Illegal Searches at HMDGC??

[DSproAVIAR]

I have not witnessed, but have heard first-hand accounts of Metropark Rangers stopping disc golfers and searching the golfers and their bags, without any cause. Tickets have been issued. Do disc golfers waive their rights when they enter a Metropark? Is this legal? Any thoughts/observations/suggestions? This angers me.

[bruce_brakel]

Probable cause is required for a search of your person or possessions. I've heard that the HM police have been more aggressive recently. They were certainly aggressive during the No Foolin'. Maybe they have monthly quotas now.

[DSproAVIAR]

Thanks Bruce! Do you think that, by entering a Metropark, applied consent is given? If not, then is it true that the only ways one can be searched is by (1) specifically consenting, or (2) the officer has probable cause?
Thank you

edit: Not that it would be a problem for me, but not knowing and not having rights can be very similar to each other.

[thetruthxl]

I haven't seen the laws on the books, but I was under the impression that recently, a bill had been passed that gave police the right to 1) bring a dog to any violation and/or 2) no specific permission needs to be granted for a search.

LIKE I SAID, THIS IS JUST THE RUMORS FLOATING AROUND. Can anyone (Bruce) confirm this or should we just take the tazer?

[scottcwhite]

"The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced."
-Frank Zappa

[MP757]

From what I know and have been told from others over the years, is that park rangers have the ability to enforce whatever rules are posted and they do not need a search warrant to search cars, campsites, and people as long as you are in the park grounds. A park ranger can't pull you over on the way to the grocery store in your neigborhood and search your stuff, his power resides within the park.

[bruce_brakel]

You cannot post a rule and thereby abrogate the US Constitution. That is not one of the specified procedures for amending the Constitution.

[DSproAVIAR]

That is not one of the specified procedures for amending the Constitution.


That's funny

[padobber]

Sounds like a lot of BS to me, you don't give up your rights just by entering the park. If that is the premise that they are going on then it needs to be clearly posted and not a vauge reservation that can be used anytime the piggies think that someone doesn't look right. Hopefully all of these issues are resolved by the time I return from my exile in NH!

[dischick]

the metropark rangers are going a bit overboard here....
however, i do think that people should be a bit more mature in what they do at the park. i met a gentleman out there discgolfing, and he was upset about the types of activities he witnessed when bringing his children to the course.
i do think that the rangers should be trying to target the drunk high idiots that go out there and do these types of things in the middle of the fairways.
what upsets me the most is the fact that i myself have been a target when i do NOTHING wrong out there. i must look like some sort of delinquent-
as a club member who pics up every bit of trash and shows up for the tree planting parties i have probably been messed with more than anyone out there. it is true i went into the pond to retreive a disc- consider this the warning that you may not under any circumstances step foot in that water. be warned that if your radio can be heard outside of your car you will be ticketed. be warned that even though alcohol is now allowed to those of age you may not set so much as one foot on a bike path. i think they should be trying to stop the young juveniles that go out tehre and break trees, bash beer bottles, and partake in other illigal activities. but we as club members do not have a "get out of jail free" pass. we should but we dont.
what upsets me the most is how rude they can be- i think it is completely innapropriate. just cuz youre a park ranger it does not give you more power than G O D. lets face it, they hate discgolfers. it is us dealing with the consequences from what the casuals go out there and do. it is from what they do that gives the sport a bad name. and we are the ones who suffer. not fair, but its not a fair world.
so we as the club members need to go out there and set the example.

[denny1210]

on a tangent:

several years back i showed up at kensington one saturday morning to play ball golf. we had a tee time for 4, but our little irish friend was a wee bit incapacitated from friday night and didn't make it to the course. we were then informed that we'd still have to pay the full 4 greens fees as was their policy.

i tried to argue that they never informed me of that policy on the phone and that i'd never heard of a golf course having such a policy before. they assured me that their employees were trained to inform all callers of the policy. i said that i was sure that was the case, but in this particular instance there was a minor oversight on their part and i was not going to pay the extra greens fee. they said, "you ain't got no fifty cents, you ain't gettin' no coke!"

i said that we were going to go play somewhere else, they would lose 3 greens fees and we'd never play there again as if they cared. (somewhere in there was one inadvertent f-bomb)

next thing i knew there was a huge, red-faced ranger up in my mug who yelled "get out" and then shoved me back a couple feet. i put my arms out to the sides, backed up, and apologized for my outburst and said we'd be happy to leave peacefully. that merited me another shove, and then a third, and then a fourth.

then came a rare instance in which i applied something from college to real life by writing a "settlement letter" to the metroparks. after several letters back and forth including one where they insisted i turn over the fictional taped conversations proving that they routinely failed to inform people of the policy on the phone, to which i replied that they'd only get a copy by filing a discovery motion once litigation began, i finally got what i was after: a free round of golf for me and three buddies with carts.

kensington had a tourney the day we wanted to play, so we ended up getting our free round at willow. i brought my letter from the director of metroparks to willow and the two 16 year olds behind the counter read it over and wanted to know why were entitled to the round. i tried to brush it off by saying that our previous experience didn't quite meet our expectations. my buddy made me tell them the whole story, which they thought was hilarious, since it turned out that they knew the park ranger in question and weren't particularly fond of him. every three holes or so someone on a cart would stop by our group and ask if the golf was meeting our expectations, and every time someone hit a bad shot we'd all yell, "that shot sucked!" to which they would respond, "yeah, but it's FREE GOLF!"

. . . and then there was the time that i got pulled over driving a u-haul with twelve guys in the back coming out of huron meadows golf course to be lectured on reckless endangerment for half an hour until finally the ranger admitted that it wasn't actually illegal to haul people in the back of a u-haul, to which i responded, "well i certainly appreciate you taking the time to express your concern for our welfare, but i've got three guys in the back that are about to go into the dt's unless we get them to a bar, so i think we'll be going now."

. . . now back to your regularly scheduled thread

[DSproAVIAR]

I heard a first-hand account of the searches. The second-hand story was, as expected, exaggerated. The officer did bring a "witness" who smelled a crime earlier during their round. The group of 3 was patted down and 2 of them were issued tickets. Also, rangers are using binoculars to watch golfers all around the course, especially the original extras.

[j_d]

we have got some 'Barney Fifes' (go to TVLand, watch the Andy Griffith show where Don Knotts plays the over-enthusiastic deputy sherriff) on the loose -- now we need an Andy to show up to reel them in before they go too far

[denny1210]

Jim:

I think you've got that calm, friendly "Andy" demeanor. I vote for you.

[DSproAVIAR]

before they go too far


I think the line was crossed when upstanding disc golfers got ticketed for relieving themselves in the woods. 2 good people may soon be on the sex offender's list.

[padobber]

It is such a fine line between them busting people for drinking underage and causing problems in the park or smoking pot (which is still, though unjustly, illegal) and harassing everyone who plays disc golf. If you see a moron hanging off a branch and screaming obscenities while mothers with children flee the scene, then by all means check them out and see what their deal is. I was looking for a disc just into the woods and got a look over by a ranger that my brother even described as "the ok one". Part of the problem is that they see playing disc golf as a suspicious activity.
They have new found power and want to use it. Hopefully they will chill out in a little while.