DG around the 'Burgh

[sandalbagger]

Lori and I are both going to Hall of Chains. As are Mike Hoeg and Kira I believe.

I think there will be quite a few of us there.

[sandalbagger]

KB, Lori and myself all signed up this morning. Matt McMillan should be signing up today as well. Hurry before it fills if you are planning on going.

[SCOTT]

I signed him up last night. Can't wait to get out there!

[matty$mcmillion]

wow three years and im finally able to post a message. hall of chains was sweet even though i played like crap.. courses are sweet. not a great pittsburgh showing out there though. but at least i came home to some good news.... aint that right mr poole..

[kUrTp]

Originally Posted by matty$mcmillion

wow three years and im finally able to post a message. hall of chains was sweet even though i played like crap.. courses are sweet. not a great pittsburgh showing out there though. but at least i came home to some good news.... aint that right mr poole..

Great...I wish that three years would have turned into four years.

[gotcha]

Here's what's going on around the 'burgh this weekend:

Moraine Monthly ~ Saturday, May 23 (10:00 am start)

Seven Springs ~ Sunday, May 24 (11:00 am start)

Women's League at Knob Hill ~ Monday, May 25 (6:30 pm start)

The Lakeview Beach concession stand will be open at Moraine this weekend! Burgers, hot dogs, ice cream!

As for Seven Springs Ski Resort, if you haven't played this mountain course you don't know what you're missing! Players ride the Polar Bear Express lift to the top and play holes 1-9 down the mountain......players then take the same lift up top to jump onto the back nine! Lift tickets are cheap, too.......$6.00 will get you two lift rides to play the 18-hole layout. You won't throw golf shots like this anywhere else in the Mid-Atlantic! Course designed by J Gary Dropcho in July 2008. Need I say more?

Check out Seven Springs website here:

http://www.7springs.com/page/categor.../nav/5096.html

Also, I posted several images of the Seven Springs course on the Pittsburgh Photos thread. Click the link below and scroll up to post #43:

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showt...31#post1363531

[gotcha]

From the desk of Tom Baumgardner:

If you haven’t heard of Pa. Senate bill 850 you need to pay attention. Why, you ask? Remember two years ago when they closed all of our state parks for a day, well it could get a lot worse. Senate bill 850 which did pass plans to close at least 35 of our state parks and close at least 1000 miles of state forest roads. This has not passed the house nor has it been signed by the governor, but with a huge budget shortage this is not the place to save money.

Write your state representatives, write the editor of your paper, get involved now, so that this does not become a reality. Moraine State Park, McConnell’s Mill State Park and Jennings are not yet safe. Presque Isle State park and Ohiopyle State are supposedly safe but there is also talk about possibly closing all of our state parks for one year. See the DCNR news release below. Thank-you for your help.

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/news/newsreleases/2009/0509-budget.htm

[gotcha]

Please, please, please....

Take a moment out of your busy day to contact (email or phone) your local representative and ask them to vote against SB 850 and the closure of state parks / forests within the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

Here's the link to the PA House of Representatives:

http://www.house.state.pa.us/index.cfm

In the upper-right corner you will see search windows.....find your representatives by zip code or county. Call or email these legislators who represent us! Ask them to keep our state parks and forests open to the public!

[gotcha]

Moraine was cut twice this week.......course looks fantastic!

[gotcha]

The Moraine Monthly was awesome yesterday! 30 players showed up and the weather was perfect. I'll eventually post the scores over the next couple of days, but I will say that I witnessed Chris Deitzel tear it up by shooting a -10 under par 56....bogey-free to boot! Good shootin', Chrissy!

Gotta quit typing....headed out to play some disc golf in them thar hills!

[Jeff_LaG]

Originally Posted by gotcha

As for Seven Springs Ski Resort, if you haven't played this mountain course you don't know what you're missing! Players ride the Polar Bear Express lift to the top and play holes 1-9 down the mountain......players then take the same lift up top to jump onto the back nine! Lift tickets are cheap, too.......$6.00 will get you two lift rides to play the 18-hole layout. You won't throw golf shots like this anywhere else in the Mid-Atlantic! Course designed by J Gary Dropcho in July 2008. Need I say more?

Check out Seven Springs website here:

http://www.7springs.com/page/categor.../nav/5096.html

Also, I posted several images of the Seven Springs course on the Pittsburgh Photos thread. Click the link below and scroll up to post #43:

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showt...31#post1363531

Well, I was supposed to come out and play the course tomorrow but my ride had to cancel. Grrr...

[sandalbagger]

Just got back from 7 springs. Shot a 61. Matt Miao shot a 60 his first time there. Once again, someone almost got killed on hole 3. Can't wait for that hole to get moved. THis time Carl Vesch through his disc through the chairlift and ended up on the mountain bike trail!!

[Jeff_LaG]

Originally Posted by sandalbagger

Just got back from 7 springs. Shot a 61. Matt Miao shot a 60 his first time there. Once again, someone almost got killed on hole 3. Can't wait for that hole to get moved. THis time Carl Vesch through his disc through the chairlift and ended up on the mountain bike trail!!

Chris, I'm a little confused...J. Gary told me on Wednesday that the hole was already moved.

In the meantime, I really don't see why there are so many problems. J. Gary and Gunkel landed in the circle with putters, and I threw a monster hyzer wayyy out to the right with a Firebird that ended up about 50 long but had no chance to cause any safety hazards.

My ride canceled on me and I'm out for tomorrow btw..grrr.

[sandalbagger]

J Gary has redesigned the hole, but the anchor has not been put in the ground yet so we are still playing the original hole.

Well KB threw a ROC all the way down to 9's basket from 3's tee and he's been playing 30 + years!!! Carl VEsch through his beast with hyzer which then flipped and flew all the way through the chairlift, over the alpine slide and landed on the MTB trail.


In all honesty this entire course is the most dangerous I have ever seen or played.

Dave Olcott almost got hit on Goosebumps from an errant shot from Alanna on the corkscrew hole.

The hole after goosebumps, the tee is so close to the basket of the goosebumps hole, that someone is bound to get killed teeing off down while a shot comes screaming down the mountain.

The tee after the corkscrew hole is too close to the basket of the corkscrew hole.

There are numerous other instances where this is just a bad design from a safety standpoint.


Jerry, and the rest of our group kept calling this course "A lawsuit waiting to happen"

It's not if someone gets hit by a disc out there, it's just when.


And for the record, my shot I threw on hole 3 last year did end up landing all the way down by the lodge. I actually was given the disc back by the pro shop.


With all the room out there, I think some serious consideration needs to be used in redesigning a few of these holes. I don't want to see anyone get killed.

If 950+ players are having trouble, just think of the new players!!


But I did almost have a skip ace on hole 4. Hit the yellow band.


Believe me I love this course, but it's justa matter of time before someone gets hurt out there. I know I don't want to get hit from a disc coming down that mountain.

[sandalbagger]

It should also be noted that 2 drives hit condos on hole 10!!!! Luckily they only hit the rock parts and not windows or people sitting on their back porch.

Alao there was a shot on hole 14 that would have for sure broken a window in a condo if not for a pine tree that grabbed the disc at the last second.

[sandalbagger]

make that 3 drives on hole 10 hit condos. I was just informed that one of our 970+ rated players also hit a condo on hole 10.

[gotcha]

May 24, 2009 ~ Open Division ~ Seven Springs Mountain Resort Disc Golf Course

Hole	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	OUT	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	IN	TOTAL
Blue Tee	384	540	483	840	255	351	297	278	586	4014	855	270	309	289	909	810	549	174	810	4975	8989
Par	3	4	3	5	3	3	3	4	4	31	4	3	3	3	5	4	3	3	5	33	64
Matt "Chu" Miao	3	4	3	5	3	3	3	2	4	30	4	3	3	2	4	4	3	2	5	30	60
Chris Deitzel	2	3	3	5	2	4	2	3	4	28	4	3	2	3	5	4	4	3	5	33	61
Kurt Poole	3	3	3	5	2	3	3	2	4	28	4	2	3	3	5	5	3	2	6	33	61
Scott Heintzleman	3	4	3	4	2	4	3	3	4	30	4	2	3	3	5	3	4	3	6	33	63
Jerry Gotcher	3	4	3	4	3	3	3	3	5	31	4	2	4	3	5	4	3	3	5	33	64
Dave Olcott	3	4	3	5	3	4	3	3	4	32	5	2	3	3	5	3	4	3	6	34	66
Sid Olcott	2	4	3	5	2	4	2	3	4	29	4	6	3	3	5	3	4	2	7	37	66
Eric Bonazza	3	6	4	5	3	4	3	2	4	34	5	2	3	3	5	4	4	3	6	35	69
Tim Wright	3	4	3	5	3	4	4	3	4	33	4	3	3	4	5	5	3	2	7	36	69
KB Clark	3	5	7	5	3	3	4	3	3	36	3	2	3	4	5	4	3	3	6	33	69
Robin White	2	3	4	4	3	6	3	3	5	35	5	3	5	3	6	4	3	3	6	38	71
Carl Vesch	3	4	7	5	3	4	3	3	4	36	4	4	3	3	6	7	4	2	6	39	75
Lori Merriman	3	5	3	5	4	4	5	4	4	37	4	4	3	4	6	7	4	3	6	41	78
Alanna Poole	4	6	3	5	5	4	3	3	4	37	5	5	4	5	7	4	4	2	6	42	79

I haven't laughed that often during a golf round as I did yesterday at Seven Springs. Carl's drive on hole 3 that lifted and soared downhill through the chairlifts, over the Alpine Slide and onto the bike trail was just the beginning. It was funny to hear Carl say "oh my god..." a couple of times as his disc continued to fly down the mountain, but it quickly became scary once everyone realized that Innova Beast could have seriously injured someone. Breathing a sigh of relief after seeing Carl's disc land on the bike trail next to the Polar Bear chair lift, it was once again comical watching him truck down the slope, climb over the two Alpine slides and then cross over the bike trail to his lie. Poor guy.....he was totally out of breath after playing back up that hillside to the green.

More funny stuff......Robin's tee shot on Hole 6 (Corkscrew) that s-bombed its way out and across the fairway and green of Hole 15 (Goosebumps) and eventually across the road and into the forest beyond. Not sure if he ever found that disc. Carl and Dave's condo drives on hole 10 and, of course, the near miss of the large vaulted ceiling windows on Hole 14 (I bet many of those condo owners dislike disc golf). Alanna's tee shot on Corkscrew that nearly took Dave's head off while we where looking for a disc in the knee-high grass on Goosebumps (the knee-high grass definitely sucked).

Funny stuff for sure....

[gotcha]

By the way, good shooting, Chu! That 60 from the blue tees just might be the official course record!

[Jeff_LaG]

Originally Posted by sandalbagger

J Gary has redesigned the hole, but the anchor has not been put in the ground yet so we are still playing the original hole.

Well KB threw a ROC all the way down to 9's basket from 3's tee and he's been playing 30 + years!!! Carl VEsch through his beast with hyzer which then flipped and flew all the way through the chairlift, over the alpine slide and landed on the MTB trail.


In all honesty this entire course is the most dangerous I have ever seen or played.

Dave Olcott almost got hit on Goosebumps from an errant shot from Alanna on the corkscrew hole.

The hole after goosebumps, the tee is so close to the basket of the goosebumps hole, that someone is bound to get killed teeing off down while a shot comes screaming down the mountain.

The tee after the corkscrew hole is too close to the basket of the corkscrew hole.

There are numerous other instances where this is just a bad design from a safety standpoint.


Jerry, and the rest of our group kept calling this course "A lawsuit waiting to happen"

It's not if someone gets hit by a disc out there, it's just when.


And for the record, my shot I threw on hole 3 last year did end up landing all the way down by the lodge. I actually was given the disc back by the pro shop.


With all the room out there, I think some serious consideration needs to be used in redesigning a few of these holes. I don't want to see anyone get killed.

If 950+ players are having trouble, just think of the new players!!


But I did almost have a skip ace on hole 4. Hit the yellow band.


Believe me I love this course, but it's justa matter of time before someone gets hurt out there. I know I don't want to get hit from a disc coming down that mountain.

Chris, I've played about 200 courses and have played dozens more dangerous than 7 Springs.

I'm pretty sure that you're probably up around the same number but I feel that a statement like "In all honesty this entire course is the most dangerous I have ever seen or played" is not only an exaggeration and hyperbole, but also being stated publicly like this is a little disrespectful to J. Gary Dropcho, one of the best disc golf course designers in the world.

Any ski resort course is naturally going to have a few holes where because of gravity, an errant disc has the chance to end up on the fairway of another hole. I agree that an errant shot on Goosebumps #15 can easily end up on the Corkscrew hole or over on the tee of hole#16.

But that is the only hole where I see major problems. I've never understood why people are using such poor disc selction on hole#3, and with the polehole being moved, the safety hazard is going to be removed anyway. The tee after the Corkscrew hole is pushed left and far away from the basket of the Corkscrew and protected by foliage. I honestly cannot imagine a disc hyzering off that hard to become a safety hazard. If it does, the tee could always be moved 20 feet down and out in to the open.

As for hole#10, I threw a backhand roller off the tee both times I played it, scoring an easy birdie 3 and the 2nd time, just missing a 40-footer for a drop-in 4. I truly think I would have to aim my drive directly at the condos to run any risk of hitting them. I don't understand why golfers, 970 rated players or not, are throwing such errant shots that these condos come into play. I think the condos could actually come into play more on the approach on hole#14, but again, it would almost have to be a deliberate choice to use the airspace close to them, when an extremely ample amount of room over the ski trail is there. If the air space on hole#10 isn't wide enough (and it's probably 100' or more wide) then one really doesn't have very good control of his disc.

I think that if players use a little common sense, focus on accuracy and placement and smart golf, we wouldn't have these problems. I honestly think people are just trying to throw as hard and as far as they can without good knoweldge of the flight paths of their discs and the prevailing wind conditions. I use a putter or midrange on many holes up there, and I've shot a 64.

And again, with courses designed by J. Gary Dropcho like Knob Hill, Moraine State Park, IUP College Lodge, etc. being some of your personal favorite courses, Chris, I really don't think it's fair that you put J. Gary Dropcho in a public negative light like this. I'm sure you could have just as easily expressed these concerns to him via e-mail, phone call, or face-to-face meeting out on the course, without airing this dirty laundry in public.

[sandalbagger]

I just wrote a huge reply but it got deleted.

arrggghh

[sandalbagger]

OK lets go through this one by one.

"I've never understood why people are using such poor disc selction on hole#3"

KB Clark #284 threw a Roc all the way to the basket of 9!!! I think that's a pretty good disc choice from a well-seasoned vet. So in 3 trips to 7 springs we have had 3 discs now land all the way at the bottom of the mountain, puttiing peoples lives in danger. Carl's shot went through 2 chair lifts full of people, over the alpine slide, and landed on the MTB trail. NOw just imagine if that disc hit someone in the chairlift, knocjed them out of the chairlift and that person lands on the alpine slide. YOu get my point. HOPEFULLY the redesign of that hole will fix tyhat problem forever???

"The tee after the Corkscrew hole is pushed left and far away from the basket of the Corkscrew and protected by foliage. I honestly cannot imagine a disc hyzering off that hard to become a safety hazard. If it does, the tee could always be moved 20 feet down and out in to the open. "

Perhaps a tee shot might not hit someone on the tee of the next hole, but what about an approach shot or a shot coming down Goosebumps?? The tee is only about 75 feet to the left of the basket on the corkscrew. This is not the worst problem on the course, but you never know what a disc or player might do.


"As for hole#10, I threw a backhand roller off the tee both times I played it, scoring an easy birdie 3 and the 2nd time, just missing a 40-footer for a drop-in 4. I truly think I would have to aim my drive directly at the condos to run any risk of hitting them. I don't understand why golfers, 970 rated players or not, are throwing such errant shots that these condos come into play."

Apparently you are a really good player It's kind of funny you said this because last night at womens league, Kurt Poole brough a video on his phone from last year at 7 springs which shows a player nailing the condo on hole 10. And after a talk with all of the people who played 7 springs this weekend, it became clear that this is a real problem. Not only did 2 players in my 5-some hit the condos, but so did 2 other players that day. That makes 4 condos hit on just 14 tee shots!!!!!!!!!!! And believe me, some of the players who hit the condos are well over 950 rated. Now just imagine what a beginner could do on that hole. If we have high level experienced playes hitting condos, then there is DEFINITELY a problem.

And on hole 14 I landed my 2nd shot just about 15 feet from a condo. And another disc would have nailed the big window in a condo if a loan pine did not save the disc in the last second.

Also 14 is dangerous because you can't see the landing area from the tee, which means walkers and pedestrians could get nailed and not even know a disc is coming at them.


"If the air space on hole#10 isn't wide enough (and it's probably 100' or more wide) then one really doesn't have very good control of his disc. "

This is just plain absurd. From a designers point of view, you must think of the absolute worst shot that could ever be thrown and use that in your design. If 950+ rated players don't have enough control to not hit a condo, then I imagine MOST other disc golfers do not either.


"And again, with courses designed by J. Gary Dropcho like Knob Hill, Moraine State Park, IUP College Lodge, etc. being some of your personal favorite courses, Chris, I really don't think it's fair that you put J. Gary Dropcho in a public negative light like this. I'm sure you could have just as easily expressed these concerns to him via e-mail, phone call, or face-to-face meeting out on the course, without airing this dirty laundry in public. "


I never said anything about J Gary, I just said that it is a dangerous design and someone ls likely to get killed out there. I called him on the phone after my shot on hole 3 last year right after I threw it and told him that the hole had to be changed. As for Moraine, I believe most of the credit for that design is due to the other 4 course designers. J Gary had much less input and hole designs than you may think. BUt those people do not get the credit they deserve for the course.


And I stick by my comment that this isthe most dangerous course I have ever played. I have played 150+ myself and this is the only course where my card joked about the course being a lawsuit waiting to happen, or saying it's just a matter of time before someone gets hit. WIth all the room on that mountain, there is no need for a hole to be too close to another, or to put people or houses at risk of getting hit.

J Gary is one of the best designers out there and this course is so much fun to play. But the reality is, that it is very dangerous, and the design needs to be rethought before someone gets hurt.

And I know I am not the only one who agrees with that.

[sandalbagger]

OK lets go through this one by one.

"I've never understood why people are using such poor disc selction on hole#3"

KB Clark #284 threw a Roc all the way to the basket of 9!!! I think that's a pretty good disc choice from a well-seasoned vet. So in 3 trips to 7 springs we have had 3 discs now land all the way at the bottom of the mountain, puttiing peoples lives in danger. Carl's shot went through 2 chair lifts full of people, over the alpine slide, and landed on the MTB trail. NOw just imagine if that disc hit someone in the chairlift, knocjed them out of the chairlift and that person lands on the alpine slide. YOu get my point. HOPEFULLY the redesign of that hole will fix tyhat problem forever???

"The tee after the Corkscrew hole is pushed left and far away from the basket of the Corkscrew and protected by foliage. I honestly cannot imagine a disc hyzering off that hard to become a safety hazard. If it does, the tee could always be moved 20 feet down and out in to the open. "

Perhaps a tee shot might not hit someone on the tee of the next hole, but what about an approach shot or a shot coming down Goosebumps?? The tee is only about 75 feet to the left of the basket on the corkscrew. This is not the worst problem on the course, but you never know what a disc or player might do.


"As for hole#10, I threw a backhand roller off the tee both times I played it, scoring an easy birdie 3 and the 2nd time, just missing a 40-footer for a drop-in 4. I truly think I would have to aim my drive directly at the condos to run any risk of hitting them. I don't understand why golfers, 970 rated players or not, are throwing such errant shots that these condos come into play."

Apparently you are a really good player It's kind of funny you said this because last night at womens league, Kurt Poole brough a video on his phone from last year at 7 springs which shows a player nailing the condo on hole 10. And after a talk with all of the people who played 7 springs this weekend, it became clear that this is a real problem. Not only did 2 players in my 5-some hit the condos, but so did 2 other players that day. That makes 4 condos hit on just 14 tee shots!!!!!!!!!!! And believe me, some of the players who hit the condos are well over 950 rated. Now just imagine what a beginner could do on that hole. If we have high level experienced playes hitting condos, then there is DEFINITELY a problem.

And on hole 14 I landed my 2nd shot just about 15 feet from a condo. And another disc would have nailed the big window in a condo if a loan pine did not save the disc in the last second.

Also 14 is dangerous because you can't see the landing area from the tee, which means walkers and pedestrians could get nailed and not even know a disc is coming at them.


"If the air space on hole#10 isn't wide enough (and it's probably 100' or more wide) then one really doesn't have very good control of his disc. "

This is just plain absurd. From a designers point of view, you must think of the absolute worst shot that could ever be thrown and use that in your design. If 950+ rated players don't have enough control to not hit a condo, then I imagine MOST other disc golfers do not either.


"And again, with courses designed by J. Gary Dropcho like Knob Hill, Moraine State Park, IUP College Lodge, etc. being some of your personal favorite courses, Chris, I really don't think it's fair that you put J. Gary Dropcho in a public negative light like this. I'm sure you could have just as easily expressed these concerns to him via e-mail, phone call, or face-to-face meeting out on the course, without airing this dirty laundry in public. "


I never said anything about J Gary, I just said that it is a dangerous design and someone ls likely to get killed out there. I called him on the phone after my shot on hole 3 last year right after I threw it and told him that the hole had to be changed. As for Moraine, I believe most of the credit for that design is due to the other 4 course designers. J Gary had much less input and hole designs than you may think. BUt those people do not get the credit they deserve for the course.


And I stick by my comment that this isthe most dangerous course I have ever played. I have played 150+ myself and this is the only course where my card joked about the course being a lawsuit waiting to happen, or saying it's just a matter of time before someone gets hit. WIth all the room on that mountain, there is no need for a hole to be too close to another, or to put people or houses at risk of getting hit.

J Gary is one of the best designers out there and this course is so much fun to play. But the reality is, that it is very dangerous, and the design needs to be rethought before someone gets hurt.

And I know I am not the only one who agrees with that.

[kUrTp]

Originally Posted by gotcha

Please, please, please....

Take a moment out of your busy day to contact (email or phone) your local representative and ask them to vote against SB 850 and the closure of state parks / forests within the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

Here's the link to the PA House of Representatives:

http://www.house.state.pa.us/index.cfm

In the upper-right corner you will see search windows.....find your representatives by zip code or county. Call or email these legislators who represent us! Ask them to keep our state parks and forests open to the public!

Here is the response I got from a friend who works for State Representative Dave Reed.

Kurt:
Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention. You were the first person to contact our office about it.

As I'm sure you know, the state is facing a significant budget deficit for the 2009-10 fiscal year. Senate Bill 850 is essentially the Senate's budget proposal, which leans toward a very conservative viewpoint on spending. In other words, SB 850 proposes many cuts in funding for various state programs to account for the deficit, including cuts in funding for the operation of state parks. In contrast, Governor Rendell's budget proposal is very liberal in terms of spending, but calls for increases in taxation to account for the budget deficit, which is hardly what the citizens of Pennsylvania need during these difficult economic times.

It is very probable that the House of Representatives will put forth a budget proposal that will lie somewhere in the middle--to neither the conservative or liberal extreme on spending. Surely, certain state programs will ultimately need to be scaled back or even removed from the budget on a temporary basis to allow for a sufficient state budget without significantly increasing taxes. As an alternative, it is ultimately the goal of those legislators with a fiscally responsible outlook to eliminate funding for many programs that are not deemed essential. As I discussed this issue with Representative Reed, he assured me that there will be an effort to keep as many programs in place as possible without creating a need for additional taxes.

Again, thanks for bringing this to our attention. I understand that this is an issue that is very personal to you and to many people you know. It would be a sad thing to see state parks have to close for a period of time due to a lack of funding, but I do believe there are a number of alternatives that can be considered before that would have to become a reality.

I hope this information helps! Let me know if you have any other concerns or questions!

Take care!

[mprestop]

Man, I always thought that they were bad news, but I never thought that they would take disc golf away...

[mprestop]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09147/973047-113.stm

An article from today's post gazette where Rendell and Dems fight against the GOP plan to shut down the parks.

[Jeff_LaG]

Originally Posted by mprestop

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09147/973047-113.stm

An article from today's post gazette where Rendell and Dems fight against the GOP plan to shut down the parks.

From: http://www.publicopiniononline.com/ci_12456191

Any list of targeted state parks is kept from public

By ROSCOE BARNES III Staff writer



Is Caledonia State Park or any of the other four state parks in Franklin County on a closure list?

State officials deny there is a list, yet an unknown number of Pennsylvania state parks have been contacted already this week about the possibility of being closed because of budget cuts this year by the state Senate.

Chris Novak, spokesperson for the state Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, said last week that there was "no list so far" of the parks that might be closed, but that one was being developed.

On Tuesday, Novak said a list was being developed that will be incorporated with a response to a letter from state Sen. Mary Jo White. A Republican, White serves the 21st Senatorial District. encompassing Clarion, Forest and Venango counties and parts of Butler, Erie and Warren counties.

When asked by Public Opinion about parks being contacted, Novak said: "We are doing some internal notifications."

Details of any list that outlines what parks will close if the House agrees to the same version of the budget will not be released to the general public until White has had a chance to review it, Novak said.

One of the things the state will look at is the number of visitors a park receives each year. That will not be the only factor in the decision whether to close or not close, Novak said.

Other matters of concern will be salary and budget issues, staffing, and the cost to operate the parks. The parks with the most visitors would likely be safe, Novak said. Other factors would come into play in the final decision, she said.

In terms of numbers, Caledonia State Park saw a total of 273,891 visitors in 2008, Cowans Gap had 42,402, and Mont Alto had 24,806, according to the Pennsylvania Bureau of State Parks Annual Attendance Report for 2008 - Region 3.

Some of the top parks had more than a million visitors last year. They include Presque Isle: 3,700,817; Pymatuning: 3,063,606; Moraine: 1,289,499; Ohiopyle: 1,276,589; Tyler: 1,100,900; Codorus: 1,174,508; Prince Gallitzin: 1,364,369.
Those with the least number of visitors are U. Pine Bottom: 1,085; Poe Valley: 1,523; and McCall's Dam: 2,446.

[Jeff_LaG]

The hit list of parks that could be closed has been released.

[mprestop]

After only moving to the state in the last five years, I do not know much about the parks of Pennsylvania. However, after reviewing the list, it seems as though the safe parks, those that see the most foot traffic, are also the ones that have disc golf courses. Correlation? Perhaps? Or maybe only the larger parks are suitable for disc golf.

Granted the costs associated with creating disc golf courses are not cheap, I wonder if there is a way that the addition of disc golf to state parks could be leveraged to the heads of the parks, local communities, i.e. the powers that be over the areas containing the parks in jeopardy, as a long-term tool to increase foot traffic in the lesser used parks. Even if the parks survive the Republican attack this summer, there's no saying that they won't use the same strategy next year, or years down the road, to cut state expenditures. I'm not sure what we as a community can do, but I just wanted to put that thought out there.

-mark

[gotcha]

There are idiots in our legislature who do not know how to live within their means. If our elected officials took some fiscal responsibility and actually controlled their spending, we probably wouldn't be contemplating the closure of select state parks and forests within the Commonwealth. Unfortunately, legislative idiots are elected to both sides of the aisle.

Here's a response I received last week from a representative in Butler County:

Dear Jerry,

Thank you for your email regarding your concerns with the Senate-passed budget proposal – Senate Bill 850.

With no signs of an economic turnaround in sight, Pennsylvania is facing a $3 billion budget deficit this year, which means the current budget is already more than the state can afford.

Despite the state’s economic problems, the Rendell Administration and some Democrat lawmakers are continuing to call for new and increased spending, which in turn demands new and increased taxes. The governor’s $29 billion spending plan for Fiscal Year 2009-10 represents a $700 million spending increase over the current year’s enacted budget. This proposal was recently introduced in the state House by Democrat Appropriations Chairman Dwight Evans as House Bill 1416.

Even with inclusion of $2.7 billion in federal stimulus funds to support the 2009-10 state budget, the Rendell spending plan requires a tax increase.

Families and businesses are struggling every day just to make ends meet,

tax increases can not be allowed.

The Senate’s $27.3 billion spending plan was crafted from the governor’s original budget proposal, but unlike the Rendell/House Democrat plan, it takes the necessary steps to account for the growing economic decline and does so without increasing taxes.

Government cannot spend money they do not have. Our goal must be to ensure that essential government services continue operating.

With two very contrasting budget proposals before us, the decision is whether the state should adopt a plan that takes more from taxpayers to increase spending above and beyond what is affordable;

or move forward with a budget that controls spending and enables state government to maintain core functions without imposing unnecessary burdens on the people of Pennsylvania.

In today’s economy and with an uncertain future before us, I believe we need a responsible plan that accounts for taxpayers’ hardships and calls upon state government to live within its means. At this time, the Senate budget proposal is the plan that is the closest to meeting this need.

I can assure you that my support will align with the spending plan that best represents the people I have been elected to serve.

If there is ever any way that I may be of assistance to you with any state related issue, please contact me.

[gotcha]

....now back to our regularly scheduled program:

Knob Hill Monthly *mixer*

Date : 30 May 2009 (Saturday)
Category : PFDS Tournament

Event Description :

$10 entry fee ($11 for non-PFDS members).

All skill divisions offered. One round of 18-holes; round begins at 10:00 am.

Divsions will be randomly mixed so players of various skill levels will have the chance to play together. All divisions play white tees during Mixer events at Knob Hill.