Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[LastBoyScout]

Originally Posted by AviarX

I really like Star Destroyers, but am curious about Champs. Are they more or less stable? how do they compare to the Star?

I find it depends on the dome. In plastic terms, my champs are more stable. I have flat star and champs and domey stars and champs. the flat ones i can hyzer flip and gets some killer D out of. The domey ones I use in the wind or when I need to throw a 400+ skip shot. Most stable thing in my bag is not an Excal... oh no... its a super domey champ destroyer.

[davei]

Originally Posted by AviarX

Hi Dave,

I really like Star Destroyers, but am curious about Champs. Are they more or less stable? how do they compare to the Star?

Hi Rob,

Champs are molded to be more stable out of a more stable plastic, but stuff happens sometime. I only throw Star Destroyers, and lighter weights at that. I try to get Destroyers that have a little turn to them. Last time I got new Star Destroyers, they didn't have any initial turn and I am still beating them to get what I want. Of course, I am not throwing over 400 ft at all, right now. More like 380, so I may not be stressing the stability enough.

[davei]

Originally Posted by LastBoyScout

Alright Dave,

Thanks for the reply on my last question. I guess i just prefer Champ over Star in most cases as I find it beats in far less

That actually brings me to my next question.

This could just be scuttlebutt from around the Innova water cooler, but rumor has it that Innova is looking to start remaking CE or a very hard/durable CE like plastic again.

Can you shed any light?

Also, a buddy of mine has a Discraft Rattler. I like playing catch with it, but i find Innova more consistent than Discraft. (I know most people claim the opposite, maybe i just know what to look for from mold to mold/plastic to plastic)

Is there anything in the Innova line that flies as close? Ive tried the Aero, love the disc but its just so dang FAST! The Sonic was way to flippy. Im wanting something to throw those nice air bounces/floats/stalls for approach shots. Your suggestion would be helpful and appreciated.

We have been trying to reproduce the original CE plastic, but the manufacturer that produced it, stopped and we haven't found a true substitute yet.

The slowest straightest discs we produce are The Birdie and Polecat. After that, it would probably be the Zephyr, which is a much larger diameter disc.

[AviarX]

Originally Posted by 20460chase

I dont know about Pearl [Champ Orcs] being in the 1st runs. To the best of my memory they were all cloudy clear, the pearls came after. I could be wrong, but I still have a stack of them, all with the belly button and the lack of pigment fully through the rim.

I don't know what exactly you refer to when you differentiate pearl from cloudy -- i know all the Ch. Orcs that I got when Orcs *first* came out were pearlier or cloudier than the subsequent clear runs which I didn't care for being prone to hyzeritis and air bounce city.

the ones I like were the first runs. I don't have as much nuanced differentiation knowledge of the runs though as you apparently have so please enlighten. Were the Pearl after the clear and the cloudy first? How do i distinguish a Cloudy from a pearlescent? timeline?

[AviarX]

Originally Posted by davei

Hi Rob,

Champs are molded to be more stable out of a more stable plastic, but stuff happens sometime. I only throw Star Destroyers, and lighter weights at that. I try to get Destroyers that have a little turn to them. Last time I got new Star Destroyers, they didn't have any initial turn and I am still beating them to get what I want. Of course, I am not throwing over 400 ft at all, right now. More like 380, so I may not be stressing the stability enough.

I am throwing 169g Star X-outs from Mark and love the hyzer D they yield -- it's amazing. They do seem to want to flip when thrown hard without pure hyzer; however I recently traded for some heavier ones and will see how they react...

I am about to buy some R-Pro Aviars -- unless you have an ETA for R-Pro JK Aviar-x's? Another vote for R-Pro Orcs too...

[davei]

Originally Posted by AviarX

I am throwing 169g Star X-outs from Mark and love the hyzer D they yield -- it's amazing. They do seem to want to flip when thrown hard without pure hyzer; however I recently traded for some heavier ones and will see how they react...

I am about to buy some R-Pro Aviars -- unless you have an ETA for R-Pro JK Aviar-x's? Another vote for R-Pro Orcs too...

The R-Pro JKs are being made now. They are not as soft as the R-Pro Aviars though. We couldn't get them to hold their shape well softer. Unfortunate for the real soft fans.

We do have two alternatives to the JK. One is the P2, and the other is the RP Dart. The P2 is in between the JK and the RP Aviar. The Dart is, in my opinion, the truest flying putter and approach disc we have, though it might be a little faster than an Aviar.

[dgdave]

The P2s are great. Its like a beadless Aviar X with almost all the stability.

[Birdie]

What molds have been made in Echo Green Plastic to date?

The ones I know of for sure are:

XCal, Destroyer, Wraith, Monarch, Leopard, Kite, San Marino Roc, and Aviar Driver.

I guess I am collecting them...

[dgdave]

There are some eagles at Marshall Street in the Natural Beauties section that look real close to Echo.

[dgdave]

Like this

[MurdocLoch]

Dave,

i've seen a very starish blend of DX plastic, it's very stiff and tacky and more durable than traditional DX plastic. i've seen it a few times in rocs and now today in an Aviar Driver, but it always was on a custom stamped disc. also no city on the bottom... i guess this is what people are referring to as the WWW mold? what i want to know is how can i get some more rocs in this plastic short of showing up at tourneys and hoping that those are the rocs you guys printed for them...

[davei]

Originally Posted by Birdie

What molds have been made in Echo Green Plastic to date?

The ones I know of for sure are:

XCal, Destroyer, Wraith, Monarch, Leopard, Kite, San Marino Roc, and Aviar Driver.

I guess I am collecting them...

Groove and TeeBird are two more. I don't have the entire list.

[davei]

Originally Posted by MurdocLoch

Dave,

i've seen a very starish blend of DX plastic, it's very stiff and tacky and more durable than traditional DX plastic. i've seen it a few times in rocs and now today in an Aviar Driver, but it always was on a custom stamped disc. also no city on the bottom... i guess this is what people are referring to as the WWW mold? what i want to know is how can i get some more rocs in this plastic short of showing up at tourneys and hoping that those are the rocs you guys printed for them...

As for how you can get these now; I guess you just have to ask your dealer for them specifically.

The newer DX plastic is sometimes mixed with R-Pro to give it more grip and durability. It has been getting incorporated into many of the DX models. We are still experimenting to get the best results. Feedback like this helps, thanks. The chief problem has been getting them to cycle. DX needs to cycle automatically (with very few rejects) to keep the cost down.

[bpait]

Dave,

Would there be any chance the rhyno will be made in the R-pro wood plastic mix? Even better an eco gummmy mix for star rhynos? If not, is there any plans to release the gummy star rhynos to general release?

Thanks

[davei]

Originally Posted by bpait

Dave,

Would there be any chance the rhyno will be made in the R-pro wood plastic mix? Even better an eco gummmy mix for star rhynos? If not, is there any plans to release the gummy star rhynos to general release?

Thanks

No plans for R_Pro Wood or Eco gummy at this point. We do have plans for Gummy Star Rhynos. I believe some have already been released.

[20460chase]

Originally Posted by AviarX

I don't know what exactly you refer to when you differentiate pearl from cloudy -- i know all the Ch. Orcs that I got when Orcs *first* came out were pearlier or cloudier than the subsequent clear runs which I didn't care for being prone to hyzeritis and air bounce city.

the ones I like were the first runs. I don't have as much nuanced differentiation knowledge of the runs though as you apparently have so please enlighten. Were the Pearl after the clear and the cloudy first? How do i distinguish a Cloudy from a pearlescent? timeline?

All the ones I feel are firsts are cloudy clear. They are straight stable with minor fade.They have small color bursts through the flight plate, and have a belly button indention on the top. They also have something similar to stretch marks around the center, like old batchs of CE. If Im correct your talking about the flat top second runs, they were PEARL-like plastic. They looked pearly all through, similar to say the lighter 11x KC Teebirds, whereas only some of the firsts had pearl bursts, depending on the color of plastic. If it was white or lighter in color, the streaks or color bursts took on a pearl look. The colors I have make them look more like liquid bursts than the pearl type. They were not opaque though, but not exactly clear. There was a later run done, after the pearls os something, for arguements sake, say 3rd run. Those were almost glass clear, but lack the belly button and stretch marks. On alot of the ones Ive had, so Id assume most have this trait, the topside of the nipple will peel a bit, almost like shedding skin. That isnt the case with the later runs, only the firsts. They also didnt have the bursts. The color in the later clears didnt extend all the way to the farthest end of the rim either. They would be a small fraction of clear.

The pearls have swirls on the bottom side of the rim that almost look like injection points. Its tough to explain but if you have them in hand pretty easy. I still have the first Orcs I bought, and that was when they came out. I could be wrong though, no doubt.

[gippy]

Don't shot me but man we get to into what runs look like what and which runs are better etc etc. It's funny to read how this person likes the clear champion and this person prefers the pearly ones over the slight clear ones. And "can you make gummy this and not that" it cracks me up. I just want the orginal CE back thats all nothing more. My bag consist of about 5-6 CE fairway drivers and some 9X and 10X Kc Pro Teebirds (very CEish) I'd kill for a Destroyer in CE closest to it so far is the Echo Stars JMO

[dangle]

Dave (or dgdave),

Can you fill in the blank?

A PD would take my ___________ out of the bag.

[gokayaksteven]

z-pred

[davei]

Originally Posted by dangle

Dave (or dgdave),

Can you fill in the blank?

A PD would take my ___________ out of the bag.

Could be a number of discs from our line up including Firebird, TeeBird, Banshee, and Starfire.

[dgdave]

Originally Posted by davei

Could be a number of discs from our line up including Firebird, TeeBird, Banshee, and Starfire.

It took out my Teebird, after about 9-10 years of them being in my bag. I don't see a need for any of the other discs that Dave listed with a PD in the bag. The FB could also be used as the PDs aren't that overstable, but I like to shape the line more than throw something really overstable.

[futurecollisions]

Dave,

I really like the heavy R-Pro Boss (around 168-170), how can i continue to get them now that most of the US Masters versions are all gone? Will i have to wait for regular pro bosses to get these weights, or will you make some heavier R-pro bosses soon?

[davei]

Originally Posted by futurecollisions

Dave,

I really like the heavy R-Pro Boss (around 168-170), how can i continue to get them now that most of the US Masters versions are all gone? Will i have to wait for regular pro bosses to get these weights, or will you make some heavier R-pro bosses soon?

While we don't intend on making the heavier weights, some will be available just because of molding errors.

[vadiscgolf]

Hi, I have a 10x kc pro aviar that is missing the short range driver on the stamp and I was wandering if you knew anything about these? I't's dark white (cream colored), anything special about this? Thanks

[dgdave]

Its an earlier run of them.

[DSproAVIAR]

Originally Posted by vadiscgolf

Hi, I have a 10x kc pro aviar that is missing the short range driver on the stamp and I was wandering if you knew anything about these? I't's dark white (cream colored), anything special about this? Thanks

First run, I think. Black stamp?
The plastic is very similar to 9x Aviar plastic.

[Banzai]

The speed 6 and speed 8 ranges seem a little empty. The trend in fairway drivers these days seems to be faster, and slightly larger diameter (e.g. CD, Striker, Stalker). I'd love to see a faster teebird-type disc ( 8, 6, 0, 1 ) or something like that. Or a slower Eagle-X (6, 4, -1, 3).

Got anything revolutionary cooking?

[20460chase]

Originally Posted by DSproAVIAR

First run, I think. Black stamp?
The plastic is very similar to 9x Aviar plastic.

They were different variants. I have a softer and a stiff version of both the 9 and 10. The one being posted about I have has a black stamp, and is softer.

[mitchjustice]

Will the R-Pro Boss be re-produced in the current plastic????

20 years of disc golf.....and this is the worst plastic ever...but then it goes farther than any disc I have ever thrown...I am torn

I gave away 5 of the ones I had put big gashes in the rim(145-153g).....all to kids under 11 years old

1 kid(9) played his first 9 holes ever with one and 3ed the last 3 holes(Kyle 11-12-13)

On the flip side I had to re-buy 5 and give away 5 out of the 25 I bought...so I am still torn on the value of this plastic

[gokayaksteven]

i think regular dx or stiff kc plastic would make these light ones better.