Headed to wichita!

[ChrisEads]

Hey I am headed to wichita tonight and should be there around 6 or so on business but will have time tonight to play a course so im looking for someone to show me one of your courses. And i was thinking about playing oak park or herman hill park. So just send me a pm if you want to play or you can call me on my cell its 479-739-2266. Hope to see someone out there tonight.

[Jeff_LaG]

Except for during Thanksgiving and Christmas, I am going to be spending the next two months at my company's plant in Wichita. Can I assume that Herman Hill Park and Oak Park are the "must-play" courses in town?

Have there been any updates to Derby DGC?
How is the private Flying Bee Country Club course out in Valley Center, KS?

[h2boog]

You should drive up north and try out our Salina courses while you're in Wichita. Shoot me a p.m if you want a course guide and I can probably set you up with somebody.

[jtkustomizer]

Except for during Thanksgiving and Christmas, I am going to be spending the next two months at my company's plant in Wichita. Can I assume that Herman Hill Park and Oak Park are the "must-play" courses in town?

Have there been any updates to Derby DGC?
How is the private Flying Bee Country Club course out in Valley Center, KS?



Can i ask what company you are with? Just curious. and what will your schedule be like?


Oak Park and Herman Hill are the must play courses in wichita.

Derby is an 11 hole course that is a pretty good challenge.

There is a pitch and putt 9 holer in mulvane that is decent.

I personally have not been to the flying bee but it is on a local masters property and I have heard great things about it.

Colwich is a must play full course as well.

Newton has a pretty good course also, but I have only played 2 tourney rounds out there and that was a couple of weeks ago.

There is a private course in winfield that is also a must called the canyon that is a pray and spray course that is very heavily wooded and plays in and out of a canyon. If you get to play this one you will either love it or hate it. It is one of my favorite courses to play and it is a late-fall winter and early spring course. It would be impossible to play when there is foliage on the trees. It is about an hour +/- south of wichita.

i am really suprised Mothrows didnt put a plug in for the newest course in salina. I had the chance to play a few of the holes there last weekend, but got lost, and I am planning on going back up there sometime to get a guided tour in from a local.

I will send you a pm with my contact info and you can get ahold of me and I will do my best to show you around the scene.

We have a good variety of courses within an hour +/- drive from wichita.

There is also 2 tournaments in emporia this coming weekend and at least one of the courses there was designed by Eric Mc Cabe.


Later

JT

[Jeff_LaG]

Josh,

Thanks for the reply.

I'll be working days and will have weekends off. Looks like there are some really good local courses to play while I'm there in November!

When I'm there again in December I may want to venture down to Tulsa to play the world class courses there (Blackhawk, The Lodge) or Kansas City. (Water Works & Blue Valley)

[circle_2]

Another plug for Emporia/Jones Park - 2 courses in one park - worth the drive fo sho.

[Jeff_LaG]

Thanks for the recommendation - looks like Emporia is right on the way to Kansas City. :cool:

[RhynoBoy]

Don't miss Peter Pan park when going through Emporia. I like it more than Jones Park.

[Jeff_LaG]

Don't miss Peter Pan park when going through Emporia. I like it more than Jones Park.



The course description paints Peter Pan as "short & technical." It's not just a pitch-n-putt is it?

[jtkustomizer]

Definatly not a pitch and putt. It is worth going to if you have a chance. There was a B-Tier their last weekend and you can see the results here on the site.

[Jeff_LaG]

Played Herman Hill Park yesterday.

This course has many, many really nice things going for it. The course has outstanding cement tee pads, and both a red tee and a blue tee, on most holes. The course has very professional looking tee signs with a hi-res photo of the hole on the sign. There are big poles sticking up marking where the alternate pin positions are. There's a nice mix of wooded and open holes, although the course leans more towards the open. There's some very good roller opportunities, although one must factor in the wind if it is blowing strong. There's some serious water hazards, including a small pond and stream (which one throws over on several holes on the back nine) and which flows down to the Arkansas River. The river itself can come into play on a number of holes and it is big and fast flowing - if a disc goes off the edge into the drink, it is surely lost. I have to laugh at the "Herman Hill" name of the park - I guess by Kansas standards that's considered a hill but that's only in comparison to everything else within a hundred miles that is pancake flat. :D

I really like the challenge of the course - there are no gimme deuces from the long tees and there are several pro par four holes. The first is hole#5, which plays some 650+ feet with the river on your left and OB right; into a SERIOUS headwind, I was enthused just to take four here. The next pro par four is #10 which plays like a reverse 'S' and tracks severely left to right around a large fountain, then bends back right to left with a total distance of over 600'. #13 is mostly just long and wide open, but my favorite was hole#16 which requires a long carry off the tee and over the stream followed by a longish approach to the polehole situated only a few dozen feet left of the river. I was very excited to take a birdie 3 here!

While I thoroughly enjoyed the golf at this course and pretty much had to the park to myself, some of the safety hazards at this course were so severe as to be egregious, imo. The first eight holes play ridiculously close to park roads and two *VERY* busy streets, Broadway and Pawnee, that run along the park with cars traveling at high rate of speeds, and I cannot imagine how many disc golfers over the years have risked life and limb to fetch errant shots and risked getting run over! The short tee of hole#4, up on a ridge with a nasty headwind blowing in your face and the street directly below you to your right, is just asking for trouble. I also cannot imagine what the fountain hole, holes near the stream, and holes along the river play like when the park is active and full of children and families. As I was playing some of these holes, I was actually shuddering to myself at the park manager and course designer who allowed some of these safety hazards, and the potential lawsuits that could be had at this course.

[Jeff_LaG]

Played Oak Park on Saturday.

While somewhat similar to Herman Hill, I thought the woods were incorporated a lot more and the course was the better for it. The first five holes make excellent use of the limited foliage, especially some of the tunnel shots from the long tees to get out of the trees. After traversing through an area with scattered trees and some longish 450-550 foot holes, I was enthused to see some more holes along the Arkansas River, some of whose tees and poleholes were located with 10 feet of the drink! These were some treacherous holes and I actually lost a Monarch on one.

The last four holes of this course really make it, imo. Hole#17 is really unique and which plays on a 'hogback' with the river on the left and the road on the right, and the pond right behind the polehole. From the long tee, this was a very tricky 3. Hole#18 may be one of my all time favorites in disc golf. The basket is located across a pond, in a neat depression with rock walls on the left and a throw of about 275 feet required to clear the water. First time I threw it, I nearly aced it and finished about 10 feet long for bird, woo-hoo!

There was something about Oak Park that just it made it so much more fun than Herman Hill - I actually played 36 holes at Oak, where I had no such urge to play more holes at Herman Hill. The Oak Park course certainly did not have the egregious safety hazards that gave me the heebie-jeebies at the other course. One thing that kind of confused me at both courses was that at most disc golf courses, when there are two sets of tees, one is typically a longer and harder set of tees. I kept wondering why at both courses that sometimes the red tee would be the longer tee while on other holes, the blue tee would be the harder one. My guess is that there was some effort to balance out the two layouts so that they both play about the same difficulty?

One thing I think I might have preferred at the other course is that at Oak, very few of the longer holes were legitimate pro par four holes. They were tough tweener 3s, but not quite long enough to be considered true pro par 4s. At Herman Hill, there were true pro par 4s where you didn't feel any shame taking a 4 on. Whereas at Oak, there were a couple of longer holes that merited par 4 consideration but taking a 4 still felt like a bogey.

[Jeff_LaG]

Hole#18 may be one of my all time favorites in disc golf. The basket is located across a pond, in a neat depression with rock walls on the left and a throw of about 275 feet required to clear the water. First time I threw it, I nearly aced it and finished about 10 feet long for bird, woo-hoo!



http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1644/hole18teeaw5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/hole18teeaw5.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img291/hole18teeaw5.jpg/1/)

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/1640/hole18reverseviewyo5.jpg
By the_lung (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/the_lung), shot with A707 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=A707&make=Samsung+Electronics) at 2008-12-02

[jtkustomizer]

Nice Pics

[taydrl]

Just FYI, I have started a new thread under clubs on discgolfersR.us, go to discgolfersR.us and click on clubs, then type in The Lodge at Taylor Ranch. This will be a site where we can share information on happenings and improvements here at The Lodge. Please join.

[Jeff_LaG]

So after playing Blue Valley and WaterWorks in Kansas City over the weekend, I decided to stop at Peter Pan Park in Emporia on the way back to Wichita. After playing some insane elevation changes within the last 24 hours, it was quite a change being back on a pancake flat course again but this was a very nice course and a really fun time. I guess I got spoiled with the high quality concrete tees, tee signs, and bag holders in KC because it was weird trying to navigate my way around the course, playing "find the tee." But once located, these concrete tees are still better than the natural tees I am used to in the Mid-Atlantic region. The first notable hole is the 4th, which is a delightful pro par four that requires a placement drive followed by a left-to-right approach to a basket on a peninsula surrounded by a creek. After playing some cool holes near an outdoor stage, the course winds its way around a fishing pond. The 11th hole is spectacular, playing to a basket on a finger of land which juts out into the pond and is only 10m wide where the polehole rests. One can either choose an ultra-risky left-to-right shot out over the water, or throw a safe righty hyzer. It's a good thing I'm not a big arm, because I had no idea that the Cottenwood River was just behind the basket of hole#14. You had also better not turn one over here because with his barbed wire, Mr. Private Property obviously doesn't want you on his land. :D

Hole#15 is quite picturesque in the corner of the field, but an awkward distance. It's too long to be a deucable par 3 and too short to be an honest pro par four for blue level golfers. My four felt like a bogey here. I threw a backhand roller on 16 and my drive hung up on the trees above the creek to give me a deuce, but I wouldn't throw that shot again - my roller could have just as easily ended up down in the water. It's a little annoying to be back at the car and still have holes#17 & 18 to play, but I nearly aced 17 and had to work hard to finish with a 3 on hole 18, which made the last two holes worth the experience. Shot a 52 with four deuces and two fours.

While I thoroughly enjoyed my round on the Optimist course, I had to chuckle at the course directory description as "technical." I guess compared to the Jones Park courses it is, but I've literally played hundreds of courses that were more technical than this one. Aren't there forests in state parks or public parks in Kansas with wooded holes for disc golf? Judging by my experiences so far, the answer is seemingly no. I also got the heebie-jeebies about safety at this course. While I had the entire park to myself on a cold Sunday afternoon in December, I can only imagine what the park is like in warm weather. The first few holes played near pavilions, picnic facilities and a baseball field, and the outdoor stage and fishing pond holes must be a nightmare to play when in use by other park patrons.

[h2boog]

Aren't there forests in state parks or public parks in Kansas with wooded holes for disc golf? Judging by my experiences so far, the answer is seemingly no.


Come on up to Salina and check out our newest course at Thomas Park, it's got a few trees on it. We don't have our tee signs up yet, so it would probably be a good idea to have a guide.

[RhynoBoy]

Aren't there forests in state parks or public parks in Kansas with wooded holes for disc golf?



Mo Throws is right, no forests. Thomas Park in Salina has trees so I hear. Just don't go at night.

[Jeff_LaG]

Are there any holes like this in Kansas?

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/gotcherj/DSC_5961.jpg

I have yet to see a single hole like this in the state of Kansas.

[RhynoBoy]

Hey, it's not our fault that we don't have trees!

Thomas Park might be the closest things to that in Kansas, but they probably aren't that pretty of trees.

[circle_2]

Rosedale Downunder is as close to that pic as I can think of in Kansas.

Hey Jeff, where can I/we read your reviews of WW and Blue Valley?

[Jeff_LaG]

Hey Jeff, where can I/we read your reviews of WW and Blue Valley?



For now, in the WaterWorks thread under the Courses section.

Sometime next week I'll get around to putting up all these courses on my web page.

[circle_2]

Very fair assessments indeed. If/when you make it back to KC, put Cliff Drive on your to-do list. IMHO, I rate it 2nd only to WW in KC.

[h2boog]

Hey, it's not our fault that we don't have trees!

Thomas Park might be the closest things to that in Kansas, but they probably aren't that pretty of trees.


True, we've got tighter shots than that at Thomas.

[RhynoBoy]

Very fair assessments indeed. If/when you make it back to KC, put Cliff Drive on your to-do list. IMHO, I rate it 2nd only to WW in KC.



Really Doc? That's interesting, usually, I hear less than stellar things of Cliff Drive. I am sure I will play it next time I head there to play regardless. I really liked WW, and Rosedale. Wyco is fun too, but long. (not as long as Blue valley of course) :)

[circle_2]

Cliff Drive requires a greater variety of shots (than WW)...has some deep/dark wooded holes, some tight fairways with OB (or cliffs!) coming into play and a fair amount of elevation changes...& did I mention the WICKED shule? IMO, more technical than WW... Tee pads will complete this gem...and they are on the docket.

Blue Valley is just a monster of a course...a true workout just to traverse the fairways.

Friday night WyCo League CANNOT be beat. The PERFECT end to an imperfect week. Daylight Saving Time cannot get here soon enough! :D

[Schoenhopper]

Thanks for the feedback on the Wichita courses.

As far as the red & blue tees go... they alternate. Even holes are long on blue, odd-long on red. Colwich & the Canyon (private) use the same pattern. Incidentally, all 4 play slightly tougher on blue and have both longer and shorter holes from the blue, while red is more moderate. These were designed before the skill level colors really caught on.

Herman Hill does have some safety issues. Due to this, the course has 6 mando's, all listed on maps I try to have available. New bulletins are in the works over the winter. The reason for the safety issues is that the park has "shrunk" several times with the Water Center being built and various construction projects, including a road expansion. There simply isn't any room left in the park. The mandos usually keep plastic out of the road (for those that play by them).

HH vs. Oak... Oak is more scenic and that is probably the main reason it is more popular. To it's credit, HH has 2 pins per hole (currently long on the even numbered holes), has more elevation, and has a much better lefty/ righty balance.

Most difficult holes: 6 at HH from long to long is pro par 4. 2nd toughest would be 10 from long at Oak. The street, river, and the jogging path (and across) are OB for the back 9. OB on both sides can be tough!

Newton and Colwich are very good courses as well. Newton has 24 holes with some uniquely shaped water holes. Most of the holes with plenty of trees.

Colwich is a truly uniquely Kansas experience! Tough hedge trees and wind can both be a nightmare.

Come out to league on the weekends. Sat at HH, 10am. Sun at Oak, 1pm. Doubles/ singles alternates. This weekend I'll be out of town though. Next Sat is Newton instead of HH.

For more info on our schedule and everything going on in Wichita and in KS, go to the forum on Kansasdiscgolf.com. Hardly anyone comes to the PDGA site.

Michael Schoenhofer

[Smitty2004]

When you want to tackle a Kansas course with trees and some elevation changes, let me know. I will take you on a personal tour of a course that will beat you and your discs down. I can guarantee that you have played very few course like it.

I will post some picks of it for you later.

[jtkustomizer]

When you want to tackle a Kansas course with trees and some elevation changes, let me know. I will take you on a personal tour of a course that will beat you and your discs down. I can guarantee that you have played very few course like it.

I will post some picks of it for you later.




Are you talking about the canyon? :D

[Jeff_LaG]

I am home now but I'll be back Jan 5th - 23rd. Maybe you guys can show me some of these other courses then. :cool:

[chappyfade]

Are there any holes like this in Kansas?

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/gotcherj/DSC_5961.jpg

I have yet to see a single hole like this in the state of Kansas.




Jeff,

I'm not sure how big a geography buff you are, but Kansas is in the Great Plains. You're not in the more forested eastern U.S. anymore.

Chap

[Jeff_LaG]

Chappy,

When I drive around Wichita and elsewhere in Kansas I see a lot of forests! But to date I just have not seen many forests in the parks, and when there was forested terrain in the park, the disc golf courses did not really play through them at all.

I know that course designers are often restricted to what areas of the park they can use, but I also suspect there is some reluctance to have courses play through thick woods?

[jtkustomizer]

Chappy,

When I drive around Wichita and elsewhere in Kansas I see a lot of forests! But to date I just have not seen many forests in the parks, and when there was forested terrain in the park, the disc golf courses did not really play through them at all.

I know that course designers are often restricted to what areas of the park they can use, but I also suspect there is some reluctance to have courses play through thick woods?



Jeff

When I read this post it made me think that you were talking about oak park. Here is 2 links that will give you some insight of what is goung on with the woods there.

http://www.kansasdiscgolf.com/forum/view...&highlight= (http://www.kansasdiscgolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2531&start=0&postdays=0&postorder= asc&highlight=)

Well the second link didnt work but we share the park with bird watchers.

[RhynoBoy]

I also suspect there is some reluctance to have courses play through thick woods?



No Reluctance, just nowhere to put very many. Forestland in Kansas covers 4% of the total land area. Compare that to about 58% of a state like Pennsylvania. If there are 74 courses spread evenly across Kansas, there should be about 3 foresty courses. I can think of 2.

The most fun course we play is only 50 minutes from Wichita, and you really can't get much more wooded than that.

[Jeff_LaG]

I'm back in town for the next three weeks. Anybody headed up to the Topeka Ice Bowl @ Jimbo's Farm? Is that a course worth driving up for?

[RhynoBoy]

Haven't played that one. You should go though, our Ice Bowl/Food drive events this year are going to be pretty cool. I can't go because I'll be at a conference in Emporia.

[jtkustomizer]

The wood bowl is happening this saturday and its only an hour away instead of 3 hours drive.

Thats where I will be.

[Jeff_LaG]

The wood bowl is happening this saturday and its only an hour away instead of 3 hours drive.

Thats where I will be.



The town of Auburn is a full 3 hour drive from Wichita?!?

What is the Wood Bowl, is that at the private course in Winfield? How do I get info and directions to that event?

[circle_2]

Topeka (& Auburn) are ~160+ miles NNE of Wichita - though an easy hwy trip. I've not ever played at Jimbo's Farm so I can't be much help here. The Topekans' play their Ice Bowl there every year so am guessing it's a good time!

[Smitty2004]

The Wood Bowl is about having a good time. After that, nothing else really matters. It is on the private course in Winfield.

We are playing 1 round of Cali singles and 1 round of tubles. There are several feed buckets out there that we are going to be thowing at. I don't know how that is going to play out, but it probably cannot be a bad thing.

As for directions, you would have to meet as at Wal-mart. We would then blind fold you and drive you out there.

Just kidding. Josh could tell you the directions better coming from Wichita. I don't know the names of all the roads/streets from that way.

[Jeff_LaG]

Josh, can I commute from Wichita with you? I got a spacious SUV rental car and the company is paying for gas. :cool:

[jtkustomizer]

Josh, can I commute from Wichita with you? I got a spacious SUV rental car and the company is paying for gas. :cool:



Sure not a problem.

[Smitty2004]

Go-Ped-


Do not forget to blindfold him! We don't share this beauty of a course with just anyone!

[jtkustomizer]

I am going to take him down the back roads so he will definatly be lost ;)

I am also trying to get him to come down to wellington with me tonight. You should come play there if you can Smitty

[Jeff_LaG]

Played Herman Hill again today in 65 degree weather. Already knowing the layout and prevailing winds, I enjoyed it a little more. A major highlight was a deuce on hole#7 from the long tee - the tee sign says it was 402' to the elevated basket, and I bombed a drive up onto the mound for a drop-in deuce. Although there was a healthy tailwind, a 400' drive is a rarity for a weenie arm like me and I was totally stoked! :cool:I also scored a birdie three on hole#10 with a long backhand roller and upshot into the circle.

I was hoping that some of the baskets would be moved from the last time I was there, but no dice. The only one that really bothers me is hole#17. The long position is located in a beautiful grove of trees near the water's edge, while the short is a measly pooch shot through the trees, and for the life of me, I can't understand why the basket wouldn't be located in the long 80-90% of the time. I also saw a lot of other players out on the course, which was nice, although several were fishing shots from the streets or the OB park road reaffirming the many safety hazards I presumed would occur at this course.

[Smitty2004]

The road that runs through the park will never be a safety issue. The only hole that has any real problems IMO is hole 2 from the short, almost everyone throws a hyzer. Hole 5 could be a problem but the mando forces you away from the road.

I think one of the most dangerous holes is 6 and 7. If they were not two of the best holes on the course you would hear more complaints. I have seen many people throw into the other fairway. I think the biggest safety concern is the river. I think someone falling in the river is a bigger concern then any of the roads.

Hole 17 long is pretty sweet.

I think hole 18 tee to 1 basket would make one of the sweetest par 5's you would ever play.

[Jeff_LaG]

When you want to tackle a Kansas course with trees and some elevation changes, let me know. I will take you on a personal tour of a course that will beat you and your discs down. I can guarantee that you have played very few course like it.

I will post some picks of it for you later.




Are you talking about the canyon? :D



I really enjoyed this course at the Wood Bowl last weekend - it was non-stop fun the whole day, with a simply stunning course, low entry fees, ctps, "Winfield local rules," very cool Kansas trophies, food, beer, campfires, etc. It was nice meeting Josh and Smitty from the PDGA board in person as well as all the other friendly people.

What can I say about the Canyon course other than it's simply one of the most atypical courses for the region that I can imagine! After playing predominantly wide-open pancake-flat courses, I was simply blown away by the tight wooded fairways and elevation changes at this course. In fact, other than some ski slope courses this may be some of the most extreme elevation I've ever played. (out of almost 200 courses since 1995) Many times I kept wondering (often aloud) if I was still in Kansas. There's apparently a "Down Under" course which plays to tonepoles through the canyon, but the regular basketed course was simply da bomb. With an awesome mixture of open & wooded holes, elevation changes galore, "fast" greens, etc., THIS was a true test of disc golfing skills! :cool:

[Jeff_LaG]

Looks like I'll be back in town in April. Anything going on?

[Smitty2004]

Lots of stuff going on in April.

April 4 LSDiscs Capital City Classic (Which includes a round at Big Shunga Park!)
April 5 Discs Unlimited Open (A must hit every year. Short course with several very unique shots)
April 18-19 Glass Blown Open (The only A-tier in Kansas!)
April 25 Tick Ranch (Private course just outside of Wichita)

April is a busy month on the DG scene in Kansas.

[Jeff_LaG]

Thanks, Smitty.

If I can't play in the Tick Ranch event I hope to play a casual round there, as well as the courses down where you are.

[AlmaWillie]

I am coming to Wichita for a wedding next Saturday the 20th. I'm planning on staying in town Friday and Saturday nights and would like to play a local mini, or at least play a round or two with some locals.

Anyone give me any advice on where to go, or where to find some mini going on?

Thanks!

[Miranda]

We don't have any minis or leagues on the weekends. A lot of people will be in Beloit at the State Champs. I have to work most of the weekend.

Oak park is the more popular course; there's always people playing out there. Herman Hill doesn't get much action with the cop shop there.

You can PM me if you need more info.

[Jeff_LaG]

I'll be in Wichita during the week of Monday Aug. 31st to Friday Sept. 4th. If anyone is available to join me for a round at a local course, that would be cool. :cool:

[Smitty2004]

If you have nothing better to do, you could come to Winfield and play the "New Daniels" layout.

You will only need a driver on 1 hole. It isn't the greatest layout, but it will be fun.