7s. I think maybe if the other division had known a DNF was on the line, they would have finished, because the second round took one of them up into a tie for first. The awards have been completed based on that and everyone was happy, I think. Those low round ratings from taking all those 7s will probably be low enough to be dropped for most of us. So if I ask the Tour Manager to look into it, it could really upset some stuff, but I'd like for this TD to understand the rules properly. Could he simply put in the actual scores for the second round for the ladies as on a different layout, or does he really have to DNF everyone? And what happens to payout when everyone DNFs?

[Patrick P]

Originally Posted by JenniferB

If it rains and players quit, is that a DNF, or do they take a 7 on every hole they didn't finish? TD insists the PDGA changed the rule so no voluntary DNFs are not allowed, and he's giving 7s.

Originally Posted by JenniferB

My whole card of two complete women's divisions quit because we all thought it was unsafe to continue, but the TD saw no problem in trying to throw from dirt tees in knee deep flowing water (flash flood warning) with the ground lighting up around us from lightning overhead. My understanding is that he called it for a while, and we were too far from HQ to hear the horn, and decided to go in. On the way in, we heard a double horn blast as we got close to HQ, which it seems was his signal to restart. So when we got there, he was telling everyone to go back out and finish or take 7s on every hole they didn't finish. Everyone in my division and in the other women's division decided not to finish, and just take the 7s.

Your original post sounds like a completely different scenario than your second post. If a player quits in the middle of a round, that's a DNF. If play was suspended and then resumed and the player fails to continue play, then what action should be taken? DNF or 7s? It's not 100% clearly defined. I would say it is reasonable that the initial start of play and the resumption of suspended play would fall under the same rules per 1.5 of the Competition manual. If a player decides to not show up after play has resumed, then they should be given 7s. In this case, it seems to me the TD made the right call.

[Mashnut]

I'm not sure I agree with that interpretation Patrick, choosing not to finish a round that is already in progress sounds like a pretty clear cut DNF to me.

[Patrick P]

Originally Posted by Mashnut

I'm not sure I agree with that interpretation Patrick, choosing not to finish a round that is already in progress sounds like a pretty clear cut DNF to me.

I think I have changed my mind and would agree that it would be a DNF. Reading 1.5 over again, it seems that the assignment of par+4 should only be assessed at the start of a round. Since this situation occurred in the middle of the round a player not showing up could result in a DNF.

I'm looking at the situation like this. Players are called in to TD central to suspend play. At a designated time, the TD announces play will resume at xx:xx time giving players enough time to arrive back at their holes or previous lies. TD signals to resume play. Any player that doesn't arrive on time is given 30 seconds to throw. No show mark a par+4 until player returns. I'm wondering about a late player that arrives a hole later, what to do? Is the player automatically DNF if he/she misses the continuance of the current hole, but plays on for the remaining x # of holes?

[bruce_brakel]

At Worlds from time to time the PDGA has allowed a player to take 7s for missed holes. I recall at 2004 Worlds a small junior dropped out during an early round for several holes but was allowed to continue playing the next day. But that is not the rule.

TDs can do almost anything they want so long as they send in a TD report and their player fees.

[davidsauls]

Chuck, there seems to be a flaw in the unofficial round ratings for MM1. At least, mine. It looks like perhaps after the shuffle players' new pool assignments were retroactively assigned to the earlier rounds.

I started in P pool and shuffled to Q. Wednesday I played Winget first, then Elon. But it looks like my ratings assume I played Elon first then Winget.

A known flaw?

Not important at the moment, but just want to make sure you guys are aware of it.

[TeeBob]

So what is the deal with pool B open players round rating being 30 points lower than pool a open players? P

Pool b Zach Melton 48 rated 1058, pool a Dave Feldberg 49 rated 1079. Max Nichols pool b 49 rated 1049. This was in round 5. I know they are not official results.

Are they playing a different course on different days or what?

Seems to me pool should not make a difference. Kinda lame and seems like the ratings are padded to make the popular guys look better.

[cgkdisc]

Only some unofficial round ratings can be trusted at Worlds and only the scorekeepers know which ones. With multiple and shifting pools, they just don't always keep up with course assignments for unofficial ratings.

[obiwanKaneobi]

Hello Chuck
I just wanted to make sure you are aware that the ratings for the pro masters At worlds before the shuffle are still incorrect?