Ask Chuck Kennedy - Page 63

krupicka · Oct 27 2009, 04:41 PM

This annoyance has been noted for years....

cgkdisc · Oct 27 2009, 04:55 PM

Just hasn't gotten to the top of the tech priorities yet to fix.

bravo · Oct 27 2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERicJ

Chuck,

On the PDGA posted tournament (schedule)/results why are players' personal ratings not locked to the value they were at the time the event was held?

It's confusing and misleading to go back to my first tournament as a PDGA member when I was playing 820 golf in MA3 and see my current 930 rating next to my name.

http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=7530&include_ratings=1#Recreational

i have wondered the same thing. old results are locked why are the old rating at the time of the yourny not locked?

krupicka · Oct 28 2009, 08:09 AM

The rating shown is a lookup to your current database entry. Because the designers are following a principle of not storing duplicate data, they have elected to not store the players rating at the time of the event with the event. Of course, they also overlook the fact that the players name is stored with the event thus they have already violated that principle.

lund98502 · Oct 28 2009, 04:23 PM

How do you calculate the AHP for an individual their Per Hole Index and AHS?

Sorry if this is covered in an earlier post or thread.

cgkdisc · Oct 28 2009, 04:39 PM

Those details are not being made available.

flynvegas · Oct 29 2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

The first group of players were inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1993. Here's the HOF website: http://www.discgolfhalloffame.org/dghof-members.html

The website doesn't have photos yet and I'm not sure there are photos online anywhere. Contact Speedy at: speedyinga at aol.com He would have the original artwork and might be able to supply PDF files of the disc artwork and also indicate where you could buy the discs. I'm pretty sure he has stock from recent years available.

Chuck,
Thx for the lead, only 5 more to complete a set. I found pix of most of them at disc golf traders http://onedrive.org/kc/kc_set.htm

cgkdisc · Oct 29 2009, 12:55 PM

Due to your request and a few others, Speedy our HOF administrator is looking into getting the photos posted online when he can get to it.

dischick · Oct 29 2009, 02:19 PM

Chuck,

I was just looking at my rating history. I have played one sanctioned event this year which was in september. both rounds were above my rating. with the most recent updates (Oct 20th), my rating did not change. Is it wrong to be under the assumption that if I shoot above my rating than my rating would increase?

cgkdisc · Oct 29 2009, 02:52 PM

You would think it might go up but remember that when new rounds are added, some old rounds are usually dropped. I looked at what was dropped and it was four rounds from Sep 2007 that all had ratings higher than your current and previous rating. So your new slightly higher rated rounds essentially replaced the four that were dropped and you ended up the same.

bruce_brakel · Oct 29 2009, 06:14 PM

Hey, Jen! I just noticed that you and Kiralyn are now tied!

ChrisWoj · Oct 29 2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERicJ

Chuck,

On the PDGA posted tournament (schedule)/results why are players' personal ratings not locked to the value they were at the time the event was held?

It's confusing and misleading to go back to my first tournament as a PDGA member when I was playing 820 golf in MA3 and see my current 930 rating next to my name.

http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=7530&include_ratings=1#Recreational

I like it how it is. I like being able to go back to my old tournaments and look at all the people that were pro back then, see who still has a higher rating than me, who I've caught or passed...

bruce_brakel · Oct 29 2009, 11:06 PM

Both would be nice, I think. There's plenty of room for another 4 digit column.

AviarX · Nov 01 2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce_brakel

Both would be nice, I think. There's plenty of room for another 4 digit column.

yes, that will appease the stat lovers and make ratings more prominent!

having member ratings appear above or below their avatar would also promote the ratings system

switzerdan · Nov 01 2009, 06:54 PM

I've got some questions concerning ratings that I hope you can answer. We've been using the rating calculator in Switzerland for the past two seasons to try and get an approximate rating for people who don't play outside the country.

Some background facts: We have a significant number of players that, for lack of a better word, suck. We play a lot of tournaments on courses that are only 12 holes or are 14 holes. We've tried to update our local ratings after every tournament we have because we only have 8 a year that we decided to use for these ratings.

We've noticed that the ratings we're getting are consistently higher than the ratings players get from the PDGA - especially for the better players. On average, I'd say they are about 1% higher.

My theories to explain this are as follows:

1) The significant number of bad players are raising the ratings for the better players.

2) The lower number of holes is somehow influencing the ratings

3) Our courses are in the lower range of SSA and this affects the ratings somehow

4) We update the ratings too often.

Could you comment and tell me what you think could be happening? I realize that you have limited data to work with here, but any advice would be helpful.

cgkdisc · Nov 01 2009, 08:46 PM

Having lower number of holes is going to create a wider swing in high to low ratings but the overall average should be the same. In the U.S., the number of under-rated amateur players who are improving quickly can tend to depress ratings. If you are only seeing 1% difference, that alons might be enough to do it. The other thing you didn't mention is whether you disallow a player who shoots more than 60 points below their rating from being used as a propagator in the the SSA rating calculation? That will tend to boost ratings compared to not including them.

flynvegas · Nov 02 2009, 09:40 AM

Chuck,
Is the 44X fastback approved for Super Class?

Thx

cgkdisc · Nov 02 2009, 09:43 AM

All fastback molds up to 200g are approved for Super Class.

switzerdan · Nov 02 2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

The other thing you didn't mention is whether you disallow a player who shoots more than 60 points below their rating from being used as a propagator in the the SSA rating calculation? That will tend to boost ratings compared to not including them.

The problem with this is that the spreadsheet is password protected and some values can't be changed. My only options are to convince you to send me the password or to get one of my IT buddies to hack the program!

cgkdisc · Nov 02 2009, 10:08 AM

Once you see a propagator has a local rating more than 60 points less than their rating, just delete their PDGA rating from the sheet where the scores are entered. That removes them asa propagator. They will still get a local rating for the event just like any other player who didn't have a rating.

switzerdan · Nov 02 2009, 10:12 AM

And this is why we come to you with these questions...I'll give it a try and see what I can come up with.

Thanks!

switzerdan · Nov 02 2009, 10:18 PM

3 more quick questions:

1) The most recent 25% of rounds are double weighted. Rounded up or rounded down? For example, it's clear that with 28 rounds 7 are double weighted. But with 27 rounds (6.75), do you double 6 or 7 rounds? What about 26 rounds (6.5)? 25 rounds (6.25)?

2) If a player has 28 total rounds that would be considered for ratings purposes (giving 7 double weight), but 4 of his/her rounds aren't used (more than 2.5 standard deviations or 100 points below rating), are 7 rounds still doubled or does it drop to 6?

3) If a player completes 2 rounds of a tournament and then DNFs because he doesn't play the last round or two, are the first two rounds still used for ratings?

Thanks again!

cgkdisc · Nov 02 2009, 10:25 PM

Not allowed to answer 1 and 2. Yes to question 3.

the_kid · Nov 03 2009, 12:25 AM

Just was looking over the ROY stats and Brad Williams' Major rating is 999 from USDGC but shouldn't he have worlds listed where he shot at least 1030? He also shot 1033 this weekend at an A-tier to probably move up a bit but I figured I'd mention it to see if an error had been made.

Also if this means anything he is the highest finishing player at worlds with a sub 1000 rated round and with a 976 is the highest finishing by far with a round that far under 1000.

ChrisWoj · Nov 03 2009, 02:31 AM

AW! You took my workaround! Dang you I used that to find ratings of non-currents for unsanctioned events.

ChrisWoj · Nov 03 2009, 02:34 AM

If I have 12 rounds with a group of players averaging 916.6666 shooting an average round of 50.25 over 18 holes, what is the likely ratings spread? 14 points per stroke? 12? 11? Would SSA be around 42?

-Chris.

switzerdan · Nov 03 2009, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

Not allowed to answer 1 and 2. Yes to question 3.

Interesting. Why aren't you allowed to answer 1 and 2?

Could you answer them privately in a PM? I'll take whatever dark oaths are necessary to ensure you that the secret stays safe.

cgkdisc · Nov 03 2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Just was looking over the ROY stats and Brad Williams' Major rating is 999 from USDGC but shouldn't he have worlds listed where he shot at least 1030?

Worlds is a separate factor that is used to determine final standings but not whether players make the final six. USDGC is his best Major/NT/ET excluding Worlds.

Quote:

AW! You took my workaround! Dang you I used that to find ratings of non-currents for unsanctioned events.

Must be just part of the website database upgrades.

ChrisWoj · Nov 03 2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj

If I have 12 rounds with a group of players averaging 916.6666 shooting an average round of 50.25 over 18 holes, what is the likely ratings spread? 14 points per stroke? 12? 11? Would SSA be around 42?

-Chris.

^--- not allowed to answer that?

cgkdisc · Nov 03 2009, 12:39 PM

Find a course with an SSA like you suspect and see if the round ratings match the scores in the event record it was generated from. http://www.pdga.com/course-ratings-by-course

Oct 27 2009, 04:55 PM	#1862
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Just hasn't gotten to the top of the tech priorities yet to fix. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Oct 28 2009, 04:23 PM	#1865
lund98502 PDGA Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1	Average Hole Par How do you calculate the AHP for an individual their Per Hole Index and AHS? Sorry if this is covered in an earlier post or thread.

Oct 28 2009, 04:39 PM	#1866
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Those details are not being made available. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Oct 29 2009, 12:55 PM	#1868
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Due to your request and a few others, Speedy our HOF administrator is looking into getting the photos posted online when he can get to it. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Oct 29 2009, 02:52 PM	#1870
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	You would think it might go up but remember that when new rounds are added, some old rounds are usually dropped. I looked at what was dropped and it was four rounds from Sep 2007 that all had ratings higher than your current and previous rating. So your new slightly higher rated rounds essentially replaced the four that were dropped and you ended up the same. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Oct 27 2009, 04:41 PM	#1861
krupicka PDGA Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,423	This annoyance has been noted for years....

Oct 28 2009, 08:09 AM	#1864
krupicka PDGA Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,423	The rating shown is a lookup to your current database entry. Because the designers are following a principle of not storing duplicate data, they have elected to not store the players rating at the time of the event with the event. Of course, they also overlook the fact that the players name is stored with the event thus they have already violated that principle.

Oct 29 2009, 02:19 PM	#1869
dischick Community Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 779	Chuck, I was just looking at my rating history. I have played one sanctioned event this year which was in september. both rounds were above my rating. with the most recent updates (Oct 20th), my rating did not change. Is it wrong to be under the assumption that if I shoot above my rating than my rating would increase?

Oct 29 2009, 06:14 PM	#1871
bruce_brakel PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dying More Discs Posts: 5,571	Hey, Jen! I just noticed that you and Kiralyn are now tied! __________________ Circuit court staff attorney - 25 years. My judge must retire. Looking for employment.

Oct 29 2009, 11:06 PM	#1873
bruce_brakel PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dying More Discs Posts: 5,571	Both would be nice, I think. There's plenty of room for another 4 digit column. __________________ Circuit court staff attorney - 25 years. My judge must retire. Looking for employment.

Nov 01 2009, 06:54 PM	#1875
switzerdan PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wiesendangen, Switzerland Posts: 281	I've got some questions concerning ratings that I hope you can answer. We've been using the rating calculator in Switzerland for the past two seasons to try and get an approximate rating for people who don't play outside the country. Some background facts: We have a significant number of players that, for lack of a better word, suck. We play a lot of tournaments on courses that are only 12 holes or are 14 holes. We've tried to update our local ratings after every tournament we have because we only have 8 a year that we decided to use for these ratings. We've noticed that the ratings we're getting are consistently higher than the ratings players get from the PDGA - especially for the better players. On average, I'd say they are about 1% higher. My theories to explain this are as follows: 1) The significant number of bad players are raising the ratings for the better players. 2) The lower number of holes is somehow influencing the ratings 3) Our courses are in the lower range of SSA and this affects the ratings somehow 4) We update the ratings too often. Could you comment and tell me what you think could be happening? I realize that you have limited data to work with here, but any advice would be helpful. __________________ 3 reasons why you should convert to Flying Spaghetti Monsterism: 1) Flimsy Moral Standards; 2) Every Friday is a religious holiday; 3) Our heaven is WAY better. We've got a Stripper Factory and a Beer Volcano!

Nov 01 2009, 08:46 PM	#1876
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Having lower number of holes is going to create a wider swing in high to low ratings but the overall average should be the same. In the U.S., the number of under-rated amateur players who are improving quickly can tend to depress ratings. If you are only seeing 1% difference, that alons might be enough to do it. The other thing you didn't mention is whether you disallow a player who shoots more than 60 points below their rating from being used as a propagator in the the SSA rating calculation? That will tend to boost ratings compared to not including them. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Nov 02 2009, 09:40 AM	#1877
flynvegas PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 1,449	Chuck, Is the 44X fastback approved for Super Class? Thx

Nov 02 2009, 09:43 AM	#1878
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	All fastback molds up to 200g are approved for Super Class. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Nov 02 2009, 10:08 AM	#1880
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Once you see a propagator has a local rating more than 60 points less than their rating, just delete their PDGA rating from the sheet where the scores are entered. That removes them asa propagator. They will still get a local rating for the event just like any other player who didn't have a rating. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Nov 02 2009, 10:12 AM	#1881
switzerdan PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wiesendangen, Switzerland Posts: 281	And this is why we come to you with these questions...I'll give it a try and see what I can come up with. Thanks! __________________ 3 reasons why you should convert to Flying Spaghetti Monsterism: 1) Flimsy Moral Standards; 2) Every Friday is a religious holiday; 3) Our heaven is WAY better. We've got a Stripper Factory and a Beer Volcano!

Nov 02 2009, 10:18 PM	#1882
switzerdan PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wiesendangen, Switzerland Posts: 281	3 more quick questions: 1) The most recent 25% of rounds are double weighted. Rounded up or rounded down? For example, it's clear that with 28 rounds 7 are double weighted. But with 27 rounds (6.75), do you double 6 or 7 rounds? What about 26 rounds (6.5)? 25 rounds (6.25)? 2) If a player has 28 total rounds that would be considered for ratings purposes (giving 7 double weight), but 4 of his/her rounds aren't used (more than 2.5 standard deviations or 100 points below rating), are 7 rounds still doubled or does it drop to 6? 3) If a player completes 2 rounds of a tournament and then DNFs because he doesn't play the last round or two, are the first two rounds still used for ratings? Thanks again! __________________ 3 reasons why you should convert to Flying Spaghetti Monsterism: 1) Flimsy Moral Standards; 2) Every Friday is a religious holiday; 3) Our heaven is WAY better. We've got a Stripper Factory and a Beer Volcano!

Nov 02 2009, 10:25 PM	#1883
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Not allowed to answer 1 and 2. Yes to question 3. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Nov 03 2009, 12:25 AM	#1884
the_kid PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Livingston(Hicksville),Tx Posts: 7,285	Just was looking over the ROY stats and Brad Williams' Major rating is 999 from USDGC but shouldn't he have worlds listed where he shot at least 1030? He also shot 1033 this weekend at an A-tier to probably move up a bit but I figured I'd mention it to see if an error had been made. Also if this means anything he is the highest finishing player at worlds with a sub 1000 rated round and with a 976 is the highest finishing by far with a round that far under 1000. __________________ Southern Nationals - best events for players who like a true "Non-profit" and a real Finale www.Discraft.com Last edited by the_kid; Nov 03 2009 at 12:31 AM.

Nov 03 2009, 02:31 AM	#1885
ChrisWoj PDGA Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 2,387	AW! You took my workaround! Dang you I used that to find ratings of non-currents for unsanctioned events.

Nov 03 2009, 02:34 AM	#1886
ChrisWoj PDGA Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 2,387	If I have 12 rounds with a group of players averaging 916.6666 shooting an average round of 50.25 over 18 holes, what is the likely ratings spread? 14 points per stroke? 12? 11? Would SSA be around 42? -Chris.

Nov 03 2009, 12:39 PM	#1890
cgkdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 6,220	Find a course with an SSA like you suspect and see if the round ratings match the scores in the event record it was generated from. http://www.pdga.com/course-ratings-by-course __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

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