NEW COURSES in WISCO

[kellerthedog]

are there new courses in wisco for am worlds next year? i heard dineen park is putting in a course and also in brown deer. true or false? :confused:

[MARKB]

Dineen Park is going in on the 14th and I heard that brown deer could be going back in by the end of the month or next month, that I am unsure of however

[Karma Police]

I talked with an 'insider', he he, last night that said Brown Deer had been approved for a full time course again. There will also be another 18 at Dretska and Franklin may be re-designed as well for worlds. With Dineen there are your 5 courses for worlds. Sounds sweet.

[superberry]

I drove through Brown Deer about a month ago. Man, it has really taken a downward turn, as far as beauty and number of people using it, since I spent many a day there 15 years ago, growing up right down Teutonia Ave. I remember seeing baskets there when I was kinda young. Hopefully the course will bring people back in there. Hopefully the course will go INTO the woods through all the unused walking trails around there (north and east of the pavilion on the lagoon). The huge mature oaks and very developed park-like setting should lend to a fantastic course (like The Oaks in Mokena, but even more wooded and tighter fairways possible). Hopefully vandals don't create any problems. Guys, let me know if/when you need help. I'll be glad to do what I can whenever I am back in the area.

What kind of plans are in the works for the old golf course at Dineen? Are there more trees now, or will it be much like Franklin?

[discglfr]

If you don't get your information from either Mark Peterson or myself consider it to be a rumor and more than likely not true.

I don't have much time now because I'm marshaling at the USDGC but I can tell you that Dineen is having a work day / course installation THIS SATURDAY at 9AM. Show up before then and be ready to do a few hours of work.

Show up with shovels, post hole diggers, gloves, and wheelbarrows. We are planning to put in at least 36 anchors on Saturday morning. This should go pretty quickly with a bunch of people there.

If this gets completed and things go well we'll continue trying to get Brown Deer going. We still need to get a county guy out to Brown Deer to give us the 100% stamp of approval for it to be installed. That's likely to happen soon but it hasn't just yet.

We'll also be debuting the Am Worlds website sooner than later. That will answer many questions regarding the progress of the courses and the Worlds.

[widiscgolf]

Well way to clear things up for us Terry. Sounds great. If my week goes as planned I should be there Saturday.

Have fun watching the top Open players at the USDGC. Keep us posted... Thanks again.

[msbatka]

Please consider coming out tomorrow even if it's just for an hour or two. Shovels, post hole diggers and wheel barrels are needed. However, people are what is needed most. This should be a piece of cake if enough people show up. The overwhelming majority of disc golfers in Greater Milwaukee have been wanting more local courses for years. Now is your chance to help make it happen!

[msbatka]

It was great to see a big turnout of volunteers today. Dineen Park now has 18 tee pads and two pin positions per hole. The baskets should be in by next weekend. This course will be a great addition to Greater Milwaukee disc golf.

[kellerthedog]

walked Dineen Park Sunday, any word on when the baskets will be put in. I have never seen so much geese and dog s*@t in my life. Nice job to all the volunteers who helped put it in. It looks like a fun duece course

[kellerthedog]

one more thing...is this course going to be used for am worlds? it does not seem to be a challenging course at all, based on the layout.

[discglfr]

I was in South Carolina last week and then Phoenix for the past few days. In the meantime, I received an e-mail from a local golfer regarding Dineen. I'll leave out the name but here is what it said:

<font color="red"> "I played Dineen for the first time this morning. All I have to say is wow what a fun and balanced course.

Mark had just finshed putting the baskets in and said it is better than he thought it would be.

4 holes over 400' and 1 over 500'. My kind of course.

If Brown Deer will be as good I think we will have 3 topnotch courses for Am Worlds and beyond."
</font>

That's what I have to go on thus far. I'm hoping to get out to the course tomorrow to play it for my first time. I might even get Mike Schwieger down here to check it out as well. THANK YOU to all of the hard working club members and volunteers that helped make this install possible. Stay tuned for install information regarding the Brown Deer course.

[superberry]

Congrats on the new course!!!!!!!! I told my dad about the install day but I don't know if he got around to showing up or not.

I'll be down Sunday to play (and stopping at Hups afterwards for my first pizza from there in over 10 years!)

You know I like trees though, so you may not care for my review.


Terry, I'm working on purchasing a gas powered hole auger (with 6" and 12" augers) from a landscaper that is going out of business. If the deal works out, this is something that we could share among the clubs - eveyone pitch in a small amount to use it and just go pick it up wherever it happens to be. Sound interesting? (I had to dig 4 holes by hand this past week in the cold and rain to get ready for the Ace Race, so I'm all over the idea).

[kellerthedog]

AWESOME, i was a bit skeptical at first bc the course was hard to follow without the baskets in, and everything seemed short. Cant wait to play today after work. Thanks again to all those hard workers who sacrificed a Saturday morning.

[Jamesy2]

The comments Terry got look like they are from Brunner--who else would be hanging around the course as the baskets are getting put in! :D

[MARKB]

Not likely :) I actually just played the course for the first time this morning.

For the most part many of the holes are wide open, you have to get your deuces to shoot a competetive round out there in my opinion. I shot a -5 with a bogey and I missed a bunch of deuces inside the circle. There were a couple of holes I did like, Hole 2, 12, 17 pretty much... I wish there was some shot shaping out there but its pretty much straight and open, didnt have to really throw the disc with many angles


I will be playing there more since its a 1/3 of the distance than dretzka only 6 miles for me sooo... I have never seen so much poo in my life though, not even that bad by the lake front... caked 1" to the bottom of my shoe! haha

[kellerthedog]

he is right about the poop :mad:its REALLY bad

[discglfr]

Like litter or anything else, volunteers are more than welcome to help clean up the course.

[DeafDGolfer]

Hey Folks of Brew City

Im really impressed with Dineen Park DG course. Tdogg, forgive me for having doubts about Dineen Park , I ll take it back and hats off for your effort to build more courses in Milwaukee area :D. Of course, another hats off to everybody, who helped out last saturday to make it happen. ;)

I got 2 under on first try, got double bogey, two bogeys and 6 birdies.

My favorite hole of Dineen Park is Hole 12, 535 ft :D

Cant wait for AM worlds!!! of course Brown Deer Park is next too!!

Space Cadet

[discglfr]

Unfortunately I didn't even get out there today. I wish my job of promoting disc golf didn't always get in the way of me actually playing disc golf.

We are talking about a small gathering tomorrow morning. I know of 4 or 5 that are interested. I could maybe see doing some $5 doubles or something.

Hit me up if you are interested in joining. No jags please.

[MARKB]

It was nice seeing you out there in the morning <--- who you played hole 18 with! I really wish I knew some sign language, my girlfriend is going to UWM and is in the interpreting program but she just does not teach me enough :)

[uwmdiscgolfer]

Crap, no jags....guess i cant go

[MARKB]

Shot a bogey free -7 today... definately a -10 to -13 out there i missed some short deuce putts that round

[superberry]

Man, Dineen is starting to sound like Baird Creek in GB. Except without the cool sledding hills that is. Wide open, no real penalty to errant drives, nothing in the way to limit aproach shots, many deuce opportunities. I suppose the only thing limiting an 18 deuce round will be the distance. But then again my putting is horrific too.

Anyone have some pictures?

[ck34]

Maybe could use some USDGC style OB roping or painting here and there for Am Worlds?

[uwmdiscgolfer]

i played it last night for the first time since i was there for the review with Chuck and gentry.
I thought it turned out decent. There a lot of great golf shots, but like its been said, not a lot of trouble.
I played it in Half light and half dark, and shot a -3, not even knowing where the holes were.
I was thinking the same as chuck, thinking some yellow rope on some of the more wide open hopes would make it interesting.
All in all, good course, close to home and FUN!
Thanks GLDGC!

[discglfr]

First off - a HUGE THANKS to Mark Peterson and the rest of the awesome Great Lakes Disc Golf Club! Worlds planning is moving along and the courses are going in! Thank you to Tim Strait for hosting the King of the Club today.

The course is certainly a good quality course. Amazing to read so many thoughts by so many people that haven't seen or played it.

Barry Schultz shot a -4 during the morning round today. Someone else shot a bogey free 7 under to have the hot round of about 30 players. Barry and I were 3 under after the front 9 during the finals in the afternoon. We both parred the second hardest hole, 10. He then birdied hole 11 take the title 2 holes into the playoff.

So, he was 4 down after 11 and likely would get about 3 or 4 more dueces if he had finished out the round. That makes for a single digit under par round. Doesn't sound duece or die and sound all together too easy. And by the way - practice rounds and tournament rounds are two very different things.

[MARKB]

Rain and wind definately ADDED to the difficulty out there today...

To be fair I think the course is overall fun and you have to make good shots to shoot good out there. Just because some of the holes are open if you dont have a putt it doesnt matter. I still believe there are double digit scores out there waiting to be shot... The scores will be packed tight and maybe one of those double digit rounds will allow a single player to gain a bunch on the field but who knows.

With more open holes wind obviously will make the course harder... Out of 4 rounds I have played out there 3 practice and 1 today in the event I have not shot worst than a -5 and of those 4 rounds 1 bogey ... It doesnt mean the course is super easy since I did have to make good putts to shoot well out there. It has its own identity, the park is beautiful and it has a handful of great shots, they made great use of what they had to work with since otherwise a lot of the park paths would would come into play..

[widiscgolf]

Was out there today with Wondra, Kempen, Sleepy and Freddie.

I thought the layout was great. A sweet course. I think when permanent concrete tee pads are in this with just elevate how awesome it plays.

Favorite hole I believe was hole 17 slightly down hill 400 something. I forgot. It's the second from last hole as you end up by the parking lot again.

[DeafDGolfer]

It was nice seeing you out there in the morning <--- who you played hole 18 with! I really wish I knew some sign language, my girlfriend is going to UWM and is in the interpreting program but she just does not teach me enough :)



Now I do know who you are! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Its great that your gal is currently studying under ITP program at UWM. We, Wisinois Deaf Disc Golf Club, do sometime call them and do some field training as practice interpreting and LEARN disc golf same time, priceless. I may call your gal and her friends and do some field work sometime in the future.

Space Cadet

[klemrock]

Can someone please give directions to Dineen?
I can't find it on PDGA's Course Directory yet.
Also, can't WAIT to play in Brown Deer Park again.
It's been what, like, 15 years since it was pulled?
Thanks for all the hard work GLDGC!

[MARKB]

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=internal&addtohistory=&latitude=wgfYowspP5hcWrcU7PtQJw%3d%3d&longitude=gJOW%2bVBt0%2fRcJRck09Rmdg%3d%3d&name=Dineen%20Park&country=US&address=6901%20W%20Vienna%20Ave&city=Milwaukee&state=WI&zipcode=53216&phone=414%2d871%2d4020&spurl=0&&q=Dineen%20Park&qc=Parks


Go to mapquest and punch in Dineen park, and you can get directions to the location. For me I take hwy 41 from 94 by the Stadium and take that as it is Appleton ave and going north on Appleton I take a right on Keefe and then a left into the parking lot for the course. The parking lot to start on hole 1 is actually on Keefe Ave right off of Appleton Ave if that helps the road is shown on the map of the park on mapquest.

[superberry]

I'll be playing Dineen next week after I get a few days off. I have a couple Traveler Baskets from donations that we never got around to raffling off this year. Anyone want one for $100? I'll bring it with me when I play, no delivery charge. Consider it a donation to the club to help buy real baskets for 18 holes next year. (sorry this isn't really Dineen review related)

[widiscgolf]

First possible lost disc at Dineen....

Sad to say it was me... I believe it was hole 16 or 17 I left near the basket. It was a 10X KC Aviar Putter with rainbow stamp. I did have my name and number on it. Reward if found. Thanks.

[klemrock]

Thanks, Brunner!

[kellerthedog]

Played my first complete 18 hole round at dineen last night and the course is very sweet. Shot a -5 with two bogeys and finished strong with deuces on 17 & 18. I can't wait till am worlds this year...is it true that Pros who re-register before Dec. 31 can move down to advanced regardless or player rating in order to play am worlds 07? i hope this is just rumor and hearsay bc that is not fair. tdogg is it true? anyway ill be at dretzka today after work around 4:30 to practice for the howler, me and trygve got it locked.

[MARKB]

Played my first complete 18 hole round at dineen last night and the course is very sweet. Shot a -5 with two bogeys and finished strong with deuces on 17 & 18. I can't wait till am worlds this year...is it true that Pros who re-register before Dec. 31 can move down to advanced regardless or player rating in order to play am worlds 07? i hope this is just rumor and hearsay bc that is not fair. tdogg is it true? anyway ill be at dretzka today after work around 4:30 to practice for the howler, me and trygve got it locked.



It is true that any pro wishing to reclassify as Am can do so with no questions asked anytime before the end of the year. I am pretty sure they still cannot play in majors if they have accepted cash at any point, but like some people I am not 100% sure on that. BTW... I think I am playing saturday with Kasten haha! You and trygve going down!

[ck34]

No restrictions on majors. As has been posted before, even Barry or Ken can do it to win the Am Worlds title they never got. :D

[widiscgolf]

HAHA ?? There you go Brunner you can come back now to the Am side. hehe

Can I ask why this went into effect Chuck?

Don't you find it a little unfair or possibly cheapening our divisions in our sport?

Are there other sports around that offer such a thing? I couldn't see "tiger" going back to amateur status....weird.....

Oh well anything for buck I guess and I can understand some certain reasons why. I'll just worry about my own game come worlds.

Josh

[ck34]

I think it was a combination of reasons. One, concern that the increase in dues for pros would discourage some of the ones just hanging on to not renew. Two, recognition that most of our members are truly ams but some play for cash. Three, why should ams hanging around for Am Worlds with ratings in the 975-995 range be cherry picking in Advanced while those at the same rating in pro struggle? Four, either another Am level above Advanced is needed, or a lower level of pros is needed so ams at a certain rating level must become pros. Since there's not enough support yet for either of these options to be implemented, the amnesty program may help a little.

These are primarily my observations and not PDGA official reasons although item one would be the closest to their primary reason. The Board as a group just thought the one time amnesty was a good idea after discussing the pros and cons.

[widiscgolf]

I don't entirely disagree with it. I think PRO 2 needs to come back and to be taken more seriously by the TD's and the PDGA.

The IOS (Illinois Open Series) last year I believe they offered PRO 2. It will work if taken seriously. Because I did notice how everyone made a joke about it.

PRO 2 can work if everyone put force into it by ratings possibly. I don't know. I can say this we need a PRO 2 division if were allowing 975-995 range players in AM. We need a bigger buffer zone don't you think?

Again this is just my opinion Chuck. I not qualified to judge that. I'm just a loyal PDGA member.

[MARKB]

I agree Josh, I think Pro 2 or something like it needs to be put back into place and be mandated... players with certain ratings would have to be forced to play in a different division. I wish there was a mandatory bump rule for at least pro 2 once you get above say the 955 mark or so... to whatever the cap would be. Of course this takes money away from the "top" division so it will never work in the current competetive structure, at least I dont think so but oh well

Oh josh the haha was just that... I am playing this weekend to go out and have some fun with friends, might as well since I have my own event going on the pro weekend so I wont be around for that howler. I would never think of moving back to play Amateur even for a shot at the Am worlds title in milwaukee... It would completely disrupt the path and goals I have set formyself ...

[uwmdiscgolfer]

Pro 2 is a good idea for people like myself who can compete in open, but often do not cash. I played 19 open events, cashed 4 times and missed cash by one 3 times. But in retrospect, if i were to play ADV all year, my score would have won 4 events and numerous top 5's(In events where Pro and Adv played the same tees, its just for general comparisson)
I guess i am trying to say a divison between pro 2 and adv would help people like me, but i know i am one of a kind and there is not a overwhelming amount of people in my shoes. So, ill just play open donate to Heeren ! =)

[kellerthedog]

brock you are right, except i am taking it the other way...next year look out intermediate because your boy is lookin to move down! look at what you started rules committee. barry schultz for 2007 am worlds champ

[ck34]

Why wouldn't he want to win a Worlds title in Wisconsin or even two with Pro worlds the following week? :D

[uwmdiscgolfer]

Good Point! He should double dip the worlds, win both, why not!

[kellerthedog]

anyway, what about brown deer? any word on when the baskets will be installed?

[uwmdiscgolfer]

i have not heard a set date yet.

[discglfr]

This thread has gotten off subject (as they usually do) but I'll post exactly what I posted in a different thread. Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

"Even Kenny or Barry can sign up under this new policy. Does anyone honestly think that thought would even cross their minds?

People appear to be blowing this far out of proportion and are taking it to some extremes. If you are a regularly cashing pro and you want to sign up as an Am just to save $25 I think you are still playing disc golf for the wrong reasons.

The intent of this was to offer a slight break to anyone that considers themselves a 'bubble' player. Maybe you have a 960 rating but have only cashed twice in the three years you've been a pro. Maybe you have a 935 rating and you signed up last year as a pro and have regreted it ever since. That is the real intent of this.

Personally I think it would be silly for a person that typically cashes to go through the hassle of signing up as an Am just to save a few bucks. Then their card will be Am and it will likely increase paperwork and stat keeping. Seriously people - it's $25. If you're a pro act like one and just sign up were you belong. If you're truly questionable with your skill set go ahead and sign up as an Am. I like that the PDGA recognized there would be a small back lash for increased fees and they came up with this creative (one time) solution. It's too bad they are getting bashed for trying to accomodate people. Darned if you do - darned if you don't.

Its amazing how many people want to see right through the true INTENT of this decision just so they can save a few bucks and create even MORE work for the organization that is already understaffed, under paid, and under appreciated. People already complain that the PDGA doesn't respond to their phone calls and e-mails instantly. Now, everything will get bogged down even more because in order to save a few bucks people un-necessarily reclassified themselves. Give me a break.

How mad would you be if you called into the headquarters and got this, "Oh, sorry PDGA number X, you'll have to wait on hold for just 20 more minutes. Now that we are done with the first NT of the year we have to go through and re-classify Barry Schultz and 100 other players back to pro status. I hope you don't mind waiting for that and then we'll address whatever concern you have." "

[axldog]

The intent of this was to offer a slight break to anyone that considers themselves a 'bubble' player. Maybe you have a 960 rating but have only cashed twice in the three years you've been a pro. Maybe you have a 935 rating and you signed up last year as a pro and have regreted it ever since. That is the real intent of this.





Ter,

With all due respect .... good intentions do not solve problems, good ideas do. So if the PDGA, with all of it's good intentions, wants to implement a significant change to our policy system, I believe that it is in everyones best interest to think it through a little better before making a change. By this I mean to eliminate some the the gray areas and to specify what the actual intent of the rule change is. For example, instead a declaring amnesty for all Pro players reguardless of player rating to be able to move down to AM without question ( unbelievable ), maybe it would have been more prudent to have placed certain guidelines for this like "Pros under a 975 rating", or possibly just an explanation, like you offered, with the details of the intent. Make a policy that makes sense, and don't leave open a big hole that will invite abuse. Just my 2 cents.

See you at the Wisconsin TD Summit.

[discglfr]

I understand this policy leaves things open and it allows people to make whatever choice they want. Its odd to me that so many people are complaining that the PDGA is giving them too much of a choice.

I guess you could say the PDGA is going to trust that if you are a pro player and plan to continue being a pro this year you will just sign up as one and not try to slight them the $25 difference.

Could I sign up as a pro this upcoming year? I certainly could. Like I have mentioned in other posts, I would never do it because I'm planning to remain a pro the rest of my life and my first sanctioned event this year will be as a pro. Saving a measily $25 and jumping through the hopes of reclassifying seems silly and certainly not worth it.

Heck, most disc golfers are lazy so many of them probably won't even take the initiative needed to reclassify themselves by Jan 1 anyway.

Anyone that is a regularly cashing pro would never sign up as an Am just to go after some 'J.V.' title. Well, I'm hoping that anyway.

[Jamesy2]

Heck, most disc golfers are lazy so many of them probably won't even take the initiative needed to reclassify themselves by Jan 1 anyway.


HUH!
:confused:

[axldog]

I understand this policy leaves things open and it allows people to make whatever choice they want. Its odd to me that so many people are complaining that the PDGA is giving them too much of a choice.



I don't think it's as much of a too much of a choice issue, as a could you be more clearer about the intent issue.

If the PDGA was all about giving the players their choice about everything ..... the first rule to be thown out would be the no alcohol rule. :D

Here's the new slogan for the 2007 AM Worlds in Milwaukee ... just some J.V. title that hopefully won't turn a Pro into an AM.

Just kidding.

Later.

[uwmdiscgolfer]

what exactly are you upset about regarding the amnesty offer? It doesn’t appear to be very clear what your position really is and why you feel that way

thanks

[ck34]

It doesn't sound like Axldog is against the policy, just how it was communicated. From a practical standpoint, the official communication will be in writing in the renewal packets sent to all members in November. Any posting here and even the email newsletters from the PDGA Communication Director do not reach every member. Whether right or wrong, considering that the PDGA has yet to require an Am to turn Pro upon reaching a specific rating, is it any surprise that they would not specify that only Pros below a certain rating could use the amnesty per Axldog's suggestion? In addition, they would have to specify different ratings for women and each older division. Thus, better to not specify a rating max at all.

[kellerthedog]

chuck or whoever can answer me....is there a rule that says based on a certain rating Mr. X cant play intermediate and must play advanced? i am a 955 right now so could i play intermediate next year? Does anyone else see a ripple effect of players moving down because ADV will be much stiffer competition. Just a J.V. thought from a J,V. player. Heck, I am probably too lazy to send this webpost. :D

[ck34]

Players still have to be below the ratings breaks indicated in the tour guidelines to play in a division. www.pdga.com/documents/td/06PlayerDivisionsGridFinal.pdf (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/06PlayerDivisionsGridFinal.pdf)

There are no changes planned for this table in 2007 so the amnesty program will have no effect. The only exception for a player to play down when their rating is above the rating break is if they entered the lower division in a series event earlier in the year when their rating was in that division, and their rating rose above the break before the series ended. The series has to specify that's the rule before the series starts and also let Gentry know that's the rule.

[kellerthedog]

one more question, lets say i play adv all year and when worlds comes around could i play intermediate? thanks
play dineen its awesome!

[ck34]

There are no divisions below Advanced at Worlds or Am Nationals.

[superberry]

Back to reporting on Dineen...

I'm finally finding time to get down and play on Monday the 6th. I'll be there around 1230-100 after my interview. I'll have a couple Innova Travelers and a bunch of discs for sale or trade. Look for the black Ford pickup with disc stickers all over the back and come join me for a round if you're there.

[discglfr]

Make sure you're not making sales in the parking lots without proper permission and permits. I know Milwaukee County is concerned about some of that stuff and we don't need to hurt any of the positive image we've built up in the past few months.

Thanks,

Ter

[uwmdiscgolfer]

Brown Deer Park Install Day!
Nov 11th, 9am.
Bring wheelbarrel, shovels, anything that may help dig holes etc.

[MARKB]

I was wanting to go to this one but the 11th is the OZDGC club picnic so I will not be there...

[discglfr]

As Matt posted below PLEASE come out to the <font color="red"> Brown Deer </font> installation this weekend. We need all the help we can get. Bring whatever you can for equipment. Shovels, wheelbarrows, gloves, post hole diggers, etc. If you have any questions you can contact Mark 'the Shark' Peterson at 262.644.6094. 9:AM start time. Many hands make for light work ... errr something like that.

Here is a link (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=brown+deer+park,+milwaukee,+wi&ie=UTF8&z=14&ll=43.157485,-87.948389&spn=0.028238,0.058537&t=h&om=1) that will get you to the park.


Brown Deer Park Install Day!
Nov 11th, 9am.
Bring wheelbarrel, shovels, anything that may help dig holes etc.

[MARKB]

Honestly, I know there are worst neighborhoods but I would not recommend people going out to play dineen alone or going out to play glow out there. Play during the day! Just today I found about 5-6 9mm shells by the playground by hole #2 on the path.

[discglfr]

Brunner -

Were you out there with all of your friends today? Have you ever thought about a position in public relations? Thanks for the heads up.

Ter

[superberry]

I hope the geese aren't around in July!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!! Terry, did you consider a throw or two across that pond for the worlds layout? It would have been a reasonable distance for all Ams in the event. What is with the layout with holes 8 thru 11? I still don't think I got it right (I just couldn't picture it correctly). I banged the chains on 18 off the tee with my Valk holding a nice anhyzer and slight fade - would have been a nice ace.

[uwmdiscgolfer]

wow!

Have you ever thought that bringing Disc golf to a area like that may help the park grow, and not be a area with drugs and violence? The park will now be full of people playing disc golf, not dealing drugs.
But then again, what do i know, i am just a hippie.
Oh wait, i am not!

i think that park will be a great stepping stone for disc golf to help it grow by making it avialable to everyone.

my 2 cents

[uwmdiscgolfer]

One other thing, just because terry is promoting the park, doesnt mean that he designed it.
You can bash terry, when in fact, the GLDGC and all of its members, and volunteers were responsible for putting that course in the ground. Terry did not get all of the fundraising money, nor does he claim that he did. The club, and everyone in milwaukee that supports disc golf in Responsible for this course, and brown deer, and 9 more holes at dretzka.

2 more cents!
Dont take it personal

[discglfr]

"Oh no you di'int!"

I think that's an appropriate comment right about now.

Due to my extreme passion for growing and promoting the wonderful sport of disc golf I have been informed by my legal consultants to not exchange in any replies or banter. Quite frankly, I get too worked about all of of this because it's just that - my passion. I'm sorry I cannot comment further at this time.

[MARKB]

Brunner -

Were you out there with all of your friends today? Have you ever thought about a position in public relations? Thanks for the heads up.

Ter



I just thought it was interesting thats all, I was out there with Yohann and Seth both their first times playing the course so I went out to show them around.

[MARKB]

I should add that I like the other pin placement that they have the basket in on hole 13 and the trimming they did around the trees for it, plays well! I know that moving hole #2's teepad was necessary because of the neighboring yards but it did take away a little from the mind job that hole could do on someone :)

[msbatka]

I occasionally check this thread. Sometimes things written leave me scratching my head. However, I chose to refrain from voicing my opinion...until now. Superberry, Terry isn't going to rip you because I called him as soon as I read your post and told him that I would gladly reply. YOU ARE AN IDIOT. I repeat, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. Smoked filled cars? What, you don't find that at Dretzka? Let me guess...no, I don't need to guess, the occupants were African American. Golf and tennis have enjoyed considerable growth in part by marketing to minority demographics including African Americans. Don't like seeing gangster thugs there...don't come back...please, don't come back. I look forward to the opportunity to introduce the sport to people who probably haven't seen it before. Geese? Do me a favor and write Mother Nature. Blame her for migration patterns. Layout? What do you suggest be done? Don't simply point out problems if you can't offer solutions. "Terry, don't take it personally?" No worries, I'll take it personally on his behalf. But before we I do that, let's get something straight. Terry will be the first to admit that he and I do not see eye to eye on many things. However, we have a mutual respect for each other. We want to see the sport go places. With that said, I know that Terry has put in a considerable amount of work to get Milwaukee 36-45 new holes. Keep in mind that Milwaukee hasn't seen any growth since the early 80s. So how could Terry possibly take it personally? You owe him an apology. Worlds layout? You're the guy who will complain until the cows come home, but wouldn't miss Am Worlds for anything in the world. If it bothers you that much, don't come back to Dineen and pass on Am Worlds. The park is run down? How? This park was a golf course, but has been dormant for at least a couple of years. Let's see...grass needs to be grown where the ball golf greens were, moderate litter needs to be cleaned up and the aforementioned goose crap. What else? Craphole neighborhood? You've got some nerve. Why don't you come back down here and tell the neighborhood commitee that? Keep in mind there may be minorities there. Putting words in the mouth of Milwaukee County is ignorant at best. Where have you been over the past year during Terry's dialogue with the county? That's right, not here. "I'm not trying to be negative?" Too late, you suceeded. Think gloabally, act locally. Want to see the sport grow? Quit complaining and get 18 holes in your backyard. Then we can come up there and offer uneducated opinions. Looking forward to it.

This post is for everyone else who has the p*ss and moan, but won't lift a finger mentality.

Love,


Mike

[superberry]

I apologize for my comments because they were not written as I intended them to be taken. Mike, a lot of what you bashed me for wasn't necessary and uncalled for - I didn't personally attack you about anything! My opinions were taken out of context at best. Feel free to call me and talk about things first before bashing me (PM me and I'll give you my phone #). I did not complain at all about the layout - I said it was tough to figure out 8-11, but that's on me. I wouldn't offer suggestions for change because they fall on deaf ears, as they should, they're just one player's opinion. I asked if some pond shots were in the works for worlds, not complaining about the lack of them. I know Terry gets too worked up about posts by taking them personally, and I didn't intend for that. I made no mention about minorities, nor did my post have anything to do with that. I was stating a fact that I saw smoked filled cars in each parking lot I entered while looking for the course, I made no mention of race, nor did I even notice. Yet before I had even gone down to play, Terry injects comment about me selling or trading some of my own equipment to any fellow players who may have been interested, like it would cast the course in a negative light. Face it, the park has other negative images to worry about, and ignoring them is the ignorant thing. And don't pull that righteous crap with me and try and label me as intolerant. You know NOTHING about me! I grew up on 35th and Silver Spring, and went to school at Milwaukee Custer - where did you grow up Mike? Things are what they are. Which course has a better overall atmosphere and appeal - Dineen or Token Creek? Face it, the courses that are more aesthetically appealing are outside of neighborhoods in general - any neighborhood! Standing Rocks, Tower Ridge, Sandy Point, they're better because they are away from neighborhoods. You simply don't have the available topography or ability to stretch with the confines of a city park - there are limitations. YES there is a ton of goose crap too! Do you like playing in goose crap? I'd assume not, and I wouldn't bash you for saying so. My point is that geese should not be there in July, and I hope they aren't, for the sake of not having EVERY disc of EVERY player at Worlds get smeared in crap. And you bashing me about getting 18 holes up here at Winter Park is completely uncalled for. You have no idea what I do. Do you respect Jim Van Lanen as a good promoter? Ask him for his opinion about me and what I do. I do everything in my power to try and help Winter Park grow, the Co just has not pulled the trigger.

I am 200% for the growth of the sport. My "opinion" about the views of Milwaukee Co has no basis in fact, it was a speculation. (Me refering to discers as lazy hippies is taken from Terry's post about most players being to lazy to reclassify due to amnesty anyway). The GLDGC has done an outstanding job. Terry knows I have offered to help numerous times with numerous projects (even before Franklin was in). It's rare that I get a call though, Terry keeps his stuff kind of secretive. And besides, I work 50 hours a week, have a wife, two young kids, puppy, and home disc golf course. Most of you guys are single, and definitely don't have kids. It is very rare that my schedule aligns with course work days (the only events I am made aware of - i don't get called too often to help take care of something somewhere when it is easily convenient for me, but why couldn't I go and take care of something on my own time, if it needs to get done, so be it). I hope disc golf at Dineen will bring the park back up to something that is well used and respected (I played golf there back in HS). But my comments were based in the now.

I meant NO disrespect personally, and apologize for the uproar the post caused (it didn't convey what I meant it to anyway). I suppose me having negative comments about the course is like calling your baby ugly. Sometimes a fact is a fact though. Fact is it's a great thing that there is a new 18 hole course at Dineen. Fact is Milwaukee Co has a ton of other nicer parks that would provide Token Creek style play (Hoyt, Wilson, Currie, Greenfield, Whitnall, etc, etc). Fact is Dineen plays very open and does not limit shot selection. Fact is Dineen has 3-4 really great holes, but fact is also that Dineen is mediocre by comparison with all other 95 in this state. Fact is it's because of the limits of what there was to work with at the park.

Mike, I will not bash you personally despite whether what you say is incorrect or uncalled for. You are entitled to your opinion (in the same way I was berated for expressing mine). I wish you would have talked to me before making personal attacks. I wish you would have not made baseless and untrue personal attacks based on the zero amount of personal knowledge you have about me. I am going to try and edit the previous post to put out the fuel to this fire. It was just my opinion, and if it causes this much uproar, it's better kept to myself. If you ever again refer to me as someone who pisses and moans but won't lift a finger - you **** well better do it to my face, or make some effort to know me first.

[MARKB]

Not to support any one side here but you are going to get a lot of positive criticism and your going to get a lot of negative criticism... I understand it sucks hearing something negative about a project you have put time and sweat into but I think there is some serious overreacting going on... Anything that even hints at a negative view gets taken very personally by someone, deal with it... Those people are telling their honest opinion and the nature of things is that not everyone will agree...

[msbatka]

I offer a sincere apology to Tim (Superberry) for the personal nature of my previous post. I agree 100% that it was uncalled for. His post was the straw that broke the camels back so he bore the brunt of my frustration. This is certainly not an excuse, rather an explanation.

I started my previous post by stating that I usually refrain from posting in response to things that get my ire. However, what got me so upset is that this thread should be a celebration. There is a new 18 hole course in Milwaukee. I am not saying that Dineen Park is above criticism. But go back and read this entire thread. The comments make it sound like Dineen is a bad thing for the sport. Perhaps people's expectations for it were too high. I agree that it's not as nice as Token Creek or some other courses we're lucky enough to have in Wisconsin. However, I think it's a nice addition to Greater Milwaukee and am very thankful to everyone who helped make it happen.

Tim and I are continuing our discussion in private. However, in light of my public attack, a public apology was appropriate.

[MARKB]

Mike -

I think a new course is a great thing, the more courses we have the more our sport will be exposed to people that have never heard of the sport. Knowing the park beforehand I will admit that my expectations were probably set too high originally since I could just vision the type of potential the park had if you took the walking paths out of play... After playing the course more its own identity sinks in and you can enjoy it for what it is, and you can see that they did a pretty decent job with what they had to work with... I am sure it will get tweaked some more down the road and should only improve upon itself!

Cannot wait to play Brown Deer...

[superberry]

"Perhaps people's expectations for it were too high."
EXACTLY! That is what was missing from my previous posts, the background about how I felt going into the course. I have been EXTREMELY hyped about all the new construction in Milwaukee and prep for the Worlds (despite not having enough points :().

Speaking of expectations, how did Brown Deer install go today? We had snow up here. Wish I wasn't working nights, I told my dad about it, did an old guy named Dick show up? Man, you won't believe how excited I (and I'm sure MANY others) are about Brown Deer!

[kellerthedog]

If there are high expectations for Brown Deer.......you won't be disappointed. To those who couldn't make it yesterday to brown deer park install, it looks to be awesome, i mean really frikkin sweet. (2 setting for each hole) From what i could see it looks like a mix of UW-Parkside woods (narrow lines, very tricky, long), which are the best woods around IMO, and some open, bomber golf with constantly guarded baskets and tricky shots that will test your ability to "up shot". With that said this winter should be sweet with Parkside, Dineen, Mukwonago, and now Brown Deer soon to be open all winter. This course, man, it just looked so fun/hard from what i saw during the install. This course seems to be an even par is a good score kind of course. Also, it is lefty friendly. I had to leave the install at 12:00-12:30 to blow it at the Big Paw, congrats to Sean Butler, 2-Time Big Paw champ!

[MARKB]

I got out to browndeer to walk around and I must say that it looks really great, cannot wait to play the course

[sf17713]

i heard that the old #5, 6 and 7 are now one 800' hole... sweet.. anyone know what time peeps are getting together next Saturday too finish?

[Jamesy2]

Great job by Terry, The Great Lakes people and all others involved in the procurement and installation of the new course equipment.

Looking forward to next summer and the great event.

[discglfr]

Thanks!

The course install went pretty good but there are a few things that need to get wrapped up.

This Saturday (Nov. 18th) will be the wrap up day for Brown Deer. Some tees and anchors need to be completed. Start time is again 9AM. For specific questions regarding the install call Mark Peterson at: 262-644-6094. Mark has been 'the man' with this project and he can't possibly receive enough pats on the back because they are well-deserved.

Thank you to all of you that have helped! Just 3 years ago all of Milwaukee County had 18 baskets in the ground. With Franklin, Oak Creek, Dineen, and Brown Deer we have gone from 18 baskets to 91. Plus we have more on the agenda! That's not too bad.

[superberry]

Thanks!

With Franklin, Oak Creek, Dineen, and Brown Deer we have gone from 18 baskets to 91 . Plus we have more on the agenda!.



That is very sweet!!!!!!

Don't you know this coming weekend is a holiday? - Deer Hunting.

[ck34]

In some places it's Wolverine hunting season...

[kellerthedog]

are the baskets in? if not when?

[uwmdiscgolfer]

the baskets are in all except holes 7, 8, 9 and 11 since we had to pour the concreate today. Otherwise, about 12 of us shot some doubles on the 14 holes. i dont know what won, but i do know the course played tough and fun!

The course has all 18 pins on property, but since we have to wait to put them in, 4 holes have two baskets on them for the time. I do not know when they will be put in their correct spots, but i would imagine they would be in there soon.

Thanks

[widiscgolf]

Ryan,

The course is fricken sweet!! Outstanding guys!!

I don't know who won first round doubles but second round doubles wondra/monroy won.

P Hamil said he was going out there tomorrow by 11:30 to put the remaining baskets in. I should be there by 11am.

Josh

[MARKB]

Yup I love the course, with some grooming or even without is still the best in my book in milwaukee county. I will be here often.

Any chance at making anything in milwaukee pay to play in the near future? :)

[Jamesy2]

"Any chance at making anything in milwaukee pay to play in the near future?"


Mark, Mark , Mark....

People have donated their time and effort to introduce more people to the game and get things set for World's and you are asking questions like this? :confused:

Maybe people could in free if they turn in their empty shell cartridges! :mad:

You need help man.

[discglfr]

Thanks Jeff for taking this one for me.

Let's just celebrate one increment of success at a time and go from there.

I need stop answering many of the questions on this board because it makes my head hurt but to simply put it, "NO, the county isn't interested in pay to play right now." In turn, they may go to it in 2 years, in 5 years, in 10 years or possibly never. It is still to be determined but isn't a priority to them.

Too bad you don't have a private course all to yourself Brunner. One that you could play over and over and over every single day. That would be sweet for so many reasons.

[widiscgolf]

Brown Deer Park is installed!! This will be I think the main host course for the final 9!! Maybe....

Talk about a awesome challenging course.... A mix of walnut ridge and ewing park mixed maybe.


Here are a few pictures I took this Sunday. Possible par scores with shooting down a very possibility with smart drives on the wooded holes.

Here is what I am talking about.

Hole 1
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole1.jpg

Hole 1 Zoomed
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole1zoom.jpg


Hole 2 - Dogleg to the right
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole2.jpg

Hole 2 Zoomed
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole2zoom.jpg

Hole 5
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole5.jpg

Hole 9
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole9.jpg

Hole 9 Zoomed
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole9zoom.jpg

Hole 18
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole18.jpg

Hole 18 Zoomed
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole18zoom.jpg



I hope that helps out. I should have some more pictures next week of Dineen and Brown Deer Park.

Best scores so far are -6 for doubles play.

P.Hamil / Dan S -6

J Hamm/ P Blake -6

[uwmdiscgolfer]

I want to give a big round of applause to everyone that came out and helped put the course in. This was my first opportunity to help put a course in and it was a great time. Its great to give back, and not just take like many other people do.
A special thanks to Mark Peterson for all of the hard work he did to get this in the ground.

[MARKB]

You know guys, I have never done anything to any of you and I asked an honest question and I dont really need any smart #$*&amp;$! answers.

I think a lot of persons attitudes towards me are out of line. So what if I have an opinion about a lot of things, and that I use my right to voice that opinion. Dont care? Dont listen. Screw you guys. I love this sport, I do. If I couldn't play golf It would definately leave a void in my life.

I love the people I have met playing this sport and the places I have traveled so far. For the exception of 1 or 2 people I dont' "hate" anyone or dispise playing with anyone. But for most people that judge me, they do not even know me nor would they take that time to get to know me.

As usual I will continue to say whats on my mind, if you like it or not who cares? Why would I come out and help out with courses with a bunch of people that would rather me not be there and rather me not open my mouth. I will spend my time with friends that I can enjoy a round of golf with on the weekend.

Why do I need help Jeff? Because I asked a question?

Anyhow, Brown Deer is a great course....

[widiscgolf]

Ok then.....


I'll just keep on helping out taking pictures of these sweet courses and post them here and in the 2007 AM Worlds thread. Again we should keep the thread clean of negative thoughts. We have to represent you know........


Josh

[amdiscgolfer]

Ok,

Not having played either course YET! I have to say that people are being a little judgemental about the location of Dineen and layouts on courses that have just been put into the ground. Nothing says that the courses are set up in their permanent state. Dineen is not in the best location but maybe the sport will generate a different pool of players from the location. Maybe some kids that live in the area will find out that there is more to life than drive by shootings and Gangs and the like.

And if not, then it is the responsiblity of the players who play that course to make sure that people in the neighborhood understand what the sport is, and how it can benefit those in the neighborhood.

But I suggest before people bash a course in its infancy, you let the course develop!

[amdiscgolfer]

Any chance at making anything in milwaukee pay to play in the near future? :)



I am not quite sure but I think Marks question was a simple question of if it will ever happen - not to segragate anyone demographic.

[kellerthedog]

if anyone plays brown deer in the next few days....On hole 16 (800ft) i lost an orange 175g Star Wraith and mr. don loper lost another disc not sure what color. From standing in the teebox, mine was about 30-40ft short to the right of the basket and don's was shorter on the left side of the rough. it was too dark to keep looking. thanks Ryan

oh and by the way, this course in one of the best, most challenging, and most fun i have ever played, definitely the flagship of 2007 am worlds and milwaukee county.

[superberry]

Brown Deer Park is installed!! This will be I think the main host course for the final 9!! Maybe....

Talk about a awesome challenging course.... A mix of walnut ridge and ewing park mixed maybe.


Here are a few pictures I took this Sunday. Possible par scores with shooting down a very possibility with smart drives on the wooded holes.

Here is what I am talking about.

Hole 1
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole1.jpg

Hole 1 Zoomed
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole1zoom.jpg


Hole 2 - Dogleg to the right
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole2.jpg

Hole 2 Zoomed
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole2zoom.jpg

Hole 5
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole5.jpg

Hole 9
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole9.jpg

Hole 9 Zoomed
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole9zoom.jpg

Hole 18
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole18.jpg

Hole 18 Zoomed
http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/hole18zoom.jpg



I hope that helps out. I should have some more pictures next week of Dineen and Brown Deer Park.

Best scores so far are -6 for doubles play.

P.Hamil / Dan S -6

J Hamm/ P Blake -6




OH YEAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[widiscgolf]

I believe Dons was a Light Orangish Champion Orc Ryan.

Hopefully they turn up!!!

[Karma Police]

If the rest of the course is anything remotely like the pictures you took Josh... then everyone is in for a treat. The course looks very challenging. Am worlds '07 is going to be sweet. Is it July yet??? Congrats and thanks to everyone who has put in the time and monumental effort to make this a reality for WI. '07 is going to be a sweet year.

[DeafDGolfer]

Nice plate of courses ready for AM Worlds!!

Went to Brown Deer Park today and enjoyed it very much with its layout! some holes layout are pretty sickening but challenging!! Look forward to play more rounds at Brown Deer Park. Many thanks to Mark the Shark and the GLDGC crew for the Dineen Park and Brown Deer Park. It is going to be a really tasty treat for disc golfers and AM Worlds!!

Vive Le 2007 AM Worlds!
Space Cadet

P.S. could I get the information of total feet of Brown Deer Park Course and how far is it on Hole 14 and 16?? looks like both holes are each roughly over 700 feet. is it??

[discglfr]

Space Cadet,

Glad you like both of the new courses. Again, Mark the Shark and the GLDGC are leading that charge. I'm just a front man:)

I have a nice color, hand held GPS unit and I would be willing to lend it to anyone that would want to spec out the new courses. This is all part of the Am Worlds prep work that needs to be done anyway so please PM me or e-mail if there is anyone out there with interest in doing it.

Thanks!

[widiscgolf]

Check PM Terry.

[klemrock]

First off, THANKS to all who helped getting these new courses in the ground! Kudos to Terry, GLDGC, etc.!

A few observations after playing Dineen last Friday:

Four of us played Best Shot (and played badly; scores were -3/-2).

Good mix of long/short and lefty/righty holes.
Very good use of obstacles.
Decent use of what little elevation change there was at the park.

Things that IMHO need some work:
-Teepads (small and already rutted - we only used two of them because they were so bad)
-Signage (needs more clarity)
-Flow (there was confusion between Tee #5 and Tee #7 as well as on the last few holes, but signage should take care of it). I kept trying to imagine the course flooded with 300 players and crew; it might be a little tight. Maybe use staggered starts for AmWorlds?

Other than that, we were all very happy with the new course!
THANKS again for the flurry of hard work!

[discglfr]

Thanks for the feedback Jim.

Your suggestions make sense. Also, I think many of the items you listed will be taken care of with good signs in place. The posts that are there are just that - posts. Once we get some things marked with GPS and then we get some sign layouts confirmed we'll be putting in some pretty sweet signs at both of the new courses.

Also, the tee pads for there and Brown Deer are going to be cement by the time Worlds rolls around.

So all in all...course signs will be installed and the tee pads will be cement.

[widiscgolf]

Well there will be only 2 rounds played on one course throughout the day. So 180 players a day at minimum.

Remember there will be seperate pools and each pool play there own schedule. I might be playing at Dretzka Park while you're playing at Brown Deer Park. I'm sure you see what I'm getting at.

There could be about 500+ players at this event. So the courses we will have should be enough to handle each division spread throughout those courses.

Remember the possible format::


We will likely have a 1-2-1-2 model for the rounds. That means you will play one round on the first and third day while playing two rounds on the second and fourth days. Alternatively, we will use a 2-1-2-1 model which means you will play two rounds on the first and third days and one round on the second and fourth days.

[discglfr]

Careful there Josh...

You have a few things wrong in your last post.

First off, there will likely be 3 rounds played at some of the courses each day. The 1-2-1-2 format or the 2-1-2-1 format is what a person might be playing but that doesn't mean the course will only have 2 rounds played. We will likely have a morning round, a mid morning round, and an early afternoon round at most of the courses most of the week. Again, most courses will have 3 rounds played on it each day but no competitor will play more than 2 rounds in a day.

Secondly, you lead people to think we are going to have 5-somes by stating 90 x 5. That is in fact NOT the case. We plan to keep things to 4-somes or less for each of your rounds.

I'm not getting worked up here but remember what I have said in the past - watch what you (or anyone) write because otherwise wrong information gets posted and rumors start to fly. In fact, that's the main reason I even log onto any message board - to help control wrongful rumors.

Thanks,

[widiscgolf]

True True. Thank you for making the corrections. I was just going off my past experience which was only 1 worlds I played in. I know you been to a ton of them so of course you have more information than I do. Lead on.....

[tkieffer]

Played Brown deer with the pins in the current long position and about 10 inches of snow. This course was a ball buster, and we ended up cutting short our second round after 15 holes. Everyone who shoots this course will be very challenged, and I'm predicting that no one will shoot under 50 during the tournament next Saturday.

Am Worlds players better bring it when playing this course next summer!