Interference

We had a question come up regarding interference at Hope last weekend.

A players putt bounced off the chains and rolled back past the player hitting his disc bag. The bag was well behind him and it was completely unintentional. However, it did cause him better position as the disc would have continued to roll for quite a ways.

I know in ball golf this is grounds for a one stroke penalty, however, we could not find anything in the disc golf rule book relating to incidental contact with your own equipment so we ruled it was not an infraction in disc golf.

What is the official position on this?

Thanks,
-Dan

[Moderator005]

803.06 INTERFERENCE
A. A thrown disc that hits another player, spectator, or animal shall be played where it comes to rest. A thrown disc that is intentionally deflected or was caught and moved shall be marked as close as possible to the point of contact, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. Players should not stand or leave their equipment where interference with the flight or path of a disc could easily occur. The away player may require other players to mark their lies or move their equipment before making a throw if the player believes that either could interfere with his or her throw.

B. If a disc at rest on the playing surface is moved, the disc shall be replaced as close as possible to its original location, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. If a marker disc is moved, the marker disc shall be replaced as close as possible to its original location, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. See also 803.07 C and D for movement of a disc above the playing surface.

C. Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves or obscures another player's thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other than by the action of a competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.

[Plankeye]

It was accidental, so no penalty.

That rule doesn't make sense in ball golf. Let's say that you are running for an ACE. Well more than likely the flag is in the hole. The ball hits the flag and bounces out. The flag interfered with the ball going in, but it isn't an additional stroke penalty.

[bapmaster]

Doesn't apply anyhow, the flag is part of the course.

803.06 INTERFERENCE
A. (-snip-) Players should not stand or leave their equipment where interference with the flight or path of a disc could easily occur.



If a disc hits the basket and is rolling toward your bag -- should you:

A. leave your bag there and let it stop or deflect the disc

B. act quickly to try and move your bag out of the way before interference occurs?

since the rule says you should not *leave" your bag where interference may occur, it sounds like the right thing to do is make your best effort to move your bag out of the way whether the disc about to hit it is your own, a friend's, or your least favorite person who is only beating you by one stroke :D

comments?

In this case he did attempt to move his bag, although his effort came into question.

[discgeoff]

I've been told several times that it results in a one stroke penalty, though never seen it happen. So I too read the rule book and there's no such rule, except for intentional interference which stands to reason.

[bruce_brakel]

This is such a ridiculous rule. Let's say I putt out under the flow rules from a foot away and you are five feet away. I'm still by the basket when you nonchalantly toss your birdie putt into the chains. I intentionally swat your disc to the ground. I get a two stroke penalty BUT YOU EFFECTIVELY GET A ONE STROKE PENALTY because you have to play it from the point of interference. Logically, for intentional interference you should get to rethrow OR play from the point of interference. Why do we punish the victim with this rule?

Jon does this to me all the time. He catches me napping about once every weekend if we play a lot of casual rounds. :D

[rhett]

If I were the TD and the player who's disc you swatted reported the violation to me, I would stongly consider, and probably issue, a DQ for blatantly unsportsmanlike conduct.

I think the only real application of the intentional interference rule should be when an unknowing bystander tries to catch your disc because they have no clue what disc golf is. (Or how bad that baby's gonna hurt when they try to grab it!)

Players intentionally interfering should, IMO, be booted.

[Dick]

if your bag is behind you, interference with the flight or path of a disc couldn't easily occur. more like it would rarely occur. i would try to move my bag but the odds of that are slim also. most likely i would be standing there slackjawed in amazement and my effort could be also questioned. i notice nowhere in the rule does it say you are required to move as fast as humanly possible predict thje erratic path of a roilling disc and move the bag while avoiding the disc...sounds like it was unintentional, and the player did NOT leave their equipment in a bad place.

sounds right, but what then if you *are* able to act fast in a situation when it is the disc of the guy who is one stroke ahead of you that is rolling down directly toward your bag after hitting the basket? is it then dishonorable to move your bag out of the way? :confused:

This is such a ridiculous rule. Let's say I putt out under the flow rules from a foot away and you are five feet away. I'm still by the basket when you nonchalantly toss your birdie putt into the chains. I intentionally swat your disc to the ground. I get a two stroke penalty BUT YOU EFFECTIVELY GET A ONE STROKE PENALTY because you have to play it from the point of interference. Logically, for intentional interference you should get to rethrow OR play from the point of interference. Why do we punish the victim with this rule?

Jon does this to me all the time. He catches me napping about once every weekend if we play a lot of casual rounds. :D



In my defense...I only do this in casual rounds and we have a BBDGT rule that says that when I do that, Bruce's putt automatically counts. I actually haven't done it lately because we have been playing for tags with other people and it didn't seem right. Even if we didn't have the BBDGT rule you deserve every stroke you'd get for everything you ever did to me as a little kid. :p

Players intentionally interfering should, IMO, be booted.



This doesn't address the fact that the player that threw the shot that was interfered with is penalized also. The rule should be changed to allow the player at his discretion to play from where the disc lies or to rethrow without penalty if his throw was interfered with intentionally.

[bruce_brakel]

Why do we punish the victim with this rule?



You don't suppose our mom wrote the rule, do you Jon? She was always into punishing both parties to make sure that the guilty party was punished!

Why do we punish the victim with this rule?



You don't suppose our mom wrote the rule, do you Jon? She was always into punishing both parties to make sure that the guilty party was punished!



If mom wrote the rule, then shouldn't the punishment be that dad comes out there and "comes up along side their heads"?

[boru]

803.06 INTERFERENCE
A. A thrown disc that hits another player, spectator, or animal shall be played where it comes to rest. A thrown disc that is intentionally deflected or was caught and moved shall be marked as close as possible to the point of contact, as determined by a majority of the group or an official.

C. Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc . . . shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.



Our courses here are often full of other people, even during tournaments. If there's a danger of hitting bystanders, we send someone to guard them - and knock down shots that get too close.

A strict reading of the rules seems to say that the person guarding would get two stroked for blocking a shot, but obviously, safety comes first, so we're not going to do that. We play the shot where it lies after deflection, although when there has been a dispute about whether the block was necessary, the thrower has been given the option to reshoot. From reading these rules, it seems like the more appropriate thing to do would be to play the disc from where it was blocked.

While it's rare that someone actually has to deflect a disc to prevent it from hitting bystanders, it does happen, and it has affected the outcome of a tournament.

I'd be interested to hear if there's any official position on this type of occurance, and if anyone else has experience dealing with it.

[rhett]

I'd be interested to hear if there's any official position on this type of occurance, and if anyone else has experience dealing with it.



I believe, but am too lazy to look it up, that the sanctioning agreement dictates that you shall get an exclusive-use permit for the course you are hosting a PDGA tournament on. This would enable you to comply with rule 801.01 A, and not throw until you cleared the bystanders out of the way and were certain you would not hit or harm them.

[boru]

We get permits whenever possible, and I'm sure for any PDGA sanctioned events. I'm wondering more about our monthlies, when getting a permit is impossible, but we're still trying to comply with PDGA rules.

[rhett]

If it's non-sanctioned I think you guys are sorta okay. Safety for all should be the number one priority. While we like get irate abotu these clueless park-goers, the truth of the matter is that most non-dgers have no idea what our game is or that it even exists. Even people who picnic in parks near a course seem oblivious to it!

Since the thrower is not really complying with 801.01.A when they throw a shot that might hit the non-players, then getting penalized by having the shot (hopefully) knocked down with no penalty to the knocker-downer sounds reasonable. What sounds more reasonable to me, though, is choosing an alternate/goofy/non-preferred route that doesn't endanger the non-players. It's just a monthly, right? It's not like you'd be giving up your first NT event win by maybe losing one stroke and not hitting anybody. :)

I believe, but am too lazy to look it up, that the sanctioning agreement dictates that you shall get an exclusive-use permit for the course you are hosting a PDGA tournament on.



Sorry Rhett, but I have to call BS on that one. I've never heard of that, never gotten an exclusive use permit for any of my tourneys, and I'm under the understanding that Scottsdale won't even grant one to Ginnelly when he runs the Memorial.

Who's compiling the list of non-rules rules? We've got one to add.

[jconnell]

Page 4 of the tournament sanctioning agreement:

TDs further:
• agree to reserve/obtain permission to use the course(s) for the event. In designing and planning for the event, care should be taken to minimize the chance of injury to the public, especially in the creation of new or additional holes.



While not specifying "exclusive" use, the PDGA sanctioning agreement does require formal permission of use, which for most public parks entails obtaining a permit. Without such a permit, a TD/club could not "shut down" a course to casual players for the day/weekend. Without the permit, no one could legally stop that casual Saturday ten-some from jumping between a couple tournament groups and playing a round.

This need for permission is one of the main reasons the PDGA offers the insurance option, I believe. Some municipalities require groups to have some sort of insurance in order to obtain the proper permits and run an event. The PDGA insurance is often the easiest and cheapest option.

--Josh

[rhett]

I was under the impression that the permit gives you exclusive use of the course but not the park. Having that permit allows you to call the parks department and make them move the family that just set up a picnic under the basket of the tournament hole, because it's part of the course. Without that ability you are screwed.

[boru]

Land is so scarce here on Oahu that there's really no way around it - we're going to have to share our courses, even during tournaments, for the foreseeable future. We're still struggling for acceptance, which means acting like guests most of the time. If a family sets up camp in the middle of one of our holes, we work around them, either by sending spotters or moving the hole. We've been able to obtain permits for most of our recent monthlies, which is progress. But mostly, our arrangements are tenuous at best. Our ability to play at the University of Hawaii, where we're tolerated, but not officially allowed, depends entirely on us maintaining good relations with campus security.

[neonnoodle]

Thanks for getting some disc golf started there.

Someday!!! Hey! You got any floor space? :cool::p

[boru]

I can't even begin to take credit for getting disc golf started here. It's been going on for a good 20 years, at least, but recently, the scene has come together and we've gained some momentum.

I'd encourage anyone who's thinking about it to come out here and play. Our scene is about as grassroots as it gets, but what we lack in numbers, we make up for in fun. Most of our courses are in settings of astonishing natural beauty - you know, like the postcards. Plus, when winter has you throwing into a tarp or playing Ice Bowls, it's 75 degrees and sunny here. Did I mention that when the scorching July sun is pushing the mercury into triple digits on your home course, it's 79 degrees and sunny here?

And yes, I have a very uncomfortable fold-out couch available!

I was under the impression that the permit gives you exclusive use of the course but not the park.



Maybe it does in SoCal. According to Ginnelly, it doesn't in Scottsdale. Fortunately, it hasn't been an issue. Once the casual player sees that the course is completely full, and there's no way they're playing through, they go to the couse 5 miles away.

[jamie]

Sunday at our mini, I threw and my disc hit someone and fell OB. How is this officially played?? Do I get a chance to rethrow or is it OB and have to be playedfrom where it landed?

[ck34]

Do I get a chance to rethrow or is it OB and have to be played from where it landed?




Did you check our online rule book under 803.06?