Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[davei]

Originally Posted by MischiefMKR

Cool can u give us specs or the name

Right now the only specs are that it is about a 13/14 speed and a 3/4 glide. The high speed is -2/-3 depending on nose angle and the low speed is 0 to +3, again depending on nose angle. Right now they will be offered in low weights predominately from 157gms up to about 164gms. Can't post the name until we get it certified.

[junky]

What different mini molds are out there from Innova? I've seen metal rocs, first run aviars, 2 different style mini-drivers. We need heavy glow minis!

[veganray]

Glow Champion Aviars are money! They've been my key to 2nd place ca$hes at both of the mini tournaments I played in '10/

[davei]

Originally Posted by junky

What different mini molds are out there from Innova? I've seen metal rocs, first run aviars, 2 different style mini-drivers. We need heavy glow minis!

We have made several types including Aero, Aviar, TeeBird, and super Aviar.
Currently we are only making super Aviar type in DX, glow and super heavy DX.
The DX are about 25gms, the Glow are about 30gms and the super heavy are about 40-45gms.

[AWSmith]

Originally Posted by 20460chase

Probably a misprint.


So Dave, are those Gremlins the same as the CFR Champion Gremlins? Think that we will ever see a Gremlin that compares to the Pro Line? None released have compared, in all honesty. Maybe its the plastic, but the older Pro Lines were flatter, the CFR and DiscMania versions all are domey. They are also a guessing game. I bought 2 of the CFRs one flipped the other flew like a Gator.

The Beadless versions were in Star from about 3 years ago.

the Pro Line's were definitely fantastic! and given more time on the market i bet they woudve gained a good following. bummer to hear that the new ones aren't this mold...o well.
the only other one ive tried was a star, that was super domey and way overstable. it was garbage...imo.
thanks for the reply dave.

sounds like this new driver is geared towards lower weights, unlike the other fast drivers. was this your intention while designing it dave?

[davei]

[QUOTE=
sounds like this new driver is geared towards lower weights, unlike the other fast drivers. was this your intention while designing it dave?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I wanted a 13/14 speed driver that would be legal in Japanes Pro Class.

[gokayaksteven]

so is it gonna be faster than a katana? if so, how did you make that happen?

[davei]

Originally Posted by gokayaksteven

so is it gonna be faster than a katana? if so, how did you make that happen?

It might be, but it won't go farther that a Katana downwind. It's not a glider, just a wind penetrator. Maybe upwind and definitely better control at lower weights.

[cgkdisc]

Doesn't the Japanese weight restriction, partially for "safety," seem a little naive these days considering the advancements in disc speed since the early 90s standards?

[davei]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

Doesn't the Japanese weight restriction, partially for "safety," seem a little naive these days considering the advancements in disc speed since the early 90s standards?

It seems all the more necessary. The weight restriction still remains at 152gms except for the pro class. And, I certainly wouldn't call the Japanese naive.

[cgkdisc]

So why do you believe there's still any limit? Simply tradition? Seems like the downside of non-conformity with the World is greater than any imagined upside regarding the unspoken primary reason for the limit (which was never really there) has subsequently disappeared. Perhaps adopting Super Class standards for ams and rec play, except for PDGA pros with regular PDGA weight limits, might achieve the original goals for the 150 weight limit. It sounds like most PDGA events are on temp layouts with reasonable exclusion from other park goers?

[davei]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

So why do you believe there's still any limit? Simply tradition? Seems like the downside of non-conformity with the World is greater than any imagined upside regarding the unspoken primary reason for the limit (which was never really there) has subsequently disappeared. Perhaps adopting Super Class standards for ams and rec play, except for PDGA pros with regular PDGA weight limits, might achieve the original goals for the 150 weight limit. It sounds like most PDGA events are on temp layouts with reasonable exclusion from other park goers?

I don't understand your point, if you have one. Lighter discs are safer than heavier, especially at any range from the tee. The Japanese disc golf governing bodies believe it is necessary for their recreational disc golf. Apparently, you don't agree with that.

Faster discs have a greater range of influence, as far as trauma goes, heavy or light, compared with blunt discs. Probably what you don't accept is the fact that heavier disc have a greater range of influence than lighter discs with respect to damage. Lighter discs slow down faster than heavier because they don't penetrate as well. They turn into floaters more quickly. While your super class might not lacerate as much as the fast discs, they are stillgood at producing bruises, because of the mass they carry. The safest class is definitely and unarguably vintage because it is the bluntest and lightest. It slows down the fastest, has the least impact mass, and the bluntest nose.

The public parks that share the space, is the concern in Japan.

[cgkdisc]

Potential damage from a disc is going to be mass times speed tempered by edge sharpness. The Eclipse at 150g was the "worst case" example at the time the 150 class specs were made. Since then, the speed of discs with that same maximum allowed edge sharpness has increased about 50%. Getting hit by a 150g Eclipse would be "better" than one at 175g but still not exactly desireable. That was a problem with the initial specs but that ship has sailed long ago. However, if the 150g Eclipse was the worst case when the specs were written, wouldn't you agree that all of the advancements in speed since then have essentially gone way past the initial intent for protecting against potential damage? It would seem that a better way to go would be to allow max weight discs but restrict the disc models allowed to those with rounder edges as specified by the Rim config in the PDGA specs. Then, only the model of disc would need to be controlled and not worry about whether it's 152g or less.

[davei]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

Potential damage from a disc is going to be mass times speed tempered by edge sharpness. The Eclipse at 150g was the "worst case" example at the time the 150 class specs were made. Since then, the speed of discs with that same maximum allowed edge sharpness has increased about 50%. Getting hit by a 150g Eclipse would be "better" than one at 175g but still not exactly desireable. That was a problem with the initial specs but that ship has sailed long ago. However, if the 150g Eclipse was the worst case when the specs were written, wouldn't you agree that all of the advancements in speed since then have essentially gone way past the initial intent for protecting against potential damage? It would seem that a better way to go would be to allow max weight discs but restrict the disc models allowed to those with rounder edges as specified by the Rim config in the PDGA specs. Then, only the model of disc would need to be controlled and not worry about whether it's 152g or less.

That ship seemingly has sailed too. I argued this position twenty or more years ago when I saw it coming. Measuring weight allowance by inside rim diameter, rather than outside rim diameter would have done it. It was turned down by the PDGA. So too was my argument for a wider nose radius.

The PDGA was going for the larger nose radius but (apparently) got their mind changed by another manufacturer.

[oddgeir]

Does a Mako go straight on 40-50meters as well, like a Pure or aviar?

[davei]

Originally Posted by oddgeir

Does a Mako go straight on 40-50meters as well, like a Pure or aviar?

I don't know what a Pure is, but it is about as straight on a 40-50M shot as an Aviar Putter. The Mako is a longer flyer with more glide than an Aviar.

[alexjohnson13]

Dave,

Recently came across this baby and had never seen one before.
Wondered if you could shed any insight?
Thanks,

[hueyman2]

Dave,
Why is it so hard to find Rhyno's in colors other than White? You see a lot of pro discs in different colors. Rhyno's and Pigs tend to just be White, with a few in yellow (now) or Orange(haven't seen R-pro). I would totally buy bright pink, yellow, orange, etc for fall leaf color contrasts; and I have 16 Pro rhynos already. Is there any chance that Innova will produce the R-Pro Rhyno in alternate colors (other than yellow).

[davei]

The dyed Rhyno looks like a privately dyed disc.

[davei]

Originally Posted by hueyman2

Dave,
Why is it so hard to find Rhyno's in colors other than White? You see a lot of pro discs in different colors. Rhyno's and Pigs tend to just be White, with a few in yellow (now) or Orange(haven't seen R-pro). I would totally buy bright pink, yellow, orange, etc for fall leaf color contrasts; and I have 16 Pro rhynos already. Is there any chance that Innova will produce the R-Pro Rhyno in alternate colors (other than yellow).

R-Pro Rhynos were mainly white because they are relatively difficult to make in colors, but we are now making other colors.

[hueyman2]

Originally Posted by davei

The dyed Rhyno looks like a privately dyed disc.

I figured that was my option. Just dye them the color that I want. Neon pink is going to be difficult.

[oddgeir]

Any difference in stability on ch and star Mako?
174g for straight 40-50m and 180g for straight 80-90m?

[dangle]

....And to follow that up...What would the differences be between a Champ Mako and Champ MD2. From searching through some forums it sounds as if the MD2 is a hair more stable in terms of both LSS and HSS...?

[davei]

Originally Posted by oddgeir

Any difference in stability on ch and star Mako?
174g for straight 40-50m and 180g for straight 80-90m?

I don't know for sure, but Champion tends to be a hair more stable, and Glow Champ tends to be a hair more stable than that.

[davei]

Originally Posted by dangle

....And to follow that up...What would the differences be between a Champ Mako and Champ MD2. From searching through some forums it sounds as if the MD2 is a hair more stable in terms of both LSS and HSS...?

Yes, the MD2 is more stable high and low. The Mako is better in the woods and the MD2 is better in the open and wind.

[AWSmith]

Dave,

I noticed that Will S, Avery and a few others are now Team Innova and Discmania. What is the relationship going to be team wise now? Will all Team Innova players be able to throw Discmania or a select few? What are the disc restrictions on the Discmania players?

[Dana]

I'm not Dave, but I think that Innova sponsored players have always been allowed to throw Discmania (or Millennium discs). Innova makes the discs for these other companies, its all good. In fact- Climo's currently rocing, excuse me, rocking the MD2.

[Peeete]

Morning, Dave.

What current plastic is SE comparable to and when was it produced?

Thanks,
Pete

[davei]

Originally Posted by Peeete

Morning, Dave.

What current plastic is SE comparable to and when was it produced?

Thanks,
Pete

SE was never a specific plastic. It was Special Edition and it could have been
anything. Usually, it was either a driver Pro type plastic or a early Star or Champion type. It might have also been an early R-Pro type.

They were produced around 2000 to 2003, I believe. Just a guess.

[futurecollisions]

Dave,

Now that Pigs (and a few other discs) have switched to R-pro plastic, do you think the stability has changed any>?

Thanks