What techniques/attitudes are essential, to success in Disc Golf?

If Tony Robbins answers this, I swear I'll sucker punch him...

In all seriousness, what I mean by this question, is ...

What are the constants to success in competition?
Anything besides pin-point driving, long putts, etc.
I know there are as many approaches to this sport as there are players, but what I'm asking is, what aspects do the top Pros have in common? Are there any? If so, what fundamentals are universal? I know some drive longer and more accurately than others, some can putt better and longer, but is that all there is to the difference between Ams and Pros? I've gotten GREAT advice from the local Pros here in NM, my being fortunate enough to play with 3 of our state's top 5 on a regular basis ( one is my best friend ).From my point-of-view, I think they've all got that intangible. What I feel they have in common is good karma,good shot/disc selection,poise, great practice ethic,creativity, killer instinct, guts and talent. But I haven't seen enough of the Tour yet to compare these appraoches to other Pros. Are these the common denominators???
I've recently received my PDGA number and am going to start making the rounds of Tourneys, but what should I look for when trying to examine players styles and techniques? Should I even bother yet? I won't just be attending them to try and win. I want to learn this game. I always learned team-oriented sports and would like to find out what kind of a mind-set is needed to excel in an individual sport. I LOVE THIS SPORT! I'M ADDICTED!!! TOTALLY!!!
This may be too direct for some, but I'm trying to get serious about this sport. I've been told I have a natural talent for this game but I don't want to hit a plateau and then have that be all! I've been playing less than a year and can already throw past 400', and it makes me feel like a player when people who've been playing for years ask ME questions about what certain discs do, how do I like this disc, etc. And I KNOW that I'll be receiving the good ol' "SANDBAGGER!!!" treatment, although hopefully not for long. Because it is NOT only the distance that makes a good player, right? I was recently complemented on throwing just about every basic type of shot there is to be thrown and it NEVER EVEN OCCURED TO ME to make a point of doing so. That made me feel confident, but I don't fool myself.I know my abilities AND my limitations, so,there you have it.

These are the kinds of questions I'm to shy to ask the local Pros face-to-face, although I think they'd be honest.
ANY answers are GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!

Let me know if I ramble too much.

While I'm still trying to determine whether or not you are answering your own question (which I believe you did) I will tell you a few things the top guns in the area have told me. Some of which I will steal from your list:

1. You need to have fun, if you're out there and your being a negative nancy (unless it's negative par) you're having an effect on your game and thoes around you. It is my opinion that noone likes people who constantly complain about their shots or throw hissy fits over a missed 25 footer. If you're not having fun, pretend like you are. So the other people around you can play without having to hear about why the wind makes you suck.

2. Play the course, not your opponents. When you play a tournament, yes, you are playing the other 60 people in your division, but you are also playing against the elements, and the obstacles. You are trying to beat the course. The moment you start worrying about others scores, you put pressure on yourself to perform and some people can't handle pressure properly. Great man once gave me this tip.

3. Approach all approches with a positive mind-set. As I become more competitive, I've noticed people I play against walk up to their approach shots with negative thoughts. Yes, we would all like our approaches to be under the basket, or go in, but disc golf doesn't always work like that. Sometimes you have to make a 25 footer and you shouldn't have to. But 100% of the competitve disc golfers are capable of making a 25 footer. When you go up there thinking your approach shot was horrible, you're setting yourself up to miss the putt.

4. Don't be afraid to try new things. Practice is essential when experimenting. Although you may think your a bad-[*****] while you attempt a crazy shot you know you can't execute in a tourney, you really look like an idiot. If you're not sure, odds are it won't work. Know your plastic! Be smart, and assertive. But never be afraid of poor results on a shot you know you can make. Consider your options! What line has the least margin for error from your current lie? How will the conditions affect your shot? So fourth. Take your time and consider these options, but don't dilly dally. Make up your mind and execute.

5. Be a good sport. You can't win them all. Especially in disc golf. There will be days you have it, and days when you can't believe you once had it. Patience! As you grow as a disc golfer, the bad days will deteriorate. Making up excuses doesn't change the fact you lost, or justify it. Remember, it's just a game. Learn from thoes with experience. Spend time with them at the course, ask questions. You'd be surprised how much help you can get from a fellow disc golfer. I'm sure your local pros would love to show-off a bit for you, as well as teach you a few things (same thing to me). I think most people actually enjoy teaching others about disc golf because it allows them to show off their knowledge of the game.

Few sidenotes.
Challenge yourself. Don't be afraid to play people better than you, you may loose but trust me, you will learn alot by getting your [*****]-whopped. You may even be surprised with the final score. I think alot of new players believe advanced players have perfect shots everytime and never "mess up". Anyways, when you do start to win, don't rub it in. Noone wants to play with or against an [*****]-hole, even if the said [*****]-hole happens to be a good disc golfer.

Distance isn't everything. Odds are you are not going to encounter many 600' holes that are entierly wide open. A touring pro (possibly Climo?) said, "If you can throw 400', you can hang with the big boys." or something along thoes lines... So anyways, the majority of holes house something called fairways, out-of-bounds, and protected pin placements. Control is KEY. Distance is flashy, but distance alone won't win championships. If you can't putt, don't play. Or play and let me take your money :) It's the short game that matters most. The best disc golfers you will see, are solid in every single aspect of the game (doh) You can't deuce if you can't drive, you can't approach if you lack control, and you can't putt if you don't practice.

Can't think of any more of the top of my head. I'm sure some of the forum pros can fill in the areas I missed ;)

[vwkeepontruckin]

While I'm still trying to determine whether or not you are answering your own question (which I believe you did) I will tell you a few things the top guns in the area have told me. Some of which I will steal from your list:

1. You need to have fun, if you're out there and your being a negative nancy (unless it's negative par) you're having an effect on your game and thoes around you. It is my opinion that noone likes people who constantly complain about their shots or throw hissy fits over a missed 25 footer. If you're not having fun, pretend like you are. So the other people around you can play without having to hear about why the wind makes you suck.

2. Play the course, not your opponents. When you play a tournament, yes, you are playing the other 60 people in your division, but you are also playing against the elements, and the obstacles. You are trying to beat the course. The moment you start worrying about others scores, you put pressure on yourself to perform and some people can't handle pressure properly. Great man once gave me this tip.

3. Approach all approches with a positive mind-set. As I become more competitive, I've noticed people I play against walk up to their approach shots with negative thoughts. Yes, we would all like our approaches to be under the basket, or go in, but disc golf doesn't always work like that. Sometimes you have to make a 25 footer and you shouldn't have to. But 100% of the competitve disc golfers are capable of making a 25 footer. When you go up there thinking your approach shot was horrible, you're setting yourself up to miss the putt.

4. Don't be afraid to try new things. Practice is essential when experimenting. Although you may think your a bad-[*****] while you attempt a crazy shot you know you can't execute in a tourney, you really look like an idiot. If you're not sure, odds are it won't work. Know your plastic! Be smart, and assertive. But never be afraid of poor results on a shot you know you can make. Consider your options! What line has the least margin for error from your current lie? How will the conditions affect your shot? So fourth. Take your time and consider these options, but don't dilly dally. Make up your mind and execute.

5. Be a good sport. You can't win them all. Especially in disc golf. There will be days you have it, and days when you can't believe you once had it. Patience! As you grow as a disc golfer, the bad days will deteriorate. Making up excuses doesn't change the fact you lost, or justify it. Remember, it's just a game. Learn from thoes with experience. Spend time with them at the course, ask questions. You'd be surprised how much help you can get from a fellow disc golfer. I'm sure your local pros would love to show-off a bit for you, as well as teach you a few things (same thing to me). I think most people actually enjoy teaching others about disc golf because it allows them to show off their knowledge of the game.

Few sidenotes.
Challenge yourself. Don't be afraid to play people better than you, you may loose but trust me, you will learn alot by getting your [*****]-whopped. You may even be surprised with the final score. I think alot of new players believe advanced players have perfect shots everytime and never "mess up". Anyways, when you do start to win, don't rub it in. Noone wants to play with or against an [*****]-hole, even if the said [*****]-hole happens to be a good disc golfer.

Distance isn't everything. Odds are you are not going to encounter many 600' holes that are entierly wide open. A touring pro (possibly Climo?) said, "If you can throw 400', you can hang with the big boys." or something along thoes lines... So anyways, the majority of holes house something called fairways, out-of-bounds, and protected pin placements. Control is KEY. Distance is flashy, but distance alone won't win championships. If you can't putt, don't play. Or play and let me take your money :) It's the short game that matters most. The best disc golfers you will see, are solid in every single aspect of the game (doh) You can't deuce if you can't drive, you can't approach if you lack control, and you can't putt if you don't practice.

Can't think of any more of the top of my head. I'm sure some of the forum pros can fill in the areas I missed ;)



First off, nice Icon! :D;) :D
Second, I found your post very informative, great "jorb"
(ALA Homestarrunner.com)

Ahhh I love homestar

[dannyreeves]

1. Play with people better than you. Not just in casual rounds either. Move up a division in your weekly/monthly leagues.

2. Don't throw a lot of different molds. Climo said on the 03 World's DVD that he throws 3 discs: Aviar, Roc, Teebird. He just has each mold in many different conditions.

3. Whatever 4 or 5 discs you choose to throw, get about 10 of each and take them to the field. Learn to make every single disc do the same thing.

4. Play worst shot doubles with yourself at least 1 time every 2 weeks. Throw 2 shots and take the worst. Do this on every shot until you can make both putts. Keep track of you scores and try to improve on this. If you can shoot within 6 or 7 strokes of your regular scores, you are getting really consistant.

5. Force yourself to throw the shot that the hole is calling for. For example, if you have a tight 250' hole that turns slightly right, don't throw the thumber! :D It is okay to play the easy shots when it is in a tournament, but there are many holes out there that you cannot throw the easy shots, so make yourself learn all shots. It will pay off in the long run.

6. Every once in a while, play a round or 2 with only a Roc. Drivers will sometimes correct your technique mistakes. Rocs don't. Rocs show every flaw that you have. They are brutally honest. If you don't put a lot of spin on them, they will flutter and turn over. You can also do this with a putter. Keep your game in check.

6. In the field, practice the shot that you are worst at. Try to get your hyzers, flat shots, anhyzers, rollers all to the same level. Improve your weakest skills. Also, learn a sidearm and some kind of overhand shot. They don't have to be awesome, just good for getting out of trouble at least.

I recently played a tournament, and I took a bogey on the first hole, which was a straight 200' with no obsticles or wind. I had to laugh it off and change my mindset, and I ended up finishing in a 6 under. If this happens to you, don't let it effect you. If your making your drive, and your thinking about how you shanked your last one, guess what...your gonna shank it again! You need to keep going and think of your next shot, not your past shots.


Also, if you go to www.innovadiscs.com (http://www.innovadiscs.com) and check out the team members, they give tips on tournament play and other aspects of the game. Its worth a look. Also, go to www.scottstokely.com (http://www.scottstokely.com) and check out the "Ask Scott" section. Good stuff. AND PLAY SOME GOLF!!!! sheesh.

As usual, Kid Roc has made some very valid and useful points. I thank him for his input (even though I didn't start the thread)

I especially like the idea of playing "worst-shot" with yourself (sounds creepy). Seems like it would be a good way to improve ones consistancy

[dannyreeves]

Worst shot rounds are fun. Actually, you have the potential to shoot the same score as you normally do in singles. This format just forces you to do everything good twice while severely punishing you for everything bad.

Scary would be playing a 8000'+ course with 2 Rocs, WORST SHOT!!! Done it and I still have nightmares. :D

First off, I would like to thank each of you for the responses! I really appreciate any and ALL advice I've ever received in my career thus far. I'm so reaction oriented due to team sports,etc.,that the solo, cerebral approach is something foreign to me. I'm normally a pretty confident person, yet when it comes to serious questions about things like mental approaches, I do shy away. I'm weird, that way. The local pros here are VERY friendly, but I'm still leary about asking them for straight out advice! I've always been taught to make things automatic, so when the need arises, you don't even have to think about it. Know what I mean? Pavlovian, really! So approaching someone, whom to me is a professional at Disc Golf, no matter if the round is casual, doubles, Mini, or Sanctioned event,is kind of intimidating. To me, professionalism means far more than just winning tourneys, or being paid to do a certain job. It's the conduct OFF the course that's just as important as how well you play. Yes, a person can learn alot from watching, but if you don't know what yer lookin' at, it'll be confusing. I feel I'm sorta on the right track,at least as far as recognizing the talent I'm seeing (which isn't hard!) and am really looking forward to playing more Tourneys and learning all I can, and possibly seeing and meeting some of you fellas. Again, I understand my limitations fully, and know that I have a long way to go. But the right kind of advice, not just hearing," yer not swiveling yer hips!" like I used to hear in baseball/hockey, etc, is FAR more meaningful to me than just winning. I'd just like to be a good golfer! I've had so much enjoyment just from throwing that bit of plastic, ya know? It NEVER goes away, that feeling, not even during the bad rounds. The big Smurf in the sky knows that there's been quite a few of THOSE! :D

[gnduke]

Attitude is first.

Have fun, remember the good shots, forget the poor executions.
Don't forget the poor shot selections.

Play the course not the players (i.e. if you drop 2 strokes to the leaders on your card on the first three holes, don't worry about it. They will probably drop a couple of strokes somewhere to you in the next 15 holes.)

Don't force mistakes. If you have a 15% chance of a birdie with a perfect shot, but the perfect shot you have to make has a 40% chance of leaving you with a bogie if it isn't perfect, play for a safe par instead of a risky birdie.

That does not mean play everything too safe, once you stop being aggressive, you start to pick up bogies of your own making. Know your own game and play within your own limits.

Practice, practice, practice.

[boru]

Ok, there's a lot of great advice here from people much more qualified to give it than I am. But since I'm a pretty good observer and teacher, here are a few things I think are useful:

- Good putting is essential, and not just for the obvious reason. When you're putting well, you take pressure off your approach shots. Instead of having to park them right under the pin, you can land 25' out and feel fine. This has a calming effect that actually makes your approaches easier and better. And that takes pressure off your drives . . .

- Putting is all about confidence. When I'm putting well, I notice that my form is actually different from what I think it's going to be. My mind says one thing, my body delivers the disc to the basket the way it wants to.

- Whenever possible, don't lay up. I take almost every shot within 150' with the goal of putting the disc in the basket. This goes against the conventional wisdom of course management and smart play, but guess what: You learn to go for it and still be close to the basket if you miss. Learning to throw your putter long will make this a lot easier.

- Which brings me to my next point: Focus on your weaknesses. As recently as a couple months ago, my backhand sucked. So I took the advice of people on this board and started leaving my drivers at home for casual rounds. That took my forehand drive out of the picture and forced me to improve my backhand. It was a great plan until I figured out I could throw a mean forehand with my Buzzz. I tried to be disciplined, but the temptation to fall back on the forehand was just too much. So I started bringing only my putters, and after a couple of painful weeks, my backhand had gotten a lot better. I can now throw my Wasp a consistent 250 on a low, straight line drive, and I feel myself improving almost every round.

- Finally, for a great look at what separates the best golfers from the rest of us, read Golf is not a Game of Perfect, by Dr. Tom Rotella. It breaks down the mental aspect of ball golf, and the lessons are very easy to transfer to disc golf.

- Scott Stokely's book is also worth reading.

Hope that helps.

[Blarg]

diron:

Even more encouraging, the number Climo mentioned was 350.'
He said: "If you can throw 350,' you can hang with the pros."
:)

[dannyreeves]

This is true. Of course, it will be more difficult.

[Blarg]

Re: Kid Roc:

?

:confused:

[dannyreeves]

That was in reference to only having to throw 350' to compete. It is possible but you had better have great short game.

[Jake L]

I think Duvall said if you can throw 350 with control, you will do well at the USDGC!

Control is the key!

[Sharky]

I'm a big Dr Bob Rotella fan too. All his books are excellent and the Putting Out of Your Mind audio cassete is a must!

Check out his stuff on Amazon.
Dr Bob quote:

In putting, the challenge is to make a free stroke to a specific target. Guiding, steering, or being too careful with a putting stroke are faults bred by doubt.