Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[sprdgr]

Hi Dave,

I have Millenium driver that needs some identification. It's orange Star like plastic with the big Millenium logo and looks like its marked G4 on the bottom along with weight of 175. It has the Rancho engraving of course but it's towards the outside. I'm not sure how or how long ago I acquired it. To me it looks and feels somewhat like a Sidewinder. Any ideas as to what it might be?

Thanks, Mike

[geo]

Hey Dave, thanks for all your time. I was wondering if you plan on Making any CFR Champ Makos? This disc is great and I'd love one with just a little more stability. I prefer Champ plastic to everything else, especially Champ glow. If you could make some Champ glows I'd be in heaven! I know you said coyotes are a little more stable but I prefer the feel of the Mako. Thanks!

[20460chase]

Its an Orion.

[John Keith]

No I was just explaining how Snap can explain different drivers and shot selections...sorry If it bothers you.

[dstearns5]

Originally Posted by John Keith

No I was just explaining how Snap can explain different drivers and shot selections...sorry If it bothers you.

Your post has nothing to do with this thread.

[John Keith]

Originally Posted by dstearns5

Your post has nothing to do with this thread.

then I formally apologoze for interuptong your forum, I obvisoulsy got you off your topic. thanks for the heads up.
I just thought some would find this interesting, obvisously not.

[gippy]

Originally Posted by John Keith

then I formally apologoze for interuptong your forum, I obvisoulsy got you off your topic. thanks for the heads up.
I just thought some would find this interesting, obvisously not.

Im sure some,alot would just start a new thread this doesn't pretain to this thread he wasn't trying to rude or anything just an FYI is all

[John Keith]

thanks man, I understand.
And I would totally Buy a Champ Mako and or a Glow Champ makko, as If we can make these a little more stable, I can use for more range of shots.
I will have to also say, that Im not one for using other disc as putters, but I have found alot of success with longer and up wind putting with the Mako !! seriously.
Its flight characteristics are very putter like so If likes to be Putt'd. Give it a try. I have banged some 50+ footers with the Makko when My putter didnt have the steam to get there.

[davei]

Originally Posted by sprdgr

Hi Dave,

I have Millenium driver that needs some identification. It's orange Star like plastic with the big Millenium logo and looks like its marked G4 on the bottom along with weight of 175. It has the Rancho engraving of course but it's towards the outside. I'm not sure how or how long ago I acquired it. To me it looks and feels somewhat like a Sidewinder. Any ideas as to what it might be?

Thanks, Mike

Original Orion LS

[davei]

Originally Posted by geo

Hey Dave, thanks for all your time. I was wondering if you plan on Making any CFR Champ Makos? This disc is great and I'd love one with just a little more stability. I prefer Champ plastic to everything else, especially Champ glow. If you could make some Champ glows I'd be in heaven! I know you said coyotes are a little more stable but I prefer the feel of the Mako. Thanks!

We will be starting the run of Champion Makos next week. Champion Glow is a possibility depending on time.

[sprdgr]

Originally Posted by davei

Original Orion LS

So proto run of these?

[two5twosix9]

Originally Posted by davei

We will be starting the run of Champion Makos next week. Champion Glow is a possibility depending on time.

good to hear, thanks dave. Are you planning to make these with a softer blend like the star? I think a plastic similar to the TB+ would be neat. Glow would be awesome too. Thanks for the rocs for the kids!

[dgdave]

Originally Posted by sprdgr

So proto run of these?

No, just the early run before there was name. Its the 4th Generation of LS.

[davei]

Originally Posted by two5twosix9

good to hear, thanks dave. Are you planning to make these with a softer blend like the star? I think a plastic similar to the TB+ would be neat. Glow would be awesome too. Thanks for the rocs for the kids!

I'm not sure what the plastic will be like yet, but probably a little firmer than Star.

[Dana]

I like the new Echo stamps, it is nice not having to fight with the Echo sticker anymore- Thanks for that!

[Furthur]

Originally Posted by davei

I retooled the old Aero mold, which was on its last legs. I knew what I wanted to make, (it was in the original patent drawings). I also knew that the disc would not be a particularly good golf disc. It was fairly over stable at low speeds and stable to slightly under at high speeds. I taught Sam Ferrans how to throw a high anhyzer, which was necessary for this type of disc. It took him about 2 weeks to get it down. He was the first to use this style of distance throwing. The disc was legal to 190, but we used a lighter disc at 176-177gms to get more carry and initial acceleration. First tournament, he set the record. He had thrown farther in practice though, so it wasn't a fluke. The mold didn't last too much longer.

That's pretty cool. I assume that the previous distance records were set using a hyzer-flip type shot? It's hard to imagine that there was actually a point in disc golf that the anhyzer flex shot wasn't part of most pro's shot repertoire.

[RhynoBoy]

If you go back and look at some old pictures of people throwing from the late 80's, early 90's, their throwing technique is quite a bit different! Pretty funny to compare

[AviarX]

Hey Dave,

Hope you don't mind fielding some forehand questions: I am pretty good for touch shots but my forehand drives lack the power I feel I should be able to get. My grip of the disc is at about 9 oclock as it passes my side and then between 7 and 8 oclock at release. When I read your chart it looks like the disc is at 6 oclock at release and the elbow / arm almost fully extended? I am releasing with my elbow near my side. My grip is uncomfortable with the driver lip edge pressing into my index finger above the bottom knuckle. should all of the grip pressure be at my thumb and finger pads? Your chart mentions the finger pad should be on the vertical wall of the rim... Should the finger pad be the last point of contact?

[davei]

Originally Posted by AviarX

Hey Dave,

Hope you don't mind fielding some forehand questions: I am pretty good for touch shots but my forehand drives lack the power I feel I should be able to get. My grip of the disc is at about 9 oclock as it passes my side and then between 7 and 8 oclock at release. When I read your chart it looks like the disc is at 6 oclock at release and the elbow / arm almost fully extended? I am releasing with my elbow near my side. My grip is uncomfortable with the driver lip edge pressing into my index finger above the bottom knuckle. should all of the grip pressure be at my thumb and finger pads? Your chart mentions the finger pad should be on the vertical wall of the rim... Should the finger pad be the last point of contact?

l don't mind the question at all but i don't understand the clock reference. Do you mean where your thumb is pointing on a horizontal clock with 6:00 being straight at the target?

At any rate, yes your arm should be almost fully extended at the hit. And yes, the finger pad pressure and the thumb pad pressure should be controlling the hit. The middle finger pad and the thumb pad would be the last to touch the disc. The thumb controls the power of the grip.

The driver rim bottom edge should be between the fist knuckle and the second knuckle of the index. With older smaller rimmed discs, you could put it behind the fist knuckle, but with the newer wider rimmed discs, it would be very difficult. The point of the knuckle grip is to lock the disc in place, before rotation and snap. It is not a place the disc snaps from ultimately. This is akin to the baby and third fingers acting as a locking device for the backhand.

As an aside, Mike Berry throws excellent sidearm and has the rim bottom hitting between the distal and penultimate knuckles of the index. I tried that but couldn't make it work consistently for me.

Whipping as late as possible, and out in front of you, takes pressure off your rotator cuff and mandates a quick snap. The quick snap is very desirable for acceleration, and accuracy.

[unclemercy]

Originally Posted by John Keith

Ok I was out practicing my Drives across a field today and I was pondering Ideas about why we choose certain drivers and why so many different players vary with what they deem as the best driver:
We know about different styles of throws but I was thinking about how many different players vary when it comes to the amount of SNAP they put on a disc. Here an idea I have to explain why I choose my disc and maybe this will just be interesting to read, or perhaps help some players choose a good driver for the.???
For this exercise lest put “Snap” into a range.
Say a Valkyrie/Sidewinder would be 1 (least) and a Teebird / Tracker would be about 5, and a destroyer / Force would be about 7-8 and then a Boss 8, a Firebird/Max/Predator would be 10.
If you can SNAP a 10 Disc then Your name is Robbie Bratten, He can snap a drive with all his strength and a predator will fly strait for him. He has so much snap he can actually make a Pred anny when he release it strait. That’s definitely more snap than I have. Now people all differ in how much snapo they have. Some of my friends have to tape finger tips as they are snapping very hard with tight grips. And some guys just realease disc with spin and don’t snap so hard as they have loose grips. I would say im in the middle as I have to chalk or rub dirt on finger tips to get a smooth release and not hurt my fingers, my grip is pretty hard.
I would put my SNAP level at about a 7. To me I Snap hard and I like to released very Strait or flat. I can flip a 175 teebird If I put all my snap into a shot, where Robbie Bratten could snap over a Pred if he threw with same strength. So im learning why I love my certain drivers and others don’t have the same opinion. For me I am practicing with Champion Boss’s, Champion Destroyers, Star Destroyers, Pro Destroyers, ESP NUKES.
I am tweaking my shots and learning which is the best distance driver for My SNAP. I think a beat in Champion Destroyer ranges in the 7, 6.1/2 range if its well beat in. So I think my SNAP is around a 6-7 depending on how hard I throw. I’m getting my Snap ranges from looking at the Stability chart from Marshal Streets Disc Golf Chart. So for me If a Destroyer beats in and becomes a little less over stable then it becomes a perfect SNAP ranger for my distance shots with good control. The Boss’s are to over stable so my best Snap can’t throw them Strait and they just go left. I am liking the Nukes as their Snap range is a little less than the destroyer so they are flying very well for me.
I just thought it was cool to put these drivers in a Snap range. I know a lot of guys differ with their amount of SNAP. Some Hyzer flip, some release flat. And guys like Robbie can release hyzer and flip anny a predator….anyways I know this is long but it was interesting to my brain.

just ask him out. what have you got to lose?

[20460chase]

Lol.

[exczar]

Originally Posted by RhynoBoy

If you go back and look at some old pictures of people throwing from the late 80's, early 90's, their throwing technique is quite a bit different! Pretty funny to compare

You got that right! Used to be when you had a course that had lots of left-to-right shots, it was a righty's course! And the farther you go back, the more it was, like with Midnight Flyers, beat in Midnight Flyers.

[AviarX]

Originally Posted by davei

l don't mind the question at all but i don't understand the clock reference. Do you mean where your thumb is pointing on a horizontal clock with 6:00 being straight at the target?

I meant where my grip intersects the disc, and using reference to a horizontal clock. (taking the disc to be a clock with 12 being the forward edge and 6 being the trailing edge. When the disc passes my side my grip of the disc is at 9 oclock (wrist is cocked). at that point my thumb is pointing maybe at 2. At release in my present, no doubt flawed, technique my grip is at 7:30 (with thumb pointing at about 1:30). I think I have been trying to push the disc too far behind the first (aka: biggest) knuckle and that puts the knife edge into the web of my hand. With a lid that isn't so uncomfortable... I have a bad habit with backhand and forehand of feeling the (tight) grip pressure in the outer edge of the rim rather than the inner edge. i guess the focus should be on the inner rim(?) and with wider discs that is also a far more comfortable side to grip tightly. that would allow me not to .c.ock the wrist as much and so the grip would be more at 8 when it passes my side and more near 6 (thumb pointing at 12 or forward) upon release. hope this is somewhat clear... a looser grip will result too -- which may not be bad at all...

At any rate, yes your arm should be almost fully extended at the hit. And yes, the finger pad pressure and the thumb pad pressure should be controlling the hit. The middle finger pad and the thumb pad would be the last to touch the disc. The thumb controls the power of the grip.

The driver rim bottom edge should be between the fist knuckle and the second knuckle of the index. With older smaller rimmed discs, you could put it behind the fist knuckle, but with the newer wider rimmed discs, it would be very difficult. The point of the knuckle grip is to lock the disc in place, before rotation and snap. It is not a place the disc snaps from ultimately. This is akin to the baby and third fingers acting as a locking device for the backhand.

As an aside, Mike Berry throws excellent sidearm and has the rim bottom hitting between the distal and penultimate knuckles of the index. I tried that but couldn't make it work consistently for me.

Whipping as late as possible, and out in front of you, takes pressure off your rotator cuff and mandates a quick snap. The quick snap is very desirable for acceleration, and accuracy.

[Jimmy]

Any word on KC Pro Teebirds?

[AWSmith]

hey dave, what is Discmania's TD and MD2? what do the compare too? thanks

[two5twosix9]

Any word on KC teebirds?

[atreau3]

Hey Dave!

What can you tell me about this basket?

Was it made for 150 class original aviars, or can it be used for heavier putters?

[gippy]

Originally Posted by atreau3

Hey Dave!

What can you tell me about this basket?

Was it made for 150 class original aviars, or can it be used for heavier putters?

They have one of these at my kids school. My boy puts his class mates to shame on it. 1st time they played on it he was hitting putts from 20ft. His PE teacher says to him "your a natural at this" Next time they used it he brought his own putters in and was hitting even more. He tells his teacher "ya I've been playing since I was 5"

[davei]

Originally Posted by atreau3

Hey Dave!

What can you tell me about this basket?

Was it made for 150 class original aviars, or can it be used for heavier putters?

We made those about 15-20 years ago. They were too expensive to injection mold as we had to farm it out to companies that use 600 ton machines.


Yes they can catch heavier putters too.

[atreau3]

Great!

I just won it on ebay last night... I had never seen on of them before...

Thanks for the info!