Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[AirMcNair]

Originally Posted by davei

That would be a possibility. But right now, scheduling would be difficult at best.

Ya the cheetah would be a very sweet disc to come back in Champ plastic.

[davei]

Originally Posted by gokayaksteven

Dave -
i love the flights of my dx rocs, i carry 3-4 in different stages of wear, but am not as into the grip or feel of the mold. I love the feel of the buzz, but it is not quite stable enough for my taste. Can you suggest a dx-plastic replacement for the roc? I love the feel of the cro. would this work?

Yes, the Cro would be a suitable replacement, but in a smaller, quicker, less glidey alternative. Another more direct replacement would be the DX Shark. Another possible replacement would be the latest run of R-Pro Rocs in the + mold.

[futurecollisions]

Dave,

Any plans to produce regular runs of the echo star groove?

And also, thank you for the star mako. For me it flies more stable than the coyote in 180g. great replacement for an old ms aurora or beat up kc pro roc

[Fossil]

Dave
I've had these in my collection for a decade and the 'Tank' thread made me open the box.
Maybe you can tell me the story of the one in the upper left. It has the same marking, a "T" , but hotstamp says
Ching Powerline ...Putter Approach [USG-0-] Super Stable Chain Crusher
and has the same dome as #119 & #120. The 3 Y2K Special Edition have a very flat top.

Also a question about the very early runs of the Omega Supersoft. The 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and a few other runs were a real 'pebbly' plastic. What is the story and is that effect reproducible?

As always, Thanks for your time

[veganray]

Originally Posted by Fossil

Also a question about the very early runs of the Omega Supersoft. The 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and a few other runs were a real 'pebbly' plastic. What is the story and is that effect reproducible?

Some SE Rhynos & supersoft Polecats had that same feeling. Vibram is experimenting with a similar effect by including ground rubber bits in its pre-proto X-Link Soft Eco material. It feels extremely nice.

[sandalbagger]

you know what would be awesome???????

If you made a run of CFR Griffins!!!!!!! Would be sooooo sweet. How sick would those be? Come on, you know you want to. What do I need to do to have this happen?

[davei]

Originally Posted by futurecollisions

Dave,

Any plans to produce regular runs of the echo star groove?

And also, thank you for the star mako. For me it flies more stable than the coyote in 180g. great replacement for an old ms aurora or beat up kc pro roc

You're welcome, for the Mako.

We do plan to make some Echo Star Grooves, but can't fit it in the schedule right now. Might have to wait 'til later this year.

[davei]

Originally Posted by Fossil

Dave
I've had these in my collection for a decade and the 'Tank' thread made me open the box.
Maybe you can tell me the story of the one in the upper left. It has the same marking, a "T" , but hotstamp says
Ching Powerline ...Putter Approach [USG-0-] Super Stable Chain Crusher
and has the same dome as #119 & #120. The 3 Y2K Special Edition have a very flat top.

Also a question about the very early runs of the Omega Supersoft. The 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and a few other runs were a real 'pebbly' plastic. What is the story and is that effect reproducible?

As always, Thanks for your time

Sorry, I can't tell you anything about the hot stamps. I rarely see anything with a stamp any more. The dome on the tank will change with the material vintage and run. Generally the softer ones have lower domes.

We have been toying with the idea of bringing the Tank back. Always thought it was a good disc.

The gritty effect of the early Super Softs was just an artifact of the batch of material we were running at the time. It happens on occasion, but it's serendipitous when it does. I do have a theory, but haven't tested it as yet.

[gippy]

Ya bring the Tank back please the Y2K edition ones would be sweet

[rickm]

oh gawd yes. please bring the tank back!

[rob]

Nice new website! Thanks for all you do and for taking the time to answer all of our questions.

[LastBoyScout]

Site looks nice Dave. Much easier to navigate. Now if we can only get a spot on the site where users can vote on which old mold to bring back into production or what disc to run in a different type of plastic.

[davei]

Originally Posted by LastBoyScout

Site looks nice Dave. Much easier to navigate. Now if we can only get a spot on the site where users can vote on which old mold to bring back into production or what disc to run in a different type of plastic.

That might be a good idea. Thank you.

[rickm]

so dave,there seems to be some questioning about the current run of dx rocs out right now. are they the roc + mold? does this mean the rancho mold is gonna be replaced by the roc +? please say it isnt so!!!

[davei]

Originally Posted by rickm

so dave,there seems to be some questioning about the current run of dx rocs out right now. are they the roc + mold? does this mean the rancho mold is gonna be replaced by the roc +? please say it isnt so!!!

It isn't so. The + mold is only for certain Rocs like the R-Pro. I am not sure if we have run any DX. We did try it in Champion, and it was fine. The + mold has limited uses, but is helpful for certain type discs.

[Furthur]

Dave, here's the dx Roc in question

[LastBoyScout]

i would say from the photos that the question has been both asked and answered.

I hope those Plus + rims feel better in your hand than they do in mine.

[Furthur]

Actually, the rim in those pictures looks kinda slanted, which is what my friend who took these pics said as well. I can't confirm, since he lives in Cali and I live in KC, but he's felt enough Rocs to know something was different.

No, the + rim does not feel good in my hands. I prefer the standard Rancho in dx.

[davei]

Originally Posted by Furthur

Actually, the rim in those pictures looks kinda slanted, which is what my friend who took these pics said as well. I can't confirm, since he lives in Cali and I live in KC, but he's felt enough Rocs to know something was different.

No, the + rim does not feel good in my hands. I prefer the standard Rancho in dx.

It certainly looks like an R-Pro Roc with a DX stamp. I will investigate tomorrow. It wouldn't be the first time, the wrong hot stamps were put on the wrong discs. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

[AviarX]

Originally Posted by davei

The R-Pro comes with several putters and will eventually come with all putters including the P2. Right now the P2 plastic, while grippy is not nearly as soft as the JK. The Omega is a small bead. Depending on your putting style, you may be better off with an Omega, an R-Pro Aviar, or an R-Pro Dart. These all fly straighter at low speeds. If you're a hyzer putter or pitch putter, you should probably stick to what you have and putt with more authority. If you are a flat fly putter, you could definitely benefit from a change or make sure your JK is beat up good. We have made Polecats in soft plastic as a test run and will have R-Pro in the future. I wouldn't recommend you switch to a Polecat unless you already like the grip. It's a significant grip change.

I first made the switch to an R-Pro Aviar and was very satisfied with the putt but didn't like the drive or approach as, once broken in, it was not stable enough in the wind. Next stop was the P2. The P2 was definitely better for my style flat putting, than the JK, and was very reliable in the wind for putting or driving. When we came out with the R-Pro Dart, I couldn't not try it as the soft grippy plastic felt really good and my putting improved significantly. However, the same problem occurred with my R-Pro Dart as did with the R-Pro Aviar. It became unreliable in the wind once broken in significantly. The Star Dart solved everything for me. It was very straight and reliable in the wind and takes a long time to beat up. The grip is not as good as a brand new R-Pro, but over time, it is just as good. Once the R-Pro gets a bit dirty it loses it's high tack. Of course, if you wash it, the tack returns, but that is a pain. Star is much easier to clean with a windex wipe.

On the other hand. If your putting problem is your putting and not your putter, any change in putters could bring some improvement as it will tend to make you focus better on the new piece of plastic in your hand. With better focus on the disc in hand, you will get better results any way.

so i finally made a switch. i chose the Glow Aviar, mainly because i like the minimalist stamp and because i think maybe the buttery soft JK's i love are better suited for my 300 ft and in drives and approaches than they are for my flat putts.

what if any differences might i expect from the glow DX plastic in terms of stability? With Champ glow i have noted increased stability -- is the same true of glow DX?

[davei]

Originally Posted by AviarX

so i finally made a switch. i chose the Glow Aviar, mainly because i like the minimalist stamp and because i think maybe the buttery soft JK's i love are better suited for my 300 ft and in drives and approaches than they are for my flat putts.

what if any differences might i expect from the glow DX plastic in terms of stability? With Champ glow i have noted increased stability -- is the same true of glow DX?

JKs are excellent for drives, approaches and hyzer putts. They do fall down a bit for flat putts as they have a tendency to saw off left for flats that are thrown without good force.

I wish I could answer your question directly about the stability of Glo DX vs regular DX, but I can't. Indirectly, I hear they are a bit more stable.

I still think a better transition and maybe permanent stop for you would be a P2. Just as good at drives and maybe better at approaches than a JK, it is definitely better at flat putts.

[Dana]

You say that the JK is good for hyzer putts, does this mean that an over-stable putter is better for a hyzer style putter? Or is a straighter putter like an Aviar P&A or Dart better for a hyzer putter? (Or does it just boil down to personal preference?)

Thanks

[AviarX]

Originally Posted by davei

JKs are excellent for drives, approaches and hyzer putts. They do fall down a bit for flat putts as they have a tendency to saw off left for flats that are thrown without good force.

I wish I could answer your question directly about the stability of Glo DX vs regular DX, but I can't. Indirectly, I hear they are a bit more stable.

I still think a better transition and maybe permanent stop for you would be a P2. Just as good at drives and maybe better at approaches than a JK, it is definitely better at flat putts.

I will definitely keep the stockpile of soft JK's for 300 ft or shorter drives and approach shots -- not sure why some people find soft discs more flippy unless it is an off-axis torque issue... soft JK Aviars are money. i may occasionally go to the JK for strong headwind putts...

i probably should have never gone to the JK as my putter -- but i used to throw rather than putt and love the feel and the signature on the JK's. over many rounds i have observed what you have said -- if i putted with more speed or hyzer the Aviar-x would be a good choice. as i do not, i could probably make a higher percentage of putts with a small or no bead Aviar. the left fade of the big bead Aviar causes me to just miss a percentage of slow, flat putts that would otherwise have a chance to go in

the subjective feeling a disc gives me has a big influence and i really like the Glow Aviar's minimalist stamp. soft discs seem prone to more bounce outs, and i am ready to trade those for more spit-thrus which come with a firmer disc. i think the soft disc is better for my modified FU grip (which i drive and sometimes putt with), but that for best results i need to push putt with a putt grip not a modified FU... seems to me the DX Aviars will have less release issues for me.

i don't care for the P2 stamp plus it doesn't say 'Innova' (on top); would go with a R-Pro Aviar but for the grip issue reason went with the glow. the blue and green foil stamped ones really catch my eye

probably more personal preference info than necessary -- but for what its worth, there it is

btw, my old school (opaque) QMS's and new SMS's are like two different but very appreciated discs. the former is the straightest point and shoot disc i have ever thrown, and the latter (in flight) is like a more consistent, and slightly more HSS Champ Coyote. thanks as always for your pivotal historic and ongoing role in plastic disc innovation!

let those sweet babies soar!

[LastBoyScout]

Originally Posted by AviarX

I will definitely keep the stockpile of soft JK's for 300 ft or shorter drives and approach shots -- not sure why some people find soft discs more flippy unless it is an off-axis torque issue... soft JK Aviars are money. i may occasionally go to the JK for strong headwind putts...

JK Prototypes are money discs. Super grippy, yet still firm in the hand.

I buy up every JK Proto i can find. Current total: 8

Still looking for more.

[veganray]

Originally Posted by LastBoyScout

JK Prototypes are money discs. Super grippy, yet still firm in the hand.

I buy up every JK Proto i can find. Current total: 8

Still looking for more.

I have three. 2 unthrown, uninked. 1 thrown <10 times (still perfect condition), uninked. All 175g. All white. Blue, green, rainbow hotstamps. Make me an offer.

[AviarX]

Originally Posted by LastBoyScout

JK Prototypes are money discs. Super grippy, yet still firm in the hand.

I buy up every JK Proto i can find. Current total: 8

Still looking for more.

love the stamp, but too firm for my taste.

[AviarX]

Originally Posted by davei

It wouldn't be the first time, the wrong hot stamps were put on the wrong discs.

if you come across any Destroyers, Orcs, Roadrunners, or R-Pro Aviars with this stamp:



I'll take several. Ever considered this stamp for all your discs and just putting the disc name where this one says "Glow Aviar Putter"?

[futurecollisions]

I just sold a bunch of beasts with that stamp in an Ebay auction. Never really knew it mattered that much to people. If you dont like the normal stamp just wipe the rest off and leave the innova part only?

[AviarX]

Originally Posted by futurecollisions

I just sold a bunch of beasts with that stamp in an Ebay auction. Never really knew it mattered that much to people. If you dont like the normal stamp just wipe the rest off and leave the innova part only?

doesn't that involve using chemicals that are probably carcinogenic?

[davei]

Originally Posted by Dana

You say that the JK is good for hyzer putts, does this mean that an over-stable putter is better for a hyzer style putter? Or is a straighter putter like an Aviar P&A or Dart better for a hyzer putter? (Or does it just boil down to personal preference?)

Thanks

I think over stable putters like JKs and KCs are better for hyzer type putts. They dive more quickly even if they are blown sideways, as opposed to a less stable putter that will travel sideway farther. I think Aviar P&As and Darts are much better for flat putts.

Of course, personal preference over rules most anything and feel over rules technique.