Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[davei]

Originally Posted by grizzly09

Hey Dave,

I was wondering if you guys still make the 'Throw Art' line.

Here's what I'm talking about: http://www.innovadiscs.com/downloads...olorupdate.jpg

I would just like to know how I could purchase some.

Thanks,
rizbee_jr

These were all done by the East Coast office. Most, if not all were done with the Full Color process, which is no longer available. The East office may still have some or know someone who does.

[davei]

Originally Posted by AviarX

----

hey Dave -- there was no such thing as champion plastic in 1984 so it was an Innova DX Aero that Frank Aquilera threw 167.88 meters (550 ft) -- yes? ...how far would you guess your out-of-bounds throw went that year?

Also, it has been 8 years since Sandstrom set the present record. What disc(s) do you think have the best potential to break it?

Hard to tell how far mine went but much farther than the record. I got a great lift from the wind. I don't think Frank's could have gone further as it would have hit a fence.

I was discussing which discs have the best potential for the record yesterday with Jussi Meresmaa. Jussi said last years winner was a Roadrunner. He does not think the wider rimmed discs have an advantage over the speed 9 discs. My opinion is a disc with good glide and a characteristic that fits the throwers style and the wind that day. If I were going to throw, I would use a Pro Katana. I don't know if the world beaters could control a Pro Katana. I think they would be better off with a Pro Boss. The trick to throwing very long distances is to get altitude and good sail position on a good wind. Good sail position involves tacking direction, banking angle, and nose attitude. Nose attitude is hugely critical with long distance throws. If the nose is up at all, the throw will fail in all wind conditions. If the nose is down too far, (because the disc is too flippy or the throw too sloppy), the disc will roll.

If it were an indoor record, the disc choice would be a lot more critical and the higher speed discs would win. Because it is outdoors and the wind plays a big part, it becomes a combination of things that could potentially converge to produce a 900 ft 150 gm Aviar throw. I watched Harold Duvall do that in a Santa Ana wind 30+mph in Ontario, Ca.

Nose sensitivity is the problem with the high speed drivers.

[listen2bob]

Originally Posted by davei

Hard to tell how far mine went but much farther than the record. I got a great lift from the wind. I don't think Frank's could have gone further as it would have hit a fence.

I was discussing which discs have the best potential for the record yesterday with Jussi Meresmaa. Jussi said last years winner was a Roadrunner. He does not think the wider rimmed discs have an advantage over the speed 9 discs. My opinion is a disc with good glide and a characteristic that fits the throwers style and the wind that day. If I were going to throw, I would use a Pro Katana. I don't know if the world beaters could control a Pro Katana. I think they would be better off with a Pro Boss. The trick to throwing very long distances is to get altitude and good sail position on a good wind. Good sail position involves tacking direction, banking angle, and nose attitude. Nose attitude is hugely critical with long distance throws. If the nose is up at all, the throw will fail in all wind conditions. If the nose is down too far, (because the disc is too flippy or the throw too sloppy), the disc will roll.

If it were an indoor record, the disc choice would be a lot more critical and the higher speed discs would win. Because it is outdoors and the wind plays a big part, it becomes a combination of things that could potentially converge to produce a 900 ft 150 gm Aviar throw. I watched Harold Duvall do that in a Santa Ana wind 30+mph in Ontario, Ca.

Nose sensitivity is the problem with the high speed drivers.

Crap, I thought I threw far but,
Man 550 with an aero........we all are wimpy arms throwing fast discs. Please tell me they were throwing on a high plateau in a hurricane.

[flynvegas]

Pretty sure Frank beat the record here in Vegas.

[davei]

Originally Posted by flynvegas

Pretty sure Frank beat the record here in Vegas.

Yes, it was at some school in Las Vegas, and not near the strip.

[rizbee]

[QUOTE=mf100forever;1408069]

Originally Posted by grizzly09

I am not Dave D, but you are correct.

I love it. My kid, the disc historian, answering questions about plastic that was produced seven years before he was born. Good god, what have I created?

[rizbee]

Hey Dave - have you produced any discs yet using Star-lite, and if so, which ones and how low do they go?

[davei]

Originally Posted by rizbee

Hey Dave - have you produced any discs yet using Star-lite, and if so, which ones and how low do they go?

Star lite Bosses went down to 165-166gms. We tried it in Destroyer, Wraith, and DD (Dismania). Possibly in XCalibers. None of the other tests were compelling as the discs became too overstable.

[dangle]

Originally Posted by davei

Star lite Bosses went down to 165-166gms. We tried it in Destroyer, Wraith, and DD (Dismania). Possibly in XCalibers. None of the other tests were compelling as the discs became too overstable.

So wait a sec, are you saying there are 165-170 DDs (second run, I assume) that are supposedly a little more stable? I recently purchased 2 Hysteria DDs (173/4) and they seem much more understable than the First Runs....

[davei]

Originally Posted by dangle

So wait a sec, are you saying there are 165-170 DDs (second run, I assume) that are supposedly a little more stable? I recently purchased 2 Hysteria DDs (173/4) and they seem much more understable than the First Runs....

No. The only Starlite that were sold, were Bosses. We merely tested the others.

[weaves]

Originally Posted by davei

No. The only Starlite that were sold, were Bosses. We merely tested the others.

was that the slightly transparent but still opaque star plastic that had a slight sparkle to it?

[JHBlader86]

Dave, any chance of doing stabilized star versions of your fairway drivers, primarily the TeeBird??

[two5twosix9]

Originally Posted by JHBlader86

Dave, any chance of doing stabilized star versions of your fairway drivers, primarily the TeeBird??

Check out a champ glow or echo teebird. Usually a bit more overstable than other plastics.

[JHBlader86]

Originally Posted by two5twosix9

Check out a champ glow or echo teebird. Usually a bit more overstable than other plastics.

I've got Echo's. They're real domey and are pretty straight. Never tried a champ glow one before. Only the CFR TL.

[davei]

Originally Posted by weaves

was that the slightly transparent but still opaque star plastic that had a slight sparkle to it?

I don't recall any transparency, but there was at times a slight sparkly/grainy look to the rim.

[davei]

Originally Posted by JHBlader86

Dave, any chance of doing stabilized star versions of your fairway drivers, primarily the TeeBird??

Yes, I believe we have done some in the past. Not sure how many or where they went. We will do some in the future.

[mf100forever]

[QUOTE=rizbee;1408149]

Originally Posted by mf100forever

I love it. My kid, the disc historian, answering questions about plastic that was produced seven years before he was born. Good god, what have I created?

intimidating ;-P

[agyba]

Hello Everyone. I am new to this forum, and have really been enjoying this thread specifically. I have read through most of it but I am having trouble finding a few answers .... so if Davei or anyone can answer it would be appreciated

1. Are there any distinguishing characteristics to identify 'stabilized' discs?

2. Could someone provide a little background for me on what the nightshift orcs, destroyers are all about?

[20460chase]

Night Shift Orcs are the best Orcs ever made. Small batch never duplicated correctly. For me, the Destroyer or Tulsa Orcs didnt cut it, but thats me.

[gokayaksteven]

how were they so different?

[futurecollisions]

Originally Posted by agyba

1. Are there any distinguishing characteristics to identify 'stabilized' discs?

http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/index.html

[gippy]

Dave,
Any Chance of running more 12XKC Pro Black Aviars? I found them to be more like the 11Xs. A bit softer to the touch but still a stiff disc. I find the 12Xs some have a dome and some have a sunk or flat top. It's tough to find some that are the same.
Why did they change so much from 11X to 12X and the 10X for that matter?

[notahobogolfer]

Dave,
I have a glow Champion Eagle from the 2003 Gentlemens Club Classic. Would this be CE plastic or regular champ?

Thanks

[MikeInscho]

I would definitely get plenty of the Innova "Throw Art" Skull designs myself. I didn't know about that line either.

[davei]

Originally Posted by gippy

Dave,
Any Chance of running more 12XKC Pro Black Aviars? I found them to be more like the 11Xs. A bit softer to the touch but still a stiff disc. I find the 12Xs some have a dome and some have a sunk or flat top. It's tough to find some that are the same.
Why did they change so much from 11X to 12X and the 10X for that matter?

The composition (material) is supposed to be identical. It's a little different with each batch we get from the manufacturer. Even the natural color changes.

[davei]

Originally Posted by notahobogolfer

Dave,
I have a glow Champion Eagle from the 2003 Gentlemens Club Classic. Would this be CE plastic or regular champ?

Thanks

Probably regular champion, but I don't really know.

[ChrisEads]

Dave with the release of the new echo boss's
They are very soft and have very little dome
Are they going to be more stable or less stable than the 167 star boss's which i found to be the more stable version of the boss.
Also is it possible to get the Echo down to the 167 weight range if so maybe this would make it more stable and give it that dome that most everyone looks for in their echo discs (xcals, dest)
thanks in advance

[Furthur]

Originally Posted by futurecollisions

http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/index.html

That's pretty useless.

[FizzyP]

Originally Posted by futurecollisions

http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/index.html

I'm pretty sure he's asking about the various "stabilization process" that Dave has discussed on this thread. Adorably smart-assed as it may be, I don't really see how a link to Innova's stability chart will help.

[AviarX]

Originally Posted by agyba

2. Could someone provide a little background for me on what the nightshift orcs, destroyers are all about?

Nightshift Orcs were the precursor to Star plastic. The nightshift at Innova came up with it while making Champion or Pro Orcs. The distinguishing characteristics (I think) were they were opaque and tacky/grippier than Champion. According to legend, the Nightshift Orcs were especially stable and durable and attained some of the allure & mystique of old school CE plastic. They were definitely found desirably different by many Orc lovers.

later, Tulsa hosted Amateur Worlds and Innova made Special Blend Orcs as a fundraiser. Kevin McCoy might have had a hand in this? The Tulsa SB Orcs were opaque and pretty much second generation nightshift Orcs. Speaking from personal experience, they were fabulous (durable, stable, etc.). I believe it was the plastic itself which distinguished them. Grippy and long like Pro but durable as any Champion. I have never thrown a first generation nightshift Orc, but the Tulsa ones are good enough for me.

Innova subsequently released 'Star' plastic after the Special Blend Tulsa Orcs. I would call Star plastic third generation nightshift.

Not sure about Destroyers. Maybe a few got made with nightshift like properties?

I am not an expert on any of this so I am just throwing out there what my take is since noone seems to have addressed your question. Too bad Felix Sung effectively got banned from here by the members-only posting rule passed by the PDGA BoD because he was an irreplaceable voice of competent, informed, explanation.

my recommendation is do not get lured into expensive discs described as 'nightshift' or with other mythic monikers unless you know the seller, know exactly what the disc is and feel you really have to have it.