Can I buy a clue for 200 please

Ok I am relativlely new to this game, I played plenty of frisbee in my time. Anyway I have been playing this about a month now and am enjoying it very much. I have been throwing them sidearm as I seem to get more control this way compared to backhand with a frisbee. I have been reading alot about this and these threads and I want to know how in the heck your all getting this distance. I mean I am by no means a weenie arm. I am 6'1 235 and considered a big dude. I am doing not getting much more than 75 yards 150 feet or so. What the heck am I doing wrong. I know it has to be something in the technique. I try to get snap on hit etc... both backhand and forehand im just not getting the distance I would think I would get. I have a Innova Champion Beast, 171g. Innova Shark 169g, and my putter, working on getting more. I just wish I was turned on to it long ago when that sweet CE Plastic was more around. But I gots me some bids in to get me some

[shanest]

It all just takes time. Most of our first rounds were 20-30 over par and we couldn't drive more than 150 feet. There are some awesome technique articles on http://discgolfreview.com by Blake T. Read those, try and see what you're doing wrong and practice, practice, practice. Are you having all your discs hyzer out early as is common in most beginner disc golfers? That is a symptom of not snapping enough and therefore not having the disc hold its line for as long. But it is all about practice. I'm only 14, 5'7" and under 120 lbs, but my technique is quite good so I can rip my distance drivers into the low 400's on a field and still get good distance and control on regular holes because I play alot. I started in July of last year and played nearly everyday until school started, then we tried to go as often as we could after school, and almost every Saturday and Sunday, weather permitting. We still follow the same policy and the game is always improving. Also, try to find a local pro that's a nice guy to try and play with often so that he can help you with your technique and you can watch his.

[flynvegas]

Work on the follow thru, and smooth delivery. Snap will come, and with snap you'll get increased distance. Unless you've got money to burn why buy CE plastic? Learn to throw something that's being made now. Practice, practice, practice, ..............

Thanks for the replies, as for the CE plastic from what I hear, it was the best and had a good grip. So I want to buy what I can now before its too expensive. I dont understand though is why they dont make it anymore. I read at Innova.com they said something about running out of it or something, which dont make sense why not just buy more material or whatever.

[shanest]

It's all a matter of personal preference. Yes, CE is generally considered better, but I like to throw plastic that I can replace if I lose it, so I don't go out and buy anymore since I don't have any extra.

Well I will buy it as long as its still affordable, after that than I will go with the Champion line, as I own some of that as well.
As far as loosing them, per my origianl post I cant throw it that far so thats not a concern at the moment. LOL
I trying to get that remedied ASAP :)

I will tell you the secret to throwing 400' if you send me the 200!! Don't listen to everyone on here...there is a secret to huge distance and consistancy.


Ok, ok I will give it to you for free. The secret to distance and consistancy is PRACTICE. That's it. All you have to do to be good is practice.

Of course, practice doesn't make perfect, but PRACTICE MAKES PERMANENT! So, go to www.discgolfreview.com (http://www.discgolfreview.com), print off the throwing articles, and...well you know the rest.


<font color="red"> PRACTICE!! </font>

p.s. If you don't have any CE plastic now, DON'T GET ANY!! It will be the start of a very expensive addiction! Just learn to throw what we have now, and forget about CE.

I suggest discraft, but now I will be flamed and someone will mention the ROC and how Ken Climo throws Innova. Then the Gateway guys will come in and hype the element, then Discraft gets flamed again. Oh well...I like Discraft!!

LOL, its funny you mention that. I just got outbid by a flamer e-bay'r Im so ****** that disk thats in my avatar was what I was bidding on it was a first run CE eagle. 3 seconds when the bidding ended it pulled the trigger, and out bid me, leaving me no time to put another in. I sent him a e-mail letting him know what I thought about his FAGAT ways. ( Fight Against *** [*****] Tatics ). LOL ****** me off. Oh well im 33.00 richer :)

[vwkeepontruckin]

p.s. If you don't have any CE plastic now, DON'T GET ANY!! It will be the start of a very expensive addiction! Just learn to throw what we have now, and forget about CE.

I suggest discraft, but now I will be flamed and someone will mention the ROC and how Ken Climo throws Innova. Then the Gateway guys will come in and hype the element, then Discraft gets flamed again. Oh well...I like Discraft!!



Well said, everyone has their preferences. We all need to learn to just accept that!

[flynvegas]

Don't over look the DX plastic. Good grip, cheap, and can be replaced easily. Take a stack out to the field and practice your form.

[Chris Hysell]

Nothing to add here except that I have two unthrown, 1st run CE Eagles.

[discgolfreview]

SwePeter's site also has good info w/ pictures and the like,
http://hem.bredband.net/area46/

as for basic technique, the articles + seeing the throw in action: http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/throwanalysis.shtml
may be of some help

as for disc selection of plastics, i recommend innova DX, discraft elite X, or whatever is standard for the company since your current goal is probably technique and D. the "super premium" lines (z/champion/etc.) require a lot more speed to power them, and inherently fall off faster than the slower plastics. if your experience is in throwing lids, right now you'd probably be best off with something understable, fairly slow, and that will beat up and become easier to throw. for example, while that champion beast may be your longest disc when you have 350' of power, with 150' of power, there are probably 50 or more discs that will be longer and more accurate at this stage in the game. almost all of the discs designed from 2001 to present are very fast and very nose angle dependent which are not as conducive to learning as older discs.

i can almost always tell when someone started playing dg within the past 2-3 years since most of them throw with nearly identical technique catering to the wide-rimmed high speed trend in driver design. personally, i woudln't recommend a jump to any of the super premium lines until predictability/durability becomes the focus of your game and you are willing to sacrifice up to 20% of your max D for these things.

based on your dedication level so far, i'd guess that you'll be breaking 300' by midway through the summer.

blake t.

[boru]

The first disc I could throw worth anything was a Pro D Stratus. Those will beat up quickly and get VERY understable though, so you won't get much mileage out of them.

I got an Elite X Storm last weekend that I think would be great for a beginner. It has a ton of glide and hates to be muscled, like many understable discs, but it can do things like get distance under a low ceiling that are more typical of an overstable disc. With practice, you should be able to use the Storm for almost any shot on the course.

[quoteas for disc selection of plastics, i recommend innova DX, discraft elite X, or whatever is standard for the company since your current goal is probably technique and D. the "super premium" lines (z/champion/etc.) require a lot more speed to power them, and inherently fall off faster than the slower plastics. if your experience is in throwing lids, right now you'd probably be best off with something understable, fairly slow, and that will beat up and become easier to throw. for example, while that champion beast may be your longest disc when you have 350' of power, with 150' of power, there are probably 50 or more discs that will be longer and more accurate at this stage in the game. almost all of the discs designed from 2001 to present are very fast and very nose angle dependent which are not as conducive to learning as older discs.

i can almost always tell when someone started playing dg within the past 2-3 years since most of them throw with nearly identical technique catering to the wide-rimmed high speed trend in driver design. personally, i woudln't recommend a jump to any of the super premium lines until predictability/durability becomes the focus of your game and you are willing to sacrifice up to 20% of your max D for these things.

[/QUOTE]Word.

just take your time and the d will come, for me it was easier to get 300 ft with a XS/XL than a banshee/firebird

I remember my first time playing disc golf........ my disc went 100 FT up and 10 FT down!

The best advice has been given already is PRACTICE. Also it is fun to with lighter weighted discs...... Go to an open feild and just chunk discs using different stances and grips..... Everyone has their own style! :D

[daveoh]

LOL, its funny you mention that. I just got outbid by a flamer e-bay'r Im so ****** that disk thats in my avatar was what I was bidding on it was a first run CE eagle. 3 seconds when the bidding ended it pulled the trigger, and out bid me, leaving me no time to put another in. I sent him a e-mail letting him know what I thought about his FAGAT ways. ( Fight Against *** [*****] Tatics ). LOL ****** me off. Oh well im 33.00 richer :)



1st -
Practice is the only thing that will give you more distance, as a few have commented. I personally have never been a big fan of DX plastic - I throw all candy (Pro line or Z) because the DX gets beat up too quickly, but I know a lot of good golfers who can throw further and more consistantly with it. Personal preference is the key - try out a few different molds and plastics before settling in on one. Control and consistancy are much more important than distance to a relative beginner's game, anyway.

2nd -
Please refrain from using bigoted/homophobic phrases and comments on this public message board. Let's try to keep this mature, fair and openminded. It amazes me how many people continue to use this kind of language - even if you don't mean any harm, there are lots of people who will be offended by your words (not me personally, I'm straight and married, but I have a lot of *** friends.) If you do mean harm, then your problems are much too serious to be addressed on this message board.

3rd-
Have fun! Disc golf can change your life. Use it as a meditation practice and you will see the benefits throughout your personal and profesional life. Use every shot to think about how you can improve the next one. It's always about the next shot.

Sorry for the longwinded, tree-hugging, zen, world consiousness, hippy bull-schizzy.

Increase the peace.
:D

Not that watching your language will help your disc golf, but it will definitely help with your all around attitude towards the world, which does help your disc golf.

personally, this posting board has been a great way for me to improve my game. It is second only to practicing and playing.

Thanks to all.

[eddie_ogburn]

I am 6'1 235 and considered a big dude. I am doing not getting much more than 75 yards 150 feet or so. What the heck am I doing wrong.



Get an Orc.

[Chris Hysell]

Get an Orc? I don't allow that sort of talk around my house. Eddie, you had better bring a tent for this weekend if you plan on using that kind of talk at my house.

"Please refrain from using bigoted/homophobic phrases and comments on this public message board. Let's try to keep this mature, fair and openminded. It amazes me how many people continue to use this kind of language - even if you don't mean any harm, there are lots of people who will be offended by your words (not me personally, I'm straight and married, but I have a lot of *** friends.) If you do mean harm, then your problems are much too serious to be addressed on this message board. "

Ok I am new hear and by no means I do want to start a flame war. I read this last night and thought about whether I should respond to this or not. Well I chose to respond.
For one you quoted my post so this would indicate that you read it and chose to respond to it with what I quoted. Dude get off of your high horse. You will note that I spelled it in a differnt manner. I also indicated what I meant for each letter that I spelled it with. I did not in any way mean it in a dirogatory way like calling someone a Faggit. There is a differnce and by you posting that reply and twisting my words around to make me sound bad is messed up, and seems you have a differnt agenda altogher. As for my feelings about gays, I have no problem stating how I feel about it. Now before I comment on that let me say this. I am by no means a Jesus freak and or anything like that so religon etc... plays no part in why I feel about it the way I do. Its just gross period. EWWW !!! and I think it is nasty just to even think about it. LOL ! I too have a few *** friends but keep it out of my face and im cool with it, other than that im indiffernt. There now you dont have to put words into my mouth I just gave them too you. Ok rant over... Now back to the pertinant stuff I do appreciate all your help and feedback on my post. I hope to get out this weekend and try to implement some of the stuff you have written, and from what I read from the links and see what I can do now. As far as accuracy that not something Im too concerned about as my short game seems to be ok. Im usualy getting boggie or par even about half my holes. I just need to get that extra distance so I can turn them boggie and pars into birdies. Now I digress back to what I was talking about at the begining. I am one of the most kickback, lets twist one up type of guys, and am not somekind of butthead. That post just rubbed be the wrong way, and never did a have a *** type intention in that post. IMO this country has gotten to be to political correct what we cant even poke fun and laff at ourselves anymore, too many housewives with nothing to do but sit around and try to make this a society of robots. Dont do this, dont say that etc... I think peeps just need to lighten up a bit sometimes.... Peace out....

LOL, I was thinking about ordering one from discfly.com I read that dang novel of a thread about them, and seems to be getting two thumbs up for the most part.

"Please refrain from using bigoted/homophobic phrases and comments on this public message board. Let's try to keep this mature, fair and openminded. It amazes me how many people continue to use this kind of language - even if you don't mean any harm, there are lots of people who will be offended by your words (not me personally, I'm straight and married, but I have a lot of *** friends.) If you do mean harm, then your problems are much too serious to be addressed on this message board. "

Ok I am new hear and by no means I do want to start a flame war. I read this last night and thought about whether I should respond to this or not. Well I chose to respond.
For one you quoted my post so this would indicate that you read it and chose to respond to it with what I quoted. Dude get off of your high horse. You will note that I spelled it in a differnt manner. I also indicated what I meant for each letter that I spelled it with. I did not in any way mean it in a dirogatory way like calling someone a Faggit. There is a differnce and by you posting that reply and twisting my words around to make me sound bad is messed up, and seems you have a differnt agenda altogher. As for my feelings about gays, I have no problem stating how I feel about it. Now before I comment on that let me say this. I am by no means a Jesus freak and or anything like that so religon etc... plays no part in why I feel about it the way I do. Its just gross period. EWWW !!! and I think it is nasty just to even think about it. LOL ! I too have a few *** friends but keep it out of my face and im cool with it, other than that im indiffernt. There now you dont have to put words into my mouth I just gave them too you. Ok rant over... Now back to the pertinant stuff I do appreciate all your help and feedback on my post. I hope to get out this weekend and try to implement some of the stuff you have written, and from what I read from the links and see what I can do now. As far as accuracy that not something Im too concerned about as my short game seems to be ok. Im usualy getting boggie or par even about half my holes. I just need to get that extra distance so I can turn them boggie and pars into birdies. Now I digress back to what I was talking about at the begining. I am one of the most kickback, lets twist one up type of guys, and am not somekind of butthead. That post just rubbed be the wrong way, and never did a have a *** type intention in that post. IMO this country has gotten to be to political correct what we cant even poke fun and laff at ourselves anymore, too many housewives with nothing to do but sit around and try to make this a society of robots. Dont do this, dont say that etc... I think peeps just need to lighten up a bit sometimes.... Peace out....



You suggested that sniping on eBay, something you obviously think is wrong, is "***," not only with the acronym you used, but with one of the words in the acronym (i.e. ***). Someone, politely asked you to refrain from that on this board. If that's really that horrible for you, I suggest finding a new place to ask questions regarding disc golf. We're just guests here and should abide by the rules that our hosts have imposed. It has nothing to do with anyone being on a high horse, political correctness or any personal views. It's about following the rules that you agreed to when signing up to post on this free forum.

[daveoh]

No problem bro-
I didn't think you meant any harm, which is why I tried to be as nice as I could in my post. Just trying to educate. I certainly didn't "twist" your words - I just pointed out some terminology that I find offensive. I don't want to be one of those message board guys who chases away new posters - I welcome you to the forum - just try to be sensitive. There are a lot of different types of people in the sport, and we want all of them to be welcome.
:)

<font color="red">don't get an orc yet!!!!! </font> get a teebird and maybe an elite x express from discraft. both these discs changed my game when i started last year. I improved my distance and accuracy with the express. ORC= too overstable for new players. light teebirds and eagles are good then once you start turning them over get into more overstable stuff like the orc and maybe a firebird for headwind. another great disc is the discraft buzzz. it is a midrange but man that thing can go far and is pretty fast so it would make a pretty good beginner driver. if you start to turn it over just start releasing with hyser and it will fly for a long way.
I am no pro I just started last year and have bought way too many discs to try and am sharing some of my gained knowledge with you so maybe you won't buy unneeded plastic. on the other hand i have been getting more and more discs i bought a while back out to throw now. :D

[discgolfreview]

before people name too many small diameter high speed drivers, going back to the original post of 150', i generally don't recommend anything fast until D is more like 220-250' or more consistently.

to get there from where you are at now, here is a list of discs i'd recommend:
innova dx cobra
innova dx panther
innova dx shark
discraft elite x storm
discraft elite x stratus
discraft pro d ecclipse
millennium aurora ms

chances are you'll "outgrow" these discs in not too long. as for good "first drivers" when you are in the low-mid 200's,

innova dx cheetah
innova dx raven
innova dx leopard
innova dx gazelle
innova dx ace
discraft elite x xpress
discraft elite x xl
discraft elite x cyclone
gateway sabre g1i (strongly recommend)
millennium polaris ls

this list above i consider "tier 1 drivers"
discs like the orc and beast i would classify as "tier 3 drivers"
i always push for people to work their way up incrementally because moving up to discs that are too fast and overstable will often lead to anhyzer tendencies which will severely limit your disc selection later on down the road and require a lot of adjustments to counteract. you'll get the most D and accuracy from the discs that are meant to fly at or below the speed you throw. keep in mind that it's a process along the learning curve with a lot of plateaus.

[boru]

It's always about the next shot.



Junkie!

[boru]

Blake-

You suggest moving up from beginner drivers when you can get 220-250' with them consistently. I just got an X Storm, and I easily get that kind of distance with it, and with Rocs/Wasps too. But I'm still not happy with where my throw is. I sort of set 300' as a benchmark for success with my midranges, at which point I plan to revisit some of my faster drivers. Of course, that's a consistent, straight-line, low-ceiling, accurate 300'. A lot of people on this board recommend sticking with your midranges until you can throw them really well before ever picking up a driver. I can see the logic behind this, and I'm trying to follow it (in sort of a "born-again" beginner way). Do you agree with this philosophy?

I should add that I have the luxury of a short, tight home course - perfect for midrange-only rounds - and a good long forehand for when I need more distance, so I can afford to take a while to master backhand technique.

[discgolfreview]

boru:
what i recommend is usually a mix of success and fundamentals. my philosophy is that DG is both a game and a sport. the game part is about having pure fun. the sport part is about struggling to improve and do what it takes to reach the next level of performance. i introduce a lot of new people to the game/sport and the majority of them will never be serious players. you also get a few who like it right off the bat and desire to be serious players who are willing to treat it like a sport. for the first group, if they have fun, there is potential for them to desire to take it more seriously sometime down the road. i accept the balance. many people need to see themselves succeeding before they will take it seriously and so i generally cater to this mentality first-off, and they will generally come back wanting to learn the solid fundamentals after they have plateaued on their own.

as for the learning with a midrange recommendation:
if someone from day one has committed to learning the baseline fundamentals from the ground up, they will be the best player in the future by taking this route as there is no back-tracking along the learning curve. it will also be months before they feel like they are crushing drives.

if someone is looking to have fun and could reasonably see themselves becoming a serious player, i recommend drivers that fall within their ability to throw well and also learning midranges. people usually seem to do well with throwing the "tier 1" drivers i listed above from ~225' of power up to 275-300ish and then should get another 10% D bump by moving up to tier 2.

hopefully this answers your question...

as for the midrange learning technique, "throwing them well" becomes relative. most serious players can throw a roc 275-ish or more (which usually translates into 350-ish power with drivers). from my experiences, the difference between 275' and 300' with a roc is about 5-10' of height. for someone who has midwest D, 275' with a roc is often equiv to 300+ of D in other areas. while that 300+ shot may be useful for them playing out of the area, in the area, it may not be very applicable.

the "fundamental check" type questions i would ask people:
-can you throw a midrange 275' or more?
-can you throw a putter 225' or more?
-can you make at least half your putts from 25'?
-can you straddle putt with similar success?
-can you jump putt?
-can you comfortably throw an air bounce?
-can you throw a roll curve (with power)?
-can you throw a long sweeping hyzer (with power)?
-can you throw a knife hyzer (with power)?
-can you throw a big anhyzer (with power)?
-can you throw a hyzer flip (with power)?
-can you throw a basic sidearm flick (not necessarily a drive)?
-can you read the wind and adjust to it?

if people answer yes to all (or at least most) of these, i see very little reason to backtrack because nearly all of the fundamentals are probably present. the big reasons people recommend learning with a midrange are to preserve finesse and for people to become less disc dependent (read as "learn every type of shot with 1 disc"). the big differences i see between adv players and pros are consistency and the number of types of shots they are comfortable throwing.

i realize i've written way more than you probably wanted to read, but i guess to sum things up:
learning with a midrange boosts the fundamental learning curve while slowing the "i want to throw farther" learning curve. most newer players feel the latter as the "i am improving" learning curve and i see no real reason to steer them away from this as they will likely hit a point in time where they will want to learn all the basics they missed along the way. if they never reach this point they probably were never intending to be a super serious player so for them, always driving with a midrange may reduce their fun level.

[boru]

Blake-

Thanks for answering! I must admit, I get a little bogged down in your physics dissertations, but I'll eagerly read every word of posts like that last one.

I think I fit your profile of someone who got serious about improving after playing for a couple months.

boru:
what i recommend is usually a mix of success and fundamentals. my philosophy is that DG is both a game and a sport. the game part is about having pure fun. the sport part is about struggling to improve and do what it takes to reach the next level of performance. i introduce a lot of new people to the game/sport and the majority of them will never be serious players. you also get a few who like it right off the bat and desire to be serious players who are willing to treat it like a sport. for the first group, if they have fun, there is potential for them to desire to take it more seriously sometime down the road. i accept the balance. many people need to see themselves succeeding before they will take it seriously and so i generally cater to this mentality first-off, and they will generally come back wanting to learn the solid fundamentals after they have plateaued on their own.

as for the learning with a midrange recommendation:
if someone from day one has committed to learning the baseline fundamentals from the ground up, they will be the best player in the future by taking this route as there is no back-tracking along the learning curve. it will also be months before they feel like they are crushing drives.

if someone is looking to have fun and could reasonably see themselves becoming a serious player, i recommend drivers that fall within their ability to throw well and also learning midranges. people usually seem to do well with throwing the "tier 1" drivers i listed above from ~225' of power up to 275-300ish and then should get another 10% D bump by moving up to tier 2.

hopefully this answers your question...

as for the midrange learning technique, "throwing them well" becomes relative. most serious players can throw a roc 275-ish or more (which usually translates into 350-ish power with drivers). from my experiences, the difference between 275' and 300' with a roc is about 5-10' of height. for someone who has midwest D, 275' with a roc is often equiv to 300+ of D in other areas. while that 300+ shot may be useful for them playing out of the area, in the area, it may not be very applicable.

the "fundamental check" type questions i would ask people:
-can you throw a midrange 275' or more?
-can you throw a putter 225' or more?
-can you make at least half your putts from 25'?
-can you straddle putt with similar success?
-can you jump putt?
-can you comfortably throw an air bounce?
-can you throw a roll curve (with power)?
-can you throw a long sweeping hyzer (with power)?
-can you throw a knife hyzer (with power)?
-can you throw a big anhyzer (with power)?
-can you throw a hyzer flip (with power)?
-can you throw a basic sidearm flick (not necessarily a drive)?
-can you read the wind and adjust to it?

if people answer yes to all (or at least most) of these, i see very little reason to backtrack because nearly all of the fundamentals are probably present. the big reasons people recommend learning with a midrange are to preserve finesse and for people to become less disc dependent (read as "learn every type of shot with 1 disc"). the big differences i see between adv players and pros are consistency and the number of types of shots they are comfortable throwing.

i realize i've written way more than you probably wanted to read, but i guess to sum things up:
learning with a midrange boosts the fundamental learning curve while slowing the "i want to throw farther" learning curve. most newer players feel the latter as the "i am improving" learning curve and i see no real reason to steer them away from this as they will likely hit a point in time where they will want to learn all the basics they missed along the way. if they never reach this point they probably were never intending to be a super serious player so for them, always driving with a midrange may reduce their fun level.



Bet you cant say that three times real fast :)
Seriously thanks for the input, from the sounds of it, you seem to be the man mang around here. I have read several things that had your name in the post. ( all of them good ).
Im pretty athletic and hope to catch on sooner than later. I have played a total of 5 times, the 6th being this weekend.
I picked up some discs today off of e-bay. All of which I have read several good things about.
They are as follows:
1) 2002 USDGC 176 CE ROC :) I hear this disc is the shitznit
2) Fat Tire Flyer Innova Aviar ( In black )
3) Rock City 167 CHAMPION ORC ONE OF A KIND TYE DYE ORC.
4) Brand New First Run Pro Teebird 167 gram
I already have a Champion Beast, Eagle, and Rubber putter.
Yea I know I went e-bay crazy in the last two days, but I am very happy about getting the USDGC Roc, and the teebird.
Peeps keep reccomending the DX Plastic, but I realy like the Champion and CE plastic just the way it feels in my hand, looks, and it seems to take a beating better. I have some lighting #1 flyer, and #2 upshot, but did not like it to much, both feel and it shows every Hit it has taken, unlike my champion plastic which seems to have more of a memory. I passed these discs onto my son.
Why does everyone reccomed the DX plastic ?

[discgolfreview]

zildjian:

multiple reasons:
1) the general problem for newer players is that they do not have the power to throw most discs stable (flat and straight). dx/elite x plastic, new, out of the box, is less overstable than than champion/pro line/z plastic, and will get even less overstable as it breaks in.

2) if you do not have > 300' of power, nearly the entire champion/z driver line will tend to force you to develop tendencies that will slow the learning curve. for example, if you want to throw your champion orc, you will probably have to force it anhyzer and very nose down (working from your original post of 150-225'). while you may easily work your way over 300' with this technique, it is not conducive to being able to throw a midrange/putter for D nor develop a good range of hyzer types of shots as well as will limit your disc selection in the future. for example, as you add power if you are forced to only throw the most overstable discs, you are also not throwing the longest flying discs on the market.

3) dx/x plastic is the longest flying of the plastics since it has a lower cruise speed. this translates into two things: first, it allows your discs to fly stable longer, and second, it allows you to throw shots that make the disc do the work (e.g. a double s-curve) and take advantage of their glide characteristics vs. having to power the entire throw yoruself.

4) dx discs break in very well. while they will probably take a bit of sanding to take off burs that will scratch your hand up, you will still have a use for them later on. broken in discs generally become turnover/roller discs. 1 year from now it wouldn't be surprising to be carrying a disc you started throwing long before for specific types of shots. very few, if any, of the upper end plastics will fit this bill from the get go or will take an extremely long time to break in.

5) most players prefer a uniform feel among their discs and often carry 3+ discs in different stages of wear rather than 3 different molds all new.

basically what i'm pushing is that you are on a specific spot on the learning curve and i believe players should let themselves move across that curve at the natural pace. it is very likely that you will be breaking 300' by august if you put in the time and effort. it's kind of a risk/reward scenario, worst case, yer out $16 and have a couple of discs that will serve their purpose as turnover discs. best case, by the time you decide to make the switch back to champion/z, you'll have an arsenal of shots that you may not have had otherwise. keep in mind i have nothing against people throwing champion/z stuff, i just think that the position you are in right now is too soon.

nearly all players who take dg seriously will end up hitting a plateau around the 340-360' range. they have the ability to throw farther, but not the tools. often they get stuck regressing a bit in order to develop these tools. i just try to plug the methods that will lead to the greatest chance of long run success. it's much easier to throw understable plastic and then learn to throw overstable plastic than it is to throw overstable plastic and learn to throw understable.

in the end, it just comes down to what you want to do. i have no doubt that you will hit 340' regardless of what discs you throw now (as long as you keep throwing). i'm just trying to point you in the direction that will give you the most complete game down the road.

Aight, Im going to lay off of the CE/C stuff for a bit anyways as It has given me a hit on my wallet in the last two days ( damm e-bay ) :) I got me some sweet discs and fufilled my mission, and I will have them for when I get good enough to use them. I will pick me up a couple disc in DX plastic for this weekend and give them a wirl. I will take a better gander through your previous lists, and the lists of others, and hopefuly my local area vendor will have them in stock.
I do appreciate all the time you have taken to type all that stuff and am finding it very insitefull. Same goes to all you other peeps out there that have taken the time to give a rookie like me some advice.

[Chris Hysell]

Hey Blake, nice explanation again. Do you think that someone could have success by not throwing midranges and putters or are they destined to be lifetime ams?

[discgolfreview]

zildjian:
i'd recommend the discraft elite x storm and then 1 driver from the list of tier 1 drivers i made. the storm is a solid disc that you very well may carry for a long time as kind of a 3-iron type utility driver. as for the tier 1 drivers, you'll probably outgrow them in the not too distant future and be ready for the faster plastic you have already picked up. good luck with it and i hope you keep us updated on your progress.

hysell:
i'd bet money that i'll end up a lifetime am so i'm probably not the best person to ask on this. but to give my best guess, i'd say, yes, it is possible for someone to have a lot of success, but for this success, i think that the player would need 1) to carry a higher mold count and know their discs extremely well, and 2) to have 3-5 additional shots that i did not list earlier. it's quite possible, just more difficult.

[Chris Hysell]

Blake I was just curious. Midrange discs just seem to move in and out of my bag. I never really use them. I typically drive and putt. I hardly ever approach backhanded unless I need to throw a 300ft+ approach. I have always been made fun of because my bag is full of drivers. I guess I developed touch with drivers and never felt the need to work with approach discs. That's one reason why I never responded to the thread on "wimpy underdrives/overshoot midranges". I don't have that problem. BTW, I've won a few tournaments without midranges.

[boru]

I know a couple guys here who hardly ever throw midranges and are pretty good players. Both of them throw long off the tee and putt well. These guys could probably hold their own with Open players on the mainland, but certainly not compete with the top pros.

A couple things about plastics: There is one couple good reason not to throw a lot of DX. It's too delicate. If you can't easily get more discs and you play courses that are tough on plastic, it's just not practical. I had this hammered home to me last night while playing with only a Wizard and a fairly new DX Roc. My Roc hit a diabolical metal thing we call the "cheese grater" and lost a giant chunk from the rim. With that one hit, it went from slightly overstable to quite understable. But if your courses don't have much metal or concrete and you can buy discs locally, there are some great things about DX.

Also, Blake, you keep mentioning Elite X. Isn't Pro D the Discraft equivalent to DX?

I'm not blake_t, nor do I claim to be, but pro d and X plastic is quite different. To me, pro d is much less durible then DX, but gripier. The X plactic is much more durible than pro d, think mid level plastic from discraft. I actually like X plastic over Z or even Innova's Champion.

Now on the topic of midranges, I have a close friend that would play near the 950 level that does not toss a midrange at all. I am much lower than my friend (like way lower), and I toss midranges more than 50% of my shots. Now every round I am probably going to shoot 5-6 strokes higher than my friend. Driving distance/accuracy and good putting will cover his [*****]. I do remember the first few round we played together. We shot close to the same score, he out drove me, but he couldn't putt to save his life. He worked on his putting and dropped probably 10 strokes per round.

BTW its 4:00 AM (CST) and I'm really drunk. If this post doesnt make sence, I'm really sorry. I kinda forgot where this post was going, so I'll probably finish it later.

My Roc hit a diabolical metal thing we call the "cheese grater" and lost a giant chunk from the rim.



I have a friend that found a DX Leopard in the middle of the freeway (he was looking for his Orc) that's all beat up and we call that disc the "cheese grater." The only shot it's good for is the one where it makes a sharp right immediately after throwing, hits the ground and rolls left, perpenicular to the direction it was thrown. It's for those times you absolutely have to get it in the lake. ;)

I agree that for many people the lowest line of plastics just isn't durable enough. Many people like the idea that they can just buy a set of discs and use them until they lose them without worrying about them getting too beat up to throw.

[discgolfreview]

boru:

will answer your last question first. while durability/price, pro D is a closer equivalent to DX, up until recently (pre-monster for innova, pre-crush for discraft) most of their discs were designed for dx and elite x plastics. to me, i found the truest flight was from these plastics, and the different plastics were altered versions of these "standards." both dx and elite x plastics are the longest flying from their respective manufacturers.

as for dx plastic, there's 3 ways to look at durability:
1) the speed at which a disc "wears out"
2) the uniformity of the wear that occurs
3) how long the disc retain its flight characteristics

old innova se and 8x/9x kc plastic, millennium pre 1.13 polaris/1.7 jls plastics, discraft early xtra era/sparkle elite x, etc., while they wore gradually, they had a very strong tendency to taco/fold on a solid hit but were fairly durable to normal glancing blows, abrasions, etc.

a couple of notable cases in my experiences sum each of these up:
1) the older kc banshees/exp1's were notoriously fragile. 1 good hit, the disc was folded in half beyond repair.
2) runs 1-3 of CE plastic, current Z plastic, old elite x plastic, etc. all wore very gradually.
3) wizards get really ugly after a while, warped flight plate, etc. but retain nearly all of their high speed flight characteristics (although fade a bit later after a tremendous amount of wear). on the other hand, runs 5-8 of the CE plastic had a quite abrupt change in flight characteristics where they retain nearly all of their high speed stability but lose a lot of their low speed overstability.

why i like dx plastic:
the first thing to go with these is the high speed flight characteristics while they will their low speed fade characteristics diminish gradually. i like this a lot because i throw 75% hyzers and i want discs i can flatten/flip from a hyzer and will still finish predictably (with fade). while dx plastic will get nicks, chips, folds, etc. quite easily, it is also easily repairable. pull out some fine grain sand paper/blocks and smooth off the burs (after questioning this legality a long time pro said "you are allowed to make a disc not cut your hand because you are not attempting to alter flight characteristics" and i have a few world's videos where people sand off rough spots on their discs on video without any protest). also, if you fold a dx disc, unfold it. if you want, fold it the other direction and then unfold it. fold it as many times as you want, then set a book on it overnight. tomorrow, the disc will be flat again. the same cannot be said for most plastics. while it's easier to scuff, it also wears evenly and gradually.

the tendency of newer plastics draws people away from hyzers. the world championships from 1990-2002 were won by players that throw mainly hyzers. climo (mid to late 90's), russell, todd all threw mainly hyzers during their championship runs. i decided to mimic this because it gives the most consistent finish. the last 4 distance records were also set with a hyzer flip. the latest trends in disc design are less conducive to hyzer lines, very high speed stable and very late fade characteristics. i could flatten/flip old ce teebirds, valkyries, and eagles, but i cannot flatten any of the newer champion/z discs with the exception of maybe a thrashed z xpress.

i get dozens of emails per month from people asking for recommendations on what champion and z discs will also give max D. while the discs to come may find this, for now, i tell people "that doesn't exist."

things i won't argue:
-premium plastics feel better in the hand
-premium plastics as a whole, last longer

i just never recommend them unless people want overstable discs, place a high premium on durability, or have power to spare and want a longer period of predictability and a strong finish.

usually i can get 2-3 dx discs for what most people pay for 1 champion/z disc. if you are careful with how often you throw a particular disc per round, i've found you can stretch out many dx discs for ~40 rounds before they really need to be "replaced."

[vwkeepontruckin]

A few things. First off, nobody knock me for what I say :).

Blakes recomendation for the G1i is very good. My dad plays with me here and there, and nothing goes farther for him than an "H" G1i (Formerly known as an Apache).

Second of all, the previous comment on the Wizard=Very Good. We have an Open player here in town that gives me a hard time for always plugging Gateway, but in his exact words at doubles last night "The Wizard is one of the truest flying discs, I'll give you that..."

I've also found from past expiriences that light weight "E"volution line G3i's are pretty good for noobs too! My sister parked a 225' hole yesterday with hers, and it was only her third time playing!

Have fun on the Linx!!

[vwkeepontruckin]

Oh yeah, as far as Gateway plastics go:
Our "S"ure Grip is along the same lines as "DX" and "Pro D".
Also, the "H"igh Performance is more durable than "S", discs in this plastic are domier, giving them more glide, and reducing their stability.
(With the exception of the Spirit and Speed Demon that are indeed domier, yet MORE overstable. But noobs should avoid high speed drivers anyways, so just ignore this!)

why i like dx plastic:
the first thing to go with these is the high speed flight characteristics while they will their low speed fade characteristics diminish gradually. i like this a lot because i throw 75% hyzers and i want discs i can flatten/flip from a hyzer and will still finish predictably (with fade). while dx plastic will get nicks, chips, folds, etc. quite easily, it is also easily repairable. pull out some fine grain sand paper/blocks and smooth off the burs (after questioning this legality a long time pro said "you are allowed to make a disc not cut your hand because you are not attempting to alter flight characteristics" and i have a few world's videos where people sand off rough spots on their discs on video without any protest). also, if you fold a dx disc, unfold it. if you want, fold it the other direction and then unfold it. fold it as many times as you want, then set a book on it overnight. tomorrow, the disc will be flat again. the same cannot be said for most plastics. while it's easier to scuff, it also wears evenly and gradually.




You forgot the much cooler stamps that Innova puts on the DX plastic as opposed text only stamps on higher end stuff. The picture of the bowling gremlin alone is enough to convince me to consider discs that may wear out faster. ;)

[boru]

Blake-

I didn't know about discs being designed for DX and X plastics. That's really interesting.

Everything you said about DX vs. candy makes a lot of sense. I actually like the feel of DX better than most candy. To me, only Elite X and Gateway's S feel better. And the smooth, straight flight you can get from a seasoned DX Roc is certainly easy to love. I don't even mind that DX type discs wear out faster than others. I can certainly deal with replacing a disc every month or so if its performance merits keeping it in the bag. What I don't like is how susceptible DX is to catastrophic damage.

Most of the time, if you put a dent in DX plastic, you can fix it. All it takes is a couple minutes with a candle, and you're good to go. DX and S are actually the easiest plastics to melt back into shape, because they get soft enough to work at a fairly low temperature. Champion plastic goes from rock hard to liquid extremely fast, while E from Gateway catches on fire. I don't see any problem with fixing discs this way, because if anything, you're returning them to their original flight characteristics.

The thing is, when my Roc hit the cheese grater, it lost a big slice of plastic, so there's no way to melt it back into shape. I don't have the luxury of a disc vendor anywhere nearby (the nearest one is probably 2500 miles away). It really has to do with that, and with the number of dangerous obstacles on my home course. Take out those two factors, and I think I'd throw a lot more DX.

By the way, Blake, your site is great. I've been reading it almost since I started playing, and besides this board, it's the best resource there is online. You've really made a lasting contribution to the sport. Keep the updates coming!

[discgolfreview]

DDH:
i dig both the sabre and apache for newer players, and personally, i think that the sabre is probably the truest flying point to point small diameter driver. still baffles me that the thing fades the same distance whether it's 30' off the ground or 10'. while it's not particularly long unless you can throw very high and nose down, it's definitely a disc i think that helps develop solid fundamentals all around. also, i live and die by the wizard, it's my money disc.

boru:
thanks for the comments. 3 words of advice: "buy in bulk." :) j/k.
there are definitely reasons to throw dx or not throw it. the initial part of this thread was mainly pushing it towards newer players. i started DG in the pre-CE era, KC/SE/Millennium/elite pro were the top of the heap in terms of durability, and boy, did they seem durable. nowadays people probably find that amusing. i do throw kc rocs, as i just like the feel of them a lot more and i find their flight characteristics to be what all kc plastic used to be, "slightly more overstable than the dx version." i'm also able through disc selection per hole, to stretch out the life of my dx discs to ~12-18 months each before they are rollers. the problem i run into with newer plastics is that the current upper end plastics are way too overstable for me to throw in the molds that i like. not due to lack of power, but due to the way they need to be thrown. while i can see how the pro and long throwing ams really enjoy em, as a whole i believe that they are too overstable for "most" (considering > 95% of dg players are rec players) players. they also seem to breed a uniform throwing style that seems to miss a lot of the base fundamentals of the game unless a conscious effort is made towards them. the hard (rhetorical) question to ask is at what point does durability dominate flight characteristics?

in the end, everything comes down to preference. the route you are taking seems very solid in its fundamentals approach, but i wish there was a greater following to that ideal. i believe the future of DG as a sport is through the rec players, first wowing them with things they cannot do, and then showing them how to do it. the problem with what i see now, is that people want to throw what is "best" and what they believe may not fall into the same category with "best for them." but i guess to sum it up, dx plastic isn't for everyone but it is good for many.

[boru]

the route you are taking seems very solid in its fundamentals approach, but i wish there was a greater following to that ideal.



Sometime around February or March, I became really disciplined about following the advice people gave on this board. Since then, I've gone from having a laughable backhand to being able to throw my midranges nearly as far backhand as my friends throw their drivers. So keep pushing your fundamentals, because it really does pay off for the people who listen.

Hey, today I went out to a football field to practice my drives. After I threw everything in my bag i noticed that I could get my putters (2 KC Pro Aviars) to 225 feet consistently. Somewhere earlier in the thread I think somebody said 225 feet with a putter tranlates to 275 feet with a midrange and that translates to 350 feet with a driver. Well now that I can hit 225 feet with my putter I could only get 275 feet with my midrange discs (2 DX Rocs) maybe twice the whole time I was out there and with my driver(DX Teebird) it would have been a miracle if I had gotten 350 feet because I didn't even hit 300 one time although I got close a couple of times. Shouldn't I have better success with my driver and midrange discs that I am having right now. Can any one explain why I have such good results with my putters and such bad results with my midrange and driver? Comments, suggestions and questions are welcome. Thanks in advance.

[discgolfreview]

dger3:
i wrote that before mainly using it as a benchmark. the plateau that most golfers hit after a year or so of playing is about 225/275/350 (there are many that will be able to throw putters/mids further) and then require some very big tweaking to propel themselves beyond it. but most players with enough practice should be able to approach 350' without perfect technique.

if you were able to get 275' w/ your rocs, then you do have the distance potential to get 275' with em every time and is mainly a question of execution. the focal points from throwing drivers vs. midrange/putters ends up being different. so many factors come into play such as velocity, snap, nose angle, hyzer angles, height, line, etc. the best advice i can give is to just practice and work on execution and fluidity. the driver distance will come with time.

i guess i would reword and say:
people who can drive ~350' can should be able to throw stuff at or beyond 225/275 for their other discs.

i was of the type that was able to drive 330-350' before i could throw a roc 200' as i hadn't learned how to finesse them properly. 225/275 was the goal i shot for and was able to pass them without increasing my driving D at all.

but most players with enough practice should be able to approach 350' without perfect technique.



I'm guessing that you recommend to throw about 350' you should use DX plastic? I have a DX Teebird thats 170g and it seems like everytime I throw it, the thing turns over pretty hard. I know its not the plastic although I can't turnover the champion ones. So I'm pretty sure it's my technique thats causing that? What do you recommend I do? I'm guessing that if I keep practicing I will get it down eventually and be able to put more spin on the disc. Do you recommend that I keep throwing that weight or should I go up to max weight (175)? Thanks.

Don't most pros (or at least a lot) throw with DX plastic so they can have the different stages of wear anyways?

[discgolfreview]

dg3:

i solely recommend dx, pro d, elite x, etc. caliber plastics for players with less than 250' of power. after that, it's a matter of preference and throwing style. recommendations given to someone who is first learning differ greatly from recommendations needed for players who have already developed a constant form/technique. out of people that throw 350', i see them throwing all types of plastics. however, for max D, i will always push dx, elite x, or equiv (plastics the discs were designed for) as they seem to stay in the air longer than the other discs. max D is not the same as consistent and accurate golf shots though.

i can think of at least a dozen reasons both for and against throwing any of the plastics out there.

as for your situation with turning over a dx teebird but not a champion teebird, this gives me some impression of the style with which you throw. a mid-weight or lighter dx teebird will turn for many players when thrown flat, especially after it has seen a little bit of wear. however, thrown with sufficient snap and flattened from a hyzer angle, they are one of the straightest flying drivers i have ever thrown. there are players out there that can dx teebirds well over 400' without having too much problem with turning them over due to their throwing style.

while adding a hyzer flip/flatten to your normal game may benefit you in the long run, the world won't end if you don't like throwing it. throw what you like, what you trust, and what feels good. the d will come with time. if you find yourself wanting "more d," then the difficult road really begins.

Went out to the same football field I did the past 2 days and started to throw my 2 KC Pro Aviars and didn't really hit 225' all that much. At the same time I was throwing my DX Rocs and getting pretty close to 275' and hitting that distance sometimes. While throwing these I also threw my DX Teebird and Firebird and about halfway threw my throwing I started to throw them 300-320' sometimes, the only problem was that i really couldn't get the accuracy down that well (sometimes not even landing on the field lol). The ones that did not land in the field were landing to the right because they turned over but a big reason they were doing that was because there was a wind going from my left to the right. After I started getting a huge blood blister on my index finger I put the Aviars away and i threw some more with great results. I could get my drivers out to 300'-320' pretty much on one of the 2 I threw. With the Rocs I didn't have the same success but I could get pretty close to 275' every time. Sorry for the rambling but I just wanted to thank people for there help and advise. I hope by the end of the week I will be hitting 350'.

[discgolfreview]

dg3:

glad to hear that things are coming around.

i used to hit soccer fields and, for a time was throwing 175-225 drives a day, nearly every day... the blister, blood blister, blood, and eventually tape, became a common occurance. i recommend johnson & johnson waterproof tape as it has very little friction on the disc rim although has some circulation issues :p

a couple of words of advice on the road ahead:
-350' probably won't happen overnight. you have to first go from 300-320 to 310-330, and so forth. the increases from here to then will probably be incremental, but hopefully continue to happen as you throw more.
-at some point the return to accuracy will be the focus. at that point, utilize the hash-marks on the football field and see how many you can land between them (while still getting the D).
-don't be afraid to try new things. types of throws, discs, etc.
-keep it up. the more practice = the faster it'll come around.

I went from 300 to 200 to 350 in a week, but I had a serious technique problem. Now I throw a consistant 350-360 with Z Wildcats (I haven't caught on to the newer drivers yet), 300 with D Wasps, and about 270 with D Challengers.

I recomend starting out with DX plastic and learning the properties of discs in different stages of wear. You will also learn different angles of release. These things are harder to learn on high end plastics, because they are durrable and extremely angle sensative.

If you find your discs beating up very quick, you may want to pick up a few high end discs, but I suggest ALWAYS having more standard plastic than high end plastic. It is better in the rain, heat, and snow, more consistant from run to run, grippier in the hand (and the chains), and cheaper. This is why Pro's recomend and throw it!

-don't be afraid to try new things. types of throws, discs, etc.



Today I went out and bought 2 DX Beast and noticed that I could get way more distance and predictability than the DX Teebirds I have. I'm thinking about making the Beast my main driver and had some questions about it. How does it handle in the wind (will I need to get another disc for the wind or will a 175g Beast do). Also I was wondering how it does in different stages of being beat(semi-used and heavily used)?

[discgolfreview]

my experience with the dx beast is limited (it has a rim wider than the middle joint on my index finger is long = hard for me to get a good grip). i did pick up a first run/proto (innova stamp, didn't say beast on it) on my lone trip to la mirada but put it in a pond after about 20 throws.

thrown on a hyzer line w/ less than 400' of power and it should hold up into a head wind. although, nearly any stable to overstable disc can fly stable into a moderate headwind with the proper manipulation of angles. i'm referring to the run of the mill up to 20 MPH headwinds, as i have no idea how it would fare into say, 40+ mph.

unfortunately i lost it before it got any wear so i can't answer the latter question. but i was still able to throw my dx teebirds farther (mainly due to throwing style and the rim problem). i don't throw with a lot of base velocity and the beast was just too fast and nose angle dependent for my tastes but i can see why a lot of other players like it.

one constant trend with wear though on fast, very low profile discs w/ a wide rim, they tend to taco on a good smack and get understable. similarly, the beast doesn't fade until quite late in its flight (80% or so) so stability may become a problem in the long run. granted, this is coming from someone who likes super beat up dx eagles or moderately beat up dx teebirds as stable drivers.

[Cdale600]

Hey Blake,

Lots of good stuff here. While your brain is being picked I wanted to ask about the hyzer flip vs. flat release. I throw most of the time with a hyzer flip. This lets me throw my putters, midrange, and drivers with basically the same technique without much fear of turning them over. I really find it hard to throw a putter past 100 feet without releasing it with a bunch of hyzer.

I am able to flatten out anything up to a 166g Orc or a 175g champion beast. It also lets me throw less overstable discs the same, but I get a big S out of anything less overstable than a Viking. I can even throw my dragon without flipping it, but I get a huge S curve out of it. Is this a positive thing, or are there advantages to releasing flat? When I release discs flat I have a tendency to flip them and have to compensate by throwing more overstable discs. Is my hyzer flip masking bad technique (off-axis-torque for example) or is the hyzer flip just a different approach? I throw most drivers about 325-335 consistently but I do reach up to 350 when I really rip one. I can reach 365 if I throw the high annie line. My hyzer-flip driver line is about 15 feet off the ground. I throw my midranges about 275 feet about 25 feet up. And I throw my putters about 235 about 25 feet up too. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

[Jake L]

Can any one explain why I have such good results with my putters and such bad results with my midrange and driver? Comments, suggestions and questions are welcome. Thanks in advance.



your putter will hide technique problems better than a mid, and alot better than a driver. Get good at hitting (within 20 feet) your intended target with a putter. Then the rest will come easy!

[discgolfreview]

cdale:

from the sound of it, your technique is probably fine. i really prefer the hyzer flip line as i believe it gets you the most D for the least effort, as well as it seems to finish most consistently (will still come back at the end). it also does open the door to finessing discs.

with a hyzer flip line, it shouldn't mask technique issues really, and it actually is a little more touchy in terms of your forward momentum and weight shifts. is there any advantage to throwing flat? maybe with a tail wind, or when you want the disc to behave differently than you can achieve throwing your hyzer flip. i do, however, always recommend learning every type of shot there is, and being able to throw both hyzer flips and flat (even if it requires a more overstable disc) are parts of the quest for a "complete game."

my only real thoughts on it are that you may want ot work on being able to get similar D (to what you are already getting) with your midrange/putters around ~15' high. a few courses i play have ~50% tunnel shots with low ceilings, and i often like to play par golf, punching 280' roc drives straight out, even on the 400' holes. it's more of a preference thing, but would probably shave some strokes in the long run if you were able to use less height for the same D (or in turn, same height for more D).

as for your line about "throwing a putter past 100'", what putter are you using? also, is this because you turn the putter over or because you overthrow it if you don't?

[Cdale600]

Thanks for the insight. I use Omega SS's, though I also have a couple of Aviars. The difficulty in getting past 100' without releasing with hyzer is definitely from flipping them so they hit the ground on an annie line real early. With the hyzer flip they straighten up, work right a touch then come back left to get the full 230' or so. Its a real slow glidey flight path that doesn't deviate from straight much at all. For that reason on my home course which is pretty short and tight I have been driving with them on a bunch of the holes, just because I get the least fade out at the end, even compared to my rocs.

[discgolfreview]

ah, i seem to forget sometimes that not everyone throws wizards. i throw either air bounces or hyzers from 150' and in or i have a tendency to overthrow (i throw wizards ~220' without taking a step). the main thing is that you have the confidence to push them out to a good range as many people do not.

[vwkeepontruckin]

DG3:

Now don't take this in a weird, product pushing way, but check out a Gateway Illusion. They are very similar to a Beast in flight, and get crazy distance for all skill levels. I increased my driving distance, and at the same time, so did my sister whose only played a handful of rounds. Based on info you've provided, I'd say it would go for a while on a slight TO, then gently hyzer out. Very sweet. Email David@GDSTour.com for some more information!

NO NO NO even though I love gateway discs, throwing a disc this fast is the worst thing you can do for your game when starting out! Get a leopard.

[vwkeepontruckin]

Thats true, I wan't even thinking about that factor. With the speeds you probably reach, a Sabre would work best for you. As far as your first high speed driver (when ever that may be), check out an Illusion.

Good Call Grahm.

before people name too many small diameter high speed drivers, going back to the original post of 150', i generally don't recommend anything fast until D is more like 220-250' or more consistently.

to get there from where you are at now, here is a list of discs i'd recommend:
innova dx cobra
innova dx panther
innova dx shark
discraft elite x storm
discraft elite x stratus
discraft pro d ecclipse
millennium aurora ms

chances are you'll "outgrow" these discs in not too long. as for good "first drivers" when you are in the low-mid 200's,

innova dx cheetah
innova dx raven
innova dx leopard
innova dx gazelle
innova dx ace
discraft elite x xpress
discraft elite x xl
discraft elite x cyclone
gateway sabre g1i (strongly recommend)
millennium polaris ls

this list above i consider "tier 1 drivers"
discs like the orc and beast i would classify as "tier 3 drivers"
i always push for people to work their way up incrementally because moving up to discs that are too fast and overstable will often lead to anhyzer tendencies which will severely limit your disc selection later on down the road and require a lot of adjustments to counteract. you'll get the most D and accuracy from the discs that are meant to fly at or below the speed you throw. keep in mind that it's a process along the learning curve with a lot of plateaus.



By Far, this is one of the best posts for a beginner to read. I copy/pasted it to an email to my noob DGing friends.