Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[davei]

Originally Posted by dehaas

Dave, I was sifting through some older discs of mine and ran across a star stamp spider I forgot I had. I remember hearing that these were some of the last CE discs made, and I've also heard these were champion. The one I have is a pearly baby blue, but my college roommate bought one at the same time that was a translucent purplish pink, also with the proto star stamp on it. I never thought these were CE discs, based on the CE discs that I'd run across at the time. The plastic seemed very similar to a champion pearly orc that I also had. Do you have any idea if these were in fact CE discs? I happened to get hooked on disc golf at that magical era of CE and 10x plastic...I just wish I knew enough at the time to amass a stockpile of it for later. Thanks.

If they were CE, the Spiders would be rather stiff. Probably pearlescent Champion.

[Trickay]

Dave,

What are the main differences between the mako and coyote? I went out to see the flight differences and it really just seems that the champ. Plastic is the only thing making the coyote more stable, also my mako is marked cy is that just an error someone made?

Also has the champ. Classic Roc been decided upon yet?

[davei]

Originally Posted by Trickay

Dave,

What are the main differences between the mako and coyote? I went out to see the flight differences and it really just seems that the champ. Plastic is the only thing making the coyote more stable, also my mako is marked cy is that just an error someone made?

Also has the champ. Classic Roc been decided upon yet?

The Coyote and Mako are different molds. The Coyote comes from the Rancho mold and the Mako comes from the San Marino mold. The Coyote is a little more high speed stable, and a little more low speed over stable. The Coyote is better in the wind and the Mako is better in the woods. The Mako has a straighter finish than the Coyote. Plastic and different runs can make a difference, but all of the above will hold true on average.

If the engraving on your Mako says San Marino, it is a Mako and it was a marking error.

We haven't made any decisions regarding the Champion Classic Roc yet.

[dgdave]

Originally Posted by dehaas

Dave, I was sifting through some older discs of mine and ran across a star stamp spider I forgot I had. I remember hearing that these were some of the last CE discs made, and I've also heard these were champion. The one I have is a pearly baby blue, but my college roommate bought one at the same time that was a translucent purplish pink, also with the proto star stamp on it. I never thought these were CE discs, based on the CE discs that I'd run across at the time. The plastic seemed very similar to a champion pearly orc that I also had. Do you have any idea if these were in fact CE discs? I happened to get hooked on disc golf at that magical era of CE and 10x plastic...I just wish I knew enough at the time to amass a stockpile of it for later. Thanks.

It the plastic that was the "Pro" plastic between CE and Champion.

[two5twosix9]

I was on the site comparing the mako to other discs and I came across the bulldog. I haven't seen one inquite a while, are you still making them?

[davei]

Originally Posted by two5twosix9

I was on the site comparing the mako to other discs and I came across the bulldog. I haven't seen one inquite a while, are you still making them?

The Hydra and Bulldog are now basically the same. We dropped the Bulldog in favor of the Hydra.

[dehaas]

Originally Posted by dgdave

It the plastic that was the "Pro" plastic between CE and Champion.

Ok, so around that same timeframe the Beast and I believe the Monster came out and I remember seeing these labeled as Pro on the stamp. This in between plastic was the stuff referred to as Candy, right? I vaguely remember a few other discs labeled as pro on the stamp...the firebird and maybe a few others.

[veganray]

Gremlin, Leopard

[krazyeye]

Banshee, Cheetah and Gazelle had KC Pro.

[20460chase]

Firebird

[veganray]

KC Pro Teebird, JK Pro Valkyrie.

IMHO, that particular vintage (particularly the gummy variant) is the best plastic ever. I carry a gummy ProLine Leopard & a non-gummy ProLine Gremlin. I only have one gummy ProLine Gremlin, & it is really too unique to put into the rotation (151g w/ menacing Punisher-esque skull dye).

[dehaas]

Yeah, I still throw my pro line gremlin. I agree with the fondness of that era plastic, but then again that's what was available when I got addicted to the sport. Kind of how most people have an affinity to the music their parents listened to when they were kids...it's just what you grew up with.

[gippy]

That plastic is sweet I still have one of those spiders in my bag and 2 on the wall. And all of my fairway drivers are CE people look at me funny when I show them that my bag has 6-7 CEs in it and old Rocs but hey the CE was what i got to know when they came out so I still throw em. Champion plastic got to inconsistent for me takes alot of time to find todays champion that I like Won't order them online but a CE disc no questions about them

[20460chase]

As good as the plastic was there was still plenty of variations from run to run, and within them.

[two5twosix9]

I picked up a mako and it is marked CY as someone else had posted before. The plastic ismuch softer than usual star, is it the grippy blend? If so, do you plan to run them in the normal more stiff star?

I saw a hydra that was stamped with an R-pro stamp. The plastic was very odd, very stiff, do you know what the deal is with the plastic? Is it the floatable plastic mixed with R-pro? Can you run drivers in the plastic, how does it hold up? I would love to get a leopard, teebird, or wraith in this plastic if it is durable. Thanks.

[YourBOB]

I was wondering why Innova doesnt mark thier disc in the mold. It is so annoying to get an old dis, or one that has the marking gone.
I mean discraft marks thier disc on the inside rim, so why doesnt innova.
It sure would take the guessing game out of figuring out what disc you have.
Thanks

[davei]

Originally Posted by two5twosix9

I picked up a mako and it is marked CY as someone else had posted before. The plastic ismuch softer than usual star, is it the grippy blend? If so, do you plan to run them in the normal more stiff star?

--We will continue with the grippier Star, but may do some Champion at some point. They will probably be stiffer.--

I saw a hydra that was stamped with an R-pro stamp. The plastic was very odd, very stiff, do you know what the deal is with the plastic? Is it the floatable plastic mixed with R-pro? Can you run drivers in the plastic, how does it hold up? I would love to get a leopard, teebird, or wraith in this plastic if it is durable. Thanks.

The Hydras are now made with R-Pro and do float. However, they should not have been stiffer than DX Hydras were. Yes, we do run drivers in that plastic. It is not as durable as regular driver Pro, but more durable than DX.

[davei]

Originally Posted by YourBOB

I was wondering why Innova doesnt mark thier disc in the mold. It is so annoying to get an old dis, or one that has the marking gone.
I mean discraft marks thier disc on the inside rim, so why doesnt innova.
It sure would take the guessing game out of figuring out what disc you have.
Thanks

We don't mark them in the tool because many parts are used with more than one model. We also use many of the parts to mold discs, of other names for other companies.

[stack]

Originally Posted by davei

We don't mark them in the tool because many parts are used with more than one model. We also use many of the parts to mold discs, of other names for other companies.

along these lines is something i've been meaning to ask... since it sounds like pen ink is here to stay would it be possible to mark the mold/weight on the rim somewhere and not in the center of the disc... or at least not for champ discs? Its great to get a nice crystal clear champ disc but only to find that you see someone scribbles from the underside. This was brought up by more than a few people @ USDGC w/ the collectors champ rocs. Skeet had a great design but you could see the ink from underneath that looks less than desirable. I would imagine this also comes up for people when they want to dye a design onto a clear disc.

[two5twosix9]

Originally Posted by davei

The Hydras are now made with R-Pro and do float. However, they should not have been stiffer than DX Hydras were. Yes, we do run drivers in that plastic. It is not as durable as regular driver Pro, but more durable than DX.

These hydras must have been misstamped because this was not the R-pro that I know. Super stiff.

[davei]

Originally Posted by two5twosix9

These hydras must have been misstamped because this was not the R-pro that I know. Super stiff.

If you are comparing DX Hydras to R-Pro Hydras, the R-Pro should be softer, not stiffer. If you are comparing R-Pro Hydras to R-Pro Aviars, Darts, or even bosses, I understand your confusion.

The Hydra is a massive disc. No matter what plastic we put in it, it will be stiffer than other discs made with the same plastic.

[two5twosix9]

So I am impresssed with the mako. It is a cavity back roc, so forgiving. It has gone right into my bag after one field session. It. Does go a bit far for where I put it in my bag, how does the star dart compare because if it is similar I might get one of those instead. Well done with the mako, thank you.

[davei]

Originally Posted by two5twosix9

So I am impresssed with the mako. It is a cavity back roc, so forgiving. It has gone right into my bag after one field session. It. Does go a bit far for where I put it in my bag, how does the star dart compare because if it is similar I might get one of those instead. Well done with the mako, thank you.

The Star Dart is similar, but slightly more stable and not quite as long for most throwers, I believe. The R-Pro Dart is almost the same as the Star Mako characteristic wise, and not quite as long. The Star Dart will hold up better in the wind than either of the others.

I have been throwing the new Champ Coyote, the Star Mako and the Star Dart together for a while now. And, I might also say that I switched from the R-Pro Dart, which I had been using for a while before that.

I am still debating whether I will need all three, though there is a subtle difference that does count on some holes. I have always been a fan of throwing my putter when I can, and I have always been able to throw my putter over 300 ft. so I haven't used mids that much before. I have tended to cover the middle ground with a Champion Viking or a Star Roadrunner, and had been using a Star Cro.

That being said, I find the Star Mako to have the softest line on a hyzer, the easiest to hyzer flip, and the easiest to maintain a medium high turnover and the easiest to throw straight in a confined fairway like the woods. I find the new Champ Coyote to be the best of the three in the wind and the most reliable, but the Star Dart is not too bad either, is a very good putter, and much better than the R-Pro in the wind, though the R-Pro is a slightly better long range putter.

So, a shorter answer to your question might be, that the Star Dart is almost as long, is slightly more stable, and is a good putter. However, if you don't like to throw hard with the softer grippier Star plastic that the Dart is made of, you should pass on it. I like it, and have no problem with backhand drives. Side arm is another matter. It is too soft for side arm drives, at least for me.

[two5twosix9]

I will probably check it out and see what happens. From my field test the mako went about 20 feet further then my rocs at the same angle because of the extra glide. It was however mucheasier to get straight and is equally good for sweeping hyzers and consistant turnovers.
I'm not a huge fan of soft plastic but we will see what happens with the dart. Thanks dave.

[two5twosix9]

I will probably check it out and see what happens. From my field test the mako went about 20 feet further then my rocs at the same angle because of the extra glide. It was however mucheasier to get straight and is equally good for sweeping hyzers and consistant turnovers.
I'm not a huge fan of soft plastic but we will see what happens with the dart. Thanks dave.

[one19]

Originally Posted by YourBOB

I was wondering why Innova doesnt mark thier disc in the mold. It is so annoying to get an old dis, or one that has the marking gone.
I mean discraft marks thier disc on the inside rim, so why doesnt innova.
It sure would take the guessing game out of figuring out what disc you have.
Thanks

I, and several other players, absolutely DESPISE Discraft's interior rim raised mark, and DO NOT like gripping on it, nor having to adjust our grip to miss it.

[John Keith]

hey just thinking outloud. but Xcaliber is a great name for a disc, and BeoWolf was the original xcaliber story so i think that would be a cool disc name...

[mf100forever]

Originally Posted by kvdiscpro

hey just thinking outloud. but Xcaliber is a great name for a disc, and BeoWolf was the original xcaliber story so i think that would be a cool disc name...

... and Grendel too,....

[ishkatbible]

Originally Posted by one19

I, and several other players, absolutely DESPISE Discraft's interior rim raised mark, and DO NOT like gripping on it, nor having to adjust our grip to miss it.

that could pose a problem for me as well... (depending on the location of the rim mark) i have a little case of o.c.d. where the stamp must be facing me as if i was just looking at it to read it. if the rim of my disc has a scratch that affects the comfort of my grip, where i can't read the stamp perfectly, i simply take the disc out of my bag.

had that problem with a couple of discraft discs that i tried. the mark on the rim was in just the exact wrong place where "I" couldn't throw it.

however, ink on the rim would be no different from where a lot of people mark their names, and that would work out just fine. especially when people are trying to dye a disc, or for just clean looks.

[ishkatbible]

what's the deal with the "roger"? did i miss that post or were people on dgrus just toying with us?