Frustration with CFR discs

I'm very frustrated with the whole CFR disc thing and had to vent. I have a 2003 CFR Starfire that I got for $10 from someone selling a bunch of their stuff and I love it...it's my favorite driver. Unfortunately, I can't be spending $25 per disc to get a replacement for it so once it's gone or broken in too much, then I have to get used to a new mold.

I understand the whole concept behind CFR discs, but when stuff that comes out like the new Wraith that will only be CFR (pro plastic doesn't last long in the heavily-wooded courses of Oregon) and is only available for $20/disc, it causes a lot of frustration. Why do so many different discs have to be CFR-only? We now have the TLs, ELs, StarfireX, StarfireL, Wraith, Roc, and whatever else there is. I like the concept of glow candy discs being used as CFRs because I can still throw something of the same mold even if it isn't as cool and the Rocs have achieved such a cult status that it would be unlikely that they will ever be a regular production run, but I was really excited about the new Wraith and the news that the Champ plastic will only be available at high prices is just a huge letdown :(.

The new advances in disc art are popular and the intrinsic value of those are often enough to generate fundraiser sales...aren't there already enough discs that are widely unavailable that there don't need to be any new ones set aside for that purpose? A disc with the speed and glide of the Wraith would be very popular and appreciated by a lot more people if it was widely available than if it's made for a select few willing to shell out a bunch of cash for a single disc.

Props to Discraft for making the Z Avenger a regular production disc.

[my_hero]

I agree. I think companies should limit the CFR molds to 3 or so. The concept behind CFR's is great. TD's buy them for $7 and sell them for $20-25. Let's hope they add the money to the tournament like they are suppossed to, and like they agreed to in the "terms of service."

[brookep]

Not to make light of your concern but coulden't you just get yourself a pitcher of Ruby and relax.

am I understanding that this is how disc companies sponsor tournaments? Instead of just shelling out money like other sponsors that are not involved in the sport do?

ACk...someone just had to mention Ruby....that's it! I am leaving work, jumping in the car and driving back to P-town. Edgefield here I come!!! Save me a pitcher of Hammerhead too.

On the topic...I understand the CFR issue...I, however, love the new Pro plastic stuff. Granted, I don't have as many trees to contend with in Idaho as those Portland courses do (why is it that I love Pier Park the best).

Having said that, I understand why they run the CFR for certain discs. You can make a whole lot more money to fundraise for tournies that way, and hey, who doesn't like having a few extra benjamins to the tourney money?

I do wish there were some halfway type point, but wait a tick...what about X-outs! I am brilliant. Which reminds me, I was going to put in an order with zonedriven....

The new advances in disc art are popular and the intrinsic value of those are often enough to generate fundraiser sales



I have the same opinion. They have ways to make cool discs that sponsors can buy so they don't need to be making it difficult for players to get certain discs. Forcing players to act as sponsors just to get the discs they want to throw is not a step in the right direction for disc golf, IMO.

[bruce_brakel]

It is Innova's disc and they can price it anyway they want to. If it is worth $25, pay it. If it is not worth $25, throw something else!

CFR is what it is: Candy Fund Raiser.

Why are Thin Mints so darned expensive is what I want to know. You can only buy them once a year [and then only if you know a Girl Scout!] so you have to stock up, and then they are like $4 a box!

yes a fund raiser, but it is being raised by the players again! when will stop sponsoring ourselves?

[donnie1980]

mmmmmm.. thin mints...

On the CFR issue I agree with Bruce. They are either worth your 25 or they arent. If you love that CFR starfire so much then it is worth 25. My first CFR disc is still in fine condition and Ive had it for a few years and play plenty of wooded courses.

[gokayaksteven]

keep it going with the champ rocs and glow candy and/or special stamps. make the molds avaliable to those who want to throw them and who do not want to pay 20-30$. it is sort of like blackmail i think. not neccessarily unethical, as it is a great fundraising tool, just very frustrating. when you pull a disc out of your bag to throw and realize it cannot be replaced easily, it adds another issue to ones mental game. i just stopped throwing rocs [and starfires] because of this.

It is Innova's disc and they can price it anyway they want to. If it is worth $25, pay it. If it is not worth $25, throw something else!



Of course they can charge whatever they want, I think that's pretty obvious, but that wasn't the point of my post...the point was that I'm frustrated with it. If I was just as content to go out and throw something else then I wouldn't be frustrated in the first place.

I've never understood why a company would intentionally hurt their disc sales by only releasing a limited number of the most desirable discs. Does anyone doubt that a Champ StarfireL would be one of the most popular drivers on the market? Maybe it's to protect the sales of discs like the Orc that would become less desirable? You could even produce them in regular production numbers and add a $1-2 fundraiser "tax" to discs like the Starfire and Wraith and raise a lot more funds simply due to the volume of sales nationwide and not just regionally at specific tournaments. I know people can buy on the Internet, but that adds another $5+ per disc and they become even less affordable. Use the Inncolor to sell for $25 and make some extra money as those are viewed more as collector items and not something that people necessarily want to throw.

It is Innova's disc and they can price it anyway they want to. If it is worth $25, pay it. If it is not worth $25, throw something else!



Of course they can charge whatever they want, I think that's pretty obvious, but that wasn't the point of my post...the point was that I'm frustrated with it. If I was just as content to go out and throw something else then I wouldn't be frustrated in the first place.

I've never understood why a company would intentionally hurt their disc sales by only releasing a limited number of the most desirable discs. Does anyone doubt that a Champ StarfireL would be one of the most popular drivers on the market? Maybe it's to protect the sales of discs like the Orc that would become less desirable? You could even produce them in regular production numbers and add a $1-2 fundraiser "tax" to discs like the Starfire and Wraith and raise a lot more funds simply due to the volume of sales nationwide and not just regionally at specific tournaments. I know people can buy on the Internet, but that adds another $5+ per disc and they become even less affordable. Use the Inncolor to sell for $25 and make some extra money as those are viewed more as collector items and not something that people necessarily want to throw.




The sale of CFR discs allows for local fundraising, a national fundraising effort would need to be sorted to all the local clubs and courses.

[sandalbagger]

this is getting silly. CFR's are for fundraising. If you find that you like a CFR disc, then buy more of them. Who cares if they are $20 -$25. If its worth it to you then it is. At least your not paying $200 for a new golf club. If $25 is too much, then the disc obviously isnt worth it to you. Its like me and my Marino rocs...yeah $50 for a new one is a bit much, but I absolutely need one in my bag at all times.

You also seem to think that the disc makes the player. The differences between discs are not as important as the ability of the thrower. The differences between discs are also not that drastic.

A Champion Starfire L.... try a Valkyrie with a touch of hyzer.
A champion Starfire X ... try a Elite Z avenger.
a Champion roc ... try a Elite Z wasp.

There are alternatives for a good player without much money. There is not a disc that you can't play without. If you got a disc, you got a game.

I still think they should swith those CFR molds out, for instance, run the Wraith in the CFR/limited run and give us the Champion Starfire in regular production. Instead it looks like we may get BOTH in limited runs. WTF, do you want us to throw these discs or what?? I know I do, I want to throw whats comfortable to ME and will last long. I KNOW the Pro Starfires wont last long so I want a Champion version but Im not gonna look on Ebay and go here and go there to find a CFR Starfire....

I HOPE that made sense.

You also seem to think that the disc makes the player. The differences between discs are not as important as the ability of the thrower. The differences between discs are also not that drastic.

A Champion Starfire L.... try a Valkyrie with a touch of hyzer.
A champion Starfire X ... try a Elite Z avenger.
a Champion roc ... try a Elite Z wasp.

There are alternatives for a good player without much money. There is not a disc that you can't play without. If you got a disc, you got a game.



ooo...I would beg to differ on some of these comparisons...But the good news....X-Outs!!! Go get you some X-Outs! cheap comestically blemished identical discs to CFRs. zonedriven.com has them. I am sure some other places have them....

It is Innova's disc and they can price it anyway they want to. If it is worth $25, pay it. If it is not worth $25, throw something else!

CFR is what it is: Candy Fund Raiser.

Why are Thin Mints so darned expensive is what I want to know. You can only buy them once a year [and then only if you know a Girl Scout!] so you have to stock up, and then they are like $4 a box!



But are you allowed to compete in cookie eating competitions using girl scout cookes? ;) Also, compareing fundraising for a non-profit orginization to a disc golf tournament is pretty weak.

I know they can do whatever they want with their CFR discs. That doesn't mean I have to like it. That also doesn't mean I have to be quiet about it. I already talk with my wallet and have taken almost all of the Innova out of my bag. Now I'm also talking on here about it, too. Most companies encourage customer feedback. Dave seems to be very level headed so I have faith that he'll consider others' opinions. If it makes sense to continue the CFR program the way it is then he'll do that. If we never voice our opinions then he probably won't ever consider changing it, though.

[Znash]

It is nice to have the Z-avenger now, makes it allot easier to get a disc like the CFR starfire. Since before it their wasn't a disc like it.

[cbdiscpimp]

It is nice to have the Z-avenger now, makes it allot easier to get a disc like the CFR starfire. Since before it their wasn't a disc like it.



Funny how you bash Discraft one day then praise them the next. Would you make up your mind???

[Znash]

I don't favor one company over the next; it's all about the disc not the maker. I just sucks when they change a disc that I throw; it would be the same for you if the stopped making the challenger.
Do I like paying $25 for my Starfires, no. Do I like that Discraft cancelled the Swirl, no. Did I like it when Innova changed the Tee-bird, spider, and the starfire, no?

when did innova change the Teebird? As far as I know they havne't changed any of the molds of the Teebird.

-Scott Lewis

[paul]

It is Innova's disc and they can price it anyway they want to. If it is worth $25, pay it. If it is not worth $25, throw something else!

CFR is what it is: Candy Fund Raiser.

Why are Thin Mints so darned expensive is what I want to know. You can only buy them once a year [and then only if you know a Girl Scout!] so you have to stock up, and then they are like $4 a box!



But are you allowed to compete in cookie eating competitions using girl scout cookes? ;) Also, compareing fundraising for a non-profit orginization to a disc golf tournament is pretty weak.

. . .



Implying that the Girl Scouts of America is a "non-profit" in comparison to the USDGC is pretty weak too.

Teebird, TL is just one example.

[Znash]

From 10x plastic, to CE plastic, to the 11x plastic, to the champion plastic, the T-mold in the proline to the TL-mold in the same plastic, all of these disc fly different but have the same name, and most of them you can't get any more because innova doesn't make that mole or plastic any more.

I have never had seen any other discs from different companies fly differently from run to run or plastic to plastic...<-read with much sarcasm

NEWS FLASH - Plastic molding is not an exact science! All manufacturers and all disc molds will have some variation between runs and even colors. It is a fact of life. There is no feasible way to ensure that all the discs in even the same run will come out the same.

The changing plastics, and changing molds (Tbird/TL, Old Beast/New Beast) are just a part of life. Does Nike make the same shoes every year? Does Trek make the same bike each year? No. Things change. It is inevitable.

[my_hero]

Things change. It is inevitable.



Good point. If things didn't change we would all still be throwing Star Eagles, Aeros and Eclipses.

It is Innova's disc and they can price it anyway they want to. If it is worth $25, pay it. If it is not worth $25, throw something else!

CFR is what it is: Candy Fund Raiser.

Why are Thin Mints so darned expensive is what I want to know. You can only buy them once a year [and then only if you know a Girl Scout!] so you have to stock up, and then they are like $4 a box!



But are you allowed to compete in cookie eating competitions using girl scout cookes? ;) Also, compareing fundraising for a non-profit orginization to a disc golf tournament is pretty weak.

. . .



Implying that the Girl Scouts of America is a "non-profit" in comparison to the USDGC is pretty weak too.



I'm not saying the USDGC is a "for profit" event. I am saying that the USDGC is not a non-profit organization. I'm not saying the event is not worthy of sponsorship, just that it doesn't do as much positive work for the communitiy as the GSA and it isn't a fair comparison.

Here's a list of the programs that the GSA supports:

http://www.girlscouts.org/program/program_opportunities/

Is there a similar list for the USDGC?

All I'm saying is that comareing a tournament to an organization who's goal is to improve the lives of girls just to make a point is a low blow.

[Znash]

I have never had seen any other discs from different companies fly differently from run to run or plastic to plastic...<-read with much sarcasm

NEWS FLASH - Plastic molding is not an exact science! All manufacturers and all disc molds will have some variation between runs and even colors. It is a fact of life. There is no feasible way to ensure that all the discs in even the same run will come out the same.

The changing plastics, and changing molds (Tbird/TL, Old Beast/New Beast) are just a part of life. Does Nike make the same shoes every year? Does Trek make the same bike each year? No. Things change. It is inevitable.


If your going to make a new disc then call it some thing else. You don't see Discraft calling the avenger even thou it's a retooled predator, or the tsunami.

[cbdiscpimp]

If your going to make a new disc then call it some thing else. You don't see Discraft calling the avenger even thou it's a retooled predator, or the tsunami.



Could someone tell me what the<font color="orange"> HELL </font>he just said??? :confused:

[MDR_3000]

i was thinking the same thing..

Well, they actually did sort of change the name on some discs...look back at your post 10x, 11x, CE, Champ, TL, DX....I think that is what you were trying to say...The fact is though, I have picked up drivers from Gateway, Discraft, Innova (have yet to throw Lightning, not available around here), and DGA. I throw the same drivers, same weights (give or take one of two grams), sometimes even the same color, and they fly differently. No company has yet to figure out a way to make all their discs fly alike. Most of the time, they are reasonably similar. You aren't going to get a maxweight Monster that turns over downwind for instance.

You just have to learn to deal with the changes. Otherwise you will spend exorbinant amounts of money searching for 1st run Buzzz or 2001 CE Rocs, etc., etc.

[Znash]

Sorry about that one, I was in the middle of a conversation and didn't check the post. What I was tiring to say was that the tsunami and the avenger are both retooled predators, which don't fly like a predator so their not called predators. While Innova will retool a disc and keep that name while they quit making the old version.

How stupid of me! I never noticed that Teebird and Teebird-L were the same name.

[Znash]

How stupid of me! I never noticed that Teebird and Teebird-L were the same name.


I threw the pro teebird until they changed it to the teebird-L and stopped making the t version of the disc. I guess that was just one less sale that innova would get out of me.

It is Innova's disc and they can price it anyway they want to. If it is worth $25, pay it. If it is not worth $25, throw something else!

CFR is what it is: Candy Fund Raiser.

Why are Thin Mints so darned expensive is what I want to know. You can only buy them once a year [and then only if you know a Girl Scout!] so you have to stock up, and then they are like $4 a box!



But are you allowed to compete in cookie eating competitions using girl scout cookes? ;) Also, compareing fundraising for a non-profit orginization to a disc golf tournament is pretty weak.

. . .



Implying that the Girl Scouts of America is a "non-profit" in comparison to the USDGC is pretty weak too.



I'm not saying the USDGC is a "for profit" event. I am saying that the USDGC is not a non-profit organization. I'm not saying the event is not worthy of sponsorship, just that it doesn't do as much positive work for the communitiy as the GSA and it isn't a fair comparison.

Here's a list of the programs that the GSA supports:

http://www.girlscouts.org/program/program_opportunities/

Is there a similar list for the USDGC?

All I'm saying is that comareing a tournament to an organization who's goal is to improve the lives of girls just to make a point is a low blow.




Non-Profit organizations still need to make profits. They need to make more money then they did last year (or try to) and they need to pay salaries and benefits for employees. Non-profit is just a title that refers to their taxable status in the government. Non-profits compete against each other and against for-profit companies to make a profit. If they dont make money they are shut down just like a for profit would.

[brookep]

In-Flight still has Pro T's. I was just there today and they have an entire rack.

Post deleted by matchu

Fine, fine...I throw wildly inconsistent, all discs by your favorite manufacturer are consistent.

[gnduke]

I've thrown the same disc five times in a row and it didn't fly the same way from one throw to the next. Very inconsistent plastic.

My biggest problem with consistency is that I suck.