Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs - Page 383

futurecollisions · May 18 2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AviarX

doesn't that involve using chemicals that are probably carcinogenic?

acetone is not a carcinogen

AviarX · May 18 2010, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by futurecollisions

acetone is not a carcinogen

there is inadequate evidence to classify it as a known carcinogen, and the sellers of acetone therefore would insist there is plausible deniability -- but i am not convinced. workers exposed to it long-term report dizziness, irritated throats, and loss of energy.

i prefer to steer clear. ymmv

ferrari17 · May 19 2010, 10:15 AM

You can always just use a magic eraser. Not as efficient as acetone, but it gets the job done.

mrspank · May 19 2010, 10:43 AM

I have not conducted enough trials to form a solid opinion, but it is my belief that acetone (in large enough doses) may affect the flight characteristics of discs. I completely removed the stamps on several high speed practice drivers (Wraiths, Destroyers, Katanas) in the past, and noticed that all of them flew noticeably more overstable at high speeds after stamp removal. I stopped using acetone at that point, since I generally prefer less stable discs to meat hooks, but based on that small sample I think there may be something going on. Anyone else noticed the same trend?

Dave, do you have any experience with the stock-stamped Star Katanas? They are much flatter than the Pros I have been throwing across all weight ranges, and I have heard from credible sources that they fly more stable with less carry. Any thoughts on this? Could the retailer I visited have gotten a *funny* batch? As always, thanks for your thoughts and all you do for the sport.

ben

davei · May 19 2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrspank

I have not conducted enough trials to form a solid opinion, but it is my belief that acetone (in large enough doses) may affect the flight characteristics of discs. I completely removed the stamps on several high speed practice drivers (Wraiths, Destroyers, Katanas) in the past, and noticed that all of them flew noticeably more overstable at high speeds after stamp removal. I stopped using acetone at that point, since I generally prefer less stable discs to meat hooks, but based on that small sample I think there may be something going on. Anyone else noticed the same trend?

Dave, do you have any experience with the stock-stamped Star Katanas? They are much flatter than the Pros I have been throwing across all weight ranges, and I have heard from credible sources that they fly more stable with less carry. Any thoughts on this? Could the retailer I visited have gotten a *funny* batch? As always, thanks for your thoughts and all you do for the sport.

ben

Your sources are correct from my experience. Star is generally more stable than Pro across the board. Some exceptions have happened stability wise, but almost always the Pro is domier than the Star and has more carry.

exczar · May 19 2010, 12:21 PM

After using acetone, apply some Rain-X to the area and see if you notice any difference in flight characteristics.

ishkatbible · May 19 2010, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrspank

I have not conducted enough trials to form a solid opinion, but it is my belief that acetone (in large enough doses) may affect the flight characteristics of discs. I completely removed the stamps on several high speed practice drivers (Wraiths, Destroyers, Katanas) in the past, and noticed that all of them flew noticeably more overstable at high speeds after stamp removal. I stopped using acetone at that point, since I generally prefer less stable discs to meat hooks, but based on that small sample I think there may be something going on. Anyone else noticed the same trend?
...
...
ben

i've noticed this a while back. but also noticed the same difference on stock stamps versus event stamps that have foil all over the disc. it started with my first pro destroyer. (victoria open 2008) nice full stamp. liked the disc, bought a backup stock-stamp destroyer, same weight, and even color. much more overstable. same for wraiths and xcals as well.

mrspank · May 19 2010, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davei

Your sources are correct from my experience. Star is generally more stable than Pro across the board. Some exceptions have happened stability wise, but almost always the Pro is domier than the Star and has more carry.

As a follow-up question, is there any way to get more dome on the Star Katanas, or are we stuck with what's been released? I have also noticed slightly less dome on Star discs than Pro (Wraiths, Destroyers, XCals, Bosses), but never to the degree of these Katanas. Most of the Star distance drivers I've thrown still maintain decent to good carry compared to their Pro counterparts. But from what I've been told, the Pro and Star Katanas are like completely different discs (some have alluded to using Stars for forehand, which I wouldn't dream of with a Pro unless on an uphill, tailwind hole). Maybe others haven't had issue with this difference, but I was hoping for a Katana-ish disc with improved durability in the Star. Thanks for your thoughts.

davei · May 19 2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrspank

As a follow-up question, is there any way to get more dome on the Star Katanas, or are we stuck with what's been released? I have also noticed slightly less dome on Star discs than Pro (Wraiths, Destroyers, XCals, Bosses), but never to the degree of these Katanas. Most of the Star distance drivers I've thrown still maintain decent to good carry compared to their Pro counterparts. But from what I've been told, the Pro and Star Katanas are like completely different discs (some have alluded to using Stars for forehand, which I wouldn't dream of with a Pro unless on an uphill, tailwind hole). Maybe others haven't had issue with this difference, but I was hoping for a Katana-ish disc with improved durability in the Star. Thanks for your thoughts.

While Pro are almost always domey, Star can be somewhat domey to somewhat flat. It depends on the particular batch of material we are working with. Material batches are homogeneous, but from batch to batch, they vary, sometimes widely and can cause a lot of variation. Probably your best bet would be Echo Star, which tends to have more dome than regular Star on average.

dgdave · May 19 2010, 03:21 PM

dave, To follow up on the DX Roc/Roc+ mold issue, I looked at 10 new stamped DX rocs yesterday and 6 were the + mold and for were standard Rancho. All were 100% DX too so no mis stamps.

bpait · May 19 2010, 03:58 PM

Hi Dave,

Would there be any difference in the plastic between an echo dart and a regular production star dart? Stability? Break-in period? Anything or are they the same?

quickdisc · May 19 2010, 04:20 PM

Do they make the Champion Katana in Glow ?

Like this one !

davei · May 19 2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpait

Hi Dave,

Would there be any difference in the plastic between an echo dart and a regular production star dart? Stability? Break-in period? Anything or are they the same?

I tried the Echo Star and didn't like the feel as well as the Star Dart which felt tackier to me. As for the break-in period or the flight characteristic; I didn't notice any difference but because I didn't like the feel of the Echo Star, I haven't had a lot of experience with them over time. I have had a lot of experience with the Star over time and like them alot. They start out slightly over stable and break in quickly to stable and stay that way for quite a while.

davei · May 19 2010, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickdisc

Do they make the Champion Katana in Glow ?

Like this one !

I am not positive, but I don't believe we have. We will in the future, but not with that stamp.

davei · May 19 2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgdave

dave, To follow up on the DX Roc/Roc+ mold issue, I looked at 10 new stamped DX rocs yesterday and 6 were the + mold and for were standard Rancho. All were 100% DX too so no mis stamps.

I am looking into this. Hopefully, I will have an answer tomorrow.
Thanks

Furthur · May 20 2010, 11:41 AM

Dave, aside from being a slightly faster Roadrunner, what are the difference between that disc and the Discmania Turning Driver (TD)?

I see that the Roadrunner has a 1.8cm rim while the TD has a 1.9cm. Is this a new part? I don't see an Innova disc on the approved list with a 1.9cm rim that's as flat (or L shaped) as the Roadrunner.

davei · May 20 2010, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgdave

dave, To follow up on the DX Roc/Roc+ mold issue, I looked at 10 new stamped DX rocs yesterday and 6 were the + mold and for were standard Rancho. All were 100% DX too so no mis stamps.

I checked the stock today and could find no anomalies. All DX were normal mold and all R-Pro were the +mold. Keep in mind that the new run of R-Pro is about as stiff as DX, but grippier, so it is possible that you have some DX stamped R-Pro or a couple of freaks I am unaware of.

davei · May 20 2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furthur

Dave, aside from being a slightly faster Roadrunner, what are the difference between that disc and the Discmania Turning Driver (TD)?

I see that the Roadrunner has a 1.8cm rim while the TD has a 1.9cm. Is this a new part? I don't see an Innova disc on the approved list with a 1.9cm rim that's as flat (or L shaped) as the Roadrunner.

I think the TD is a little more stable than the Roadrunner. It might be more comparable to a Valkyrie. It doesn't turn as much initially as we wanted, but it has other virtues. Also, it has a little more meaty feel in the hand and should be a little more torque resistant. But I haven't fully tested that yet.

Furthur · May 20 2010, 07:24 PM

Dave, I'm down here at Disc Golf World in KC, and 40 or the 50 dx Rocs down here are the + mold.

gippy · May 20 2010, 07:54 PM

How do we tell the difference in the +mold vs the regluar Rancho Mold?

Furthur · May 20 2010, 10:21 PM

Dave, I got one of these dx Rocs in question. I also have a marked Star R+ roc, and I can see that the tooling on the bottom of the discs is different. So perhaps a piece of the mold from the R+ (like the slanted rim and the top from my eye) got used to mold some of these dx Rocs.

davei · May 21 2010, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furthur

Dave, I'm down here at Disc Golf World in KC, and 40 or the 50 dx Rocs down here are the + mold.

Does the plastic of the + mold look smoother and feel tackier? If so, they are actually R-Pro mis-stamps. If the plastic looks and feels the same, then we must have made + mold DX. But if so, I couldn't find any here.

Furthur · May 21 2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davei

Does the plastic of the + mold look smoother and feel tackier? If so, they are actually R-Pro mis-stamps. If the plastic looks and feels the same, then we must have made + mold DX. But if so, I couldn't find any here.

I'll try to take a look this weekend. I'll have Rick bring out some R-Pro and dx to the tournament we're running this weekend so I can compare.

Any idea on the different mold engravings between these dx mystery Rocs and the Star R+'s? Should the R-Pro R+'s have the same mold engraving as the Star?

LastBoyScout · May 21 2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gippy

How do we tell the difference in the +mold vs the regluar Rancho Mold?

The + Mold has a slightly slanted inner rim. It feels similar to Latitude 64's slanted inner rim.

Most people realize it when they grip a + Mold disc since their grip feels "funny" or "different".

davei · May 21 2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furthur

I'll try to take a look this weekend. I'll have Rick bring out some R-Pro and dx to the tournament we're running this weekend so I can compare.

Any idea on the different mold engravings between these dx mystery Rocs and the Star R+'s? Should the R-Pro R+'s have the same mold engraving as the Star?

They both say Rancho, but the newer R+ doesn't have the old patent # and has the www.innovadiscs.com

Furthur · May 21 2010, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davei

They both say Rancho, but the newer R+ doesn't have the old patent # and has the www.innovadiscs.com

Yep. The Star I have has the www., but the dx does not.

Thanks for being so forthcoming about this. I know that you didn't intend for these to be released in dx, and I appreciate everything you're doing to track down the reason.

quickdisc · May 22 2010, 02:40 PM

Is there a Star or current Version of this type of TeeBird.

gippy · May 22 2010, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickdisc

Is there a Star or current Version of this type of TeeBird.

Is that a Teebird or TL They make the Teebird in Star and Champion just not with that stamp?

LastBoyScout · May 24 2010, 12:11 PM

Dave,

What is up with the latest run of Star TLs?

The red ones are currently being described as "Champion Cherry" Star TL.

It feels great in the hand, almost like CE and tends to be a little more durable than the Star TLs in other colors.

Plus, they are translucent to a good degree.

Is this something repeatable with other versions of star plastic?

Furthur · May 24 2010, 12:47 PM

A lot of the red star plastic is like this. It reminds me a lot of the 2005 SB Rocs.

May 19 2010, 10:15 AM	#11463
ferrari17 PDGA Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 6	You can always just use a magic eraser. Not as efficient as acetone, but it gets the job done. __________________ Spencer Wilken PDGA #33730

May 19 2010, 12:21 PM	#11466
exczar PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 1,630	After using acetone, apply some Rain-X to the area and see if you notice any difference in flight characteristics. __________________ Bill Burns, DGRZ001 ----------------------------------------------- I used to be really good; then the beveled-edged disc came out and everyone could now throw far.

May 24 2010, 12:11 PM	#11489
LastBoyScout PDGA Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 134	"Champion Cherry" Star TL Dave, What is up with the latest run of Star TLs? The red ones are currently being described as "Champion Cherry" Star TL. It feels great in the hand, almost like CE and tends to be a little more durable than the Star TLs in other colors. Plus, they are translucent to a good degree. Is this something repeatable with other versions of star plastic?

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May 19 2010, 10:43 AM	#11464
mrspank Community Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Fritz Park Posts: 86	I have not conducted enough trials to form a solid opinion, but it is my belief that acetone (in large enough doses) may affect the flight characteristics of discs. I completely removed the stamps on several high speed practice drivers (Wraiths, Destroyers, Katanas) in the past, and noticed that all of them flew noticeably more overstable at high speeds after stamp removal. I stopped using acetone at that point, since I generally prefer less stable discs to meat hooks, but based on that small sample I think there may be something going on. Anyone else noticed the same trend? Dave, do you have any experience with the stock-stamped Star Katanas? They are much flatter than the Pros I have been throwing across all weight ranges, and I have heard from credible sources that they fly more stable with less carry. Any thoughts on this? Could the retailer I visited have gotten a funny batch? As always, thanks for your thoughts and all you do for the sport. ben

May 19 2010, 03:21 PM	#11470
dgdave Community Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Norman, Ok Posts: 1,713	dave, To follow up on the DX Roc/Roc+ mold issue, I looked at 10 new stamped DX rocs yesterday and 6 were the + mold and for were standard Rancho. All were 100% DX too so no mis stamps.

May 19 2010, 03:58 PM	#11471
bpait PDGA Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 49	Hi Dave, Would there be any difference in the plastic between an echo dart and a regular production star dart? Stability? Break-in period? Anything or are they the same?

May 20 2010, 11:41 AM	#11476
Furthur PDGA Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 776	Dave, aside from being a slightly faster Roadrunner, what are the difference between that disc and the Discmania Turning Driver (TD)? I see that the Roadrunner has a 1.8cm rim while the TD has a 1.9cm. Is this a new part? I don't see an Innova disc on the approved list with a 1.9cm rim that's as flat (or L shaped) as the Roadrunner.

May 20 2010, 07:24 PM	#11479
Furthur PDGA Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 776	Dave, I'm down here at Disc Golf World in KC, and 40 or the 50 dx Rocs down here are the + mold.

May 20 2010, 07:54 PM	#11480
gippy PDGA Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 433	How do we tell the difference in the +mold vs the regluar Rancho Mold?

May 20 2010, 10:21 PM	#11481
Furthur PDGA Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 776	Dave, I got one of these dx Rocs in question. I also have a marked Star R+ roc, and I can see that the tooling on the bottom of the discs is different. So perhaps a piece of the mold from the R+ (like the slanted rim and the top from my eye) got used to mold some of these dx Rocs.

May 24 2010, 12:47 PM	#11490
Furthur PDGA Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 776	A lot of the red star plastic is like this. It reminds me a lot of the 2005 SB Rocs.