Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[mikeP]

Dave,

I just picked up 2 new Champ Valks. Both are made of the opaque champ plastic and they feel quite similar. However one is marked with the 5x JK stamp and the other a standard champ stamp. Looking at them nose to nose the one with the standard stamp has a significantly beefier nose (spacer?). Have there been tweaks with the Valk mold, and if so what's the story? Thanks as always.

[davei]

Originally Posted by mikeP

Dave,

I just picked up 2 new Champ Valks. Both are made of the opaque champ plastic and they feel quite similar. However one is marked with the 5x JK stamp and the other a standard champ stamp. Looking at them nose to nose the one with the standard stamp has a significantly beefier nose (spacer?). Have there been tweaks with the Valk mold, and if so what's the story? Thanks as always.

I can't explain the difference. The Valk has not been tweaked. The only think I can come up with as a possibility is a mis-marked and mis-stamped Viking.
That would explain the beefier nose. The mark for a Valk is supposed to be VL and the mark for a Viking is supposed to be VK. We used to use VK for Valkyries but had to change when we introduced the Viking.

[LastBoyScout]

Originally Posted by ishkatbible

i have a little case of o.c.d. where the stamp must be facing me as if i was just looking at it to read it.

that is why God invented acetone.... i take all the stamps off my discs.

[dgdave]

Originally Posted by LastBoyScout

that is why God invented acetone.... i take all the stamps off my discs.

You can still see the ghost stamp. I used to have this issue too.

[Trey133]

Whats the story on these test run gummy champ roc's i'm seeing on ebay. Can you get heavier weights? So far these are only 160.

As always, thank you Dave!

[flynvegas]

Those are a extremely limited run, no more. They will be pricy when the bids end.

[davei]

Originally Posted by Trey133

Whats the story on these test run gummy champ roc's i'm seeing on ebay. Can you get heavier weights? So far these are only 160.

As always, thank you Dave!

We tested a material using the Rancho Roc mold. The material was a gummy Champion type putter material. The test was short. Only 10 at 160 and one mixed result X-part at 175. There are no others. This is not a material we were intending to use with Rocs. Unless the USDGC wants some of these for their Roc collectors, we will not make any more. These are being used as fundraisers for So Cal.

[johnbiscoe]

hi dave,
i was going through some boxes of older stuff and found that i have a 7x kc gazelle in gold plastic- any ideas on how many of them may be out there? thanks!

[kwibby1]

Originally Posted by davei

We tested a material using the Rancho Roc mold. The material was a gummy Champion type putter material. The test was short. Only 10 at 160 and one mixed result X-part at 175. There are no others. This is not a material we were intending to use with Rocs. Unless the USDGC wants some of these for their Roc collectors, we will not make any more. These are being used as fundraisers for So Cal.

So is this a different material then the japan open "gummy" champion Rocs thats been around for quite some time?

[davei]

Originally Posted by johnbiscoe

hi dave,
i was going through some boxes of older stuff and found that i have a 7x kc gazelle in gold plastic- any ideas on how many of them may be out there? thanks!

I don't remember the gold plastic. Sorry.

[davei]

Originally Posted by kwibby1

So is this a different material then the japan open "gummy" champion Rocs thats been around for quite some time?

Yes, this is a different material that could not produce 150 gm discs. This plastic may be able to produce 180gm gummy Rocs, but we didn't try that.

[two5twosix9]

Originally Posted by davei

Yes, this is a different material that could not produce 150 gm discs. This plastic may be able to produce 180gm gummy Rocs, but we didn't try that.

180 gummy rocs? gross.

[LastBoyScout]

Originally Posted by two5twosix9

180 gummy rocs? gross.

They would fill the gap in my dwindling stack of 177 - 180 gram soft 11x KC Pro Rocs....

[atreau3]

holy shiit

http://completed.shop.ebay.com/discg...c0.m283&_rdc=1

[dgdave]

I stopped at 160

[gippy]

Thats insane

[JHBlader86]

$818 for one golf disc. And this is a recession??

[two5twosix9]

Do you plan to run makos in stiffer star or champion plastic?

[davei]

Originally Posted by two5twosix9

Do you plan to run makos in stiffer star or champion plastic?

Not in stiffer Star, but probably yes to Champion. We haven't made a decision yet.

[Djpaco]

Dave, don't take offense to my questions, but what is the point of doing a test run of discs if no-one is going to throw them first of all being outlandishly expensive and limited to 11 possible people? Were they really a "test run"?

What really is being tested?
A) How the disc plays in this configuration
B) ...or how much people are willing to pay for a 'limited' run disc?

I am all for growing/ supporting the sport I love by purchasing fund raiser discs, but really?

Dave, on another completely separate note, why did the champion boss go from stable/understable to overstable? Why is the original configuration not being made available? It seems the secondary market of collectors have these discs and those of us who loved how they ***originally came out of the mold, yet cannot afford $40 to $50*** are left wondering, why?

Again, I am not trying to anger anyone, but i have been wondering about this question since literally a week after the boss came out... Cheers to all...

[discette]

Originally Posted by Djpaco

Dave, don't take offense to my questions, but what is the point of doing a test run of discs if no-one is going to throw them first of all being outlandishly expensive and limited to 11 possible people? Were they really a "test run"?

What really is being tested?
A) How the disc plays in this configuration
B) ...or how much people are willing to pay for a 'limited' run disc?

I am all for growing/ supporting the sport I love by purchasing fund raiser discs, but really?

Dave, on another completely separate note, why did the champion boss go from stable/understable to overstable? Why is the original configuration not being made available? It seems the secondary market of collectors have these discs and those of us who loved how they ***originally came out of the mold, yet cannot afford $40 to $50*** are left wondering, why?

Again, I am not trying to anger anyone, but i have been wondering about this question since literally a week after the boss came out... Cheers to all...

Regarding test runs:

Plastic manufacturers often supply samples of materials to test. Results of these tests determines whether the materials are suitable and whether they will produce a quality product in the desired weight range. Tests may produce zero "usable" discs to a few dozen. Samples undergo various tests and generally end up being recycled or most often sitting in Dave's office taking up room. A small sample batch of materials just happened to be tested while the Roc was being manufactured and produced the "test run" of 160 Gummy Champion Rocs.

[mf100forever]

Originally Posted by discette

Regarding test runs:
Tests may produce zero "usable" discs to a few dozen. Samples undergo various tests and generally end up being recycled or most often sitting in Dave's office taking up room.

I can help Dave to get rid of some samples , just send them to me....... ;-P

[davei]

Originally Posted by Djpaco

Dave, don't take offense to my questions, but what is the point of doing a test run of discs if no-one is going to throw them first of all being outlandishly expensive and limited to 11 possible people? Were they really a "test run"?

What really is being tested?
A) How the disc plays in this configuration
B) ...or how much people are willing to pay for a 'limited' run disc?

I am all for growing/ supporting the sport I love by purchasing fund raiser discs, but really?

Dave, on another completely separate note, why did the champion boss go from stable/understable to overstable? Why is the original configuration not being made available? It seems the secondary market of collectors have these discs and those of us who loved how they ***originally came out of the mold, yet cannot afford $40 to $50*** are left wondering, why?

Again, I am not trying to anger anyone, but i have been wondering about this question since literally a week after the boss came out... Cheers to all...

As far as your first question goes, there are three basic types of tests. There is a test market, and a material/mold test, and flight tests of certain mold/material tests. The test you were referring to was simply a material test. No market test or flight tests were planned other than the immediate flight tests on site by myself and Steve Wisecup. The material passed the molding and initial flight tests, but was deemed unsuitable for Rocs as it was too gummy. The test samples sat in my office with no place to go until I thought of letting Suzette use them for SoCal fundraising. She did.

I have no idea why people paid what they did for these 160gm gummy Rocs. 160gms is not a particularly popular weight. These cannot even be used for the Japan Open. Champion Rocs are ordered by the USDGC to be almost all at top weight class in a stiffer Champion plastic. All the money generated went to SoCal, not Innova. Suzette paid Innova the same discount CFR fee that other tournaments pay.

As for the initial Bosses: We started running Champion Bosses in a softer material that produced a huge amount of rejects due to flight plate warping. We subsequently changed the plastic mix, so that would not occur. Since then, we have learned to use the softer mix better such that we can run far fewer rejects, but we have not tried it in the Boss since then. The second Champion mix produced a more stable Boss that our team was requesting. We decided to stay with that mix and try to make the Star Boss a little less over stable.

I believe we can now run the Champion Boss in the softer material, but I am not sure if it is necessary with the introduction of the Katana.

[Djpaco]

Originally Posted by davei

As far as your first question goes, there are three basic types of tests. There is a test market, and a material/mold test, and flight tests of certain mold/material tests. The test you were referring to was simply a material test. No market test or flight tests were planned other than the immediate flight tests on site by myself and Steve Wisecup. The material passed the molding and initial flight tests, but was deemed unsuitable for Rocs as it was too gummy. The test samples sat in my office with no place to go until I thought of letting Suzette use them for SoCal fundraising. She did.

I have no idea why people paid what they did for these 160gm gummy Rocs. 160gms is not a particularly popular weight. These cannot even be used for the Japan Open. Champion Rocs are ordered by the USDGC to be almost all at top weight class in a stiffer Champion plastic. All the money generated went to SoCal, not Innova. Suzette paid Innova the same discount CFR fee that other tournaments pay.

As for the initial Bosses: We started running Champion Bosses in a softer material that produced a huge amount of rejects due to flight plate warping. We subsequently changed the plastic mix, so that would not occur. Since then, we have learned to use the softer mix better such that we can run far fewer rejects, but we have not tried it in the Boss since then. The second Champion mix produced a more stable Boss that our team was requesting. We decided to stay with that mix and try to make the Star Boss a little less over stable.

I believe we can now run the Champion Boss in the softer material, but I am not sure if it is necessary with the introduction of the Katana.

Dave, Thank you for your detailed response. I have little Plastics Manufacturing experience, and found this answer to be helpful.

You are right, I have personally seen the new champ katanas which physically seem awfully close to my FR Boss (Although i understand that these are described as speed 13 sidewinders, which is nothing like the FR Boss). However, these are ONLY available as a fundraiser disc, Initially priced for 25.00, sold out over at Herodisc. The good news - I can get one through Marks site, discgolfvalues, at a real steal... 39.95! When would it be released for standard issue/ at a reasonable price?

[i2rt]

Originally Posted by Djpaco

Dave, Thank you for your detailed response. I have little Plastics Manufacturing experience, and found this answer to be helpful.

You are right, I have personally seen the new champ katanas which physically seem awfully close to my FR Boss (Although i understand that these are described as speed 13 sidewinders, which is nothing like the FR Boss). However, these are ONLY available as a fundraiser disc, Initially priced for 25.00, sold out over at Herodisc. The good news - I can get one through Marks site, discgolfvalues, at a real steal... 39.95! When would it be released for standard issue/ at a reasonable price?

I just checked Hero and they have Katanas right now or maybe the site is not up to date. I went as far as starting checkout and they were still in my shopping cart.

[davei]

Originally Posted by Djpaco

Dave, Thank you for your detailed response. I have little Plastics Manufacturing experience, and found this answer to be helpful.

You are right, I have personally seen the new champ katanas which physically seem awfully close to my FR Boss (Although i understand that these are described as speed 13 sidewinders, which is nothing like the FR Boss). However, these are ONLY available as a fundraiser disc, Initially priced for 25.00, sold out over at Herodisc. The good news - I can get one through Marks site, discgolfvalues, at a real steal... 39.95! When would it be released for standard issue/ at a reasonable price?

The Pro (not R-Pro) Katana will be released about Jan 10. Star Katanas will be released some time after the Pro Worlds Star Katanas are sold out. There are two types of Champion Katanas. The more stable stiffer Katana will probably stay in CFR. The softer version will probably be released shortly after the first of the year, I hope.

[Furthur]

Have these world's fundraiser Katanas been run yet? If so, how does the stability compare to the Pro and Champ?

[davei]

Originally Posted by Furthur

Have these world's fundraiser Katanas been run yet? If so, how does the stability compare to the Pro and Champ?

The Stars are more stable than the Pro. I'm not sure how to compare the Champion yet. I have thrown the Champion a bit now, but only threw the Star once or twice so far.

[Furthur]

Originally Posted by davei

The Stars are more stable than the Pro. I'm not sure how to compare the Champion yet. I have thrown the Champion a bit now, but only threw the Star once or twice so far.

Is there a release date on those fundraisers yet? Will there be multiple stamps, like the Worlds Monarchs last year?

[davei]

Originally Posted by Furthur

Is there a release date on those fundraisers yet? Will there be multiple stamps, like the Worlds Monarchs last year?

I hope the release will be within a couple of weeks. We have already produced the necessary discs. It's just a matter of stamping and shipping at this point, I believe. I have only seen one piece of art at this point, and I don't know what they are planning for different stamps or not right now.