Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[davei]

Originally Posted by sprdgr

different as in more stable? - or how?

June product update possibly for the release?

No release date scheduled and no run date scheduled yet. Stability was not changed, hopefully just consistency, but we won't know until we run them.

[rizbee]

Hey Dave - How about a small batch of Star or Champion Wolfs for the Factor Store? And gummy ones, please!

[davei]

Originally Posted by rizbee

Hey Dave - How about a small batch of Star or Champion Wolfs for the Factor Store? And gummy ones, please!

We tried it a few years ago. They didn't fly right. Too stable.

[jamie]

Dave

Could you settle a little debate we are having? Someone is trying to say that a 130 class blizzard destroyer will be more stable than a 150 class blizzard boss, or teedevil, or wraith. They are quoting you as saying this and I can't find where. Thanks in advance. Jamie

[John Hernlund]

Would love to see how Blizzard versions of the Valkyrie, Eagle, Teebird, TL, PD, Banshee, etc., would turn out. Are there any plans to run narrower rimmed molds in Blizzard?

[bruce_brakel]

Not to answer for Dave, but 150 Champion Valkyries, Banshees, TeeBirds, Sidewinders, Eagles and Firebirds have been stock discs for many years. Not all of them are currently in stock. With the exception of the Banshee and Firebird, I think they have run all those molds in 150 Star also.

[davei]

Originally Posted by jamie

Dave

Could you settle a little debate we are having? Someone is trying to say that a 130 class blizzard destroyer will be more stable than a 150 class blizzard boss, or teedevil, or wraith. They are quoting you as saying this and I can't find where. Thanks in advance. Jamie

So far, the Destroyer Blizzards have been the most stable. Also, generally as the weight goes down, the stablility does too. It might be that a 137gm Blizzard Destroyer is more stable than a 149g Blizzard Boss, TeeDevil or Wraith, but I wouldn't count on it every time. Sometimes the weird happens and 130gm Katanas are more stable than Destroyers.

[davei]

Originally Posted by John Hernlund

Would love to see how Blizzard versions of the Valkyrie, Eagle, Teebird, TL, PD, Banshee, etc., would turn out. Are there any plans to run narrower rimmed molds in Blizzard?

We have a test coming up on Roadrunners. There is a point of diminishing returns for Blizzard vs DX for the slower models. People who don't throw far or fast also don't destroy their discs as fast as the Ape arms. Additionally, the biggest bang for the buck involves the faster discs that can still penetrate at lighter weights. Slower discs are more efficient at heavier weights than faster discs.

What weight and speed for what particular wind condition, disc, and thrower style and power is varied. The Ape arms won't benefit at all throwing up wind, but will down wind. Others, who can't generate full speed with maximum weight might benefit upwind and down by the additional acceleration and glide they get both up wind (up to a point) and downwind (infinite). YMMV

[jamie]

Thanks Dave

[hvnafit]

Dave
I want to admit that; I really just don't understand!!!!
I fell in love with your Blizzard Katanas. I bought my first one (143 g Katana). This disc totally turned my game around. I searched until i found another 143 Katana. it happened to be the exact same color and flew exactly the same as the first one. Therefore i have been searching for any blizzard Katanas in the 140g range. There are none to be found. I have even called about 10 disc suppliers and they are saying they have many in the 130s and 150s none in the 140s. well i decided I'd try a lighter one. 136g to be exact. this is a totally different disc! all bubbles are in the rim (my others have them in rim and flight plate. the 140s give me the lazy "S" everyone wants for distance. I can't flip this one into a head wind. flies so stable for me that it is useless to me.
Please inform me as to why all disc manfactures seem to change things from their first run to their second. why are the bubbles taken out of the flight plate? why are the new ones sooooo much more domey than the ones i have? every Katana i have seen sense my two are sooo different than the first ones that came out. i am still looking for a new one in the 140s and would really like to find one with the bubbles throughout the disc. if you make a perfect product why change it?!?!?!?!? please help me to understand. Im not really complaining just wanting to understand.

thanks for your time

Jimmy

[davei]

Originally Posted by hvnafit

Dave
I want to admit that; I really just don't understand!!!!
I fell in love with your Blizzard Katanas. I bought my first one (143 g Katana). This disc totally turned my game around. I searched until i found another 143 Katana. it happened to be the exact same color and flew exactly the same as the first one. Therefore i have been searching for any blizzard Katanas in the 140g range. There are none to be found. I have even called about 10 disc suppliers and they are saying they have many in the 130s and 150s none in the 140s. well i decided I'd try a lighter one. 136g to be exact. this is a totally different disc! all bubbles are in the rim (my others have them in rim and flight plate. the 140s give me the lazy "S" everyone wants for distance. I can't flip this one into a head wind. flies so stable for me that it is useless to me.
Please inform me as to why all disc manfactures seem to change things from their first run to their second. why are the bubbles taken out of the flight plate? why are the new ones sooooo much more domey than the ones i have? every Katana i have seen sense my two are sooo different than the first ones that came out. i am still looking for a new one in the 140s and would really like to find one with the bubbles throughout the disc. if you make a perfect product why change it?!?!?!?!? please help me to understand. Im not really complaining just wanting to understand.

thanks for your time

Jimmy

Many others have the same questions you do. First, I don't know why you can't find any Katana in the 140s, other than your dealers are out.

The inconsistencies are due to the nature of the materials and molding variables. This happens much more with Blizzard than any other disc type. With Blizzard, it is very difficult to get consistent results from disc to disc coming out of the machine, let alone from batch to batch. Even the colors we use change the appearance of the Blizzard. I would like to say that we have mastered the Blizzard tech by now, but we haven't. We are doing our best and have purchased a new piece of equipment which we expect will help with this.

All this being said; whether there are bubbles in the flight plate or not, it doesn't affect the flight of the disc. A disc with only bubbles in the rim may be more or less stable or domier or flatter. All those characteristics vary independent of each other. You might try contacting Eric at the Innova Store and ask him for a specific type disc in a factory second.

Your 136g Katana may become more useful over time as you beat it in. Once you have seasoned this disc, it will be useful for a long time.

[futurecollisions]

Dave,

Any news on the Pro Pig being run in the original plastic again (jk pro type)?

Thanks

[gvan]

Dave. I'm loving the Blizzard discs. I have found that because I had to concentrate on the release more, my 165-170g discs are now going around 10% further! (I know, you have that in your signature =-)

I am interested in the business side of things and have 2 questions that you may or may not feel like you can answer at this time...

Based on your previous posts, it sounds like the Blizzard process was quite difficult to get right. Is the process patented or protected for Innova in some way?

If so, will you license it to others? I can't imagine that the other companies are not trying to duplicate the success.

[davei]

Originally Posted by futurecollisions

Dave,

Any news on the Pro Pig being run in the original plastic again (jk pro type)?

Thanks

Nothing yet.

[davei]

Originally Posted by gvan

Dave. I'm loving the Blizzard discs. I have found that because I had to concentrate on the release more, my 165-170g discs are now going around 10% further! (I know, you have that in your signature =-)

I am interested in the business side of things and have 2 questions that you may or may not feel like you can answer at this time...

Based on your previous posts, it sounds like the Blizzard process was quite difficult to get right. Is the process patented or protected for Innova in some way?

If so, will you license it to others? I can't imagine that the other companies are not trying to duplicate the success.

The process is not patented and I would be surprised if the other companies are not trying to duplicate it. The only protection is the difficulty in doing it.

[gvan]

Originally Posted by davei

The process is not patented and I would be surprised if the other companies are not trying to duplicate it. The only protection is the difficulty in doing it.

Well here's hoping for a good lead time so you can benefit from the work.

[thenatureboy68]

Hello Dave,

I just wondered about Discmania... Is there any new disc design coming up for Discmania?

Is CFR FD jackal already made ? if so, then will it be regular C-line on FD? Also I have KC pro material P2. Will it be regular ? Will it add big bead on next putter as P3?


THanks !

[davei]

Originally Posted by thenatureboy68

Hello Dave,

I just wondered about Discmania... Is there any new disc design coming up for Discmania?

Is CFR FD jackal already made ? if so, then will it be regular C-line on FD? Also I have KC pro material P2. Will it be regular ? Will it add big bead on next putter as P3?


THanks !

All of these questions should be addressed to Jussi. He makes all the decisions regarding Discmania. I am pretty sure that the big bead won't be added to make a P3, though.

[bruce_brakel]

Hey, Dave. Not a question, just a hat tip. No response required.

Kelsey is loving the 150 Blizzard Katanas, Destroyers and I think she is also throwing a TeeDevil. She got her first win in Men's Intermediate last weekend, playing two of the four rounds on a long open course. Used to be she could not compete on those courses with what was available in 150 Champion and Z drivers.

She's trying to shoot her way out of Men's Intermediate before the long, dark night of veterinary medical school sets in!

[crotts]

It's great to see the DX Ram at the Store. Is there any chance of having the Ram in Champ or STAR plastic?

Thanks
: ) :

[davei]

Originally Posted by crotts

It's great to see the DX Ram at the Store. Is there any chance of having the Ram in Champ or STAR plastic?

Thanks
: ) :

Yes, but not soon.

[tokyo]

Is there any chance to have Banshee's in blizzard plastic?

[davei]

Originally Posted by tokyo

Is there any chance to have Banshee's in blizzard plastic?

Possibly, but I am not sure what the point would be unless you were interested in a very light Champion Banshee. Banshees already go down to 150gms in Champion. A Monster or Max would make more sense to me personally.

[desertstormvet]

Dave I have some questions involving the Krait. My kid just picked up a CFR Krait 175g. We went to test it out in the field and was surprised on how it flew. First i threw it flat, it went straight and at the end it took a very hard left. I then asked my son to throw it because I do not have the fastest/strongest arm and he has a much stronger throw. He threw it with a little hyzer, it flipped flat and at the end it took a extreme left. This brought out my curiosity so I went to disc golf review and read what others had to say about this disc. It appears others have had the same results, one guy even suggested the following numbers would match this diac better. 11,5,0,3.
I was just wondering if it could be just the CFR's and when they come out with the standard runs they would more match the current numbers? I love my Pro Wraiths and Archons and this disc should fit right inbetween them, I hope that maybe I and a few others just ended up with a very overstable one and that is not the norm.

[davei]

Originally Posted by desertstormvet

Dave I have some questions involving the Krait. My kid just picked up a CFR Krait 175g. We went to test it out in the field and was surprised on how it flew. First i threw it flat, it went straight and at the end it took a very hard left. I then asked my son to throw it because I do not have the fastest/strongest arm and he has a much stronger throw. He threw it with a little hyzer, it flipped flat and at the end it took a extreme left. This brought out my curiosity so I went to disc golf review and read what others had to say about this disc. It appears others have had the same results, one guy even suggested the following numbers would match this diac better. 11,5,0,3.
I was just wondering if it could be just the CFR's and when they come out with the standard runs they would more match the current numbers? I love my Pro Wraiths and Archons and this disc should fit right inbetween them, I hope that maybe I and a few others just ended up with a very overstable one and that is not the norm.

I hope it is just the CFRs as our initial testing didn't fly that stable and the Blizzards, which will be released shortly are not that stable either. If it turns our that the heavier Champion just won't mold like the originals, we will do Star instead. Meanwhile, with the CFRs, they will just take more seasoning to get to where they should have been originally.

[Cooper]

A question about S/DS destroyers:

I've heard all the stuff that it is just a different marking that is used and doesn't really matter but in my experience, any destroyer that I have thrown that has been marked S/DS on the back AND has had a marbled appearance has been very beefy.

1. Is there anything that would have made them that stable?

2. What causes the marble? And could it be a contributing factor to the stability?

Thanks

[JenniferB]

If you decide to patent the Blizzard thing, i know a good patent attorney. ;-)

Meanwhile, I have been enjoying the 150 Blizzard Destroyer lately for it's reliable fade, but I have not encountered any blizzard disc (including 130 Katanas) that make really good turnover discs for me, because they still fade back at the end. The only one that did not fade back for me was a blizzard teedevil that simply cannot be thrown (even as a spike hyzer) without turning into a roller. More recent teedevil runs seem MUCH more stable.

So I'm still looking for a good long range turnover driver, and I think the 165ish Mamba seems promising. What I'd like to know is if there are any plans to bring out blizzard Vulcans, or even blizzard Mambas. Anything planned yet to your knowledge?

[davei]

Originally Posted by Cooper

A question about S/DS destroyers:

I've heard all the stuff that it is just a different marking that is used and doesn't really matter but in my experience, any destroyer that I have thrown that has been marked S/DS on the back AND has had a marbled appearance has been very beefy.

1. Is there anything that would have made them that stable?

2. What causes the marble? And could it be a contributing factor to the stability?

Thanks

The S D/S marking is irrelevant, but the marbling may not be. I don't know for a fact that the marbled discs are more stable in general, but it could be the case.

[davei]

Originally Posted by JenniferB

If you decide to patent the Blizzard thing, i know a good patent attorney. ;-)

Meanwhile, I have been enjoying the 150 Blizzard Destroyer lately for it's reliable fade, but I have not encountered any blizzard disc (including 130 Katanas) that make really good turnover discs for me, because they still fade back at the end. The only one that did not fade back for me was a blizzard teedevil that simply cannot be thrown (even as a spike hyzer) without turning into a roller. More recent teedevil runs seem MUCH more stable.

So I'm still looking for a good long range turnover driver, and I think the 165ish Mamba seems promising. What I'd like to know is if there are any plans to bring out blizzard Vulcans, or even blizzard Mambas. Anything planned yet to your knowledge?

Blizzard Vulcans will probably happen by the end of the year. Mambas already go down to 150s, so theres not that much point, especially with a flippy disc, but I wouldn't rule it out.

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by davei

The S D/S marking is irrelevant, but the marbling may not be. I don't know for a fact that the marbled discs are more stable in general, but it could be the case.

I agree that the marking is irrelevant, except insofar as it can help you find a particular run or increase the likelihood that you have a particular run.

So, what causes the marbling and can it be replicated?

As far as the marbled destroyers I've seen they are all pretty stable, have a moderately high dome, and seem to be stiffer than some other runs of star destroyers. It would be awesome if they were all like that.