Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[davei]

Originally Posted by cduncan

Hey Dave, does a dome really make a disc more stable? Or does it have something to do with the wing? I prefer flat discs because they feel better in my hand and don't seem to get pushed around in the wind as much. But I have heard a lot of people say that domes make discs stable, but have not noticed it myself. thanks!

The dome doesn't have much to do with high speed stability, but does help with low speed stability. The position of the wing has much more to do with hss. That being said, cooling can have a lot to do with both of these and one can influence the other with respect to final shape.

The confounding variable is the shrink rate of the flight plate vs the shrink rate of the rim vis a vis different plastic. Flat discs are made when the rim shrinks relatively less or the plate shrinks relatively more. Flat discs tend to shrink with nose up attitudes on the wind. Domey tend to shrink with nose down, but as we have seen with the longer wing discs, that doesn't hold true any more.

[MurdocLoch]

Dave,

Sorry if this was asked, I couldn't find it... All of thee 12x KC Aviars I have, have a larger diameter then my 10x and 11x Aviars. Did the mold change?

M

[gokayaksteven]

Hi Dave-
I think I asked this before, but do you have a timeframe for regular pro bosses? should they be able to get down to 167 or so?
thanks

[davei]

Originally Posted by MurdocLoch

Dave,

Sorry if this was asked, I couldn't find it... All of thee 12x KC Aviars I have, have a larger diameter then my 10x and 11x Aviars. Did the mold change?

M

I am not sure exactly when we went to the blunter nosed Aviar Driver mold, but that would be the time when it would have changed. However, the diameter didn't change, just the nose shape.

[exczar]

Originally Posted by MurdocLoch

Dave,

Sorry if this was asked, I couldn't find it... All of thee 12x KC Aviars I have, have a larger diameter then my 10x and 11x Aviars. Did the mold change?

M

If the mold changed, the "new" Aviar would have to be resubmitted to Tech Standards. Check the document to see if it shows those discs as being different.

More likely is that they were made from different plastic, with different shrink rates.

[davei]

Originally Posted by gokayaksteven

Hi Dave-
I think I asked this before, but do you have a timeframe for regular pro bosses? should they be able to get down to 167 or so?
thanks

We have not scheduled regular Pro Bosses as yet as we don't have time, and won't for at least two months. However, there is a possibility that we could do a short run for something like the Worlds before that. At this time, regular Pro would only be able to get down to around 172gms. Starlight Bosses are the only Bosses of the urethane type to get down to 167gms.

We are testing a new material type that may allow Pro Bosses to get down to 170 gms, but not much lower than that.

[drdisc]

I really wish you all would us the term "stable" to indicate a super straight flight. When you all say more stable, you mean more "overstable", but no one sems to like the word.
A Frisbee flies flat , that is "stable". A Firebird is "overstable" Some time it is hard to understand just what everyone really means. A Roadrunner and SW are "Understable" , not less stable. Please lets' get the terminology correct so everyone understands.

[davei]

Originally Posted by drdisc

I really wish you all would us the term "stable" to indicate a super straight flight. When you all say more stable, you mean more "overstable", but no one sems to like the word.
A Frisbee flies flat , that is "stable". A Firebird is "overstable" Some time it is hard to understand just what everyone really means. A Roadrunner and SW are "Understable" , not less stable. Please lets' get the terminology correct so everyone understands.

We need to develope a different language as we can't be correct using aerodynamic language meant for a wing, referring to disc flight. Aerodynamics has stable vs unstable. Those are insufficient for disc flight description. We have high speed and low speed descriptions of instability that don't really work.

Stable for high speed works fine, but unstable would refer to any non stable flight including over stable, a term we coined. (as a side note, imo, less stable or understable are just fine). The problem is really with the unstable type we describe as over stable.

It gets a little more off from wing aerodynamics when we describe the low speed instability as over stable. This is more like a combination of stall and over stability. The term "fade" is sometimes used here.

I do agree that over stability, in lieu of a better term, does help to differentiate from stability meaning straight and stable. This would help to differentiate between discs that are stable at certain speeds, (eg. Roadrunners, Sidewinders, etc) and discs that are stable at all speeds except stall (fade) speeds, (TeeBirds, Rocs, Aviars, Cros) etc.

I never really liked "fade" as it conflicts with the term fade used in ball golf. I've used crash, dive, or stall to describe that phenomenon to my students as it seems to be more in accordance with my conception of the stalling effect. Nevetheless, we do differentiate different low speed stalling with the term fade as we haven't as yet come up with a more accepted term.

[dgdave]

I just picked up 2 S and 2 P PD's and I must say that these ROCK!!! All the ones I got were the new run with the Freak logo.

How do the domier S Freak ones compare to the flatter 1st run non-freak PDs?

Thanks Dave!

[davei]

Originally Posted by dgdave

I just picked up 2 S and 2 P PD's and I must say that these ROCK!!! All the ones I got were the new run with the Freak logo.

How do the domier S Freak ones compare to the flatter 1st run non-freak PDs?

Thanks Dave!

I only have much experience with the S type. The S-type are both similar. The both fly like a faster slightly more overstable TeeBird. The new type might be slightly better for sidearm.

[dgdave]

Will Discmania discs get ran in a champion-type plastic?

[Furthur]

I would love a Champ-type PD. I'd also like to echo dave's feelings with the PD. The S has a lot of resistance to turn while flying pretty straight with a predictable fade. The P is a thing of beauty once it gets beat in a little; it flips up a tiny amount and really locks into a straight path. This disc is one of the most controllable distance discs I've thrown in a while.

Are there plans to run the CD in the Pro plastic?

[dgdave]

That's waht I was thinking with the PD. A version of it with a little extra beef in it.

[davei]

Originally Posted by Furthur

I would love a Champ-type PD. I'd also like to echo dave's feelings with the PD. The S has a lot of resistance to turn while flying pretty straight with a predictable fade. The P is a thing of beauty once it gets beat in a little; it flips up a tiny amount and really locks into a straight path. This disc is one of the most controllable distance discs I've thrown in a while.

Are there plans to run the CD in the Pro plastic?

We have no plans to run any Discmania in Champion plastic. Discmania has a new line called the Performance line that is similar to our Driver Pro. The PD, CD, and DD have been made and are available. The CD has not been stamped yet.

[davei]

Sorry if I confused anyone with my previous answer about Discmania.

[dgdave]

Dave,

The owner of the Play it Again Sporsts said that when he tried to order KC Aviars that someone at Innova told him that this would be his last chance to get them because KC plastic was going to be discontinues. I asked if he meant JK, as this would make sense with R-Pro out now, and he said that JK would still be ran and its KC being discontinued.

I was just wondering about the truth to this as the KC Aviar seems to be the putter amoung pros.

[tokyo]

Originally Posted by dgdave

Dave,

The owner of the Play it Again Sporsts said that when he tried to order KC Aviars that someone at Innova told him that this would be his last chance to get them because KC plastic was going to be discontinues. I asked if he meant JK, as this would make sense with R-Pro out now, and he said that JK would still be ran and its KC being discontinued.

I was just wondering about the truth to this as the KC Aviar seems to be the putter amoung pros.

everything i have heard states that kc pro aviars will be discontinued alon with the roc, and whippet that are made in those plastics.

[gippy]

Originally Posted by tokyo

everything i have heard states that kc pro aviars will be discontinued alon with the roc, and whippet that are made in those plastics.

Okay the aviar I can deal with the Whippet to but discontinuing the KC PRO ROC WTF???
Dave say it isn't so. WHy would Innova do this. They have a good line going and then drop it dosen't make sense to me. They always seem to cut out the good stuff. IMO the R-Pro stuff is like cheap DX plastic.

[two5twosix9]

I really hope this is not true!

[davei]

Originally Posted by dgdave

Dave,

The owner of the Play it Again Sporsts said that when he tried to order KC Aviars that someone at Innova told him that this would be his last chance to get them because KC plastic was going to be discontinues. I asked if he meant JK, as this would make sense with R-Pro out now, and he said that JK would still be ran and its KC being discontinued.

I was just wondering about the truth to this as the KC Aviar seems to be the putter amoung pros.

Not true for the KC Aviar and KC Roc. This might have been true two years ago when the material was supposed to be discontinued, but that changed and we have a ready supply. We have discontinued the KC Whippet and I believe there was one other model too. However the KC Aviar and KC Roc will continue as long as we can get the material.

[klittle08]

Dave,

I recently started putting more X versions into my bag (i.e. Whippet-x and Eagle-x.) My question is how many X versions of discs are still in production? I know the Whippet-X and Eagle-X I just picked up from places with recent orders. I know I've heard of people talk about Firebird-X's and Max-X's but what still currently exists for ordering and are they available in all the same plastics as the regular mold usually? (i.e. Eagle-Star, Champ, Glow, DX)

[Furthur]

Originally Posted by davei

We have no plans to run any Discmania in Champion plastic. Discmania has a new line called the Performance line that is similar to our Driver Pro. The PD, CD, and DD have been made and are available. The CD has not been stamped yet.

Thanks for the info about the CD. I really found a lot of use out of those 2 drivers, and hope your partnership with Discmania stays successful.

[Furthur]

Originally Posted by klittle08

Dave,

I recently started putting more X versions into my bag (i.e. Whippet-x and Eagle-x.) My question is how many X versions of discs are still in production? I know the Whippet-X and Eagle-X I just picked up from places with recent orders. I know I've heard of people talk about Firebird-X's and Max-X's but what still currently exists for ordering and are they available in all the same plastics as the regular mold usually? (i.e. Eagle-Star, Champ, Glow, DX)

As far as non CFR discs, if a disc has a "L" model (EL, TL, FL, SL), then there's a corresponding "X" model (Eagle, Teebird, Firebird, Starfire). In general, L molds have a flat wing shape, and X molds have a concave wing shape.

[davei]

Originally Posted by klittle08

Dave,

I recently started putting more X versions into my bag (i.e. Whippet-x and Eagle-x.) My question is how many X versions of discs are still in production? I know the Whippet-X and Eagle-X I just picked up from places with recent orders. I know I've heard of people talk about Firebird-X's and Max-X's but what still currently exists for ordering and are they available in all the same plastics as the regular mold usually? (i.e. Eagle-Star, Champ, Glow, DX)

Some of the discs come in X versions already although in the past there were some non X versions. Eagles, Firebirds, and Monsters are only made in X versions at this point. Whippet-X is only currently produced as such no matter what material it is made of. Max only comes in one version although there was an X version at one time. TeeRex now only comes in the more stable version, but used to say TeeRex X. Sometimes we make more stable versions of Destroyers, Boss, Orc, etc., but we refer to those as enhanced stability. We do have more over stable discs such as Banshees and XCalibers too.

[Rodney Gilmore]

So is the current Teerex the same version as the first run big star stamps?

[20460chase]

Are the Champion Glo Cobras as domey as the Champion Glo Whippet-Xs? Thanks.

Also, how do you get your own X-Out stamp? And also, is this the reason Ive only been able to get Pro Wraith x outs for the last month from the East Coast? Id have to guess you must have alot of x-outs to get a custom x out stamp. Any insight here Dave?

[davei]

Originally Posted by Rodney Gilmore

So is the current Teerex the same version as the first run big star stamps?

No the current Teerex went through several changes to come back close to the original, but it is slightly more stable.

[davei]

Originally Posted by 20460chase

Are the Champion Glo Cobras as domey as the Champion Glo Whippet-Xs? Thanks.

Also, how do you get your own X-Out stamp? And also, is this the reason Ive only been able to get Pro Wraith x outs for the last month from the East Coast? Id have to guess you must have alot of x-outs to get a custom x out stamp. Any insight here Dave?

The C Glo Cobras are fairly domey.

I am not sure what the policy is regarding X out stamps. I don't know why you can't get more X-outs. We have plently and we probably always will given the reject rate of molding. Some models are more available than others. We are currently grinding up over 20,000 x-parts that we have accumulated over several years. That won't hurt the availability as we continue to make them.

[gippy]

Dave,

Any chance of a star Gazelle coming out?? or champ

[dgdave]

Are there any new Innova or Discmania discs in the works?