119-Disc Distance Challenge

[John Hernlund]

So this is going to be super fun. As part of the distance competition at University of California, Santa Cruz on Wednesday 16 May, Tom Schot is going to bring out a number of 119-Discs for the big arms to throw in a separate competition.

The essential question we are asking is this: Can today's big arms throw as far as the big arms of yesterday, using the same equipment?

The 119-Disc is what folks were throwing in the late 1970s for max distance, before the heavier phosphorous discs came out (around 1980). There were only a handful of throwers able to break 400' distance with this disc in the late 1970s, almost always throwing sidearm (it was easier to get the nose down with a sidearm throw). Ken Westerfield smashed world records in 1978 with a 552' sidearm throw, a record that still stands today for sidearm throws. However, his usual throws were closer to 330'-360'. Other distance competitions held in California at the time showed throwers struggling to break 330' with a 119-Disc.

We should have a pretty good turnout for this event, as it is just prior to Masters Cup NT in Santa Cruz. We expect quite a few big arms to turn out. Avery Jenkins has already been practicing with a 119, and is really interested in seeing how far he can throw it.

What do you think? Can the arms of today match the arms of yesterday?

Here's a photo of Ken Westerfield with a 119-Disc in Santa Cruz, 1977:


How will guys like Avery Jenkins compare?

[tenseicoalition]

I love the beard! I don't think Mr. jenkin's would rock the beard as well...

[rizbee]

Very cool idea!!

Based on the size of the disc in Ken's hand in that picture, I think it may be a 141g (50-mold). Tom "drdisc" Monroe was another big sidearm thrower from that era, and I think the larger-diameter 50-mold or 60-mold (Super Pro) discs were preferred by many sidearmers. Better off-axis torque protection, perhaps?

Please, please, please get some video of this!!!!!!!!!

[davei]

Originally Posted by John Hernlund

So this is going to be super fun. As part of the distance competition at University of California, Santa Cruz on Wednesday 16 May, Tom Schot is going to bring out a number of 119-Discs for the big arms to throw in a separate competition.

The essential question we are asking is this: Can today's big arms throw as far as the big arms of yesterday, using the same equipment?

The 119-Disc is what folks were throwing in the late 1970s for max distance, before the heavier phosphorous discs came out (around 1980). There were only a handful of throwers able to break 400' distance with this disc in the late 1970s, almost always throwing sidearm (it was easier to get the nose down with a sidearm throw). Ken Westerfield smashed world records in 1978 with a 552' sidearm throw, a record that still stands today for sidearm throws. However, his usual throws were closer to 330'-360'. Other distance competitions held in California at the time showed throwers struggling to break 330' with a 119-Disc.

We should have a pretty good turnout for this event, as it is just prior to Masters Cup NT in Santa Cruz. We expect quite a few big arms to turn out. Avery Jenkins has already been practicing with a 119, and is really interested in seeing how far he can throw it.

What do you think? Can the arms of today match the arms of yesterday?

I don't think some of your information is correct. The world record was not set by Westerfield at that time. The record, 444ft, was set in Dallas as it says in wiki something, but it was not Westerfield, it was John Kirkland throwing backhand, with a yellow 119 aka 40 mold. Westerfield's perported throw was a demonstration, not a record. Kirkland held the record for several years.

Not to be a nag, but most throwers threw backhand at the time, same as now.

Westerfield was one of the best sidearms at the time, but I am not sure if he was any better than Tom Monroe or Victor Malefronte.

[John Hernlund]

Originally Posted by davei

I don't think some of your information is correct. The world record was not set by Westerfield at that time...Westerfield was one of the best sidearms at the time, but I am not sure if he was any better than Tom Monroe or Victor Malefronte.

Hi Dave,

Ken Westerfield sent a clarification to my post, quoted below:

Originally Posted by Ken_Westerfield

The 552' wasn't an official record at the time, because it wasn't done in competition, it was an unofficial world record, but since there is no official sidearm record recognition by WFDF or any other sanctioning body. It is what it is, the longest sidearm throw ever witnessed, measured and recorded. Victor also had a 538' sidearm throw. No one else has ever come close to these throws with a 119g 40 mold

[frisbeeguy]

<>

Ummmm, no. I don't think anybody will come close to that distance w/ a 119g model Frisbee. It'll be fun watching the big arms try though... pretty sure they'll just overpower them and not get the glide needed for that kind of distance.

Ken described that day to me many years ago while we were in Berkley. At the time, he said there were hundreds of spectators along the main campus "hangout" area there watching. Almost all the players were tossing their shots in the 300' to 350' range when he hit one that lifted in the same area the others were falling and then as it slowed down it again lifted & carried even further w/ one more lift near the end of its flight. The people watching were screaming & cheering this flight that went almost twice as far as the other throws.

Simply amazing.

[davei]

Originally Posted by rizbee

Very cool idea!!

Based on the size of the disc in Ken's hand in that picture, I think it may be a 141g (50-mold). Tom "drdisc" Monroe was another big sidearm thrower from that era, and I think the larger-diameter 50-mold or 60-mold (Super Pro) discs were preferred by many sidearmers. Better off-axis torque protection, perhaps?

Please, please, please get some video of this!!!!!!!!!

I would be very surprised if our top players today could throw any of these package discs 350ft without a lot of wind helping. A sidearm throw would be even more unbelievable. It takes a lot of really clean snap to make these discs go far.

[John Hernlund]

Originally Posted by davei

I would be very surprised if our top players today could throw any of these package discs 350ft without a lot of wind helping. A sidearm throw would be even more unbelievable. It takes a lot of really clean snap to make these discs go far.

Many others are inclined to agree with you. It's not that they don't think it is possible for today's throwers to break 350' with a 119, it is simply a matter of familiarity with these kinds of discs, and being practiced enough in exploiting their glide to get them out that far.

I made a small wager with Tom Schot that Avery would break 350 ft, but even Avery seems skeptical. Just have to hope for good winds!