Ethics

Recently at a tournament I was directing, several players complained about a couple of individuals who were essentially baiting them with rules violations. Specifically, these players were approaching other groups and asking if anyone had any herb or beer. They also asked to see other goups score cards.

These two were able to nab a rec player who was drinking but no one else fell for their trap. Personally, I felt this behavior was a detriment to the positive energy that was out there. Are there any other opinions on this?

Thanks!
-Dan

[gnduke]

I can't say that I agree with the behavior, but the 2 weren't breaking any rules, the ones with the stuff were.

To fall into the realm of entrapment, wouldn't the 2 players have to go around offering herb and beer and then nabbing all those who accepted the offer ?

If the players had the objectionable substances on the course, then that was the real mistake, not admitting it to these self-appointed marshalls.

[exczar]

There was nothing "wrong" with these guys asking other people in the event for contraband, unless they were doing it in such a way that it would be a courtesy violation. I would like more info, though. Were these guys in the event? Was this during the event or between/before rounds?

If they were just wandering the course, and they are not Certified Officials, then, no, they should not have done it, with emphasis on "should". In this case, I would have scrutinized any allegation they would make.

Maybe they were just conducting a field trial to find stupid golfers, who knows. They found one! Did you ask them why they did it?

I think asking to see scorecards was stretching the envelope though, although you can ask anybody anything, and they can always say "NO", or other less polite negative phrases.

So, you were asking for opinions:

I can't comment on the "detriment to the positive feelings out there" issue. That sounds way too "New Age"-y for me to comment on. I think having a drug/alcohol free event would create "positive feelings", IMO.

Were these guys doing anything "wrong"? Probably not.

Were they being Richards? Probably.

my $0.02

[neonnoodle]

Bill,

Don't be stealing my gifs... :p

[mdgnome]

Technically,if you wanted to be a Richard,you could almost stroke them for a courtesy violation for being a distraction to other groups! :mad:
Also, if these people are asking others for theses things,couldn't you say that they were making an attempt to violate PDGA rules? :eek:
Just depends on what side of the line you fall on IMNSHO! :D

[rhett]

hmmmmmmmmmm......

"Got any dope?"
"Yeah, sure. Let's go smoke!"
"Yer outta here!!!!!!!"


Beware long-haired TDs asking straight-forward questions.

[exczar]

Beware long-haired TDs asking straight-forward questions.



Why did that make me think of Bryan James??... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Pizza God]

I resemble that remark :D

[exczar]

BRYAN!

Hey, I spelled your name right and everything! Aren't you impressed?

Hey, I smell something burning, you better check on the pizza oven...

ps Just found out that I have a conflict with the Athens event, oh well. You know of any other "big" events (B tier or higher or Tx 10) coming up around here?

[tdwriter]

Even though I don't drink or partake during tournaments, I would not talk about such things with people I don't know, especially about something illegal. I hope this is an isolated incident. If anyone comes up to me that I don't know and starts asking questions about things that aren't their business, I'll tell them to take a hike, even though I have nothing to worry about.

You shouldn't have prohibited items with you during the event, but nobody likes a narc :( rwc3523 :cool:

[exczar]

That's what I was saying. Anybody with gas in the intellegence tank would do that same thing as you.

[rhett]

I think the morons that would, uh, "pipe up" so to speak, have a very good chance of being the same clueless dumb-ffffs that I have seen light up with their feet in the sand of freaking playground filled with little kids while they are "officiating" at a PDGA A-tier. (Happened a couple of years ago.)

I say bust them all and kick their butts out of the scene. We don't need that kind of crap, regardless of your feelings about "narcs". :( Think about the good of the **** sport.

[discgeoff]

I'm confused about the asking to look at other groups score cards. Is this a rule infraction? Under what subtitle is listed?

Thanks.

[exczar]

Who said that asking to see others scorecards was a rules infraction? Rhett? Nick?

I think the poster was just asking if doing so ruined the "positive" whatevers that the event was producing.

If someone was asking for to see a scorecard in a way that was interfering with another player, a courtesy violation could be issued, but that is about it.

Hey, it's a free country (USA, at least), ask away, but be courteous about it and don't get mad if someone says that they would rather not.

[tdwriter]

I can't think of a situation why I would want to look at another group's scorecard or why someone would want to look at my group's card. I guess situations could arise, but I can't post one now becuase I have to get back to work. :D rWc3523 :cool:

I can't think of a situation why I would want to look at another group's scorecard or why someone would want to look at my group's card. I guess situations could arise, but I can't post one now becuase I have to get back to work. :D rWc3523 :cool:



How about this. I am in the group behind yours, but was one stroke behind you after the first round. I'd like to see if you are still ahead of me or not, by how much, etc. Do I have a right to know where I stand? I would think yes.

I think that if someone asked me to see my scorecard I would probably smile nicely and indicate using a very familiar hand signal that I'm 1 over. :D

[atreau3]

Hey guys...
Do you guys work in the same place, always post after one another!

Erick

No, I just like arguing with Dan.

[exczar]

I don't think that you have a "right", since you are not in that group, but you can certainly ask, since you are definitely an interested party.

[boru]

. . . these players were approaching other groups and asking if anyone had any herb or beer.



Seems like those two were soliciting illegal behavior from other players, and should be penalized for it.

[Moderator005]

Hey guys...
Do you guys work in the same place, always post after one another!

Erick



And their wives are sisters, right?

I don't think that you have a "right", since you are not in that group, but you can certainly ask, since you are definitely an interested party.



Agreed....you can ASK, but the card does not HAVE to be shown to anyone.

[exczar]

. . . these players were approaching other groups and asking if anyone had any herb or beer.



Seems like those two were soliciting illegal behavior from other players, and should be penalized for it.



I disagree. Again, should they have done it? I wouldn't have. Would I give them some grief about doing it? Yeah. Would I take it any further. Nah.

[boru]

I disagree. Again, should they have done it? I wouldn't have. Would I give them some grief about doing it? Yeah. Would I take it any further. Nah.



Well, do you penalize people who go around asking other players for beer/weed who are actually looking for it? Because if so, you have to extend the punishment to self-appointed vigilantes.

It would also be possible to take a similar approach to cheating. Let's say someone in my group's shot lands just a little OB. I say, "Don't worry about it, you can count it as in." So the person writes it down that way, and I tell on them. Bang. Cheater nailed.

To me, this fosters a culture of dishonesty that should have no place in disc golf. So they bust a rec player with some beer . . . drinking it discretely enough, I might add, that they couldn't see it without asking him for some. When the guy goes home, his friends ask him how the tournament was, and he says "Well, I got kicked out before it started, and I lost the money I paid to play." One of this sport's biggest selling points is how much fun it is, so I don't think it helps our cause to become known as a bunch of backstabbing narcs.

[chainedturtle]

beer and weed (while I have no problem with) should not be on the course during tournaments. between rounds is cool, while playing is not. I don't usually care if someone partakes during, but I would rather them not. Kinda like smoking cigs.

Asking for another scorecard is not right imo. it might mess witht he group you are asking from. it would be nice to know how you stand, but we won't get that until we get large signs like ball golf.

imo, those guys walking around were trying to be and succeeded at being jacka**es.

The same two also turned someone from the group in front of them in for excessive time - he was 2 minutes late to the tee. His group didn't mention it or have a problem with it, no one had taken their second throw. However, the guy was 2 minutes late and thus had to take a 7 on a par 3. Killed his entire weekend.

It's a tough line. Rules and enforcement are necessary for PDGA tournaments - however, to some degree they contradict the spirit of disc golf.

Not that it makes any technical difference, but this tournament was a fundraiser for cancer research.

peace.
-dan

[neonnoodle]

It's a tough line. Rules and enforcement are necessary for PDGA tournaments - however, to some degree they contradict the spirit of disc golf.



No they don't. Rules don't contradict the spirit of disc golf; they preserve and protect it from ignorant or dishonest folk that would undermine the spirit of disc golf. But only so far as the willingness of the players is to know them, follow them, and enforce them.

Though going around and asking if competitors have illegal substances during rounds seems extreme, it is probably not more offensive to the preservation of fair play or the integrity of our game, than is the practice of "thinking you're a nice guy because you don't Know, Follow or Call our Rules of Play".

[james_mccaine]

If it hasn't been said already, I would use 801.01B to stroke the vigilantes. People should mind their own business and not go out of their way to play disc golf cop. I find that behavior far worse than most of the infractions they could uncover. Anyway, someone from another group comes wanting to see our card would be told to go away and see it after it is turned into the TD. That's freaking anal !!!

[seewhere]

sounds like these 2 needed a GOOD *** KICKIIN

[rhett]

The same two also turned someone from the group in front of them in for excessive time - he was 2 minutes late to the tee. His group didn't mention it or have a problem with it, no one had taken their second throw. However, the guy was 2 minutes late and thus had to take a 7 on a par 3. Killed his entire weekend.

I always find it strange that when someone inconveniences an entire tournament worth of people that arrived on time by being late, that the late person is somehow the victim. Huh. I don't get it. I know that stuff happens, but everybody else got there on time. No reason to hate the late person, but no reason for the late person to get all irate. Just take yer strokes and show up on time next time.

I really don't get how using the extremely clear rule appropriately is "being a Richard" or "ruining the late guy's weekend." He knew he didn't leave on time to get there on time, and he paid the price. We all need to grow up and take some responsibility for our own actions.



It's a tough line. Rules and enforcement are necessary for PDGA tournaments - however, to some degree they contradict the spirit of disc golf.

This is so wrong it's not even funny. Unfortunately that statement sums up the problem with the current "culture" of disc golf.

Formal competition (PDGA tourneys, that is) demands formal guidelines to level the playing field for all. You know what you are getting into and you prepare accordingly. I don't understand why so many people want to make our formal competitions the same a casual round. Play casual if that's what you like. But a lot of people like to put it on the line in real competition to see where they stack up. That's not a casual round.

[exczar]

Well said, Nick, well said.











(for once) :D

[neonnoodle]

Yeah, I'm pleased with the succinctness of it. Good to see Rhett comes out in the same general place.

I never claimed to be a “good” writer… :p

[exczar]

If it hasn't been said already, I would use 801.01B to stroke the vigilantes.{snip}



"B. Players should take care not to produce any distracting noises or any potential visual distractions for other players who are throwing. Examples of discourteous actions are: shouting, cursing, freestyling, slapping course equipment, throwing out of turn, throwing or kicking golf bags, and advancing on the fairway beyond the away player. Shouting at an appropriate time to warn someone in danger of being struck by a disc is not a violation of courtesy."

James,

It hasn't been said already because this rule isn't applicable to the situation, because unless these vigilantes (please don't anyone call them zealots :D) started engaging them in conversation about contraband as they were in the process of throwing, then this rule would not come into play.

This would be the only rule that I think could even be considered applicable in any way:

"RULE: 804.05 DISQUALIFICATION & SUSPENSION
A. A player may be disqualified by the director for meeting any of the necessary conditions of disqualification as set forth in the rules, or for any of the following:
(1) Unsportsmanlike conduct, such as; loud cursing, throwing things in anger (other than discs in play), or overt rudeness to anyone present.


I would not considering going up to anyone and casually asking them if they had any weed or beer to be overtly rude, IMO. Now, if they shouted to the group that they know that this guy usually packs weed, and if they let him get away with partaking during the round, that they would be just as guilty as him, that may be considered overtly rude by some.

You know, before we go much farther with this, I wish we had more info:


Did this take place during the round?
What is the status of the vigilantes? Were they playing at the same time? Were they participants, but their round was over or had yet to start?
I mean, who were these guys anyway?

[james_mccaine]

Yes, your rule was more on point than mine. :) But if memory serves me correctly, the rule I quoted did say something in reference to distractions like "examples are ..."

I just see those as examples, not the entire universe of "distractions." People coming up to you asking for weed and beer, wanting to see your card is "distracting" to me and if someone else will second it, I'm stroking them. It may well get overruled later, but it might stop their "crusade" which does violate the spirit of sportsmanship in my mind at least.

DQs have to be by the TD, but discourteous strokes can be "awarded" by the players.

[neonnoodle]

Courtesy rules do not need to be seconded. But if they are found by the TD to be unwarranted you could and probably should be penalized or DQed.

Those examples clearly point towards "distracting" as in sudden movement or noise when a player is throwing, not towards saying something that "annoys" you.

[exczar]

Nick beat me to it with his post after I originally posted this. Well, Nick, at least I took the time to say why he could be DQ'd /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

James,

True, the rule you quoted does give examples, without limiting the infractions to those, but again, as I read the rules, you can only be discourteous to another player when that player is throwing. At the very least, I would think that the player would have to be on the tee box with disc in hand before that player would be considered "throwing"

I very well may be wrong, but except for the actions listed in other section of Rule 801.01, a player would have to be "throwing" in order to give another player a penalty throw.

And I know that you were giving out a hypothetical, but to say "I'm warning/stroking you" in order to shut them up, without being able to quote a specific rule, could be considered a violation of Rule 804.05 A (3):

"Cheating: a willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play."

I know that that would not be your intent,and I know where you are coming from, but I don't think that it would be a good strategy to invoke a penalty without a rule to cite.

Great feedback, thanks everyone.

The point referring to the excessive time (2min) is a good one. The person was in error and did receive the 4 stroke penalty.

A lot of negativity could be diverted with improved rule education. We currently hold free clinics (thanks Dave, Avery & Cameron) at each tournament and are toying with hosting a free rules clinic. Has anyone had any experience with this? Is there a set of common questions to answer out there? I think keeping it simple would be key.

peace.
-dan

[neonnoodle]

Dan,

Resource: Have you checked out the "RULES" link here completely yet?

Those sound like terrific ideas. Keep us posted on how they go.

[grolly420]

What 2 pieces of crap. In the U.S. if you walk up to a cop asking him/her for dope etc, they would bust your [*****] with intent to buy a forbiden substance. if you kicked the one out, you should have kicked the other 2 guys out also. Why did he get the boot? Because he had weed/beer, or because he was using it?

[august]

Ya know Rhett, I think it's a product of the culture and times we live in. There is an entire generation out there that seems to have been taught that nothing is their fault. Someone gets drunk and has an auto accident that kills someone. They end up suing the brewing or distilling company for producing the alcoholic beverage. They also sue the highway department for poor road design. There was a case here in Virginia where a kid huffed some computer screen cleaner, then drove off the road and killed himself. His parents sued K-Mart for selling him the screen cleaner. And I'll bet there's an attorney out there who would talk some greiving parent into suing the public water utility because they provided the water that was in their backyard pool when their child drowned. And people are suing firearms manufacturers when Joe Criminal shoots them during a robbery.

Folks who have been taught that nothing is their fault will have a hard time figuring out the concept of ethics.

[neonnoodle]

Mike, interesting observations. Where is your role in all of this? What can we do?

[Plankeye]

i got called a jack******* for trying to enforce the rules this weekend.

[august]

That sucks Plank! Hope you handed out a courtesy warning for that!

Nick, curious questions. Why do you ask?

[august]

Perhaps it wasn't obvious that I was commenting in support of what Rhett said about the late person who complains about being penalized for being late. My view is that this is a consequence of a generation that has 1) been taught that nothing is their fault and 2) that they shouldn't be held accountable for any mistakes they make.

[neonnoodle]

Perhaps it wasn't obvious that I was commenting in support of what Rhett said about the late person who complains about being penalized for being late. My view is that this is a consequence of a generation that has 1) been taught that nothing is their fault and 2) that they shouldn't be held accountable for any mistakes they make.



Yes, I understand that, what do you intend to do about it though? What is your role in all of it? Observer, Participant, Facilitator, Protestor, Activist?

I'm not accusing, it just seemed to be the next logical question...

In this instance the player was an Adv Master - and for the record, he didn't complain.

[cormack]

I understand the reason for and respect the rules during tourneys (including the no beer, even though I really enjoy having a couple while playing). But if the kind of behavior displayed by the 2 vigilanties (for lack of a better term) gets common, I won't play tournies precisely because of what an earlier poster called a "culture of mistrust." I wouldn't go so far as to say that those two need their backsides kicked, but I don't think they are the kind of guys I would like to play disc with...

[gnduke]

I would like to respond to one point that was not brought out after it was posted.


It would also be possible to take a similar approach to cheating. Let's say someone in my group's shot lands just a little OB. I say, "Don't worry about it, you can count it as in." So the person writes it down that way, and I tell on them. Bang. Cheater nailed.



Yes you could and should, if they actually tried to play the disc as safe. They should play it correctly, and bust you for trying to cheat for suggesting they ignore the rules. You are not playing against just the others on your card, but against the entire division, and to be fair to the entire division, the rules must be followed by everyone.

[neonnoodle]

Absolutely correct.

[boru]

It would also be possible to take a similar approach to cheating. Let's say someone in my group's shot lands just a little OB. I say, "Don't worry about it, you can count it as in." So the person writes it down that way, and I tell on them. Bang. Cheater nailed.



Yes you could and should, if they actually tried to play the disc as safe. They should play it correctly, and bust you for trying to cheat for suggesting they ignore the rules.



To me, you should either tell the person what you really think (or know to be true) or keep your mouth shut and let them play the shot. Once you tell them to go ahead and play it, you're just as guilty as they are. Thus, if you turn them in later, having misled them at the time of the shot, you should take the same punishment they get.

And really, I think you should always call a person on a rule before you turn them in to the TD or stroke them. So if you see their disc is out of bounds, and they're about to play it, tell them politely that they can't. Of course, if this person is constantly trying to play shots that land OB, you've got a serial cheater on your hands, and then it's time to go to the TD.

[boru]

. . . this is a consequence of a generation that has 1) been taught that nothing is their fault and 2) that they shouldn't be held accountable for any mistakes they make.



My guess is you're referring to the younger generation. Funny, who could have taught us these things?

[boru]

Courtesy rules do not need to be seconded. But if they are found by the TD to be unwarranted you could and probably should be penalized or DQed.



804.05 (4) Activities which are in violation of the law or park regulation or disc golf course rule, including the illegal consumption of drugs or alcohol.

Soliciting drugs from someone is (I think) illegal. Therefore, these two vigilantes should have been disqualified from the tournament based on rule 804.05 (4). Their intentions don't matter; the rules are very clear.

On a side note, I have nothing against the consumption of drugs and alcohol. In a perfect world, with no prohibition laws and no families near our courses, I would wholeheartedly endorse their use during tournaments. I don't partake when I play, and in my experience, drunk/stoned opponents are rarely at the top of their game! But since drinking/drug use is forbidden during PDGA events, I don't think it's asking too much of people to hold off while they're playing.

[neonnoodle]

804.05 (4) Activities which are in violation of the law or park regulation or disc golf course rule, including the illegal consumption of drugs or alcohol.

Soliciting drugs from someone is (I think) illegal. Therefore, these two vigilantes should have been disqualified from the tournament based on rule 804.05 (4). Their intentions don't matter; the rules are very clear.



Good point. But by that logic Police Officers are breaking the law by asking if people have drugs. While I do not agree with the practice of walking around and asking everyone if they have drugs or alcohol on them during PDGA rounds, if it is, and an affirmative arises, then it is, by rule, the responsibility of the players who discover it to report it to the TD. Then it is on the TD (or Marshall) to make the ruling. If the PDGA finds out that the TD knew and did nothing it is a 1 or 2 year suspension for them.

I too have very few issues with folks putting whatever they want into their own bodies, the choice is on them; but they should likewise respect our right to position our sport the way we feel best serves our greater goals and act accordingly, especially since it is only during a very limited specified time (between 2 minute warning and official end of the round or event).

It's called common respect and courtesy. Or "Being Cool". If you can not do this or choose not to, then your problem is beyond the scope of our rules to correct, but not beyond our rules to deal with.

[august]

Not guilty! I have no children.

[discgeoff]

Good point. But by that logic Police Officers are breaking the law by asking if people have drugs.



Is it not illegal for a Police Officer to ask you for drugs. It's entrapement. I think you would have to initiate the conversation of drugs with the PO.

[exczar]

Good point. But by that logic Police Officers are breaking the law by asking if people have drugs.



Is it not illegal for a Police Officer to ask you for drugs. It's entrapement. I think you would have to initiate the conversation of drugs with the PO.



Police? Aren't we straying a little bit here?

I thought the current subject was if the two vigilantes did anything that could be acted upon, assuming that what they did was ask somebody, in a manner that would not be a courtesy violation, if they possessed a certain substance or substances.

What police can or cannot do is subject to state, provincial and national laws and regs.

[neonnoodle]

I said they ask if "they have drugs". That is not entrapment, that is asking a question. You would be right if the PO asked if they had any for sale. The dealer could answer "No." and unless the PO had probable cause to search them there'd be nothing they could do beyond asking (if they asked they probably did already have probable).

This is quibbling I hope to never witness on the course.

[exczar]

This is quibbling I hope to never witness on the course.



TRUE DAT!

[rick_bays]

hmmmmmmmmmm......

"Got any dope?"
"Yeah, sure. Let's go smoke!"
"Yer outta here!!!!!!!"

Beware long-haired TDs asking straight-forward questions.



Hmmm.... our rules specifically mention the consumption of illegal substances, but say nothing about possession.

Although the rule does talk about things which are illegal in the park, and possession is illegal.

So, in the spirit of the rules - I'd probably DQ somebody for possession, too.

[quickdisc]

hmmmmmmmmmm......

"Got any dope?"
"Yeah, sure. Let's go smoke!"
"Yer outta here!!!!!!!"

Beware long-haired TDs asking straight-forward questions.



Hmmm.... our rules specifically mention the consumption of illegal substances, but say nothing about possession.

Although the rule does talk about things which are illegal in the park, and possession is illegal.

So, in the spirit of the rules - I'd probably DQ somebody for possession, too.


Is is possible for the TD to do a bag search at any time before, during or after the tournament ?

"Activities which are in violation of the law or park regulation or disc golf course rule, including the illegal consumption of drugs or alcohol"

I think possession would be a violaion of the law.

[quickdisc]

hmmmmmmmmmm......

"Got any dope?"
"Yeah, sure. Let's go smoke!"
"Yer outta here!!!!!!!"

Beware long-haired TDs asking straight-forward questions.



Hmmm.... our rules specifically mention the consumption of illegal substances, but say nothing about possession.

Although the rule does talk about things which are illegal in the park, and possession is illegal.

So, in the spirit of the rules - I'd probably DQ somebody for possession, too.


Is is possible for the TD to do a bag search at any time before, during or after the tournament ?


The reason I ask this is, I have heard of some nightmare stories of guys carring things for other people.

[exczar]

The reason I ask this is, I have heard of some nightmare stories of guys carring things for other people.



No problem, unless the TD can DQ somebody for stupidity... :D

[neonnoodle]

There is no reason for a TD to search players at an event. They are not police officers.

Asking questions and making the call based on our rules of play and their own judgment is adequate. If they want to go a step further, gather together a group of PDGA Officials and let them help in the review and decision.

No stun guns or mace necessary. ;)

[prairie_dawg]

There goes a TD perk. No more bag searches :D

Like we don't have enough to do already :cool:

[cbdiscpimp]

I myself would not goin around asking others if they had weed or beer during a sanctioned round. But if you are drinking or smoking dope during a round then its illegal. They should be punished accordingly. Its a really easy rule. NO GREY AREA. You dont smoke or drink during a sanctioned round. SIMPLE AS THAT. So id say sure it was kinda out of line to go around and ask everyone but it was even more out of line to have that and be using it on the course during a sanctioned event.

[exczar]

There goes a TD perk. No more bag searches :D

Like we don't have enough to do already :cool:



Don't tell Bryan James he can't. You'll never have him run an event again... :D

[quickdisc]

I myself would not goin around asking others if they had weed or beer during a sanctioned round. But if you are drinking or smoking dope during a round then its illegal. They should be punished accordingly. Its a really easy rule. NO GREY AREA. You dont smoke or drink during a sanctioned round. SIMPLE AS THAT. So id say sure it was kinda out of line to go around and ask everyone but it was even more out of line to have that and be using it on the course during a sanctioned event.


What if the TD condones usage ?

[rhett]

What if the TD condones usage ?



Then it shouldn't be PDGA sanctioned.

[exczar]

What if the TD condones usage ?



Then it shouldn't be PDGA sanctioned.



Then the TD conduct should be reported to the PDGA.

I have a question. I went to a NT event as a spectator recently, and before the final nine I heard one player come up and complain to the guy next to him that some guys wern't wearing collared shirts, and there were even some cut shirts. I was wearing a shirt with the sleeves cut off. I looked over to see if he was going to say something to me, and he was carrying a huggie with a can in it from which he was drinking. You couldn't see what it was, but you could smell the beer.

This guy wasn't in the final nine, but he did walk around watching it sipping from his beer. Isn't drinking as a PDGA member at a PDGA event a violation of the spirit, if not the letter, of the rules? I found it funny this guy thought collared shirts were more of a concern than his alcohol consumption.

[gnduke]

If it is allowed at the park, alcohol consumption after the round is specifically allowed by the player code of conduct.

Not meeting the dress code during the event is not allowed. A warning, then possible DQ and suspension is the penalty prescribed for failure to comply with the dress code.

Once a player is out of the competition, he/she is a spectator and can wear what they want.

He is right to complain if other players were allowed to play in less than appropriate attire, and he is allowed to enjoy an adult beverage if the park allows it after his round is over.

If it is allowed at the park, alcohol consumption after the round is specifically allowed by the player code of conduct.

Not meeting the dress code during the event is not allowed. A warning, then possible DQ and suspension is the penalty prescribed for failure to comply with the dress code.

Once a player is out of the competition, he/she is a spectator and can wear what they want.

He is right to complain if other players were allowed to play in less than appropriate attire, and he is allowed to enjoy an adult beverage if the park allows it after his round is over.



Maybe he was referring to actual players, but it seemed like he was indirectly referring to me and didn't realize I was a spectator. Thanks for clarifying our 'adult beverage' rules.

Personally, I would rather be around people lighting up than drinking, but feel both are a detriment to publicity and I do not partake of either.

Sounds like the players who were confronting other players were just not competitve enough to win on there own. They had to try to get others dqed or stokes added on. I havent played with anyone like this in this sport but in my opinion if i was the one to make the call I would have stroked the players with substance abuse violation and either hit the "narqs" with a stroke for everyone they approched or unsportman like conduct. In my oppinion they are cheating if they intentionaly go around trying to add strokes to others game. Do not get me wrong I give warnings and strokes if your going to intentionaly break the rules over and over to gain advantage. But to be honest i never once gave a stroke if a person honestly did not intend to break the rule ie. foot foul and such. We are out there for competion AND fun so make sure you have both.

[neonnoodle]

Do not get me wrong I give warnings and strokes if your going to intentionaly break the rules over and over to gain advantage. But to be honest i never once gave a stroke if a person honestly did not intend to break the rule ie. foot foul and such.



So do we have to now judge intent to break the rules before enforcing them?

"My local buddies would never purposefully break the rules, but this dang out of towner needs to be warned and stroked!"

I'm really not trying to pick on you, but if we have to be judges, psychologists and officials rather than just disc golfers, life is going to get pretty complicated out there.

Watching other players for adherence to our rules IS in our rules. It doesn't say that we should be "out to get our competitors", but knowing, following and yes calling our rules as we see them violated is our duty as competitors.

This should not be done to gain a competitive edge, but to protect our game from the ignorant, cheaters and unmindful. Again, knowing, following and calling our PDGA Rules of Play should be just another part of the game, along the lines of knowing what each of your discs does.

[exczar]

Well stated.