[Parkntwoputt]

Thanks for the responce Chase and Fore. Chase as you recall I was looking for a disc in the 180 size, Whippet and Gator, which I have both in champion plastic do their respective jobs, but I was looking for something more multipurpose. I use these for trick shots and extreme +30mph head winds.

Fore, Vipers are heavier then 180, I am not sure about the true max but the one I threw was 183g.

I was asking Dave, maybe I did not make it clear enough, about a midrange that would just finish left. Vipers, Whippets, Gators, (and Monsters) are all meat hooks. And none of them come in regular production runs of champion plastic (except Monsters), thus making them harder to get your hands on. I specificly asked about a disc similar or slightly more stable then a CFR Glow Roc. All the other Rocs, DX, KC and the Super (I have both '04/'05) are just basically dead straight with very little fade, for me except when thrown with 50-60% power. I like to use a midrange for for holes up to distances of 350ft on level surfaces except into adverse winds.

Basically a disc that has a similar feel and glide to the Roc, but resists turning over and always finishes left, but not a meat hook.