Driving distance techniques

[cantrell]

I throw about 340' on average (drives) and have been playing for about 15 months. I want more distance so I've begun to try to add the power grip and the x-step to my drives. So far neither are producing any extra distance at all (after maybe 50 throws). Should I just stick with what works and wait for more distance or pursue these techniques, which all of the big guns use? :confused:

[circle_2]

'Any' change to your game will "F" things up for awhile...this you can count on!
Be smooth and controlled. Start with slower footwork to acquire good technique and fundamental muscle memory.
.02

[circle_2]

BTW Hyzer Soze, your screen name rocks! An excellent inside joke for us "Usual Suspects" fans...

[cantrell]

Thanks. I can't take credit though. A friend that I throw with (this guy throws 450' + forehand by the way, it's amazing) said it one day and I laughed for five minutes.
Control is difficult with the x-step so far but I did get some flat drives (I tend to throw high hyzers with the x-step) and they only went as far as my normal drives. For reference I'm rhbh and my normal approach is right shoulder facing the target then left foot forward (90 deg from target) then I shift my weight by stepping with my right foot towards the target and pull through with my hips and shoulders. The guys who throw with the x-step make it look easy. Anyway, there is an article by Dave Dunipace (sp?) at discgolfreview.com that says you should see more distance with each additional step added to your run-up, especially using the x-step (this is my take on it). I guess I will keep trying. It would help if I just got one x-step/power grip drive to go further than my normal drive so I have something to keep me going.

[circle_2]

The X-step is pretty good insurance that you will get your hips involved in your throwing mechanics. Again, start with slow steps to hone your fundamentals...

[discgolfreview]

Anyway, there is an article by Dave Dunipace (sp?) at discgolfreview.com that says you should see more distance with each additional step added to your run-up, especially using the x-step (this is my take on it).



one thing to outline about this:
the x-step (= 3 steps) ALWAYS yields more "potential" distance than throwing with 0, 1, or 2 steps.
depending upon how athletic your x-step is in terms of utilizing your hips and how quickly you can get them to move, most players will get more D with a couple of lead in steps as well (there will be other players who get less D).
there is almost always a "critical" number of steps, n, where:
steps = n = max D
steps > n = less than max D (out of control)
steps < n = less than max D (not enough hip utilization)

as for your problem with hyzers, im assuming you mean you pull sweep hyzers out to the right?
if yes, then chances are your timing is a bit off and the motions aren't firing in the right order or at the right times leading to less snap and a tendency to pull the disc.

as for my recommendations on this:
-know that you will be taking 1 step back in the short run for 2 steps forward in the long run.
-you will eventually get it and it will help you in the long run.
-you'll likely have better overall accuracy with your current 1-step technique even after you learn the x-step, fall back on that when accuracy is at a premium.
-writing about 3 quick steps can make it seem overly complicated, just focus on being smooth, light, and quick through the steps and it will probably fall into place.

hope this helps

[cantrell]

Thanks guys. I do feel like I'm forcing it. It doesn't yet feel natural. One last thing...should I go ahead and learn the power grip first with my current throwing style then once I've mastered that learn better footwork or does the order here not matter? It seems like if I'm going to learn to rip it harder with the x-step then I'd better learn a time-tested grip.

[Chris Hysell]

I drove 750 miles last weekend.

[cantrell]

Wow, that's a long hole.

[discgolfreview]

One last thing...should I go ahead and learn the power grip first with my current throwing style then once I've mastered that learn better footwork or does the order here not matter?



i would go x-step first, then worry about grip later unless your current grip is really poor/flawed but based on your earlier posts im guessing your grip works fine. x-step = guarenteed long run increase in D. grip modifications = maybe more maybe less D. go with the sure shot first.

my 7 cents

[cantrell]

Thanks for the advice Blake. I will work on my timing. Good article by the way.

[peter_h]

Hyser_Soze, yes, Blake always has good advice :) you can tell he's spent a lot of time analyzing the body mechanics in a throw.

Another related thing that could create the high hyzer you describe is your weight shift/body position at the pull. If you fail to get your weight transferred from the left leg to the forward plant leg after the x-step, you will most likely end up leaning slightly backwards. From there the only way your throw can go is up...

At http://area46.tip.nu I've written a couple of pages in the flying disc academy section concerning golf drives and the x-step run-up that could give you a hint or two. (You find the "In English" link just under Kicki's right hand on the front page.)

It has some pictures and short video clips that I hope might be useful. Start slow to get the feel for the x-step, and add speed as you're getting more comfortabe with the run-up. A bit of speed will also make the weight shift come natural since your body already has a good amount of forward momentum.
I wish you the best luck with your future +450ft drives!

[cantrell]

Peter,
Thanks for the tips. You are right, I can tell that I am off balance with my weight partially over my left leg when I throw wild when using the x-step. I will work on my timing. Great academy you have on you site. I already feel like I understand the technique better. Thanks again to all.

Peter ... excellent website. I've been noticing some inconsistencies with my throws lately and was looking for some answers; well I found them. After studying the text and videos and pictures about the cross step, I went out to find a soccer feild to throw some drives last night. Would you think I could find an empty soccer feild with little league soccer just starting .. no chance lol. So I found asmall park where I could only throw Aviars and Rocs, but I still got work on my cross step. The inconsistency I was having was that every so often my throw would go on a line way right (I throw RHBH) from where I was intending to throw. This was starting to bug me. What I found from breaking down my run up, was that I wasn't turning back far enough on those throws that went right. With your website help that's fixed now - thank you. Another thing I noticed was that I was bringing the disc back well before my right forward (last step), and starting to pull WHILE I was making that last step. I found that if I just held the pull for an extra second or two and tried not to pull until my foot was planted, the power in my throw felt like it was coming from body rotation, not arm speed (like I had before). Bottom line, my throws felt like they required a lot less effort and I was throwing the same distance - along with a cleaner, more consistent line. Now this was only with fan grip Roc and Aviar shots, so I'm really interested to see what happens with my drivers.

Thanks again !!!

Dustin

The whole grapevine/two step/mad dash stance dosen't work for me....... I agree it is harder to have more control with all of the hoppin....... Plus i can't concentrate on what i want from my disc!

I just stand a few feet from the end of the box, turn my body to the side of the hole, hold the disc with two hands (helps the brain reinstate LEVEL) and step out with one foot and twist my body around to launch. This lack of "hopscotch" improved my drive by 150 FT!!!!! Coming from a female you may reject the idea but when no one is looking in an open field just try it out. :cool:

[cantrell]

Peter and Blake,
I got off a couple of slow, flat x-step drives yesterday and got maybe an extra 30' on my drives. It's not much but I can see the potential for much longer distance. I threw with maybe 75% of the power I think I could generate and still only be throwing at around 80% full power. Thank you again for the really helpfull advice.

[discgolfreview]

hyzer:
am glad that you are starting to get the hang of it. once it becomes fluid you should see a tad more D. most changes of technique (even very large ones) after you have the basic form down lead to relatively small incremental increases in D. however, if yer sitting at 350' of golf D for several months and have the motivation, a tweak that will yield 10' of extra D is often desirable.

5 sec rule:

when no one is looking in an open field just try it out.


actually, i've done it with a lot of people looking and my friend video taping :D what works best for people will vary from person to person, but after some extensive field work and training others, the x-step generally can increase the distance potential (although not actual execution) by 20-40% for most players who can throw 250-300' without taking a step. it will also increase the degrees of "spray", but by a relatively small margin in the long run compared to say, a 360 turnaround which will yield yet more D potential. i think it's the D potential that most players crave that push the uniform teaching of the x-step. however, i have played with many people who are better off without the added footwork because they already fully utilize their legs.

Not like i drive with a pink tutu or with a multi colored wing...... I just haven't seen many guys that just stand and throw....... most of the men are hoppin and skippin up the tee box and chunking the disc! :) maybe most of you guys like to make the throw a bit more dramatic..... ;) :D

[stevev]

Poison Ivy sucks. Just getting over my first case of the @*%$. If I throw it right, it usually is a good shot.

[cantrell]

Blake,
Yeah, I'll take what I can get. Threw some more x-step throws this weekend and threw most of them either into the ground or yanked them into high right hyzers. It helps for now to throw slightly down hill. The ones that did leave my hand flat and straight were, again, maybe 20-30' longer than my average. I just have a long way to go to get the timing of everything right. With my body moving so much I have a hard time releasing flat. Another big obsticle seems to be using my body more. I feel like, since I'm still forcing the x-step a little, I'm using my arm to accelerate the disc and not my legs, hips and shoulders. That will cost you D. It's all about timing (fluidity).

[coda_hatfield]

Try a 360. :D

[coda_hatfield]

That should add 50ft+ to your drive. :D

I tried the x step and found that my discs (drivers or putters) flattened out because of the added power. It was almost hard for me to throw a regular right to left fade. If I kept my x step real light like a dance step then pushed hard of my back leg the release was almost effortless and gave me much more power than my usual run up.
I do just one step to set up my x step to keep it simple and not confuse myself.

[cantrell]

What I mean is that when my timing is off I release the disk way too late and my arm is going down to up instead of flat so I release the disk in a high right hyzer that dies fast. I know what you mean though. When I get a good one out there I can turn my Beast over a little, which is otherwise rare for me to do.

[cantrell]

Whoops. Working on my computer too much today. Disc, not disk.

you should try my technique until you have a few flat drives first! then maybe throw in a grapevine step!!!! <---- i do that every now and then with my lighter discs....... :D

[circle_2]

Analyze your follow-through...many folks follow-through in a slight downward fashion, which helps to keep the nose down.
.02

[lowe]

...Anyway, there is an article by Dave Dunipace (sp?) at discgolfreview.com that says you should see more distance with each additional step added to your run-up, especially using the x-step (this is my take on it).



You can find more information about driving techniques at the thread called "Distance Secrets". In this thread Dave Dunipace and Blake T. share many useful ideas. To go there just click here. (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Technique&Number=69738&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=)

Dave D's Distance ideas are summarized in the article you read which can also be found by joining my MSN Group "Disc Golf Resources". Go to Disc Golf Resources (http://groups.msn.com/DiscGolfResources)

[sleepy]

im in wisconsin so i might have an advantage but play in winter bundle up and play all winter by next spring when you can shed the layers 25-50 feet of distance is added every spring

"Hand me the Beast you fuggin' cocksucka"