Ask Chuck Kennedy

[JenniferB]

I'd like to request a clarification about players competing in points series who go up in rating during the series to a degree that they would appear no longer to be eligible to play the division in which thay have points in the series.

2.2 Exceptions
A. Players are allowed to enter a ratings based division they would otherwise be ineligible to participate only under the following circumstances

...

(3) If competing in an applicable points series (see Section 2.2 B for specifics)

B. Players may be allowed to enter a ratings based division they would otherwise be ineligible to participate in as part of a points Series provided that

(1) The Series Director has contacted the PDGA prior and received approval from the PDGA Tour Manager.

(2) The Series allows players to stay in the division for the entire Series.

(3) The player has not competed in a higher division at any time during the Series.

(4) The player’s rating does not exceed 20 points above the rating ceiling for the division they wish to compete in.

I have points in int women in a series, and I just played a tournament that was not part of the series in which I played rec men. Is rec men considered a "higher division" than int women? Does playing a higher division in a tournament that is not part of the Series count for competing in a higher division "during the Series" if it occurred after the first series event and before the final series event?

Does the TD have to advertise before the start of the series that players can stay in the same division, or can it be decided later, such as during the series? Does the Tour Manager have to approve before the series or before the event in which the player continues to participate in the "lower division?"

[cgkdisc]

Looks like your email to the Tour Director is in order.

[JenniferB]

In a recent tournament, three ladies and the juniors were instructed to tee off from a drop zone on one hole having a largish kind of forced water carry. We thought for sure these players would get no ratings, but the unofficial ratings are up. TD said that the info about the different layout was included in the report, and it wouldn't affect the ratings. How does that work?

[cgkdisc]

Unofficial ratings are not connected to official ratings. If you see unofficial ratings there either were at least five propagators among the juniors and women playing that layout or the online course assignments were not done properly by the TD such that they were rated on the regular layout. That doesn't mean the official ratings will be done incorrectly at PDGA HQ.

[Big Easy]

Chuck,
On Oct 14 @ the Lodge in Pawhuska I competed in the
Dynamic Discs One Round Challenge @ the Lodge, Blue Tees
Preliminary rating showed 1020 plus, would like to have that one on the books,
My results show cash and points but the round is missing from the ratings."
Why would that be ???
Thanks
Kennith Dale Patterson
PDGA # 4121

[cgkdisc]

Not sure. You should have them so I'm having Roger check it out.

[Big Easy]

Great...
Thanks for the followup !!!

[cgkdisc]

That report was just received yesterday and the official results with points and cash got posted. But official ratings can't be done until the final yearend update in late January. The report had to be received by Dec 6th to have made it in the ratings update posted on Monday.

[Big Easy]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

That report was just received yesterday and the official results with points and cash got posted. But official ratings can't be done until the final yearend update in late January. The report had to be received by Dec 6th to have made it in the ratings update posted on Monday.

Mucho Thanks CK

Have a Great Christmas

[bruce_brakel]

Will new World Rankings be out soon?

[cgkdisc]

Jan 2nd

[quickdisc]

I pre-ordered the 2011 Worlds DVD and I can not get a answer of when it will be shipped.

PDGA says Dec.11 ?

[bruce_brakel]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

Jan 2nd

Kelsey is up to 928 so I'm hoping she makes the top 20, but she always gets punished for not playing the Majors.

[cgkdisc]

Originally Posted by quickdisc

I pre-ordered the 2011 Worlds DVD and I can not get a answer of when it will be shipped.

PDGA says Dec.11 ?

Don't know. I wasn't involved with the DVD.

[JenniferB]

Regarding am women going pro, it appears that there are provisions in the rules to allow pro men to play men's advanced masters or men's advanced grandmasters, but no provisions to allow pro women to play women's advanced masters or women's advanced grandmasters, etc.

Is that correct?

A. Pros rated less than 970 may now compete in Amateur divisions offered at PDGA A, B, and C Tier events, for which they qualify based on player rating, age, and sex.

(1) Pro Men and Women
< 970 can play Advanced (MA1)
< 935 can play Intermediate (MA2)
< 900 can play Recreational (MA3)
< 850 can play Novice (MA4)

< 935 can also play Advanced Master (MM1) if they are of Masters age
< 900 can also play Advanced Grandmaster (MG1) if they are of Grandmasters age

(2) Pro Women only
< 850 can play Advanced Women (FW1)
< 800 can play Intermediate Women (FW2)
< 750 can play Recreational Women (FW3)

B. Players are awarded Amateur points for their performance but these points are not eligible for year-end awards or Worlds invitations.

[cgkdisc]

That's correct. Two reasons: (1) probably never requested due to lack of these older women's am divisions existing at non-majors and (2) the older men's am divisions are unisex and could include older women pros below the proper rating.

[JenniferB]

Also, we have am men's divisions available to us.

Still, a men's advanced masters player can play pro masters and take cash and still play am masters if their rating is below 935. Yet, a women's advanced master's player is faced with a different choice if she ever plays women's pro masters. Her rating can never be low enough to automatically allow her to play am in a gender and age protected division again. She must go through the process of getting reclassified.

Note that the current women's pro masters champion is rated below 935. Thus, the ability of a pro masters woman to play men's am masters division offers little over her ability to play men's intermediate division.

[cgkdisc]

All division rules have been established over the years based on sufficient numbers of players wishing to have the options. I doubt there are enough women in those circumstances yet to initiate new rules since the am (unisex) divisions are available. You can always submit a request to Sweeton at PDGA HQ to consider a change.

[JenniferB]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

All division rules have been established over the years based on sufficient numbers of players wishing to have the options. I doubt there are enough women in those circumstances yet to initiate new rules since the am (unisex) divisions are available. You can always submit a request to Sweeton at PDGA HQ to consider a change.

I did not submit such a request, so this comes as a surprise :

A summary of changes for this year include:

* The standardization of Female Amateur division codes from FW to FA (FA1, FA2, FA3)

* The addition of a men’s senior division - Pro Grand Legend (MPR) – 80+ during the calendar year

* Addition to PROS PLAYING AM to include the Advanced Master Women’s division

* Clarification that Minimum Added Cash means “Minimum Added Cash to Pro Purse” with
the added caveat that if less than 20 Pros attend the event, the TD has the option to
only add the “Per Pro Minimum Added $” (1/20th) times the number of Pro Players
in attendance to the Pro Purse.

* Increase of SuperTour (A-Tier) “Minimum Added $ to Pro Purse” from $1500 to $1800.

Any idea what the rating will be set at for playing am? I noticed the pro men's rating has to be uner 935 (Int rated) to play advanced masters. If the pro women's rating has to be 800 (Int rated) to play women's advanced masters, I doubt anyone will qualify. 935 is about 100 points below the top rated male pros, while 800 is 150+ points below the top rated female pros. Maybe 850 then?

[cgkdisc]

Women's Am division breaks are 50 points below the equivalent for Men's Am divisions primarily due to the lack of women between 850 and 899 to have even 2-player Advanced divisions in many places. So the Adv/Int break was set at 800. Advanced women should probably be about 850 as you point out rather than 800. But it looks like below 800 was set for the crossover point for Pro Master Women to enter Intermediate Am Women so it was consistent with the crossover point for Pro Master Men to enter Am.

I had forgotten that the Pro Master Women playing Am was added this year. Apparently, some Pro Master Women may have contacted PDGA HQ to request the option to parallel that for Pro Men.

[underparmike]

Yo Chuck what would you suggest for rubber tee pads these days?

Price isn't all that important, safety is very important. We need something that will provide a safe tee even in heavy Louisiana rain.

Any info you can share will help. Thanks

[cgkdisc]

Yo Mike,

I've never gotten rubber pads and am not sure if there's an alternative to the Fly Pads from Fly18. Disc Concepts in S. Carolina was doing pads for a while so you might want to check that out. I know some people have tried the mats they use for cows but you need to find a supplier who will get you a roll because the regular size for those is something like 4x6 and you have to put two together to make a 4x12 pad which can cause a gap once the ground gets less level underneath after working them in.

Innova was doing pads for a while but then Russell was testing some new plastic grid pads. You might want to check what they're up to.

[jmonny]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

Innova was doing pads for a while but then Russell was testing some new plastic grid pads. You might want to check what they're up to.

Russel's honeycomb mats are working well here on the sandy soil of eastern NC. They have been on the Kure Beach course for a year & a new area course is supposed to use them as well. They require more maintenence because the sand pushes around so much but they are safe and functional IMO.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course....jpg?rand=1883

[underparmike]

Any idea on the price of the honeycombs?

[jmonny]

Originally Posted by underparmike

Any idea on the price of the honeycombs?

No idea. I would contact Innova for details on availability.

[ERicJ]

Chuck, the homepage article for the Jan 24 Ratings update says:

The next update to the PDGA Player Ratings will take place on January 24, 2012. The deadline for submissions for events to be included will be Tuesday January 10th.

Does that mean it will include events from the first week of 2012? Or is this a 2011 year-end update only?

[cgkdisc]

Yearend update only. Apparently the PDGA office still has 11 events outstanding where reports have not yet been received from 2011. These did not make it in the ratings update being posted next week. So we'll have to have a final yearend update in early February to hopefully get those final 11 reports from 2011 rated.

First update that will include any 2012 events will be late March as usual.

[bazkitcase5]

I know this is old, but I still do not like the lack of ratings for the 2011 USDGC. I feel like the players who went and played with the expectations of getting ratings based on their actual play of the stipulated course, before the performance scoring was applied, should be not be robbed.

I read the article and it is completely understandable if you want to make these special conditions for future events, but throwing out results that have already been completed by participants who were expecting ratings while playing their rounds is not fair in my opinion.

[cgkdisc]

It's more unfair to incorporate four flawed round ratings in 120 players' ratings don't you think? Those flawed values then get propagated all over the world. The ratings system relies on the players themselves to be the "measuring sticks" to help produce ratings for every sanctioned round. Anything we can do to only use the best information for ratings helps everyone, not just the players at each event.

[ishkatbible]

is there a reason this event isn't included in our ratings?

http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/64550/Open

it has been official since late december and is on our player profile pages.