Card Placement

[MicahMoonWinters]

1st - Most TD's assign the first round randomly giving up-and-comers a chance to play with the best perhaps. Others sort cards by rating. I would like to know what everyone prefers.

2nd - The second round placement, in a tie situation, varies at each tourney. Some TD's just go with the first name they see, yet at Worlds it's either who shot the better round or who has the lowest PDGA#. I would like to know what everyone prefers.

If we rap up the loose ends in the game we love, it will gain the respect it deserves.

Moon

[cgkdisc]

If players are tied after two or more rounds and one shot the better previous round, they must be ranked higher for the next round pairings. If players are tied for every round, then the TD has a choice. At Worlds, lower PDGA# is used but any consistent method used for the whole event is legal.

[exczar]

If you don't like the card you are on, you can go to another one, as long as you leave at least three people on the card you left. That's a loose end that may need to be (w)rapped up as well, since there is nothing in the rules or comp. manual that prevents it.

[august]

Originally Posted by exczar

If you don't like the card you are on, you can go to another one, as long as you leave at least three people on the card you left. That's a loose end that may need to be (w)rapped up as well, since there is nothing in the rules or comp. manual that prevents it.

There are many things not specifically prohibited by the rules, but that doesn't mean they are permitted. Common sense dictates that this is an inappropriate thing to do. Even so, not everyone has common sense, so it's likely to happen.

[discette]

Originally Posted by exczar

If you don't like the card you are on, you can go to another one, as long as you leave at least three people on the card you left. That's a loose end that may need to be (w)rapped up as well, since there is nothing in the rules or comp. manual that prevents it.

I disagree with this statement. After the first round, players are grouped by how well they shot in the previous round. This IS set (indirectly) by rule 804.07A. You can't just decide you don't want to play on the last card and play on the lead card instead. In my opinion, changing cards without approval of the TD would be an example of unsportsmanlike conduct and as such, subject to DQ.


The TD specifically has the power to set the cards for the players. In my opinion, I would consider purposely moving to another card because someone doesn't like the people they are playing with or they don't want to start on Hole XX, as unsportsmanlike conduct. A true sportsman would play on the card they were assigned and would overcome personality differences or accept the TD's decisions and play on the hole farthest from tourney central.


At events where players are playing in foursomes, you cannot simply decide to leave your card and create a fivesome. This has the potential to disrupt the entire event and slow down play for everyone which is potentially covered in the Comp Manual by 3.2A


I strongly suggest players don't try changing cards at events I run without checking with me first. I am willing to work with players that have true issues. One time I had a player that had a KNOWN aversion/allergy to cigarette smoke and ended up on a card with two heavy smokers. We found a player on the next card down, willing to play up and everyone was happy.

As a player, if you really have a problem with the card the TD or the scores put you on, see the TD and maybe they can work something out for you. Please don't assume you can change the card you are on at your own whimsy just because someone on the message board says so.

[johnbiscoe]

i dislike sorting round 1 by rating quite a bit if it means the top guys all playing together. i do like the way dodge does it at marshall street where the top guy is on 1, second highest on hole 2, 19th guy on hole 1, 20th guy on hole 2, etc.

locally we use the zadareky rule for sorting ties when round scores are the same- inverse alphabetical order. i figured ted had been going last at stuff his whole life due to his name starting with "z" so i started doing it that way.

[exczar]

A little background,

I had somebody tell me that they could change cards, and what I told them what fairly close to what discette said, that the TD could find an extension of some rule to penalize such action.

I didn't make the post to troll, I just wanted to see what others thought about that action without an objective question.

I think Chuck's lack of response shows that he knew that I wasn't really serious. Discette, I am so glad to see you stand up for the Rules and common sense, sorry to get you riled up. I thought you might have seen enough of my other posts to know that I wasn't advocating anarchy, or maybe you have seen my previous posts and thought it went along with my general thoughts

But as you said, no one should take anything as gospel that they read here!

[gnduke]

But there is enough of a lack of a directly applicable rule and penalty that it probably should be addressed.

I lean toward a general two stroke misplay rule that would cover course misplays not specifically covered under the current misplay rules.

It is certainly not doing what is expected under the rules (grouping) to qualify for a courtesy violation.

[rhett]

I'm going to change cards to wherever I want at my next tourney. A former president of the PDGA posted on the official PDGA website that it a legal thing to do, so I'm going to do it.

[bruce_brakel]

Originally Posted by exczar

If you don't like the card you are on, you can go to another one, as long as you leave at least three people on the card you left. That's a loose end that may need to be (w)rapped up as well, since there is nothing in the rules or comp. manual that prevents it.

If you don't start on the hole assigned to you, I think the TD could stroke you for failing to play the course in the stipulated order. Try it at an IOS and we'll see. If you start on that hole by waiting for the next group to come along, you're getting par + 4.

[gnduke]

It would make rushing from the parking lot to your assigned hole when you are late different. You would only have to rush to the nearest hole on the correct course.

[krupicka]

I find this discussion rather amusing after the recent discussion on whether or not the players should take it upon themselves to adjust their grouping when confronted with the possibility that their third card mate is AWOL.

[gnduke]

the two topics intertwine nicely, don't they?

[discette]

Originally Posted by rhett

I'm going to change cards to wherever I want at my next tourney. A former president of the PDGA posted on the official PDGA website that it a legal thing to do, so I'm going to do it.

Whew! I am glad World's is your next tourney and not the Sunrise Showdown.

[rhett]

Originally Posted by discette

Whew! I am glad World's is your next tourney and not the Sunrise Showdown.

..

[chappyfade]

Originally Posted by rhett

I'm going to change cards to wherever I want at my next tourney. A former president of the PDGA posted on the official PDGA website that it a legal thing to do, so I'm going to do it.

Ummm....to my knowledge, there's only been ONE president of the PDGA, and he's still current. There were COMMISSIONERS before that, but no presidents.

Cheers,

The last Competition Director

[exczar]

Originally Posted by chappyfade

Ummm....to my knowledge, there's only been ONE president of the PDGA, and he's still current. There were COMMISSIONERS before that, but no presidents.

Cheers,

The last Competition Director

You are correct, Sir, that's why my handle is not exprez.

I caught that when I read it as well, but I wasn't going to say anything, because I knew what he meant, and he IS a fellow DGRZ.

[Flash_25296]

Originally Posted by MicahMoonWinters

1st - Most TD's assign the first round randomly giving up-and-comers a chance to play with the best perhaps. Others sort cards by rating. I would like to know what everyone prefers.

2nd - The second round placement, in a tie situation, varies at each tourney. Some TD's just go with the first name they see, yet at Worlds it's either who shot the better round or who has the lowest PDGA#. I would like to know what everyone prefers.

If we rap up the loose ends in the game we love, it will gain the respect it deserves.

Moon

It seems like this is covered in the PDGA Competition Manual Section 1.6
and Section 1.9
http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/08CompetitionManual.pdf

I don't think it is consulted as often as the rule book!

[discette]

You could also apply 801.02A - Order of play.

[rhett]

Originally Posted by chappyfade

Ummm....to my knowledge, there's only been ONE president of the PDGA, and he's still current. There were COMMISSIONERS before that, but no presidents.

Cheers,

The last Competition Director

D'oh!

That ain't right. I like busting people on technicalities, not getting busted on them!

[keithjohnson]

Originally Posted by johnbiscoe

locally we use the zadareky rule for sorting ties when round scores are the same- inverse alphabetical order. i figured ted had been going last at stuff his whole life due to his name starting with "z" so i started doing it that way.

I've been using the Zaderecky rule since 1999 after playing the Virginia Open at every Event I run, and now alot of the TD's in Georgia are using it also.
Players see it 6 times a year minimum at my events, and it actually throws me off when I'm helping people with the boards and they DON'T use it.

[gnduke]

I got to a point of using the second and third digits of the PDGA numbers when we did 10+ events a year to keep from always putting the same groups together.

for example my number of 9426 would become 42 for sorting the initial round.

[bruce_brakel]

Originally Posted by gnduke

I got to a point of using the second and third digits of the PDGA numbers when we did 10+ events a year to keep from always putting the same groups together.

for example my number of 9426 would become 42 for sorting the initial round.

I don't get how that is going to produce a different result from alphabetical. At every tournament you are going to be "42" and so will the other 42s, so whenever they show up, you're playing with them, just like Zadarecky playing with Zandstra.

It will produce a result that is seemingly random to those who want a random draw, but is also has a system to it so you can have an excuse for not making designer groups.

In Iowa, players with 00 for their two digits might not like this system so much.

[rhett]

When I was a TD...I would figure out how many I had in each division and what holes those divisions would be on, and then I would literally throw the leaderboard cards down the stairs. Next I oudl go to the bottom and work my back up picking them up as I went. Then I'd go to the leaderboard and load them, whoever was on top went to the first spot for that division and fill it in that way.

I figured that as random as I could get. It still pisses me off when they seed the MPO pools at Worlds by rating because that isn't random at all.

[gnduke]

It isn't random, but it was different from the order produced by PDGA number and by first name. When we were doing an event each month it required that we use more than one system.

Then I added a random number generator to my scoring program to produce real random groupings within each division and got some groupings that seemed anything but random.

go figure

[keithjohnson]

Originally Posted by bruce_brakel

I don't get how that is going to produce a different result from alphabetical. At every tournament you are going to be "42" and so will the other 42s, so whenever they show up, you're playing with them, just like Zadarecky playing with Zandstra.

Not always - as with 42 and 42 splitting 2 cards, you can still play personal favorite, but Zandstra will ALWAYS be ahead of Zadarecky. - with same last names, you go with first names next - that way it will ALWAYS be set without predjudice or "randomness". I've done it that way for over 10 years and not only do people NOT complain about it, other TD's in the state are using it for their Events also.

Besides reverse alphabetical is waaaay cooler as it freaks out the new players trying to figure out how the board is set.

[exczar]

I worked with a guy whose last name was Zwit. He was looking forward to the day when he was at a function and there was somebody behind him alphabetically. I know that such people exist, but does anybody have an acquaintance who would fall behind a Zwit?

[veganray]

I dated a chick Gabriella Zyto back in prep school (20+ years ago).

[dobbins66]

Originally Posted by discette

I disagree with this statement. After the first round, players are grouped by how well they shot in the previous round. This IS set (indirectly) by rule 804.07A. You can't just decide you don't want to play on the last card and play on the lead card instead. In my opinion, changing cards without approval of the TD would be an example of unsportsmanlike conduct and as such, subject to DQ.
.

I think there is one other rule to prevent players from changing cards (And yes I know anything can be argued). 801.04 (B-05). If the TD set you to start on hole #5 and you take it upon yourself to start on hole #6 in a different group then in MY opinion you have not "played the holes in the correct order" as assigned by the TD.

[eupher61]

Originally Posted by dobbins66

i think there is one other rule to prevent players from changing cards (and yes i know anything can be argued). 801.04 (b-05). If the td set you to start on hole #5 and you take it upon yourself to start on hole #6 in a different group then in my opinion you have not "played the holes in the correct order" as assigned by the td.

bing bing bing!!!