Ask Chuck Kennedy

[cgkdisc]

Well, NC players are always touting how fast players develop there...

[mfcastillo17]

http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/79706

Hi Chuck. For the above event, the only people who played the long tees were MPO, MPM, and MA1. All other divisions played the middle tees. The event was played on three different courses. All divisions played the same course at the same time but from different tees as listed earlier. As you can see, identical scores shot by players in other divisions are rated the same. I contacted the TD to tell him he needed to change the layout codes in the TD report but he refused and said the PDGA would do it. What can be done to rectify the situation? Thanks!

[cgkdisc]

TDs are not required to upload scores and correct course layouts for unofficial results. What your TD apparently is saying (hopefully) is that the TD report he submits to the PDGA will have the correct course assignments so the official ratings can be done properly. But he's not going to mess with the online system to correct the layouts for the unofficial results. There's nothing you can really do to get unofficial results corrected.

[mfcastillo17]

Thanks as always for your help and insight chuck!

[cgkdisc]

No problem. Ideally, it would be nice if all TDs attempted to do the course layouts properly when they upload scores. Hopefully, the process will be simplified when the scoring upload process is revamped in the next year and more TDs will be willing and able to do it.

[JenniferB]

When calculating round ratings, are all scores of all propagators weighted the same, or is score from a propagator having 80 rated rounds over the past year weighted more heavily than that of a player having 8 rated rounds over the past year?

[cgkdisc]

All propagators are weighted equally. We did a study to see if just using "better" propagators with more consistent ratings might reduce the swings in ratings on the same layout. But it turns out that more propagators is still better than fewer but more consistent props.

[ERicJ]

After the change below, old tournaments no longer show propagators in bold. Any plans to restore that level of detail?

Originally Posted by PDGA

We recently published some changes to the way tournament results are displayed to implement one of the most frequently requested enhancements: displaying the historical rating of a player when viewing past tournament results.

First, let's describe the three different views of tournament results:

1. Current Registration
   • Displays a list of registered players prior to the start of an event. This view includes a players current rating, hometown, and sometimes membership and official status depending on the tier of the event.
2. Unofficial Results
   • After an event has begun, you will see this view. It will includes scores and unofficial round ratings plus prize money if provided by tournament staff.
3. Official Results
   • This is what you see once a tournament is complete, the tournament report has been submitted to the PDGA office, and it has been processed. This view includes points, final places, prize money and, after the next ratings update, you will see official ratings.

Previously, all views of tournament results would display a players current rating no matter when the event took place. Now, the player rating displayed for Official Results is the rating the player had at the time of the event. This includes current and former members.

On the Current Registration and Unofficial Results views, the player rating displayed for active members is their current rating as has always been the case. If a player is not a current member, we do not display a rating. So, if you're an active player who isn't a current member, make sure to renew your membership today if you want to know what your current rating is.
Now you can look back and reminisce and remember what you were rated way back when. Enjoy!

-- http://www.pdga.com/announcements/website-update

[cgkdisc]

I'm guessing not. The old ratings are being pulled in for the old event display and there's no direct database history to grab identifying who was a propagator at the time.

[krupicka]

As a player I like this new feature of keeping the historical rating. As a league and tournament director, I despise it greatly.

[steveganz]

Originally Posted by krupicka

As a player I like this new feature of keeping the historical rating. As a league and tournament director, I despise it greatly.

I can totally understand the need to be able to quickly look up a player's current rating at a glance. I will be building out a special registration/results view for tournament directors as part of a tournament administrator application upgrade in the future. Until then, you can always check the spreadsheet the office provides in advance of the tournament.

[cgkdisc]

One issue to be determined for league results would be which historical rating to use for players since it's likely there will be a ratings update sometime during league. Presumably, the rating when the league started would be the one to use.

[steveganz]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

One issue to be determined for league results would be which historical rating to use for players since it's likely there will be a ratings update sometime during league. Presumably, the rating when the league started would be the one to use.

That makes the most sense.

[Fats]

Does the established par of a course for a tourney have any bearing on ratings, or does it only matter your score relative to everyone else? Last week I shot my second round (tentatively 1001-rated) on a course that was a par 58. Unfortunately the TD copied the par from the first round (56) for that 2nd round, so instead of finishing the tourney at +1, I finished at +3.

Personally I don't care at all about the + or - strokes, but will the rating be at all different when the proper par is allocated to that final round (knowing it's only a difference of two strokes)?

[jconnell]

Originally Posted by Fats

Does the established par of a course for a tourney have any bearing on ratings, or does it only matter your score relative to everyone else? Last week I shot my second round (tentatively 1001-rated) on a course that was a par 58. Unfortunately the TD copied the par from the first round (56) for that 2nd round, so instead of finishing the tourney at +1, I finished at +3.

Personally I don't care at all about the + or - strokes, but will the rating be at all different when the proper par is allocated to that final round (knowing it's only a difference of two strokes)?

With the sole exception of application of section 1.5B(1) (par+4 for late arrival), par is irrelevant in disc golf. It has no bearing on ratings whatsoever. If the ratings change at all, it won't be because of the par, it will be some other factor.

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by krupicka

As a player I like this new feature of keeping the historical rating. As a league and tournament director, I despise it greatly.

Completely agree.

Originally Posted by steveganz

I can totally understand the need to be able to quickly look up a player's current rating at a glance. I will be building out a special registration/results view for tournament directors as part of a tournament administrator application upgrade in the future. Until then, you can always check the spreadsheet the office provides in advance of the tournament.

I never got a spreadsheet with the sanctioned league that I'm running. Was I supposed to have received one?

[Fats]

Thanks Josh, that's what I thought. Chuck, give that man a cookie for making your job easier.

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

One issue to be determined for league results would be which historical rating to use for players since it's likely there will be a ratings update sometime during league. Presumably, the rating when the league started would be the one to use.

What about the case where a player starts a league mid-way through, after a mid-league ratings update?

E.g.
League started on 13-Mar.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament_resul...s%3D1361046908

Ratings update on 23-Mar.

Sheldon Jefferson doesn't play his first league event until 24-Apr.
Glen Russell doesn't play his first league event until 8-May.

Should those players use historical player ratings from 13-Mar or what they were after the 23-Mar update?

[steveganz]

Originally Posted by ERIcJ

After the change...old tournaments no longer show propagators in bold. Any plans to restore that level of detail?

Thanks for bringing that up. We actually do keep a historical record of propagator status. Official Results now show the historical propagators in bold.

[cgkdisc]

Very cool. I didn't think the historical prop detail got carried over to the PDGA database.

I'm not sure if Roger can use the ratings of the players if they change during league or if the ratings at the start of league will be used all the way thru.

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by steveganz

Thanks for bringing that up. We actually do keep a historical record of propagator status. Official Results now show the historical propagators in bold.

Keep rockin' the great updates Steve! Lovin' it.

[steveganz]

Originally Posted by ERicJ

I never got a spreadsheet with the sanctioned league that I'm running. Was I supposed to have received one?

Yes, every event director should receive a Member List on the Wednesday prior to the start of their event but it looks like L-Tiers were inadvertently excluded from this process. I will make sure this is corrected for future events.

[drumin5216]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

One issue to be determined for league results would be which historical rating to use for players since it's likely there will be a ratings update sometime during league. Presumably, the rating when the league started would be the one to use.

If there is a ratings update mid-league, wouldn't that then change the round ratings for the league? If so, it would make more sense to use those ratings as the displayed historical rating since those are the ones that were used to calculate round ratings. If that is not the case, then IMO it should be since the update could include a previous league with rounds potentially played 2 or 3 months previous.

[cgkdisc]

What will likely happen is the unofficial ratings for every week will be recalculated using the newer player ratings when they are published mid-league. However, I believe we'll be able to use the ratings of propagators at the time they play each of their league weeks when the official ratings are done once the league is completed.

[xterramatt]

The Buckhorn ratings from FEBRUARY are still not even close to correct, Chuck.

Can you fix it and REUPDATE THE RATINGS or are we going to have to continue to wait?

[ERicJ]

Chuck, I don't see any of the rounds from the first league session showing up in my players ratings detail:
http://www.pdga.com/tournament_resul...6s%3D407379381
League ended May 15 and Report was in well before the deadline.

A quick check of a few other leagues doesn't look like any of them got included in the ratings update either.

[jconnell]

Before everyone gets into a full-blown panic, remember that last update it took ALLLLL day for the update to finish. It appears the same thing is happening again. The update is probably in process, but it is not done yet. So if you're not seeing everything you think you should see, give it some time before you think the event(s) in question were left out.

As for the leagues, that's explained in the announcement already. Leagues will be added with a special update "within the next few weeks".

[cgkdisc]

The Buckhorn ratings from FEBRUARY are still not even close to correct, Chuck.

That's Andrew's area to process corrections. I'll let him know it didn't get done.

The league reports can't (yet) be processed as part of the regular event ratings process. So, all completed leagues will be processed separately in the next few weeks as noted above.

[krupicka]

Is there a deadline for getting the league reports in for that update? I have one that I need to turn in this evening.

[cgkdisc]

I think it will make it. The deadline for the August 14th update is July 31st so the next update is coming fast so the Worlds can be included.