2011 Discraft Ace Race @ Knob Hill - 10/16

[mprestop]

If you haven't yet heard, the 2011 Discraft Ace Race (Pittsburgh edition) will take place at Knob Hill on Sunday, October 16th at 10AM. Pre-Registration is required for participation in this event. The cost is $25 cash/check or $30 PFDS Disc Credit.

The Tournament Director for this event will be Dave Muchicko - david.muchicko@hotmail.com. You can submit a cash payment along with the registration form to either Dave or Mark Prestopnik. If you would like to use disc credit, submit the registration form to Dave or Mark and indicate this payment option on the form.

If you would like to pay via check, please send payment along with the registration form to:

Mark Prestopnik
125 Southern Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15211

Link to registration form: http://discgolfacerace.com/downloads/2011reg.pdf
Learn more about the Ace Race: http://discgolfacerace.com/index.html
Any questions contact: Dave Muchicko - david.muchicko@hotmail.com

[mprestop]

Folks, you have less than 10 days to pre-register for the 2011 Discraft Ace Race (Pittsburgh edition). THE REGISTRATION DEADLINE IS THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 29!

The Ace Race will take place at Knob Hill on Sunday, October 16th at 10AM. Pre-Registration is required for participation in this event. There will be no entry the day of the event, and the club will not re-order discs. You may not purchase or use discs from an event competitor - YOU MUST PRE-REGISTER...simply no exceptions.

The cost is $25 cash/check or $30 PFDS Disc Credit.

The Tournament Director for this event will be Dave Muchicko - david.muchicko@hotmail.com. You can submit a cash payment along with the registration form to either Dave or Mark Prestopnik. If you would like to use disc credit, submit the registration form to Dave or Mark and indicate this payment option on the form.

If you would like to pay via check, please send payment along with the registration form to:

Mark Prestopnik
125 Southern Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15211

Link to registration form: http://discgolfacerace.com/downloads/2011reg.pdf
Learn more about the Ace Race: http://discgolfacerace.com/index.html
Any questions contact: Dave Muchicko - david.muchicko@hotmail.com

[SCOTT]

Red tees or will the tees be flagged?

[mprestop]

I would imagine the tees will be red, but I'll have to plan with the "tournament director". Are you guys planning on leaving the pins all in the a's throughout the end of the season?

[gotcha]

This is going to be the best Ace Race of all time!

[SCOTT]

Yes everything was moved to " A pins" for the ace race and glow golf. Unless someone feels like moving them, they won't likely move till spring. Works for me. I get some lunchbreak golf in and easily stay in the 40s.

[mprestop]

Hello Everyone - Registration has closed for the ace race and the player packs have been ordered. We ordered 3 extra player packs, so the first 3 people to step forward and let me know that they are interested (and that they will put payment in the mail ASAP) will be able to get one of the last spots.

mprestopnik@hotmail.com

we'll have a field of 40 participants this year. A great number considering the doubt that some had concerning the viability of this year's event.

[gotcha]

This is going to be the best Ace Race of all time!

[mprestop]

Jerry next year you can run it and decide how to do it. Then you'll see just what a hassle all of it entails.

-mark

[mprestop]

Originally Posted by gotcha

It's a shame you're not allowing walk-ups to play the event as the solution is simple:

Also, having run such an event before, I'll explain why each of these don't work.

* Let walk-ups use a disc from someone who pre-registered for the event.

-players were given months to pre-register. Signs posted at courses, email threads, facebook, pdga board. EVERYONE IN THE DISC GOLF COMMUNITY KNOWS ABOUT THE ACE RACE. Follow the rules like with every other tournament. Players showing up the day of the event should not get to participate without paying the entry fee. Not fair to those who paid.

* Order packages for all the walk-ups after the tournament has concluded.

You can only re-order a minimum of 10 packs. Last year we had to order 10 full packs for the 2 walks up that forced their way into the event. Then I was stuck trying to sell 8 ace race packs for months after the event. Trust me, the dicscs aren't very popular when the market is already flooded with the disc. AGAIN - FOLLOW THE RULES, sign up ahead of time and you don't need to walk up.

* When packages arrive, give the walk-ups their items less one disc.
-see above why it is not a good idea to re-order, and the problems that come with reordering packs. Also see above with following tournament rules.

* Give the one disc to the person who graciously let someone play the day of the event.
-see above with the minimum ordering of 10 player packs.

Not everyone reads disc golf message boards or visits the PFDS web site. I guarantee there will be walk-ups the day of the event who had no idea of the pre-registration cut-off. Hopefully, those people turned away will be league players or club members and not somebody relatively new to the sport who might be trying organized disc golf for the first time.

-MEH - I highly doubt there will be anyone who knows about the ace race, but doesn't know of the cutoff date. It is has been clearly communicated in multiple venues and formats. And last year, the only walk-ups were PFDS regulars who knew that they could buck the system.

Your argument against a deadline is full of holes. Also, 40 is a great amount of participants. Everyone had over a month to sign up. I have no sympathy for anyone who is turned away. The criticism of events, and event formats is becoming old. For those of you in the club, especially those that run events know, it takes a lot of time, energy, and dedication to put on event. Try being supportive rather than critical, and maybe less of our volunteers will burn out, and more people will be willing to step up to run events.

-mark

[gotcha]

This is going to be the best Ace Race of all time!

[mprestop]

One has to live in a cave not to have heard about the Ace Race or that the deadline was approaching. Jim Wilson evidently was awakened from his haze and did contact Dave and I to let us know that he was interested in registering. Then, I held his spot and ordered a player pack for him assuming that his payment is coming. I also did this for EVERY OTHER PERSON WHO CONTACTED ME OR DAVE TO LET US KNOW THAT THEY WERE INTERESTED prior to the deadline, and even 3 people after the deadline. At some point the hemming and hawing must stop, and people have to make a decision on whether they wish to participate or not.

I'm actually quite offended by your implication that I am turning away interested individuals, or somehow pushing away new disc golfers from participation in the sport. I am one of the most approachable disc golfers to new players, and make a point of it to talk to and disc golf with every new player at Schenley League (the league and course that brings in the most new players).

-mark

[SCOTT]

Now you guys have done it. I have read enough of this to feel I need to say something.
To be honest, you’re both right on many points. Due to the way the Ace race works preregistration is a must. All we can do is our best to get the word out there. The preorder is a nightmare. You have to try to guess exactly how many people will come. Then if it rains and no one shows you’re stuck with a pile of merch and a deficit. Letting a player borrow then tying up the loose strings later is too hard. I still have umbrellas for a couple people that I just cannot seem to connect with. Doing a follow up order is risky considering you must order 10 player packs at a time. What if you only go over by 1 person. Then you’re stuck ordering 10 with 9 left over to try to move. We should have been bringing up the Ace Race and the deadline details at all monthlies, leagues, or whatever. It is true.. of all the disc golfers I talk to about 25% have no interest in getting online. Jim Wilson who thankfully took over running the doubles league for me at Moraine, should have known this. The TD of the Ace Race should have given him that info to announce along with anyone else that runs leagues, tourneys, etc. Yes we did do a good job of getting the word out but we can always do more. This forum is no place for personal attacks. It creates a bad image for our club, so cut it out. Private message or email it. In Jerry’s defense; when I first showed up on the disc golf scene by myself at Knob Hill Doubles (the league that brings in many new players also) knowing nobody there. Jerry was the first person to come talk to me while I was trying to practice my putt. Oddly enough he ended up with me as a partner and I had only played about 2 rounds of disc golf at that point. I was horrible and he was encouraging. Over the past couple years I have played many rounds with Jerry, out at moraine he talks and promotes the club and sport to everyone he sees there. To the point that it annoys me since I just want to get on with the hole. You both do the club and sport a great service and are a tremendous asset. My point... Let it be, nothing is perfect.... Except the stuff I do

[gotcha]

This is going to be the best Ace Race of all time!

[sandalbagger]

I would do what Jerry said. Perhaps it will not be a problem. But I imagine there are hundreds of players who have seen the flyer at Knob who may know nothing about the PFDS or the messageboards.

Lori and I might show up, and we are not registered. We will just borrow someone elses disc and play for fun.

No one is right or wrong. But instead of turning people away, why not make it so they can play. And Jerry's idea was the correct way to do it. The way we have done it before. Extra packages are not a huge deal. Some of these old packs sell for decent money on ebay.

But as for this year, I had my reasons for not wanting to sign up early.

But YES there are many people who do not read the messageboard or get emails from the club. It just seems rude to tell people that they cannot play, when the fliers at the course don't say anything about not being able to play if you do not pre-reg.

Ya'll have fun.

[sandalbagger]

And did you get a package for William Graves. He sent a check the day of the deadline? Just curious.

[sandalbagger]

Pins will be moved as soon as the Knob Hill Doubles League is over

[mprestop]

This just in...we had some participants who asked me to reserve a spot for them who canceled, so there are 3 player packs available. Again, it will be first come first serve and I will lock those spots up for you. Thankfully I did not order 10 more player packs or PFDS might have to take out a loan for the player packs.

From here on out though, I have two pieces of advice to everyone on this board before they bring up their criticism of events. If you don't like the way an event is set up either...

1. Don't play
2. Run it yourself next year...and brace yourself for a mountain of criticism

I will not be running an ace race next year or helping anyone out with it, due to all the negativity. And if we end up not having an ace race, you can all cry about the players who didn't get to play disc golf.

[gotcha]

This is going to be the best Ace Race of all time!

[tistoude]

Looks like this will be pretty typical Pittsburgh event. Criticism before the event, probably criticism after the event, and the TD/Organizers not wanting to run it the next year.

[gotcha]

A mountain of criticism? Hardly....

To set the record straight, I was not criticizing anybody. I was simply offering a solution to avoid walk-ups being turned away from the event. The Ace Race is a lot of fun and I know it would suck to be turned away from this event because 1) there is no registration deadline published on the promotional poster and 2) not everyone is on Facebook, the PFDS web site or this little used message forum on the PDGA site. If I was a newbie who saw the poster and thought "wow...this looks fun....let me jot the date down on my iPhone", I wouldn't give it a second thought until I showed up at Knob on Sunday morning to find out I was not allowed to play because I needed to pre-register for the event by Sept 29. Again, nowhere is it written on the Ace Race posters that preregistration was required. The only thing written on the poster is the date, Chico's name, phone # and email address. Why would I have called or emailed Chico if the information did not say I needed to pre-register for the event?

So what if the club ends up with left-over Ace Race packages? Being that a bag is included this time, I think the club will have no problem moving these packages. Besides, we have given away Ace Race items as CTP prizes during some of our course championships the past couple of years. The important thing is we (the PFDS) did not turn away anybody from the event. In my opinion, that's waaaaay more important than the club having left-over Ace Race packages. And on this note, I will counter Scartle's comment up thread that reads:

"Letting a player borrow then tying up the loose strings later is too hard. I still have umbrellas for a couple people that I just cannot seem to connect with."

Is it too hard? Really? The walk-ups for the Ace Race will pay the full registration fee that day. We got their moo la. And the folks who will give one of their discs to a walk-up will be local/league players and we know where to find these people....at our local leagues. And this idea is much different than someone who says "I'll take an umbrella", but doesn't pay for it in advance. For the Ace Race, we will have their cash in hand. It is possible that it might take a bit of time to hook up Ace Race packages/discs with select individuals, but it's also possible every single one of those packages/discs will be connected to their rightful owners during the Hunt. It's also possible that there will be no walk-ups the day of the Ace Race.

I'll say it again....

Hopefully, those people turned away will be league players or club members and not somebody relatively new to the sport who might be trying organized disc golf for the first time.

[SCOTT]

Ok gooch. Does that mean if chicko goes that route you volunteer to tie up all the loose ends? The umbrellas and other items i refer to were paid for. Usually with club credit. Its a pain. I actually have an archon for you in the vehicle. Even saw you this weekend and still forgot. I agree that it sucks to turn people away. That is the choice of the TD though. Its just throwing discs in the park anyhow. Who really cares. I won't be there and honestly could care less. Everyone is on here arguing about it and the guy running it has said zero. Best ace race ever!

[sandalbagger]

I really don't think what Jerry said was disrespectful. He offered a solution for the TD of the event that did not require ordering more packages before the event, and a solution that would allow people to play that signed up the day of the event. The only downfall of the idea is that it would be harder to get the 2nd disc to the guy who loaned one away, and maybe would be hard to get the full package to the player who was a walk-up entry.

But I think those things could be easily overcome.

I agree it is Muchicko and Mark's event and they can do as they wish. But I think that it would be beneficial to all to allow walk-ups who have not signed up prior to the event to be able to play in the event.

Don't really think anyone was being rude or disrespectful.

I hope that the acre race continues with people picking their own groups up to 20 people in size and that the event stays informal. And I hope everyone who wants to play gets to. Lori and I will be in Virginia that weekend. HAVE FUN.

[sandalbagger]

And for clarification, the pins will be moved at Knob Hill after doubles league is over AT THE END OF OCTOBER.

[mprestop]

The poster at Schenley has had the registration deadline on it since it was posted. If the Knob Hill and Moraine Posters do not have it on it, then that's an oversight of mine and Dave's but I had thought it was posted that pre-registration is required - shoot me for that mistake. The PFDO website had incorrect tee assignments posted on it, up to the day of the event. Surely not the first mistake on PFDS communication, and certainly not the last.

That said, it's pretty presumptuous of someone to assume they can just show up to an event and be allowed to participate. Think about, what types of events can you just show up to and partake? A 10K road race? hardly. Do you go to a football game and expect a ticket reserved for you? No you don't. There's a little bit of due diligence expected of the consumer. I really think that you are trying to invent a problem that isn't even there. And yeah, if someone shows up thinking that they could participate and we have to turn them away, that is too bad. But really, how difficult is it for someone to take a little initiative. I know disc golf is a silly game we all play, and we act like a bunch of goofballs walking around in the woods like peter pan, but come on. If you're not familiar with the way an event is run, you ask, or you could lose out. This is a fact of life, everyone else is not there to look out for you.

To Jerry: Offering up suggestions AFTER the deadline had passed (with a thumbs down vote of dissent) in a forum was not a solution. If you had ideas on how to run the event, the polite and respectful way would have been to send a PERSONAL message to me or Dave Muchicko in advance of the deadline. That way, we could have considered your ideas and then acted accordingly. Rather, you chose to hold your comments until after the deadline, to grandstand and act like a know-it-all. And don't tell me you didn't know about the deadline, because obviously you read all of these discussion posts, and you are on the email list-serv.

As far as leftover ace race packs is concerned. I'll say it again. Last year we had to order 10 extra packs because 2 PFDS regulars forced there way into the event. As far as I know, neither Chris or Jerry has held club stock, so they're not aware of the challenges and how long some stock takes to move. Also, the treasurer Scott Hartle and I agreed that we didn't want to spend club money on extra stock. In the future, maybe Chris and Jerry can work with the person who runs the event, and sell the extra player packs on Ebay or another venue. Just not something we wanted to deal with this time around.

Also, the remaining player packs have been sold, so the field is now closed.

-mark

[gotcha]

This is going to be the best Ace Race of all time!

[gotcha]

Originally Posted by SCOTT

Ok gooch. Does that mean if chicko goes that route you volunteer to tie up all the loose ends?

Yes, I would volunteer to help tie up loose ends. I run this little gig called the Moraine Monthly so I would be happy to collect items and distribute to the players who frequent that event. In fact, earlier this summer our membership director provided me with 2011 PFDS membership cards (and minis) to distribute to our members who play MSP almost exclusively.
Irie, mon...

By the way, I used to carry the club merch, too.....before we had a tzar. I would go as far as placing price tags on the merch so people didn't continually ask me "how much is this disc"?

[SCOTT]

Sounds like a plan. See what you and chicko can work out.

[sandalbagger]

Had 2 kids at Knob yesterday looking at the Ace Race sign. Heard them say "we're definitely doing this"

[mprestop]

Please take down the signs at the courses if you could. This will prove that your intentions are not to stir the pot, but to actually help the club and its members and the events that they run.

Thanks,

Mark