Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[wzink]

Dave, which of the Innova distance drivers have the smallest rim? I'm talking about the size of the rim measured from the outside of the disc toward the center, not the height from top to bottom. I would like to get more distance, but the big rims just don't fit my small hands. Right now I throw Eagles and Teebirds.

[davei]

Originally Posted by wzink

Dave, which of the Innova distance drivers have the smallest rim? I'm talking about the size of the rim measured from the outside of the disc toward the center, not the height from top to bottom. I would like to get more distance, but the big rims just don't fit my small hands. Right now I throw Eagles and Teebirds.

Viking, Valkyrie, Sidewinder, and Roadrunner have the smallest rims of the distance driver catagory. The next step up would be Starfire, Orc, Beast

[futurecollisions]

Dave,

Any chance the pig will be made in the original plastic again (jk pro type)?

Thanks

[davei]

Originally Posted by futurecollisions

Dave,

Any chance the pig will be made in the original plastic again (jk pro type)?

Thanks

Yes.

[Martin_Bohn]

Originally Posted by pterodactyl

Just picked up a Boss, Wraith, and Katana in blizzard material. Can't wait to give them some test flights this afternoon after work.

your gonna like the boss. i just played some rounds with one and stability is excellent. extra 20-40 feet in distance, as long as its not into a strong headwind. like to hear your take on it...

[pterodactyl]

Originally Posted by Martin_Bohn

your gonna like the boss. i just played some rounds with one and stability is excellent. extra 20-40 feet in distance, as long as its not into a strong headwind. like to hear your take on it...

Blizzard Plastique Critique:

The Boss: Ya, it's 155 grams, but it's definitely Boss quality. Has all of the charactaristics of a heavy Boss, only easier to throw. I just haven't used it that much yet.

The Wraith: 150 grammer throws exactly like it's heavier version.

The Katana: 150 grams of heaven. I can crush this thing. I can turn it over with ease and accuracy and I can bomb it with a lot of hyzer. Love it, Dave!

The end skip is a little different from the heavy counterparts. When these light discs hit the ground, they skid and slither before coming to a halt.

These new discs are impressive and will help in the longevity of my arm/shoulder.

[davei]

Thanks Kenny.

[vonDrehle]

Hey,
When did they start putting the www.innovadiscs.com tooling on the disc? I'm trying to figure out the age of a disc, Beadless Aviar to be specific.

Thanks

[davei]

Originally Posted by vonDrehle

Hey,
When did they start putting the www.innovadiscs.com tooling on the disc? I'm trying to figure out the age of a disc, Beadless Aviar to be specific.

Thanks

That was relatively recently. Older Aviars were labeled San Marino. Two sizes of font, small size first.

[vonDrehle]

Thanks that's what I was thinking. Good thing the seller takes returns :/...

[sprdgr]

Hey Dave,

Are the new, what are being billed as Champion "King" Cobras any different than the new run of Champion Cobras that the Factory store released a few months ago? If so, how?

Thanks

Mike

[fmags87]

Will the blizzards be legal to use I'n all Pdga sanctioned events or will they start having there own class of tourney play just need to know as far as whether or not I will run into these and not have or need to have that kind of advantage

[davei]

Originally Posted by sprdgr

Hey Dave,

Are the new, what are being billed as Champion "King" Cobras any different than the new run of Champion Cobras that the Factory store released a few months ago? If so, how?

Thanks

Mike

I think they might be. I am not familiar with the flight of the original run, but the stock run is very beefy in terms of stability. It is more like a faster Roc than a Cobra. The same is the Case for the Super Stingray. The Super Stingray is a fairly straight flier rather than a turning machine. The rim is a little beefier on both too.

[davei]

Originally Posted by fmags87

Will the blizzards be legal to use I'n all Pdga sanctioned events or will they start having there own class of tourney play just need to know as far as whether or not I will run into these and not have or need to have that kind of advantage

Blizzard weight discs are legal in any PDGA tourney. It's only max weight that might not be legal in lower weight class tourneys like 150 class or Japan Open class.

[fmags87]

to be honest wont the blizzard weighted discs take some of the fun and challenge of an event then. im not talking them down please dont assume that just trying to understand them a little better. i mean here u have the guys who have mastered the long flights of these discs over the course of time and perserverance, then i step up to the pad my first day and get the same d as them with a blizzard. eqality? and again im just trying to get the just on these is all. personally i am taking it as technology at its finest.

[redsoxfan74]

to be honest wont the blizzard weighted discs take some of the fun and challenge of an event then. im not talking them down please dont assume that just trying to understand them a little better. i mean here u have the guys who have mastered the long flights of these discs over the course of time and perserverance, then i step up to the pad my first day and get the same d as them with a blizzard. eqality? and again im just trying to get the just on these is all. personally i am taking it as technology at its finest.




I think this same idea is brought up in the eveloution of any sport. Look at all the advancements in sports equipment these days. Just a quick progression in ball golf. Wood drivers to metal drivers, regular head to oversized, aluminum shafts to graphite shafts.

[fmags87]

Thank u sox fan for the understanding perfect analogy definentally made me look at it another way thank god for disc golf community lol. And again thank u dave for your intellectual thinking into disc golf press on fellow throwers hahaha

[davei]

Originally Posted by fmags87

to be honest wont the blizzard weighted discs take some of the fun and challenge of an event then. im not talking them down please dont assume that just trying to understand them a little better. i mean here u have the guys who have mastered the long flights of these discs over the course of time and perserverance, then i step up to the pad my first day and get the same d as them with a blizzard. eqality? and again im just trying to get the just on these is all. personally i am taking it as technology at its finest.

Everyone, including the masters of the long throws can get more distance. The challenge of accuracy still remains.

[davei]

I think the Blizzard technology is very similar to the original Eagle/Aero technology. Many people, at the time, were either uncertain or downright certain that it would ruin disc golf. While I can't deny that it changed disc golf somewhat, I believed then and now that the distance enhancing technology was and still is essential to the growth and enjoyment of disc golf.

While many shorter courses were made irrelevant to the minority of players who had the power to conquer them, many other players were empowered to drive and make birdies for the first time. I think that is important. It broadens the fun factor for a broader range of players. It also broadens the disc golf constituency/political power necessary to sway city and county planners. I think this is very important.

Yes, it made course installation in smaller areas more of a challenge, but it also provided some impetus for longer and more spectacular courses. There was much fear that we would not be able to secure venues for these larger courses. That did not prove to be the case then, nor do I believe that now.

Spectacular, is a word to remember, I think. Only when we have spectacular courses and spectacular throws on those courses, will we have much outside sponsor interest. Spectacular brings spectators. Spectators brings sponsor interest. At least that is how I see it.

[fmags87]

words of wisdom from a wise man. thank u then and thank u now dave

[davei]

So far, I can only see three disadvantages and at least four advantages. The disadvantages are: they don't penetrate leaves and other foliage as well, they don't forgive poor throwing (flutter) as well, they may not be as good in the wind, (although this has not been shown yet). So far, any wind disadvantage seems to be tied to flutter. And, also tied to flutter is that they don't work as well for side arms because it is too easy to flutter.

The advantages I see are: they are much easier to whip, they carry farther, they make my bag lighter when I have several, they do well with hitting trees as they don't seem to taco as much, they seem to have a little less low speed overstability. Subjectively, they are more fun and I don't seem to get as tired.
__________________

I posted the above a couple of months ago, but think it needs a little explanation.
Disadvantages:
1. They don't penetrate leaves and other foliage as well.
This is from empirical testing, but is almost certainly due to the lighter kinetic energy and has been known for a long time with other light weight discs compared to heavy over 30 yrs. This also means they will do less damage as opposed to the speculated more damage with higher launch speeds. While initial launch speeds may be higher, they do slow down more rapidly also.

1a. Will stick in trees more easily. Simply due to more weight.

2. They don't forgive poor throwing (flutter aka off axis torque). This again is simply due to less weight and not, to any great extent, the bubble distribution. All lighter discs have less torque resistance.

3. Wind disadvantage is the same for Blizzard as it is for any other light discs. This is somewhat offset for some Blizzard models that are very stable in light weights.

4. Control and reliability. This is due to the confluence of small throwing errors and wind influence. Each is magnified somewhat as there is less mass and centrifugal dampening.

Advantages:

1. Easier to whip. Again simply due to the lighter weight and not the bubbles.

2. Carry further. Same reason. Less mass equals more glide time.

3. Less course damage. Two reasons, I believe, are less mass and a slightly softer spongy rim.

4. Less tacoing of the discs. Subjective at this point, but may become fact.

5. More fun. Subjective

6. Lighter bag when using all blizzard drivers, which I do.

7. Less arm tiredness after throwing two rounds of multiple drives.

8. Less stress on my muscles especially noted on sidearms. (although sidearm throws take more care to avoid flutter)

9. More distance, more easily. For golf this is due mainly to increased glide. For distance throwing this is due to higher initial launch speed to get up to cruising altitude, followed by longer glide time.

The main advantage of the Blizzard discs, as opposed to any other lightweight discs, at this point, is durability.

[mf100forever]

Dave, saw some King Cobras on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=....c0.m270.l1313
What is the difference between these and the "regular" Cobras?

[davei]

Originally Posted by mf100forever

Dave, saw some King Cobras on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=....c0.m270.l1313
What is the difference between these and the "regular" Cobras?

The regular Cobras are made from the San Marion mold which is domier and has more turn and a slightly smaller rim.

The King Cobra is made from the Ontario flat top mold. When made in Champion plastic it has a low profile Roc look and flies like a Roc.

[AviarX]

Hi Dave, and congrats on the blizzard plastic. Sorry if this is covered upthread, but I have a lot of catching up to do here... I have yet to see a Blizzard in person, how is the grippiness? Is it possible to blizzard-ize both Star and Champion?

thanks again for creating the Destroyer -- was that really 5 years ago?

[davei]

Originally Posted by AviarX

Hi Dave, and congrats on the blizzard plastic. Sorry if this is covered upthread, but I have a lot of catching up to do here... I have yet to see a Blizzard in person, how is the grippiness? Is it possible to blizzard-ize both Star and Champion?

thanks again for creating the Destroyer -- was that really 5 years ago?

Hi Rob,
The grippiness is about the same as regular Champion. It is possible to blizzardize both Star and Champion. As a matter of fact, we did a similar process two years ago with Starlite. At that time, and with that process we got limited results. That process only reduced the weight by 3 or 4 grams and tended to make the discs much more over stable. We didn't feel this would be appropriate for general production. The new Blizzard discs tend to fly the same as their heavier counterparts, especially in the mid to high fifties. The lower weight are a little less stable.

Ps. Nice to hear from you. We finally filled that position we offered you a few years ago. I hope you're doing well.

[AviarX]

Dave is the TeeDevil's relation to the Destroyer the same as the TL's relation to the TeeBird? If so I will have to get some...

I regret I had not the resources to move out there and take that position -- thanks for offering me it. If you ever have a job I can do from here at home, don't hesitate to let me know ... For example if you want to write a book about your life, and you feel like you need one -- I can be your ghost writer

[davei]

Originally Posted by AviarX

Dave is the TeeDevil's relation to the Destroyer the same as the TL's relation to the TeeBird? If so I will have to get some...

I regret I had not the resources to move out there and take that position -- thanks for offering me it. If you ever have a job I can do from here at home, don't hesitate to let me know ... For example if you want to write a book about your life, and you feel like you need one -- I can be your ghost writer

No, the TeeDevil is not the same analogy other than the less high speed stable part. It has just as much low speed over-stability.

[hueyman2]

Originally Posted by fmags87

to be honest wont the blizzard weighted discs take some of the fun and challenge of an event then. im not talking them down please dont assume that just trying to understand them a little better. i mean here u have the guys who have mastered the long flights of these discs over the course of time and perserverance, then i step up to the pad my first day and get the same d as them with a blizzard. eqality? and again im just trying to get the just on these is all. personally i am taking it as technology at its finest.

Play in North Carolina and see how much advantage blizzard discs give you.

[atreau3]

Originally Posted by hueyman2

Play in North Carolina and see how much advantage blizzard discs give you.

Constructive

[AviarX]

Dave,

I know self caught flight discs are not in high demand, but wouldn't the Blizzard technology be superb for an MTA disc? I still am trying to get a Pebble, how about a Blizzard version? Lynx? Condor? Or would the Blizzard technology make other molds MTA friendly? Maybe that 198X world record can finally fall? what are your thoughts on this?