Ask Chuck Kennedy - Page 80

cgkdisc · Dec 08 2010, 03:27 PM

The 10m rule was not created to produce a green but to prevent deadfall putting and leaping slam dunks. The RC still hasn't figured out how to eliminate the 10m line (or pick the distance) without forcing stand & deliver throws everywhere but the tee. That would work but not be popular.

thediscinmusician · Dec 11 2010, 09:47 PM

"or more than 2.5 standard deviations below your rating"

Can you explain that to me...I'm not sure I know what that means. I understand the 100 points below you're rating. Thanks!

cgkdisc · Dec 12 2010, 09:39 AM

Calculate the Standard Deviation (SD) of your round ratings and multiply that by 2.5. If that number is smaller than 100, then rounds rated more than that amount below your average rating will be dropped that update. Your Standard Deviation indicates how consistent you have played - the smaller your SD the more consistent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation

thediscinmusician · Dec 12 2010, 02:03 PM

You'll have to excuse my lack of intelligence. I guess this is the best way to explain, I had an unofficial 844 and a 922 this past weekend? So the difference being 78. Do I need to figure up the average deviation for every tournament for the past year or is it per event?

"then rounds rated more than that amount below your average rating will be dropped that update"

I guess that is what I'm not comprehending? Thanks for the info so far Chuck!

*Note - I went back and figured the difference per each tournament round. So for example I took round 1 and round 2, figured the difference for that tournament and wrote it down. I continued to do that for every tournament. Totaled it up and divided by the amount of tournaments I played in. Came up with the number 45. That's my average standard deviation for the year. So...times 2.5 was 112.5. Where do I go form here?

cgkdisc · Dec 12 2010, 02:52 PM

Unofficial ratings are not used. We calculate your standard deviation using the official round ratings in your most recent update to figure out if any rounds should be excluded/dropped. Here are your rounds that were used to calculate your standard deviation using the formula shown at the Wiki link in my previous post which is the STDEV function in Excel: http://www.pdga.com/player-ratings-d...1954&year=2010

ChrisEads · Dec 13 2010, 10:53 AM

On this latest update I have a tourney on my record that was played November 7th 2009 Why was this not dropped off?
I thought all material had to be turned in on Nov 14th so it shouldnt have been concluded right??

jconnell · Dec 13 2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisEads

On this latest update I have a tourney on my record that was played November 7th 2009 Why was this not dropped off?
I thought all material had to be turned in on Nov 14th so it shouldnt have been concluded right??

The one year back is dated from the most recent tournament included in your rating, not the date of the update. Obviously, your most recent included tournament was played before Nov 7, 2010.

AirMcNair · Dec 13 2010, 03:49 PM

Chuck,

Why hasn't a tourney I played in Oct being used for my rating? It has gone through two updates.

cgkdisc · Dec 13 2010, 04:03 PM

We can't force the TD to turn in the report. But for the last update of the year in January, every TD in the past several years has finally turned in all reports. I think sending the "ghost of tournaments past" to visit their dreams on Christmas eve might have helped...

michaeljo · Dec 13 2010, 10:00 PM

mekes no sense, i go from 8th to out of the top 20 in world rankings!!!!! how after finishing 5th at USDGC and my rating went down a point. just wondering

cgkdisc · Dec 13 2010, 11:42 PM

Look at the story on the home page. A mistake was made in the October rankings which was corrected. You get penaiized for not having another Major, Worlds being second most valuable after USDGC. John E McCray right above you has a similar situation with no Worlds or other Major.

michaeljo · Dec 13 2010, 11:54 PM

ok so you can have have 2 majors and nothing else and that doesnt penalize you at all?

cgkdisc · Dec 14 2010, 12:06 AM

The weighting depends on how many World Ranked players enter a Major. Playing at least four NTs and/or ETs also counts as a Major. Currently, if all someone did was play USDGC and the min NTs there would be no penalty. USDGC and Worlds only would have a slight penalty. This is the World Rankings so the idea is that players actually play against World Ranked players, not just get there based on their rating. But we don't want to exclude top rated players so there are proportional penalties for not playing enough Majors or NTs.

michaeljo · Dec 14 2010, 12:14 AM

so 3 nts and a major, with no worse than a 6th place finish and i get penalized? i'm just trying to sort it out chuck, not trying to jump down your throat or anything. i appreciate what you guys do but you do baffle me on occasions.

cgkdisc · Dec 14 2010, 12:21 AM

The minimum number of NTs and/or ETs to get this counted as a Major is at least 4 for men (3 for women). No credit for just 1, 2 or 3 other than they hopefully help your rating. All of this info has been in the World Ranking section here: http://www.pdga.com/WorldRankings Download the documents and take a look.

bruce_brakel · Dec 14 2010, 10:55 PM

Hey Chuck: As far as you know, ratings limits for the amateur divisions are not changing for 2011?

cgkdisc · Dec 14 2010, 11:20 PM

I know they are not changing.

michaeljo · Dec 15 2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

The minimum number of NTs and/or ETs to get this counted as a Major is at least 4 for men (3 for women). No credit for just 1, 2 or 3 other than they hopefully help your rating. All of this info has been in the World Ranking section here: http://www.pdga.com/WorldRankings Download the documents and take a look.

the no credit for less nt/et events seems like it punishes way too much! should be a sliding scale or something in there, it would still punish those who dont get the min. events and not throw everything out the window

michaeljo · Dec 15 2010, 10:10 AM

either way it works whatever.

cgkdisc · Dec 15 2010, 10:27 AM

The NT/ET factor was added new for 2010 at the request of some top players rather than just use the Memorial results only which was done for 2009. It seemed like 4 NT/ET events was the appropriate minimum for men who were striving for a better World Ranking versus regional pros who might play just a few NTs in their area. And you get to use your best 4 so playing even more might help your ranking. There were 18 NTs/ETs so playing at least 4 is not an unreasonable expectation for a World ranked player and 27 players did that in 2010. Now you know for 2011. Good luck.

throwinROCS · Dec 15 2010, 11:16 AM

Chuck,

Any possibility that the course directory include an Average SSA statistic. I know there would be some logistics to work out such as tournaments playing different layouts. If there were a way for the course contact to submit permanent layout(s) as a standard for that course and then TDs to be able to select one of the "standard" layouts for the course or whether they were using a custom layout when they submit their results and report, that could be a way.

I think it would be really cool for someone to be able to travel somewhere, play a course and be able to get an idea of what that round would have been rated.

cgkdisc · Dec 15 2010, 11:21 AM

The first order of business will be to link the existing SSA data for each course to the directory listing so you can click on the SSA data link when you visit the course in the directory. If you haven't seen it, this is the link to look up every SSA ever produced in the last 10 years ratings were being calculated: http://www.pdga.com/course-ratings-by-course We hope to have that link in place during 2011. Down the road, I hope to have an app where you could enter the layout you plan to use on a course when you look it up and it would produce an estimated SSA for it. This is already being done for the Disc Golf United handicapping system.

evandmckee · Dec 16 2010, 03:04 PM

Cool Link Chuck!!

I noticed under Arkansas, 2 incorrect listings

showing a Moose Pretzel Course out of Homer, Arkansas - this course is in Alaska not Arkansas

also showing Gulley Park (no longer exists from Fayetteville, Arkansas - never had a PDGA event played) with info from a Gulley Park Open out of Ohio

cgkdisc · Dec 16 2010, 04:20 PM

Once the links are made to the Course Directory, then we'll have the ability to go thru and make those corrections. There are many entries in there that are from TDs not entering the proper information or when we were doing course layouts manually for ratings 5 or 6 years ago.

LongNeck · Dec 17 2010, 10:54 PM

Chuck got a quick question,

With the new format change, I was looking at my ratings and I swear my two 808 rated rounds were dropped. When the new format changed it has them counting. I hope they counted in my rating. Did i look at it wrong the first time or not? my rating stayed the same. thanks.

cgkdisc · Dec 17 2010, 11:34 PM

Not sure what you mean by format changed? Do you mean the Oct update versus Dec update? If so, then it's possible rounds that get dropped in one update might be included in the next one if your rating goes down or your standard deviation increases between updates.

LongNeck · Dec 17 2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

Not sure what you mean by format changed? Do you mean the Oct update versus Dec update? If so, then it's possible rounds that get dropped in one update might be included in the next one if your rating goes down or your standard deviation increases between updates.

the format change, all the tournaments look a little different. just go to a tournament anyone and see if they look just a tad bit different. It might just be my computer. I must have looked at it wrong, but I swear i thought they was a no next to them. My rating went up so, that's not the problem.

cgkdisc · Dec 18 2010, 12:11 AM

Ah, I haven't looked until now. Gentry updated the backend of the PDGA website today and some displays have changed somewhat plus there's a new search function to rank people in your state by rating. However, that shouldn't have changed whether a round was included or not. That Yes/No value is assigned in our separate ratings database and those values are directly passed to the PDGA database for display.

SCOTT · Dec 18 2010, 04:45 PM

Got my Christmas gift from Innova for this year, I'm not sure what mold it is. The markings look to be "P-MD2" Looks like some type of mid-range. What is it?

thediscinmusician · Dec 19 2010, 07:27 AM

2 Questions: *You may not be able to help with either but I don't know who else to ask.

1 - On my most recent tournament results, the results themselves show up but usually there is a button that I can click on that says SHOW ROUND RATINGS and that's not showing up. It's from the tournament in Athens, AL on December 18th.

2 - I noticed on my own personal page with my results for the year, that it used to be seperated for each division. For example if I played in Rec it showed those tournaments and if I played in Intermediate it showed those seperate. Now they're all jumbled up together. Do you know if that's just temporary or if they're planning on going back to the way it was. My opinion is I like it the old way! Just my $.02. No sense in fixing something if it ain't broken.

thanks Chuck for whatever info you have. Hope you have a Merry Christmas!

Dec 08 2010, 03:27 PM	#2371
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	The 10m rule was not created to produce a green but to prevent deadfall putting and leaping slam dunks. The RC still hasn't figured out how to eliminate the 10m line (or pick the distance) without forcing stand & deliver throws everywhere but the tee. That would work but not be popular. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 12 2010, 09:39 AM	#2373
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Calculate the Standard Deviation (SD) of your round ratings and multiply that by 2.5. If that number is smaller than 100, then rounds rated more than that amount below your average rating will be dropped that update. Your Standard Deviation indicates how consistent you have played - the smaller your SD the more consistent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 12 2010, 02:03 PM	#2374
thediscinmusician PDGA Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Athens, AL Posts: 190	You'll have to excuse my lack of intelligence. I guess this is the best way to explain, I had an unofficial 844 and a 922 this past weekend? So the difference being 78. Do I need to figure up the average deviation for every tournament for the past year or is it per event? "then rounds rated more than that amount below your average rating will be dropped that update" I guess that is what I'm not comprehending? Thanks for the info so far Chuck! Note - I went back and figured the difference per each tournament round. So for example I took round 1 and round 2, figured the difference for that tournament and wrote it down. I continued to do that for every tournament. Totaled it up and divided by the amount of tournaments I played in. Came up with the number 45. That's my average standard deviation for the year. So...times 2.5 was 112.5. Where do I go form here? Last edited by thediscinmusician; Dec 12 2010 at 02:11 PM.*

Dec 12 2010, 02:52 PM	#2375
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Unofficial ratings are not used. We calculate your standard deviation using the official round ratings in your most recent update to figure out if any rounds should be excluded/dropped. Here are your rounds that were used to calculate your standard deviation using the formula shown at the Wiki link in my previous post which is the STDEV function in Excel: http://www.pdga.com/player-ratings-d...1954&year=2010 __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 13 2010, 10:53 AM	#2376
ChrisEads PDGA Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Arkansas Posts: 464	On this latest update I have a tourney on my record that was played November 7th 2009 Why was this not dropped off? I thought all material had to be turned in on Nov 14th so it shouldnt have been concluded right?? __________________ WAFDA Tag #1 Pleasant View Tag #2 DAD TAG #2(Sugga Daddy)

Dec 11 2010, 09:47 PM	#2372
thediscinmusician PDGA Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Athens, AL Posts: 190	"or more than 2.5 standard deviations below your rating" Can you explain that to me...I'm not sure I know what that means. I understand the 100 points below you're rating. Thanks!

Dec 13 2010, 03:49 PM	#2378
AirMcNair Community Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: M'boro, TN Posts: 15	My update Chuck, Why hasn't a tourney I played in Oct being used for my rating? It has gone through two updates.

Dec 13 2010, 04:03 PM	#2379
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	We can't force the TD to turn in the report. But for the last update of the year in January, every TD in the past several years has finally turned in all reports. I think sending the "ghost of tournaments past" to visit their dreams on Christmas eve might have helped... __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 13 2010, 10:00 PM	#2380
michaeljo Community Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: living in a tent on the side of hole 14 at the Nest Posts: 442	mekes no sense, i go from 8th to out of the top 20 in world rankings!!!!! how after finishing 5th at USDGC and my rating went down a point. just wondering

Dec 13 2010, 11:42 PM	#2381
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Look at the story on the home page. A mistake was made in the October rankings which was corrected. You get penaiized for not having another Major, Worlds being second most valuable after USDGC. John E McCray right above you has a similar situation with no Worlds or other Major. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 13 2010, 11:54 PM	#2382
michaeljo Community Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: living in a tent on the side of hole 14 at the Nest Posts: 442	ok so you can have have 2 majors and nothing else and that doesnt penalize you at all?

Dec 14 2010, 12:06 AM	#2383
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	The weighting depends on how many World Ranked players enter a Major. Playing at least four NTs and/or ETs also counts as a Major. Currently, if all someone did was play USDGC and the min NTs there would be no penalty. USDGC and Worlds only would have a slight penalty. This is the World Rankings so the idea is that players actually play against World Ranked players, not just get there based on their rating. But we don't want to exclude top rated players so there are proportional penalties for not playing enough Majors or NTs. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 14 2010, 12:14 AM	#2384
michaeljo Community Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: living in a tent on the side of hole 14 at the Nest Posts: 442	so 3 nts and a major, with no worse than a 6th place finish and i get penalized? i'm just trying to sort it out chuck, not trying to jump down your throat or anything. i appreciate what you guys do but you do baffle me on occasions.

Dec 14 2010, 12:21 AM	#2385
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	The minimum number of NTs and/or ETs to get this counted as a Major is at least 4 for men (3 for women). No credit for just 1, 2 or 3 other than they hopefully help your rating. All of this info has been in the World Ranking section here: http://www.pdga.com/WorldRankings Download the documents and take a look. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 14 2010, 10:55 PM	#2386
bruce_brakel PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dying More Discs Posts: 5,571	Hey Chuck: As far as you know, ratings limits for the amateur divisions are not changing for 2011? __________________ Circuit court staff attorney - 25 years. My judge must retire. Looking for employment.

Dec 14 2010, 11:20 PM	#2387
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	I know they are not changing. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 15 2010, 10:10 AM	#2389
michaeljo Community Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: living in a tent on the side of hole 14 at the Nest Posts: 442	either way it works whatever.

Dec 15 2010, 10:27 AM	#2390
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	The NT/ET factor was added new for 2010 at the request of some top players rather than just use the Memorial results only which was done for 2009. It seemed like 4 NT/ET events was the appropriate minimum for men who were striving for a better World Ranking versus regional pros who might play just a few NTs in their area. And you get to use your best 4 so playing even more might help your ranking. There were 18 NTs/ETs so playing at least 4 is not an unreasonable expectation for a World ranked player and 27 players did that in 2010. Now you know for 2011. Good luck. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 15 2010, 11:16 AM	#2391
throwinROCS PDGA Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 19	Chuck, Any possibility that the course directory include an Average SSA statistic. I know there would be some logistics to work out such as tournaments playing different layouts. If there were a way for the course contact to submit permanent layout(s) as a standard for that course and then TDs to be able to select one of the "standard" layouts for the course or whether they were using a custom layout when they submit their results and report, that could be a way. I think it would be really cool for someone to be able to travel somewhere, play a course and be able to get an idea of what that round would have been rated.

Dec 15 2010, 11:21 AM	#2392
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	The first order of business will be to link the existing SSA data for each course to the directory listing so you can click on the SSA data link when you visit the course in the directory. If you haven't seen it, this is the link to look up every SSA ever produced in the last 10 years ratings were being calculated: http://www.pdga.com/course-ratings-by-course We hope to have that link in place during 2011. Down the road, I hope to have an app where you could enter the layout you plan to use on a course when you look it up and it would produce an estimated SSA for it. This is already being done for the Disc Golf United handicapping system. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 16 2010, 03:04 PM	#2393
evandmckee PDGA Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Fort Smith, AR Posts: 2,857	Cool Link Chuck!! I noticed under Arkansas, 2 incorrect listings showing a Moose Pretzel Course out of Homer, Arkansas - this course is in Alaska not Arkansas also showing Gulley Park (no longer exists from Fayetteville, Arkansas - never had a PDGA event played) with info from a Gulley Park Open out of Ohio

Dec 16 2010, 04:20 PM	#2394
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Once the links are made to the Course Directory, then we'll have the ability to go thru and make those corrections. There are many entries in there that are from TDs not entering the proper information or when we were doing course layouts manually for ratings 5 or 6 years ago. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 17 2010, 10:54 PM	#2395
LongNeck PDGA Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 21	Chuck got a quick question, With the new format change, I was looking at my ratings and I swear my two 808 rated rounds were dropped. When the new format changed it has them counting. I hope they counted in my rating. Did i look at it wrong the first time or not? my rating stayed the same. thanks.

Dec 17 2010, 11:34 PM	#2396
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Not sure what you mean by format changed? Do you mean the Oct update versus Dec update? If so, then it's possible rounds that get dropped in one update might be included in the next one if your rating goes down or your standard deviation increases between updates. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 18 2010, 12:11 AM	#2398
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Ah, I haven't looked until now. Gentry updated the backend of the PDGA website today and some displays have changed somewhat plus there's a new search function to rank people in your state by rating. However, that shouldn't have changed whether a round was included or not. That Yes/No value is assigned in our separate ratings database and those values are directly passed to the PDGA database for display. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Dec 18 2010, 04:45 PM	#2399
SCOTT PDGA Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lakeview DGC Posts: 327	Got my Christmas gift from Innova for this year, I'm not sure what mold it is. The markings look to be "P-MD2" Looks like some type of mid-range. What is it?

Dec 19 2010, 07:27 AM	#2400
thediscinmusician PDGA Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Athens, AL Posts: 190	2 Questions: *You may not be able to help with either but I don't know who else to ask. 1 - On my most recent tournament results, the results themselves show up but usually there is a button that I can click on that says SHOW ROUND RATINGS and that's not showing up. It's from the tournament in Athens, AL on December 18th. 2 - I noticed on my own personal page with my results for the year, that it used to be seperated for each division. For example if I played in Rec it showed those tournaments and if I played in Intermediate it showed those seperate. Now they're all jumbled up together. Do you know if that's just temporary or if they're planning on going back to the way it was. My opinion is I like it the old way! Just my $.02. No sense in fixing something if it ain't broken. thanks Chuck for whatever info you have. Hope you have a Merry Christmas!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode