My goodness! The red 1st run elite Z-Forces are wickedly overstable. Way more overstable than the Sparkle Z-Forces from early summer. I dropped 3 strokes at our club mini on Sunday b/c i thought it would flatten and run. Even thrown flat into a moderate headwind it was a piglet! It's like a mini Z-Xtreme.
I got my friend a green player's cup Force, and it was the same. I throw fairly hard, he throws harder, and neither of us could flatten it out from hyzer. He uses it now where I use a Predator.