Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[davei]

Originally Posted by eclipseram

Dave, any word on when that test run on the R-pro Polecats will happen?

Hopefully, this week.

[Trey133]

Weaves and Phily Phil Phil got some of the prettiest rocs i've ever seen... and I was 6th in line

Those pure embossed glow's are NIIIIIICE.

[weaves]

i saw 3 of the 5 embossed glows. mine is ice colored. the other 2 i saw were more yellow but there was very little difference. i heard one of them sold Saturday for $250. I also heard the 10 stars were going for $150ish.

[bpait]

Can anyone tell me which Champion/Star bosses are flippy. I have a 167 star boss and it is so far from flippy it is almost as overstable as a firebird. Would love to find one but not really sure what I am looking for. thanks

[Drew32]

Originally Posted by bpait

Can anyone tell me which Champion/Star bosses are flippy. I have a 167 star boss and it is so far from flippy it is almost as overstable as a firebird. Would love to find one but not really sure what I am looking for. thanks

Look for the flat ones. The domey ones are the overstable ones.

[bpait]

Thank you

[Breeze]

Originally Posted by Drew32

Look for the flat ones. The domey ones are the overstable ones.

Flat Champs are flippy

[dgdave]

Heavier star bosses also flip more

[ChrisWoj]

Originally Posted by FizzyP

When you can throw a 550' hyzer like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL2RNcy0_qo

all kinds of discs are "squirly".

That hole isn't 550'. I LOLed reading the description on the page. I've thrown to within 20 feet of that hole on the hyzer line and I can get 500+ only if I put at least a shallow S on the disc. No way in hell that's more than 480'.

[futurecollisions]

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj

That hole isn't 550'. I LOLed reading the description on the page. I've thrown to within 20 feet of that hole on the hyzer line and I can get 500+ only if I put at least a shallow S on the disc. No way in hell that's more than 480'.

I agree with this, id say its 450-480

[mikeP]

Dave,

I have a question regarding the stabilization process that you mentioned some time ago. Have you done this with Champ Orcs? I'm just wondering because I have thrown many Champ Orcs since they came out and fairly recently I started to find ones that are really stiff, domey, and high speed stable. Is it safe to assume these have been "stabilized"? Are domey/stiff characteristics of the stabilized discs in general? I am wondering because this is something I look for in most my Champ discs and this would make them easier to pick out of a stack before I spend my $$. Thanks as always!

[davei]

Originally Posted by mikeP

Dave,

I have a question regarding the stabilization process that you mentioned some time ago. Have you done this with Champ Orcs? I'm just wondering because I have thrown many Champ Orcs since they came out and fairly recently I started to find ones that are really stiff, domey, and high speed stable. Is it safe to assume these have been "stabilized"? Are domey/stiff characteristics of the stabilized discs in general? I am wondering because this is something I look for in most my Champ discs and this would make them easier to pick out of a stack before I spend my $$. Thanks as always!

We have used the process for Night Shift Orcs and Champion Orcs. They are stiffer, but I am not sure about the dome on the Orcs. The Champion bosses that were stablized did have a nice dome.

[JohnLambert]

I'm confused. I've been trying to find a 'go to' driver for a long time now. I though the max pro destroyers were the answer, but I can't control them anymore. As soon as I let go they start flipping. I tried the max champ Xcals for awhile and found it was just a fairway driver in disguise. So I went to the max first run Boss. Wow. Awesome discs. I lost it and can't find another one. I bought the second wave "stabilized" bosses and I just can't get them dialed in right. I bought a R-pro destroyer and it was a good disc for about 3 days, then turned to mush. So I went back and decided to season up a max weight stable champion boss. I think I finally worked it in as my primary driver. Unfortunately it's a little squirrely sometimes, with the slightest breeze I'll flip it to the right too much. It seems as my arm has developed I have lost touch with good distance drivers. Should I just tone it down a bit or is their a disc that I can rip on, get great D, and not have to replace it every month?

FYI: I took 6 discs out to an open area with a slight breeze blowing. Here are my results:

6mph tailwind
Pro destroyer - threw with extreme hyzer but flipped to extreme anhyzer. roughly 300'
R-pro boss - threw with some hyzer, flipped and ended up finishing to the right, but not as bad as destroyer. 350'
Champion Xcal - Threw flat to slight anny, disc flipped straight for 350', then finished on a hyzer. 380'
Champion Boss - Threw with a slight hyzer, disc flipped up to slight anny, flew straight for 400', then finished slight hyzer. Total distance 435'

Similar results in head wind, but everything flipped a little more and I lost 20 feet distance on longest drive.

So as you can see the seasoned boss is my primary for distance, but it took me awhile to get it in shape. I'm excited to try the Pro Boss, hoping they come out with a max weight of 175g.

[gippy]

Originally Posted by JohnLambert

I'm confused. I've been trying to find a 'go to' driver for a long time now. I though the max pro destroyers were the answer, but I can't control them anymore. As soon as I let go they start flipping. I tried the max champ Xcals for awhile and found it was just a fairway driver in disguise. So I went to the max first run Boss. Wow. Awesome discs. I lost it and can't find another one. I bought the second wave "stabilized" bosses and I just can't get them dialed in right. I bought a R-pro destroyer and it was a good disc for about 3 days, then turned to mush. So I went back and decided to season up a max weight stable champion boss. I think I finally worked it in as my primary driver. Unfortunately it's a little squirrely sometimes, with the slightest breeze I'll flip it to the right too much. It seems as my arm has developed I have lost touch with good distance drivers. Should I just tone it down a bit or is their a disc that I can rip on, get great D, and not have to replace it every month?

FYI: I took 6 discs out to an open area with a slight breeze blowing. Here are my results:

6mph tailwind
Pro destroyer - threw with extreme hyzer but flipped to extreme anhyzer. roughly 300'
R-pro boss - threw with some hyzer, flipped and ended up finishing to the right, but not as bad as destroyer. 350'
Champion Xcal - Threw flat to slight anny, disc flipped straight for 350', then finished on a hyzer. 380'
Champion Boss - Threw with a slight hyzer, disc flipped up to slight anny, flew straight for 400', then finished slight hyzer. Total distance 435'

Similar results in head wind, but everything flipped a little more and I lost 20 feet distance on longest drive.

So as you can see the seasoned boss is my primary for distance, but it took me awhile to get it in shape. I'm excited to try the Pro Boss, hoping they come out with a max weight of 175g.

Try a Champ Destroyer I find they are consitent right out of the box. May take a bit a field practice but it should work well for you

[MischiefMKR]

Well are you sure you are not flipping ur wrist when you are goin through ur followin thru ur body i had the same thing happen to me when i first started. An in a head wind a disc will get more understable I throw a Champ boss for hyzer headwind shots. My go to is a Wraith i have 3 of em

[davei]

Originally Posted by davei

The new disc will not be like the Groove, in that it won't have a groove. I don't know how it will fly exactly until it is molded in the plastic we settle on. That being said, I expect it to fly with more turn than a Groove. I can't predict the low speed return yet. If testing goes well in late October, it might start production then or later in the year. We have a tentative name, but don't want to release it yet.

I have been testing the Katana over the weekend. It has more turn than the Groove in Pro driver plastic, which is what has been made so far, along with test shots of Champion and R-Pro.

So far, the Pro Katanas look pretty good for distance challenged throwers, hyzer flip at less than max power, and power rollers. Power rollers can throw flat to slightly turned over and let the disc do the work. Power throwers should probably pass on this disc except for specific uses such as high turnovers and rollers.

The Katana in all three plastics tested so far is more speed sensitive than all of our other high speed drivers. This basically means it will flip considerably more into the wind than down wind. The R-Pro Katana is flippier than the R-Pro Boss and flippier than the Pro Katana, so it probably won't go into general production. The relative wind speed sensitivity makes assigning a turn number a little challenging, but for 400+ft throwers the turn for Pro will be at least a -3. For 350 ft max throwers, the turn will be less, (except into a wind). And, I don't recommend throwing these into a wind. Tentative flight numbers are: 13, 5, -3, 3.


Testing of normal Champion was unimpressive, compared to Pro, but the addition of the stabilizing process might change that. Though we haven't tested it in Starlight as yet, I believe that will prove successful.

The Pro will probably come out at the end of the year in general release. Before then, a limited amount of Pro, and a very limited amount of Champion and R-Pro will be available through Herodiscusa as a fundraiser for the Japan Open.

[John Keith]

Originally Posted by gippy

Try a Champ Destroyer I find they are consitent right out of the box. May take a bit a field practice but it should work well for you

i agree go throw a champ destroyer, you should get almost the D of boss with more feel and better controllability

[mikeP]

Originally Posted by kvdiscpro

i agree go throw a champ destroyer, you should get almost the D of boss with more feel and better controllability

"Feel" and "controllability" are pretty subjective to your personal experience. I threw Champion Destroyers for a while, but as soon as the DF Champ Boss came out I found it better for me in every way. That being said, I don't find any disc faster than speed 10 particularly good as a "go-to" disc for line shaping.

[cgkdisc]

The Katana has been added to the PDGA list of Approved discs.
http://www.pdga.com/tech-standards

[20460chase]

Hi Dave,

Awhile back I asked about a Whippet-X I got. Heres the picture, form another thread on here. Its at the bottom. Any input?

Also, how bout them Zephyrs?

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showt...29#post1399029

[davei]

Originally Posted by 20460chase

Hi Dave,

Awhile back I asked about a Whippet-X I got. Heres the picture, form another thread on here. Its at the bottom. Any input?

Also, how bout them Zephyrs?

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showt...29#post1399029

No Zephyrs yet. Still catching up on inventory. The Whippet-X is from Roger Curley of Oak Grove Park, (now Hahamongna Watershed Park), Pasadena, California. It was done several (5+?) years ago. I don't remember the exact plastic. The little figure in the background appears to be a stylized
Oak Grove Gopher

[FizzyP]

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj

That hole isn't 550'. I LOLed reading the description on the page. I've thrown to within 20 feet of that hole on the hyzer line and I can get 500+ only if I put at least a shallow S on the disc. No way in hell that's more than 480'.

You're totally right. I shouldn't have trusted the comment next to the original video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL2RNcy0_qo

I just measured it with Google Maps and got ~450. Even if you measure the actual flight path and give it some generous curvature you can barely get over 500'.

[FizzyP]

Originally Posted by JohnLambert

6mph tailwind
Pro destroyer - threw with extreme hyzer but flipped to extreme anhyzer. roughly 300'
R-pro boss - threw with some hyzer, flipped and ended up finishing to the right, but not as bad as destroyer. 350'
Champion Xcal - Threw flat to slight anny, disc flipped straight for 350', then finished on a hyzer. 380'
Champion Boss - Threw with a slight hyzer, disc flipped up to slight anny, flew straight for 400', then finished slight hyzer. Total distance 435'.

I'm no pro, to be sure, but the inconsistency in these results makes me think disc selection is not the problem. Especially the first shot. You threw a Pro destroyer and it went from extreme hyzer to near roller and only went 300'? Even if the disc was beat to death the only way I can imagine this happening is if you shank it straight into the ground!

Then you throw a nice S-curve with champ boss, 435' ? Are you sure about these measurements?

What happens when you try to throw hyzer shots with putters or midranges in the 250'+ range? Do you have success with this?

Also, the X-Cal is a fairway driver in disguise? ... What?! That disc is ridiculously fast! I have no idea what you're talking about. You should explain.

[dehaas]

Hi Dave, I'd just ordered a pro starfire and was suprised when my shipment arrived that it felt more like star plastic than pro. The plastic felt real nice, but felt nothing like any other pro starfire, or any other pro plastic for that matter. Is the blend for pro plastic being tweaked, or is this just an oddball run? I haven't had a chance to throw it much...just in the field next door to my place, and it feels more overstable than my other pro starfires also. I could be wrong, but weren't the first pro starfires from the SL mold...are the new ones still from the mold, or from the standard starfire mold? Thanks a lot.

[LastBoyScout]

Dave, i was cleaning out some boxes and found a Pro Line (champion plastic) Beast and a Champion 2003 Barry Schultz beast that i thought i had lost, and apparently misplaced.

Upon taking them out to the field, they were stable compared to my 2X Champ Beasts and Star Beasts.

Did the mold get changed a while back, and I just didnt notice?

Thanks,

LBS

[JohnLambert]

Originally Posted by FizzyP

I'm no pro, to be sure, but the inconsistency in these results makes me think disc selection is not the problem. Especially the first shot. You threw a Pro destroyer and it went from extreme hyzer to near roller and only went 300'? Even if the disc was beat to death the only way I can imagine this happening is if you shank it straight into the ground!

The disc landed on it's right edge and rolled in a circle. If I had thrown it higher it would have certainly gone further in the wrong direction.

Then you throw a nice S-curve with champ boss, 435' ? Are you sure about these measurements?

This one I am certain of, this particular area has a basket that is marked 425' from the tee. The tee signs were laser measured by a friend of mine. I threw past the basket roughly 10 feet. I didn't actually measure how far past the basket, but I can deduct that I had an easy putt and not a drop-in.

What happens when you try to throw hyzer shots with putters or midranges in the 250'+ range? Do you have success with this?

No success. However, I have had success with the WASP and DRONE. My poor upshot form only allows me to throw stable midrange discs. If I need to go the other direction I just sidearm.

Also, the X-Cal is a fairway driver in disguise? ... What?! That disc is ridiculously fast! I have no idea what you're talking about. You should explain.

Not to be taken seriously. I'm just not a fan of the Xcal. I have one in my bag that I use for headwind hyzers only. Even when I get what seems to be a good S curve out of it I can not throw it anywhere near my distance drivers. I called it a fairway driver because I throw it when I only need a 300-350 foot accuracy shot.

[dgdave]

The beast was changed a while back. Its now an L type mold. It overlapped with the Orc too much.

[FizzyP]

Originally Posted by JohnLambert

No success. However, I have had success with the WASP and DRONE. My poor upshot form only allows me to throw stable midrange discs. If I need to go the other direction I just sidearm.

Once again, I'm no pro, and I'm not trying to be mean either. But I'm pretty sure it's not just the upshots. I bet if you put the effort into learning how to throw clean laser-beams and hyzers shots with putters and midranges in the 250'-300' range your driver problems will go away as well. It sounds like you're throwing with lots of off axis torque. Even worse, it seems like the amount of OAT is variable and not under your conscious control.

The exreme hyzer shots turning over MORE is the surest sign. Your conscious mind sets up super hyzer because you think the disc is going to turn over. But then when you actually throw your unconscious is aware that you've put a silly about of hyzer on the disc and attempts to correct it... which results in immediately turning the disc over like mad.

Definitely, work on throwing straight and hyzer shots with putters with lots of spin. Once you can do that you'll find the drivers behave totally different.

[FizzyP]

Originally Posted by davei

Testing of normal Champion was unimpressive, compared to Pro, but the addition of the stabilizing process might change that.

What do you mean by "unimpressive"?

[davei]

Originally Posted by FizzyP

What do you mean by "unimpressive"?

All it had, from my point of view, was speed. The glide wasn't as good as the Pro, and the turn wasn't as playable for me. Steve Wisecup, had a different opinion though. He was doing independent testing and determined he liked the Champion version over the Pro. The difference might be that he is a flat to anhyzer thrower, and I am a hyzer thrower. He liked the added stability and speed of the Champion. I didn't. I believe the middle ground will be with Star, but we won't know until we get back to running them again. Right now, we don't have time.