Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[drdisc]

Dave, we have heard a few variations of the Blizzard developement.
Accident, on purpose, etc. What is the real story on this great innovation? Thanks.

[davei]

Originally Posted by drdisc

Dave, we have heard a few variations of the Blizzard developement.
Accident, on purpose, etc. What is the real story on this great innovation? Thanks.

It was definitely on purpose. It started a couple of years ago with the Starlite discs. We were able to get a few grams lighter with Bosses and Destroyers. These were the initial discs this development was aimed at. We could only get Bosses in Champion or Star down to about 168gms at best. With Blizzard we got them down to 164, but it also affected the stability. They got too stable, which wasn't bad, but it meant they wouldn't be good right off the shelf.

We knew we wanted to get the Champion and Star discs down in weights usable to mere mortals. At the time, we were thinking upper 150's and lower 160's. The initial reaction to what we had was to worry about the cosmetic effect and how the market would react to something different looking and feeling, even if it did fly better. Our own staff was very skeptical about the appearance and market acceptance.

Once my son Koby was able to improve the technique and get the weights down as low as we wanted, we began to think beyond the appearance, because the performance was so spectacular. Every time we had one of our testers try them, the reaction was them same; they were amazed and often giggled. That was a good reaction.

Making Blizzards is fairly difficult as a consistent product is very difficult. We started with bubbles in the flight plate and rim, but moved to just the rim as they were more consistent and easier to hot stamp.

Eventually, Koby was able to use the Blizzard technique on DX and could get DX Condors down to 120gms and Pulsars down from 180gm to 165gms.

We are still experimenting, but it looks like Blizzards are here to stay. The combination of lower weight higher speed discs is very attractive, I think. It doesn't seem to be of much value for the slower speed golf discs, as they need more weight to push through the wind. However, discs like Condors and Pulsars can benefit from the extra glide they get.

[20460chase]

..So I would think Koby is set there at Innova. This is a huge advancement in disc golf driving distance.

Until I started throwing these the Starlight was by far the best Boss Innova had ever released....but the Blizzard has all but replaced it in my bag. I still carry the Starlight for extreme headwinds, but these 155g Blizzards are the TRUTH.

Since I took the time to learn them ( Which in my sales experiance is the difference between those that have liked them vs. those who havent ) I can do about everything with them, including flicks. It has also helped my game in terms of health, as I no longer require more than a step or two run-up, my knees, ankles and back all feel great after even the most demanding courses. ( Not to mention my arm felt like a million bucks )

To be blunt, imo, anyone that isnt trying to add these to thier bags are either sponsored by another company or are cavemen. Dont get me wrong, I understand these are DISTANCE DRIVERS. They arent replacing my heavier weight control drivers, just my high speed distance discs. That being said, they are also very reliable due to the hard finish, I have confidence throwing them on tree lined tunnel touch shots with the same confidence I have blasting a open field drive. Much like any disc its about the dedication to learning the charectorists that make it a great weapon.

..And No, I dont have slow arm speed, I am a good enough player to slow my armspeed down and cut out the run=up. I just love being places on the course Ive never been before, thats what it does for Me.

Negatives for me is that I love throwing them, maybe too much. I feel like I can bully them into robbing a gas station if thats what I wanted. I think sometimes I gamble on certain shots but thats also because of a newfound confidence.

I love them though and dont see them leaving the bag anytime soon.

Thanks Dave.

[desertstormvet]

Dave, i have been looking at Roc's in general when i came along to the San Marino Roc. At Discgolfcenter they say the numbers on it are as follows 4, 4, -1, 2. Then I was looking at them on Discgolfvalues and they said the numbers for the same disc is 4, 4, 0, 3. Could you tell me what the actual numbers are for the Star San Marino Roc? Thanks Dave

[drdisc]

Dave, all the mere mortals thank you.

[mf100forever]

Dave, I would love to try out some Blizz Champ Jaguars, any thoughts of running a batch?
They old DX Jags are getting rare, some sell for over $40 on ebay?

[davei]

Originally Posted by desertstormvet

Dave, i have been looking at Roc's in general when i came along to the San Marino Roc. At Discgolfcenter they say the numbers on it are as follows 4, 4, -1, 2. Then I was looking at them on Discgolfvalues and they said the numbers for the same disc is 4, 4, 0, 3. Could you tell me what the actual numbers are for the Star San Marino Roc? Thanks Dave

All San Marinos are 4,4,0,3. Only the old Ontarios, (which we don't run anymore) were 4,4,-1,2.

[davei]

Originally Posted by mf100forever

Dave, I would love to try out some Blizz Champ Jaguars, any thoughts of running a batch?
They old DX Jags are getting rare, some sell for over $40 on ebay?

Yes, there is a chance, as the mold still exists. We haven't scheduled it as yet.

[desertstormvet]

Dave, I do love my new Mamba, any plans on making this in Blizzard?

[davei]

Originally Posted by desertstormvet

Dave, I do love my new Mamba, any plans on making this in Blizzard?

Not right now, at any rate. They already go down to the low 150s; (and fly really well at that weight)

[tokyo]

Hey Dave there is a rumor floating around here that the Rhyno, Pig, and Monarchs and discs as such are bout to be illegal, is there any truth to that?

[rickgz]

Hello Dave,

I am mostly a lurker around here but since you are discussing Blizzard discs I thought I would ask you for a reccomendation.

I currently have one Blizzard disc, a 154 Boss which works well for me as a distance hyzer driver. I would like to add another Blizzard disc to my bag that will give me a longer distance anhyzer weapon. Could you reccomend one for me?

I am an older guy (rhbh) that doesn't have great arm speed, but do have decent strength. I usually throw drivers in the 167-172 range and have had success with Wraith's, Vulcans, Archons and a Nuke (I know another brand).

I appreciate any insight you may have.

Thanks,

Rick G

[davei]

Originally Posted by tokyo

Hey Dave there is a rumor floating around here that the Rhyno, Pig, and Monarchs and discs as such are bout to be illegal, is there any truth to that?

Not that I know of.

[davei]

Originally Posted by rickgz

Hello Dave,

I am mostly a lurker around here but since you are discussing Blizzard discs I thought I would ask you for a reccomendation.

I currently have one Blizzard disc, a 154 Boss which works well for me as a distance hyzer driver. I would like to add another Blizzard disc to my bag that will give me a longer distance anhyzer weapon. Could you reccomend one for me?

I am an older guy (rhbh) that doesn't have great arm speed, but do have decent strength. I usually throw drivers in the 167-172 range and have had success with Wraith's, Vulcans, Archons and a Nuke (I know another brand).

I appreciate any insight you may have.

Thanks,

Rick G

Blizzard Wraith, Blizzard DD2, and Blizzard Katana. I personally use DD2 and Katanas from 157 to 167gms. Of these named discs, the Katana turns the most, but unless you have 360ft of power or more, it is a very reliable driver. The DD2 will take you up to about 380ft of reliable power. From 380ft to 400, you would need a Blizzard TeeDevil or Boss, and over 400ft, a Blizzard Destroyer.

Another way to go is a lighter Blizzard Boss in the low 140s. Easier to turn over and longer gliding, but it won't be as good in the wind.

[desertstormvet]

Dave, i have been waiting a little while for the standard version of the Dominator to be released instead of the CFR's. When do you see the standered Blizzard Dominators being released for sell?

[davei]

Originally Posted by desertstormvet

Dave, i have been waiting a little while for the standard version of the Dominator to be released instead of the CFR's. When do you see the standered Blizzard Dominators being released for sell?

Really not sure at this point, but certainly not before June sometime.

[rizbee]

Dave,

Many thanks to you and your son for the Blizzard line! I have been throwing lighter plastic for several years (mostly Sidewinders, Valks, Beasts and Orcs in the 150's), and have always wished for 150g or less models of the wide-winged drivers. R-Pro helped a little, but these new Blizzard Champion discs bomb, and they're somewhat durable.

I've mostly been throwing Katanas. 150 Katanas hyper-flip up to flat for me and carry a mile. Once they're beat in, they become great turnover drivers. Right now I'm learning how to control a 130g Katana. A near-vertical hyzer release downwind and it carries a long way.

I've found most other models at 150g to be too over-stable for my arm speed. Bit by bit I'll try some lighter ones as budget allows.

These discs have leveled the playing field a bit for me (especially at Goat Hill). Great work!!!

[davei]

Originally Posted by rizbee

Dave,

Many thanks to you and your son for the Blizzard line! I have been throwing lighter plastic for several years (mostly Sidewinders, Valks, Beasts and Orcs in the 150's), and have always wished for 150g or less models of the wide-winged drivers. R-Pro helped a little, but these new Blizzard Champion discs bomb, and they're somewhat durable.

I've mostly been throwing Katanas. 150 Katanas hyper-flip up to flat for me and carry a mile. Once they're beat in, they become great turnover drivers. Right now I'm learning how to control a 130g Katana. A near-vertical hyzer release downwind and it carries a long way.

I've found most other models at 150g to be too over-stable for my arm speed. Bit by bit I'll try some lighter ones as budget allows.

These discs have leveled the playing field a bit for me (especially at Goat Hill). Great work!!!

Thanks Allen.

[bruce_brakel]

Dave, the Waterford Brakels are enjoying the Blizzard discs. Kelsey is getting 400 foot drives with the 150 Katana. And beating me.

Do you know how much they'll break in? For example, Diana's 130ish TeeDevil started out as a hyzer disc for her but after a month has broken in to more of a line drive disc with a little early turn and a lot of fade on the finish. My 150 Boss has broken in from a hyzer disc to more of a line drive with fade disc, but it has not had as many knocks as Diana's TeeDevil.

[davei]

Originally Posted by bruce_brakel

Dave, the Waterford Brakels are enjoying the Blizzard discs. Kelsey is getting 400 foot drives with the 150 Katana. And beating me.

Do you know how much they'll break in? For example, Diana's 130ish TeeDevil started out as a hyzer disc for her but after a month has broken in to more of a line drive disc with a little early turn and a lot of fade on the finish. My 150 Boss has broken in from a hyzer disc to more of a line drive with fade disc, but it has not had as many knocks as Diana's TeeDevil.

The Blizzards all break in more than regular Champion, but slower than Pro and much slower than DX. The heavier Blizzards are generally a little tougher than the lighter Blizzards. Break in is also dependent on the environment thrown in. If you play on grass, your break in period will be much slower than if you play on other, rougher surfaces. If you want a Blizzard to last a long time, you can use a slightly too stable model to start. After it in wears in, it will last a good long time. The Ape is the most stable, followed by the Destroyer, then Boss, then TeeDevil, Wraith, and Katana. We also make two Discmania blizzards; the PD2, which is close to Ape Stable, and the DD2, which is close to TeeDevil stable. Higher weights tend to be a little more stable and wind resistant.

[JenniferB]

Is it possible that blizzard discs will be released in glow at some point? What I mean is, does the glow additive prevent lower weights, or application of blizzard technology?

[davei]

Originally Posted by JenniferB

Is it possible that blizzard discs will be released in glow at some point? What I mean is, does the glow additive prevent lower weights, or application of blizzard technology?

We are going to test that out at some point. Glow is definitely heavier, but not much.

[sprdgr]

Hey Dave,

Any truth to the rumor that The Dominator is being re-tooled?

Thanks,

Mike

[Mayumoogy]

I recently bought new 12x champion firebird, the one with the little circle silhouette of Ken Climo. It is super flat and very stable! The plastic also seems to be more translucent than see through, and is very stiff. I asked you awhile ago about the molds changing over the years, and you told me that it wasn't the mold but the plastic that changes over the years. What other molds were made with that run of plastic? Can we expect any nice stiff eagles or teebirds coming soon?

Also I love the blizzard discs! I recently parked a 460 hole in a headwind with a 159 Ape, it has definitely helped my game. Can we expect any Blizzard Xcals or other overstable discs that can handle the big winds?

Thank you for your time.

[davei]

Originally Posted by sprdgr

Hey Dave,

Any truth to the rumor that The Dominator is being re-tooled?

Thanks,

Mike

The run will be slightly different than the protos, which is all that has been released so far.

[davei]

Originally Posted by Mayumoogy

I recently bought new 12x champion firebird, the one with the little circle silhouette of Ken Climo. It is super flat and very stable! The plastic also seems to be more translucent than see through, and is very stiff. I asked you awhile ago about the molds changing over the years, and you told me that it wasn't the mold but the plastic that changes over the years. What other molds were made with that run of plastic? Can we expect any nice stiff eagles or teebirds coming soon?

Also I love the blizzard discs! I recently parked a 460 hole in a headwind with a 159 Ape, it has definitely helped my game. Can we expect any Blizzard Xcals or other overstable discs that can handle the big winds?

Thank you for your time.

We may use that plastic for a small run of TeeBirds or Eagles for the store.
So far, just the Ape and Destroyers are wind fighters. I doubt we release an entire run of Blizzard XCals or Maxes, but we might sample some to see the market reaction. More likely, we will have some lower weights of those discs, such as the sixties.

[davei]

Originally Posted by Mayumoogy

Also I love the blizzard discs! I recently parked a 460 hole in a headwind with a 159 Ape, it has definitely helped my game. Can we expect any Blizzard Xcals or other overstable discs that can handle the big winds?

Thank you for your time.

Sorry, I forgot about the PD2. We have run that in Blizzard and X-outs are available at the Store.

[sprdgr]

Originally Posted by davei

The run will be slightly different than the protos, which is all that has been released so far.

different as in more stable? - or how?

June product update possibly for the release?

[20460chase]

Originally Posted by davei

Sorry, I forgot about the PD2. We have run that in Blizzard and X-outs are available at the Store.

What about for your brick and mortar retailers? The Innova store may be great and all, but dont you think about your retailers that want and need discs like these to pull in customers? Theres nothing like hearing " Oh I got it at the Innova Factory Store because you cant order them " from my customers.

I guess it just doesnt matter right?

[davei]

Originally Posted by 20460chase

What about for your brick and mortar retailers? The Innova store may be great and all, but dont you think about your retailers that want and need discs like these to pull in customers? Theres nothing like hearing " Oh I got it at the Innova Factory Store because you cant order them " from my customers.

I guess it just doesnt matter right?

We are just selling F2 discs at the store. Try contacting the Factory Store for dealer pricing on F2s. The release on non F2s hasn't happened yet.