whats in the future for discgolf

i often ask myself (self) why hasn't discgolf grown to the point that you can watch it on tv like snowboarding or bmx bike riding or see highlights of discgolf on espn sportcenter ? is it because most people don't consider discgolf a sport ? why would one of the first discgolf tourniments be worth $50,000 dollars and go down hill from there ? why does ashley whippet get more exposure then discgolf,are dogs more interesting then people ? will i ever be able to fill out my income tax form and be able to put prof.discgolf player as my profession (ok don't answer that one) but you know what i mean.is discgolf always going to be just a sport that you read about in the paper every once and awhile ? what has to happen before will see discgolf on tv ?

[bapmaster]

What has to happen is the player base has to grow. Disc golf isn't exciting enough to interest the average viewer, and there aren't enough golfers to generate the advertising revenue necessary for TV time. So, basically you wait (actually, you get off your [*****] and get more and more people playing, which is what the PDGA should be focusing their efforts on). IMO :D

[dannyreeves]

(which is what the PDGA should be focusing their efforts on). IMO :D



I hope you wrote that on the PDGA Survey.

[james_mccaine]

Yeah, what BM said. There's no doubt in my mind that this sport will eventually get there, but it will take a long time. 10, 20, 50+ years?, I don't know, but we're not close.

[dannyreeves]

We will still have a lot of fun on the way "there".

What has to happen is the player base has to grow. Disc golf isn't exciting enough to interest the average viewer, and there aren't enough golfers to generate the advertising revenue necessary for TV time.



does anyone know the ratio of discgolfers to pro ball golfers?
i think we have enough players,it has to be more than that?
but good answer thanks

[rhett]

I think you need to compare disc golfer total to ball golfer total. Something like 40% of our total number of players are "pro". I would guess that the ball golfer percentage is more along the lines of 1%.

[cbdiscpimp]

What has to happen is the player base has to grow. Disc golf isn't exciting enough to interest the average viewer, and there aren't enough golfers to generate the advertising revenue necessary for TV time.



Your joking right. So your saying curling on TV and ping pong and bowling and BASEBALL are more exciting then disc golf is. They all get TV time well ok maybe curling only in the olympics but thats still more then Disc Golf. Ill tell you what i would rather watch Disc Golf on TV then a Dog Show or BASEBALL or ping pong or anything like that. How is Disc Golf not just as Exciting if not more then PGA ball golf. As far as player base goes you have go to be crazy. For Every one of the 25,000 plus PDGA members we have there are atleast 5,000 maybe more that dont have memberships or dont know about memberships. We have millions of players nation wide and even more Internationaly. Id say there is enough interest.

The real problem lies in the publicity of our sport and how it is viewed by others. Everyone has the idea that its just a bunch of stoner people throwing frisbees in the woods. They dont realize thats its a real SPORT that takes real talent and its not a joke. We dont have a good enough image for our sport to grow like that right now. Plain and simple we wont get the TV time we want or the sponsorship we need if everyone just looks at us a a bunch of Druggies tossing frisbees in the woods because we are too stoned or drunk to do anything else. :mad: That is the ultimate reason we arent where we want or where we should be with this sport.

The PDGA needs to focus on cleaning up the image of disc golf so that its is presentable on TV and presentable to National Sponsors. Collared shirts at all B tier events and above. Mandatory probation or suspension for any player caught smoking dope on the course or at an event. No drinking beer at B tiers and above. Thats what the PDGA should concentrate on. They should also see if there is any possible way we could get hooked up with the PGA for some publicity or something along those lines. :D

The interest and player base is there it just has to be made presentable to potential sponsors and TV stations. Untill then we are SOL. Maybe HIGH TIMES or BONG OUR US will give us the sponsorship money we need in the mean time. OH WAIT NO THEY WONT.

[james_mccaine]

Yeah, along the same lines as Rhett's point, way more people (10X?) play and have played ball golf, and the average income of these way more people is also way more.

[scoop]

does anyone know the ratio of discgolfers to pro ball golfers?
i think we have enough players,it has to be more than that?
but good answer thanks



I don't think that's a relevant ratio...a more relevant ratio would be the number of disc golfer to the number of all ball golfers. You know, the people who buy golf equipment, club memberships, attend tour events, and pay-to-play?

While I don't know that ratio, I'm guessing there is an enourmous gulf. That holds true for nearly every sport in the US (with the exception of my other fav. past time, Marathon Canoe Racing). It's not the number of Pros that play a particular sport that attracts big sponsorhips, big money, and TV crowds...it's the amount of potential buyers in that sports demographic that matters.

I think a huge step to increasing the exposure of disc golf would be to somehow get it included in the summer X-games. How many people knew what free-style motocross was until about 6 years ago? Now they have movies about it, and the sport's top riders live in million dollar digs and collect Italian sports cars for a hobby.

We'll be there when it costs $30,000 a year for membership at the Woodshed Country Club and Spa.

In ball golf its ALL pay to play....I'm sure that the PGA discusssion board doesn't have threads like "Interested in more Pay-to-play courses".

It will come...just look at where we were ten years ago.

We just need to selflessly promote the sport...and stupid as it may sound, the AMs and Jr's are our future...we best train them well!

MS

[Chris Hysell]

Spa? Not in WV.

[rhett]

I like watching freestyle motorcycle insanity but would never consider doing it. Disc golf is nowhere near as exciting as that and would have a very hard time attracting people who didn't play to watch it. We don't even watch it ourselves! I posted this before, but when was the last time you stuck around to watch the final-9 when you travelled from out of town, even when the big guns were there? It's a tough sell, and we are what we are.

And I don't mean you specificially. I mean you as is in everyone who reads this. Most of the final 9 galleries around here consist of the cashing players who aren't in a hurry to get home because they are local, killing time to collect their checks. The out of towners usually can't get to their cars fast enough after their last putt, even when there is a one-stroke lead after an amazing comeback rounds about to go out in the final.

[cbdiscpimp]

That is Exactly right. It needs to be put in the spotlight along with other sports so it get the Exsposure. Then BOOM disc golf will have sponsors and be all over the place in a matter of who knows months. I think there are alot more people involved in disc golf then Freestyle motorcross and i think more people would be willing to try disc golf then freestyle motorcross. If we could get it in the spotlight by maybe having it advertised along with a major ball golf tournament that would be huge. Like have a NT event in close proximity to a PGA tour event and get some talk time on one of the commercials or have a joint pass type a deal. buy a ticket to the PGA event get free Access to the DG event??? Who knows. I still think we first need to clean up our image. The PDGA can and should do that for us. New rules and regs that are strictly enforced should do the trick.

[spartan]

read the interview with Harold Duvall in the last DGWN. He talks about how disc golf numbers - maybe he was talking of membership holders in the PDGA- are increasing at 15% a year. He makes it sound like disc golf is the number one growing sport in the nation. How can you be so bleek? I remember 4yrs ago when I started there wasn't this many tournies, players or as much volunteers and popularity.

USDGC is the future of disc golf and national awarenes. Of course the place is just built to house a huge gallery, has the best players from around the world and the setting there in October I here is pretty nice too. I wouldnt be surprised to see the USDGC on TV in a few years. This is the way to show the public disc golf's popularity and appeal. And what a better setting than the USDGC? You don't think Climo and Barry in that sudden death playoff wouldn't have stopped a few bored tv surfers?

Also, the Dueceille Crew-Crump, Schweb and McCree, mention sponsoship outside of disc golf. I wonder if the powers above have talked with the companies that might not know us golfers are out there? Seal Skins, Red Bull, Gatorade, Nike, Addidas, Water Companies like Dasani which is a Coke product. Have they been approached for endorcments? I wonder is Gatroade actually knows that disc golfers are out there buying their product. Maybe Power Aid a competitor of Gatoraid. I know we have seen these names all the time but I wonder if they know about disc golf and it's popularity.

We all know it just takes time for sports to evolve but I think we are growing at a pretty darn good rate. And like Kid said, it has been pretty fun on the way.

[gnduke]

It's all about the money. When you have players willing to shell out $200+ for the latest long driver, then courses with pro shops will be around to sell them.

Though the margin for pro shops is pretty good today. Maybe when players have to buy plastic instead of winning more than they will ever throw, then pro shops can start making money.

[flynvegas]

Wouldn't you agree that snowboarders are known to be fans of the hippy lettuce? How many were kicked off the Olympic team for use of the cronic? Look at the Portland Trailblazers. Guy takes his pot onto a airplane wrapped in tin foil!

I don't believe the sport hasn't taken off because of pot smokers, it's a part of society. When Whamo was a part of the sport back in the '70's they promoted the sport in a huge way. Can Innova / Discraft / Lightning / Gateway / DGA and the others do more? I don't know.

Why did Disc TV disappear after one season? Was it the lack of funding or lack of viewers / advertising sales.

Possibly the PDGA can pull all of the mfr's together to come up with a plan to promote the sport. Pool some money together to pay the ESPN fee's to get he USDC shown to the public. Heck, they could all sell Fund Raiser disc's to pay ESPN.

I'll keep playing either way.

[cbdiscpimp]

Maybe you guys dont stick around where your from. I know i stick around to watch the big guns no matter what the lead is or not. There are alot of people who do the same thing. We arent talking about small tournaments here. We are talking about NT events and Supertours where you usually have to fly or drive a good ways to play these weekend long events. Of course your not going to stick around for a final 9 at billy joe bobs C tier where first prize consists of 150 dollars and means nothing. Whats the point in that esecially if i drove an hour or two to play why stick around for another 1.5 hours to watch someone win a tournament that means nothing!!!

Thats pointless. If we are at the Memorial and Kenny and Barry and Cam are battling it out in the Final nine for Thousands of dollars hell yeah we are all going to stick around. Even more so since we prolly drove or flew over 500 miles to get there. The NT events and the Supertours are what matter. Then the B tiers which are starting to be 2 day events. Anything below that isnt going to get national TV or Air time no matter what we do.

I think the demand is there. We just need to catch a good break and clean up our act ALOT. The truth hurts but i dont think we are ready to put ourselves in the spotlight right now. The image isnt good enough IMO. What do you guys think???

[spartan]

on a sidenote, A guy selling Kerby vaccum cleaners came by my house the other day while I was gone. He asked my girlfriend if someone in the family played, "frolf" with my basket in obvious view. :D

Kelly said that she wouldn't have known what he was talking about if she hadn't heard about the MAXIM article that a friend was telling us about last weekend. I guess he knew I played and thought I would get a kick outta hearing the sport being made fun of.

People just don't know how serious the sport is taken, by some. When I say professional disc golfer, I mostly gets laughs and weird looks from people when I'm explaining why I'm gone over the weekends.

[cbdiscpimp]

I wonder if the powers above have talked with the companies that might not know us golfers are out there? Seal Skins, Red Bull, Gatorade, Nike, Addidas, Water Companies like Dasani which is a Coke product. Have they been approached for endorcments? I wonder is Gatroade actually knows that disc golfers are out there buying their product. Maybe Power Aid a competitor of Gatoraid. I know we have seen these names all the time but I wonder if they know about disc golf and it's popularity.




Perfect. We need someone from the PDGA or Innova or Discraft or whoever goes in search of sponsors to talk to these people. If we can get one just one huge sponsor then the other who wouldnt may start to consider it. Almost every discgolfer i know drinks Red Bull or Amp and Gatoraide and I know every golf bag has a water bottle holder on it. If there was a water company who sponsored disc golf you better believe im going to buy their water over the other water and i bet alot of other would as well. If Dasani sponors disc golf and Evian does not and im a disc golfer why wouldnt i buy the dasani water. It helps our sport.

Its not about spending 200 on the latest driver either. In ball golf you can spend that 200-500 dollars on the club and use it for the REST of your LIFE. Discs arent like that. They get old and dont perform how they used to which mean you have to buy new ones. Thats not what its about. Its about gettin our sport recognized by the big companys.

[dannyreeves]

I wonder if the powers above have talked with the companies that might not know us golfers are out there? Seal Skins, Red Bull, Gatorade, Nike, Addidas, Water Companies like Dasani which is a Coke product. Have they been approached for endorcments? I wonder is Gatroade actually knows that disc golfers are out there buying their product. Maybe Power Aid a competitor of Gatoraid. I know we have seen these names all the time but I wonder if they know about disc golf and it's popularity.




Perfect. We need someone from the PDGA or Innova or Discraft or whoever goes in search of sponsors to talk to these people. If we can get one just one huge sponsor then the other who wouldnt may start to consider it. Almost every discgolfer i know drinks Red Bull or Amp and Gatoraide and I know every golf bag has a water bottle holder on it. If there was a water company who sponsored disc golf you better believe im going to buy their water over the other water and i bet alot of other would as well. If Dasani sponors disc golf and Evian does not and im a disc golfer why wouldnt i buy the dasani water. It helps our sport.

Its not about spending 200 on the latest driver either. In ball golf you can spend that 200-500 dollars on the club and use it for the REST of your LIFE. Discs arent like that. They get old and dont perform how they used to which mean you have to buy new ones. Thats not what its about. Its about gettin our sport recognized by the big companys.



Maybe Chris Himing could chime in on the sponsorship subject. He has been very successful in getting big companies to sponsor the Texas 10 Tour.

man you guys are on fire,this is great stuff,great ideals,keep it coming.i agree we need clean up our image after all we know john daly is an boozer,but you don't see a botlle of johhny walker hanging out of his back pocket.but i also think it is up to us to clean up our image as well.i hate to say this but some of our top poeple in discgolf are stoners and if they do it what makes you think they'll enforce something thier guilty of themselves.(it was nice knowing everyone,i hope honesty doesn't get you band from the discussion board)if all people see is people getting high at any given course on any given day then thats what kind of image we are going to have.if we could just clean up this one issue it would go a long way to promote our sport

[bapmaster]

The real problem lies in the publicity of our sport and how it is viewed by others. Everyone has the idea that its just a bunch of stoner people throwing frisbees in the woods.



Now I get to say it. You're joking, right? Man, most people don't think that it's a stoner sport. Most people don't even know the sport exists. There may be a good percentage of people out there that think stoners play the sport, but I'd say the better part of that percentage are disc golfers themselves. And you can say all you want about how "huge" our player base is, but it doesn't even begin to approach that of ball golf. Or even ping pong or bowling. Which is why those sports get on TV. Not because they are exciting. I understand that there are a lot of people that play this game, but, the fact of the matter is, the majority of those people would rather be out playing on a Saturday than sitting at home, even to watch the Champ play. It takes millions of people's interest to get the coverage that ball golf (or even bowling) get.

One more thing on that. Even if you want to say that there are a million (I'm not really sure of the number, but that's nice and round, so to speak) people that play disc golf on a daily basis, I would say that there is a good portion of that base that doesn't even really know that disc golf is not "frisbee golf," or that it is even a sport that some people take seriously. I myself played 11 sanctioned events last year, and I only heard of the PDGA 2 years ago. I would say that I'm pretty average in that matter. There are lots of casual players out there that don't even know that we have a governing body that brings us together.

All that to say this. I'm sure that the image problem is something that needs to be taken care of, but I believe that that image problem will be taken care of as the sport grows. We're not going to be on TV next week even if we could make marijuana disappear off the face of the planet (GOD FORBID). We just need more people interested. Which is not only the PDGA's job, but yours and mine.

BTW, Kid Roc, I did put that stuff in the survey, on just about every field that they let me type something in. :D

true that
when is the pgda going to go after sponser for thier product that we use every single day at the course ?

[rhett]

I'm pretty sure ESPN tried to cover a disc golf event before. Something happened and they've never returned. I think Garnett knows the specifics. I'm pretty sure we are starting from less-than-ground-zero with them.

Pepsi used to sponsor the Frisbee championships. Bud or Coors used to sponsor the Wintertime Open. Maybe instead of just throwing out things for others to do, some of you guys could get together and make an effort to understand what has happened in the past and then try to move us forward. It's easy to say "Innova, Discraft or whoever should go after Pepsi". It's easy to say "somebody should get us on ESPN." People have tried and are trying.

It would be better to step up and start doing. Oh, sorry. I know you're too busy to do it. But please, if you aren't too busy you should try and find out what has happened in the past. If we're already on ESPN's black list, it takes a different approach than if they've never heard of us. Same with Pepsi, Coke, and Bud.

And if it was easy to get them, they'd already be on board.

rhett it sounds as if you already know the answers to as why where on espn's black list or to why bud ,coors and pepsi and coke don't want to sponser us can you please expound on this or can you pm me with this info ?

[junnila]

true that
when is the pgda going to go after sponser for thier product that we use every single day at the course ?



Maybe ZigZag will sponsor us. I know a lot of golfers who use their product on a regular basis. As for cleaning up our act, I feel that disc golf has a good reputation. People who see us playing don't know that many of us smoke ganja, and probably don't care. There are numerous other sports where some of the top competitors indulge. Some of the top Skiers of the US Ski Team smoke, trip, and get wasted just like some golfers. Our reputation is not the issue here, it is getting more people involved in our sport thus increasing money raised for tourney's, clubs, etc. Stop stressing the idea that we need to clean up our act, it is not the major problem!

The 2003 Riverside Open secured sponsorship from Red Bull. The Red Bull Gals were walking around during registration handing out free drinks.

Get in touch with your regional reps and ask what is available.

Not big $$$ but a start.

and also:

1. I don't thing raw numbers of participants is the 'Cure all' for this issue. There are a bunch of 'fringe' sports with more participants than us that get little or no airtime as well.

2. We are NOT and 'extreme sport'. Sorry. Put away the bong and the Snowboarder comparison.

3. We are NOT an established sport. Sorry. Put away the bong and the Trailblazers comparison.

4. Disc Golf is fun to watch but hard to videotape. Makes things tough to promote when viewers can't tell if someone is 'Golfing' and gets a Turkey or 'Hunting' and gets a Turkey. All our favorite wooded courses are a tv producers least favorite.

5. Take a shower, put on a shirt (with sleeves), drop the smoke and the booze. Events that look like a county fair/monster truck rally are hard to promote.

[spartan]

or instead of complaining and knit-picking your fellow disc golfers, you could help explain some of the logistics on obtaining certain sponsorship. Kinda like how Kid asked if Chris Himing could elaborate on how he does it so well.

we are not a very big voice alone but together we can be heard a lot better. Coming on here to share ideas and questions isn't a bad thing but trying to undermine what WE as a group do for the sport is a little, well, *sshole. We are all on the same team here Rhett and I am sure if someone felt they had a glimmer of the future for disc golf they would come here and share not criticize and hold it above everyone's head.

you are right that it is much easier to ask what the heads above are doing for the sport but it also let's people see what they can do realistically on their own. That is if people come here to share and inspire. Not point fingers and complain.

LYLAS

[cbdiscpimp]

rhett it sounds as if you already know the answers to as why where on espn's black list or to why bud ,coors and pepsi and coke don't want to sponser us can you please expound on this or can you pm me with this info ?


I would also like to know what happend with that. Can you shoot me a PM with the details also. Thanks

[flynvegas]

I thought I read that the ESPN issue is one of money. ESPN requires a fee of something like $30k+ just for air time. That's how crazy stuff like chess gets on there. Fund raiser disc's by all mfr's. could take care of that fee, ultimately bringing more people to the sport and more $ into their business. Look, last week alone Innova sold over $100k in 24 hours with the CE Roc. Just a thought.

[cbdiscpimp]

4. Disc Golf is fun to watch but hard to videotape. Makes things tough to promote when viewers can't tell if someone is 'Golfing' and gets a Turkey or 'Hunting' and gets a Turkey. All our favorite wooded courses are a tv producers least favorite.

5. Take a shower, put on a shirt (with sleeves), drop the smoke and the booze. Events that look like a county fair/monster truck rally are hard to promote.



As to number 4. Wouldnt it be the same as trying to tape Ball golf. Ball golf the ball moves alot faster then a disc does and they seem to do it pretty well.

As for number 5. DING DING DING we have a winner. Take this guys advice and maybe someone would WANT to put us on TV. We have to look presentable before someone will present us to the Nation on their station. :D

[junnila]

Yeah, we have to look presentable, because Monster Truck rally's are never on TV...hmm...looks are only a small factor here. It is true that we need to look presentable, but I find disc golf to be a more relaxed sport than others. There are so many demographics of disc golfers that to put a rule on how we dress is hypocritical to the sport itself. We are not ball golfers making millions per year, and probably never will be (sorry for being pessimistic) so why should we have a similar dress code as them? Makes no sense to me...someone fill me in here.

[spartan]

As for number 5. DING DING DING we have a winner. Take this guys advice and maybe someone would WANT to put us on TV. We have to look presentable before someone will present us to the Nation on their station. :D



That's why we present events like USDGC, the Memorial and E.D.G.E. Events like these show the best of the best and you can't tell me those events aren't "professional"? Events and tools like theses are already paving the way to the future of big disc golf.

yeah the ball moves faster in BG but the courses are so wide open the camera operators can track it. (they ARE crazy skilled though)

Taping in a wooded course would be mostly sticks and leaves on the TV. You could do some filming straight up or down the fairway. This has also poses problems... annoying to golfers when a camera operator is squatting in the fairway ahead of you. and it could be boring to just watch the disc either coming straight at you or straight away. Variety of angles would be better. (Of course I would watch Night Disc Golf if it was on TV)

Thanks Rhett...Do you people actually think, that some of us who have been doing this for over twenty years haven't thought of these things ie Coke, Pepsi, Bud and Trojan.

It's a difficult world out there trying to get some of the billions of dollars in advertising to find it's way to your tournament.

Try it some time...make some phone calls! Work your connections...

Most of the money generated fro DG seem to come from within....

After years of trying to get sponsorship for the WVO (our remoteness is a factor), I gave up. Well, trying to get corporate money for sponsorship.

I've gone back to you all...I make mini's, you buy them, the WVO gets funds to operate and provide "added cash" for the tournaments.

Currently I'm nearing 100 minis sold. ME... not some f-ing corp. ME.

Moral....stop with the unending gushes of verbal diarrhea and get off your butts and DO something.


Let the "quotes" begin.

MS

Yeah, we have to look presentable, because Monster Truck rally's are never on TV...hmm...looks are only a small factor here. It is true that we need to look presentable, but I find disc golf to be a more relaxed sport than others. There are so many demographics of disc golfers that to put a rule on how we dress is hypocritical to the sport itself. We are not ball golfers making millions per year, and probably never will be (sorry for being pessimistic) so why should we have a similar dress code as them? Makes no sense to me...someone fill me in here.



See my #2 above and replace Snowboarder with Monster Truck.

It's harder to clean up a sports image than it is to make it 'extreme'.

[tafe]

I think you're a lot closer on #4. I quote Wu-Tang, "Cash Rules Everything Around Me." Ball golf on TV has cameras EVERYWHERE. Up in the tower, behind the groupS, in front of the groupS, on the fairways, and on the greens. Not only all that but those great helicopter shots of how the hole plays. That costs SERIOUS money.

[cbdiscpimp]

Yeah, we have to look presentable, because Monster Truck rally's are never on TV...hmm...looks are only a small factor here. It is true that we need to look presentable, but I find disc golf to be a more relaxed sport than others. There are so many demographics of disc golfers that to put a rule on how we dress is hypocritical to the sport itself. We are not ball golfers making millions per year, and probably never will be (sorry for being pessimistic) so why should we have a similar dress code as them? Makes no sense to me...someone fill me in here.



The monster truck rally comment i am sure was aimed at who watches moster truck rallies. Not who participates and actually drives in monster truck rallies because those are MONSTER TRUCKS you rarely see who drives them. Im sure they were referring that the disc golf players look like Monster Truck Rally Spectators.

Image has everything to do with it. You think they want to put some disc golfer smoking a spliff on the first tee on national TV, give me a break.

Like said earlier Take a shower put on a shirt with a collar and sleeves and Drop the booze and dope or atleast leave them in the car.

a spliff is an ounce sized joint or bigger....I dont know too may golfers taht will smoke that on the course..but thats why they have an editing room :cool: seriously though i dont think the whole pot thing is whats keeping DG off the air. it goes ALOT deeper than that. Maybe SportsLoop will help us out. HA

ok lets just say we know pot is a factor a small factor but none the less a part of why dg isn't tv friendly and leave it at that .dress code could also be a factor,we can't have poeple running around with wife beater shirts on or no shirts at all.good ideal(all b tier and above need to wear collored shirts)course design could be another reason after all if the outback steak house blimp can't see the hole,than how are we gonna get it on camera.getting someone to promote our sport in a faverable lite might not be a bad ideal either,these are all things we need to think about.anyone else have some thought to this matter???

As mentioned before, we need communication with those who have attempted to secure sponsorship in the past (successful or not). That way we can learn from our mistakes and build on what has worked.

The brightest spot that I can see is the Texas10 Series. Sponsorship from outside the DG umbrella. Sponsorship from DG Vendors is critical but the next step is reaching to outside sources.

But communication is #1 in my mind. No need to trip over the same stump time and time again.

How come no one has mentioned the Disc Golf National Center?

I think we are going to find that this will be an excellent oppertunity to centralize much of our energies, and we have the tools down there to really make something good for the sport. I hope that this Center will become a beacon for Disc Golf throughout the country.

That's why I'm moving to Georgia to make it happen. Get active in your state scene/go to meetings/and go through a lot of the "grunt work" in order to find out what you can do to improve the sport in your own backyard. You never can tell where these experiences will take you.

just my .02

[junnila]

a spliff is an ounce sized joint or bigger...



Wha wha whaaaat...a spliff is not an ounce joint or bigger, it is merely a conical doobie. :D

[dscmn]

yeah! how about it! let's all put on collared shirts and watch the money roll in! stylin' baby. this cracks me up. keep up the comedy all...mentos! (cut to scene of tight, white shorted disc golfers, freshly shaven, collared golf shirts high freakin' fivin'. yup, mentos.)

go teescum, the check's in the mail.

[cbdiscpimp]

yeah! how about it! let's all put on collared shirts and watch the money roll in! stylin' baby. this cracks me up. keep up the comedy all...mentos! (cut to scene of tight, white shorted disc golfers, freshly shaven, collared golf shirts high freakin' fivin'. yup, mentos.)





No one said anything about tight white shorts or cleanly shaven. we said collared shirts and not wifebeaters or no shirts. So you can cut to whatever scene you want but if you want to post something. Make is something worth reading and have some basis for it. Im really getting sick of guys like you who post dumb [*****] just to make themselves feel cool. How bout you go back to highschool and pick on the nerds man. Stop wasting our time.

[dscmn]

oh my. now THAT was funny. i'm sorry if the shorts comment hit too close to home. why go back to high school when there are nerds right here? keep up the high-minded indignation, it'll get me through the week.

[neonnoodle]

The majority of disc golfers seem to think that dressing like hobos is a good look. It would be funny if it weren't sad, that these poor sods actually think they look good in faded tee shirts from 1996 with holes in them and a permanent skid mark from their golf bag on the shoulder. Or the baseball cap that his so worn out it can hardly stay on, with its sweat tie-dye pattern and smelling like a week old dead dear. Then there is the PJ brigade, of folks that think they look sharp in their pajamas or sleep wear. I think organized, particularly top end (who cares what you look like at league night…), competitive disc golf could use the Fab 5 for a year or two to get a little flow in their game.

This along with beat up looking tees and pin areas give our sport a slightly ragged look.

Nothing makes this more obvious than watching a disc golf video (even professionally shot and edited ones, or particularly them).



On a superficial, but most apparent, level this is where our sport does not promote sponsors, spectators and potential participants high regard for our sport or interest in support.

Sorry. Wish it weren't so. But folks need to stop and take a look in the mirror before heading out to PDGAs. That is unless they are purposefully trying to repel potential sponsors, spectators and participants from disc golf…

[twoputtok]

Well said. ;)

the previous offering from lil nicki is proof positive that even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.

i am not the snappiest dresser around, but in public i usually try to look presentable. on the golf course, i've always taken a lot of pride in the fact that most of the time (and always in organized play) i LOOK like a player of a respectable sport, even if i don't play like a pro. :)

khaki or decent denim shorts (or nice sweat pants without holes when its cold) with a decent looking shirt is such an easy look to pull off, even for me, and is so comfortable to play in that i don't know why more folks don't make the effort.

i like looking respectable on the course and it makes me cringe whenever a sponsor or local media type shows up at a tourney only to find many of the top level guys worth watching walking around in wife beaters (no offense JK :) ) and other ragged attire. i guess some people just don't get it.

oh, and some of the fashion statements i've seen on the course...whew! scary.

[ck34]

I'd say our few women players do a better job presenting themselves than the guys on average.

I may work hard for disc golf...but I am at fault with the dressing issue....When I DO dress, I look alot like Kevin Stewart (my shoes are better), yes, I am not perfect.

I just have a computer with broadband.

MS

you are right this will make a huge differents in inabling poeple to view discgolf for maybe the first time at a great venue,but why stop there .there should be centers like this all across the nation i.e. mi. tx.ca.kc ect. these would all be great places for such a facility.

[ck34]

The 72-hole northern Wisconsin complex comes online this summer.

[cbdiscpimp]

oh my. now THAT was funny. i'm sorry if the shorts comment hit too close to home. why go back to high school when there are nerds right here? keep up the high-minded indignation, it'll get me through the week.



You and stevebeckman should get together and discuss your worhtless thoughts together. That would be hillarious. 2 people with nothing good to say sitting in a room making fun of eachother because they think they are cooler then everyone else. Grow up pal and come back when you have something useful to write and for others to read. Untill then you might want to hang out at a Elementary school they prolly are on the same level as you. :o

Lets clean up our image and bust our asses to make this sport what it can an should be. On TV with big sponsors and proffesionals who dont have to work another job for a living :D

steve
you don't pour gas on a fire to put it out,just egnore this guy and he'll fade away like disco did in the 70's :D
back to the issue at hand:
what if we where to send some disc to the top pro ball golfer's with some maps to thier local course's (just a thought)and get them interested it our sport, or to the PGA as some kind of promo gimic.

[cbdiscpimp]

what if we where to send some disc to the top pro ball golfer's with some maps to thier local course's (just a thought)and get them interested it our sport, or to the PGA as some kind of promo gimic.



I really like the idea of getting involved with the PGA maybe even like a tournament where some of our pros pair up with some of thier pros for a Disc/ Ball golf Tournament???

Play 2 man scrable ball golf teams in the AM then Doubles DG in the afternoon with one PGA pro and one PDGA pro per team???

That would get us soooooooooo much publicity it wouldnt even be funny. They could even do it on (i might get slammed for saying this on the pdga board but) a FLY 18 course. They wouldnt even have to go anywhere for the second round. It would also lend well to camera footage :D

make it a charity event and it could happen.ball golfers and discgolfers playing for thier favorite charity,sounds good :D

[dscmn]

wow. i see the light now pimpboy. i was wondering, did you get a badge and whistle when you were assigned the post of message board policeman? really, i was merely interjecting some humor in a funny conversation about how the magical golf shirt will bring sponsorship into the sport. you need to lighten up. if you're so concerned about the sport stop spouting off here and do something.

:eek:

[dscmn]

what disco faded away? ****!

[dscmn]

steve, for the sake of us elementary level folk, what does "prolly" mean? i would appreciate a response, however you could just "egnore" me too. before long, the weekend will be here, thanks for the humor.

[james_mccaine]

I really admire y'alls enthusiasm, but at the same time I fully understand and share the sentiments of those who appear to be killjoys. In my grand view at least, growth of the sport is simply about numbers and time. Time is out of our hands. Numbers can be helped by all of us and the PDGA efforts, many presently in existence. Local efforts, while the lifeblood of the present, have less impact in the grand sense.

I find this incessant worry about our appearance/image very strange. Back in the 80s, Austin Cablevision had a regular running 30 minute disc golf show followed by a show on legalizing hemp called "time for hemp." My boss at the time (a wealthy conservative, avid ball golfer) used to always say it was no coincidence that after the disc golf show, it was time for hemp. We would laugh, and I'm sure he felt it was true. However, he still had respect for disc golf despite his jokes. I'm not sure exactly what the moral is, but to most normal people, character includes much more than wardrobe or pot smoking.

[cbdiscpimp]

Thats funny cuz i dont think anyone found it humorous but you. Why dont you stop spouting off nonscence and add a useful comment to the board.

[dscmn]

ohh, i like when you get angry.

Are you guys gonna (this means "going to") meet in Ohio and fight?

[dscmn]

yeah, my mom says i can go when i get my homework finished.

[mattdisc]

All right kids, chill out. Mr pimp, no need to be soooo uptight about a little humor. :D

Anyway the dude your sparring with is building one of the most unbelieveable awesome Par 72 disc golf course around.

Disc golf will continue to grow at the same steady pace it has for the last 20 + years I've been playing. I started wearing a collared shirts in the 90's, still no magical money falling out of the sky. peace :cool:

[cbdiscpimp]

Good par 72 courses RULE. Im just saying that cleaning up our image could only help and not hurt us.

Here is an excerpt from one of the tournament threads:


The woodlands has been very diffult to work with. First taking 30% from the tournaments, which we had to make up with sponsors. Then they called yesterday complaining about Wyatt getting in the pond to pull out discs to give back to the players (They want the woodlands to keep the discs). This tournament they screwed up for almost ten days turning people away. We have had enough and broke relationship with WCA. They might try running their own tournaments, so they can take their 30% out of everyones pocket.




By the way, if the woodlands puts on their own tournament the will be paying out cash. ALSO, THEY WILL BE REPORTING THIS CASH PAY OUT TO THE IRS!!! We recieved a W-9 for the 1/3/04 tournament for all entry fees, which we are having to pay taxes on now.



The more money that starts to come into this sport the more people we will see trying to get their hands on it and take control of it. In my eyes more and more cases such as this will start to take place (maybe it is happening alot already and I am just not aware of it). Are our Tournament Directors ready to handle these situations? Are the PDGA "powers that be" prepared to help it's TDs overcome these obstacles?

As for the IRS quote I really cannot comment because of a lack of knowledge on my part about that aspect of touraments.


So I will ask again:

Are TDs and the PDGA "PTB" prepared to overcome these obstacles?

this sounds like an isolated problem w/this tourny. and i think as discgolf grows so will our understanding of how to deal with the problems that come with growth.as far as the irs goes,i believe if you make a certain amount of money playing discgolf then you have to report it(i don't have that problem,because i don't cash that often) :eek: maybe one of our touring players that have that problem could answer that for you :D

[dscmn]

that sure is well said. i've seen this topic come up before and these same old tired arguments. sponsors want something for their dollar. exposure. sales. if people watched grown men argue on the internet, cbdiscpimp and i would be sponsored players. no matter that i'm wearing a bra, tutu and have lipstick smeared all over my face.

[cbdiscpimp]

Oh thats hillarious. you think the message board will sponsor us to agrue what they think???

Your right about the exposure thing. But how can we give them exposure if all they think we do is smoke dope and play in the woods???

My thought is that we need to be prepared before hand for these things. Learning as we go is not the best solution IMO. Yes, we can add to our knowledge as more and more things like this happen but I feel that we should be prepared and understand how to deal with it before it ever happens.

Anyway, I thought this subject would be something worth talking about so I'll shut up so others can respond. :)

All right kids, chill out. Mr pimp, no need to be soooo uptight about a little humor. :D

Anyway the dude your sparring with is building one of the most unbelieveable awesome Par 72 disc golf course around.




i'll prolly kick myself in the head for this later but here it goes
dscmn
i find it hard to believe that someone such as yourself who is doing something good for the discgolf community by building this awesome par 72 course would come down on this thread as you did.alls were trying to do is find better ways to promote this sport that we both love to play,granted there will be good ideal brought up on thread and yes there will also be bad ideals brought up on this thread.but having no ideals at all would be even worst and making fun of someone for at least trying even worst than that.i hope if i'am ever in your neck of the woods you'll let me play on your awesome course your developing
ps i used spill check this time :p

There has to be PDGA members out there who do Marketing for a living and would either donate some time or at least point out some key points to pursue.

[dscmn]

i was just trying to conjure the image of everyone looking alike, high-fiving on the disc golf course...like the mentos commercials (i love those commercials, those smart-alecky kids!). i happen to think that golf shirts are for ball golf. disc golf has too much flavor to make everyone look alike. i also think that sponsors don't care a bit what people look like, they want to know if half a million viewers are seeing their product logo. wearing them looks to me like a desperate plea for acceptance from the mainstream sponsors.

i'm not one to seriously make fun of people as discgolfpimp implied...only for fun. i make fun of myself so much i may get too carried away. for example, my forehead's so big it's a fivehead. really it is.

i like comedy, i like to laugh. i think i made a point about collared shirts and i don't think i came down on the thread too harshly.

the comedy to which i referred or should i say, "reefered" was that and the monster truck stuff and the awesome sponsorship power that collared shirts were given. as if it was that easy. i should have been more clear.

to add something constructive to the thread, i believe that we try TOO hard with sponsorship and such. we could be spending more time on our own experience with the game and less with its perception to the greater public. we should act like we're on to something spectacular because we are...sponsors will see this. it's the power of hipness and cool. skateboarding has it. even as mainstream as it is, it still has a "i don't give a **** what you think", anti-establishment feel about it. that sells.

"if we build it, they will come." building it to me is: a refined competitive structure, quality events that emphasis a total weekend experience(not just the golf), and insane courses. when is a city going to shut down for the urban disc golf championships? teeing off down broadway?

thanks for talking with me. by the way, i'm wearing a collared shirt and tie right now and i hate it!

[MARKB]

This thread interests me... I am and have been involved in a sport that gets little to no recognition the same as disc golf. I have been playing paintball for 7 years, competetively for 3 years. The thought of a professional paintball player is laughable at best to most, because a lot of people dont know that side of the sport.

In around 1995, paintball was on espn.... it got pulled after a season or so because of a contract violation. It is first now starting to be televised on FSN (Fox Sports Net) and OLN (Outdoor Life Network)... the trouble with paintball had always been filming, and the solution was a change of format... this doesnt help in this discussion but it does show that disc golf is definately not the only sport to have this problem. (media exposure)

Honestly, I think it would be a very good idea for one of the big companies or even the pdga to get in touch with OLN because they have supported paintball so much, and I think it would almost be a great start to get disc golf on tv again. Is it that easy? Definately not, I believe there is a lot that needs to happen to make disc golf more marketable but it is a place to start.

Sure I have only been involved in this sport for about 2 years now but there are just so many simularities to paintball and disc golf when it comes to mainstream. Just to name a few, paintball doesnt have a really good solid set of rules for tournament play, I also believe disc golf rules (pdga rules) need improvement. That is not to say that the current ones are bad, but they are quesitonable and as many would agree are not thorough. If you want to argue stigma... paintball is assosciated with kids running around in the woods playing war, disc golf is a bunch of slacker pot smokers throwing around plastic.

Mainstream exposure will come in time, within the next 10 years I can easily see disc golf just becoming bigger and bigger. Sorry for the long post and thank you for hearing me out... and if something I said doesnt make sense please say something :)

Great post mark!

[warwickdan]

When kids start to go home from school and tell their parents that they want to join the Ultimate team or the DiscSport team or the Disc Golf Club at school or in their town in addition to or instead of playing soccer, baseball, football, etc then at that point the conversations about the growth of the sport and obtaining sponsorship will be very different. Depending where in the country you are, the number of people who have no idea what you are talking about when you start talking about Disc Golf far exceeds the number who know about the sport. Disc Golf is still "young". Although the speed with which information travels is quite different than it was 25, 50 or 100 years ago, there certainly were times in the infancy of other sports like baseball or football when most people had no idea that the sport existed. Look where they are now. Baseball or football in 1890 (or some point way back in time) was akin to Disc Golf in 2000. Energy and money expense at the grassroots level will do more for the growth of our sport than what 99% of our events accomplish.
In my mind that is where sponsorship opportunities and the money we gather should be directed if we want increased growth.

[QUOTE]
Energy and money expense at the grassroots level will do more for the growth of our sport than what 99% of our events accomplish.[QUOTE]


My sentiments exactly.

Kinda like, think globally, act locally.

And I am in marketing...software marketing, and trying to market Disc Golf to companies to extract some of their advertising budget is a quite a bit different than marketing a tourney to you all.

I have a Clock in Tech Support that is made from an old PDGD driver and all the support technicians look at that clock every day...before they worked here, disc golf was a pot smoking hippie activity, now they know it as a legitiate sport and most have given it a try.

If your passionate about wanting this sport to be mainstream,
you must live, eat and breathe disc golf information.

That's Marketing at the "Grass Roots" level.

Let there be disc on earth and let it begin with me....

MS

[MARKB]

When kids start to go home from school and tell their parents that they want to join the Ultimate team or the DiscSport team or the Disc Golf Club at school or in their town in addition to or instead of playing soccer, baseball, football, etc then at that point the conversations about the growth of the sport and obtaining sponsorship will be very different. Depending where in the country you are, the number of people who have no idea what you are talking about when you start talking about Disc Golf far exceeds the number who know about the sport. Disc Golf is still "young". Although the speed with which information travels is quite different than it was 25, 50 or 100 years ago, there certainly were times in the infancy of other sports like baseball or football when most people had no idea that the sport existed. Look where they are now. Baseball or football in 1890 (or some point way back in time) was akin to Disc Golf in 2000. Energy and money expense at the grassroots level will do more for the growth of our sport than what 99% of our events accomplish.
In my mind that is where sponsorship opportunities and the money we gather should be directed if we want increased growth.




That doesnt necessarily have to happen. However it seems like a good idea. This is where the younger disc golfers come in, they have the power to start clubs in high school or college. They can start up intercollegiate or high school tournament matches between schools clubs, they can seek local sponsors easily. The responsibility to get disc golf exposed as a school related sport or club is definately up to the players!

However that is not to say that companies within the industry cant have an instant affect locally... they should approach local schools, colleges in the effort to kick start some of these clubs.

But for a player to start a club, all it takes is one person. One person can make a difference. I started a paintball team/club at my college 2 years ago and it brought in over 20 people half of whom had never played before! We had good rec outtings as well as a group of players that could play well in our college tournaments. Schools such as purdue, U of il, Rutgers, UW whitewater.... fund these clubs as a sport now! So if you have the chance to start something where you live, whether you go to college or high school go for it! It can only be a positive contribution to the sport!

:Dtrue that :D
it would be nice to see this sport as a activity in our local schools :cool:

[MARKB]

Its not like it doesnt exist. There are at least 3 high schools in wisconsin that have at least 9 holes set up somewhere... Plenty of colleges have disc golf courses on campus.... UW platteville, UW parkside both have great courses. The schools with courses most definately have clubs involved as well so its not to say they dont exist. But it could definately be so much more... school team match play ;)

No kidding. Playing ball golf takes bucks and because people pony up the bucks to play ball golf, merchandisers know that these same people also have bucks to spend on other stuff, like cars, watches, booze, and so forth.

So they (the merchandisers) sponsor tournaments and all of a sudden ball golf is "real" and "popular" - not because of the number of people participating, but rather because of the number of dollars being caused to flow.

Sell discs for $200 apiece and charge $1000 to enter a tournament and you'll see the same thing happening to DG as happened to BG.

Of course, that would never happen because the people who play - and enjoy - DG are a different ("better", imo) sort of people than those who swat their tiny little balls with sticks.

So (I knew this was going somewhere) I don't think the comparison between the two sports is valid at all. If DG is to grow, it'll have to grow on its own merits, of which it has plenty, and not because it's "like" some other sport.

Dazzall - back t'werk now.

[MARKB]

Of course, that would never happen because the people who play - and enjoy - DG are a different ("better", imo) sort of people than those who swat their tiny little balls with sticks.






I take offense to that, being a ball golf player for the last 9 years or so. I have met more respectful ball golfers than I have disc golfers. Swatting little balls with sticks is almost harder to do consistantly then throwing a disc. But this kind of argument could go on forever, you have your opinion I have mine lets leave it at that :)

[rhett]

The fact of the matter is that there are a bazillion and a half ball golfers out there right now and only a handful of disc golfers, in comparison.

It doesn't really matter if you are selling $350 fairway woods or $5 X-outs, if you have a bazillion and a half people's attention then Coke, Pepsi, and Nike will be willing to buy those eyeballs.

Let's keep growing! And no, we aren't there yet!

[bapmaster]

Ditto Rhett. A hundred years ago the money in golf didn't compare to what it is today. And a hundred years ago the sport was still significantly more tenured than disc golf is today.

The good news is that disc golf is going to grow faster than golf ever did, or will, simply by virtue of the era in which we live. So, even though I'm in the game purely for the fun and competition, I can still look forward to the day when I can come home from church on Sunday afternoon and plop down with a beer to watch those damned youngsters playing for more money than I'll see in my lifetime.

On second thought, screw that. This sport will never be better than it is today. Let me try to go broke making my way around to play disc golf with the best golfers in the world. Let me beg for vacation days at the last minute, and survive the smirks and rolled eyes when I say I'm piling in a car with 2 other guys to take an 11 hour trip to waste my money. Better yet, let me struggle around the pitch and putt course across the street, trying to figure out how to make the damned putter stay in the basket, while people honk and scream from their cars driving down the Riverside Raceway on their way home from work to "let the cable wash over them." I'm in the 99.5th ( :p) percentile of the world as it is, and I enjoy that. I'm not making money doing it, and there are only a handful that are, but I'm still having more fun in the rain in the middle of February fishing my disc out of the creek than most people will ever know. I hope there are lots more people out there that get to experience it, and I hope I'm there when they do, but money isn't going to change this sport, at least not for the better.

I'd better stop now, or I'll be here all night. I've got to go throw newspaper hyzers in about 4 hours, and I can already hear my alarm going off. I can feel a good day coming right now; I'm going to hit every porch (93 years old my [*****]; I saw your [*****] mowing the lawn last fall, and you can't walk to the end of the driveway?). Here's to finding a little fun in the everyday grind. :D

[johnbart20852]

it just hit me!!! i have an awesome idea that probably wouldn't work.. a pdga/pga challenge!!
ken climo vs. tiger woods
barry schultz/ vijay singh
on a fly 18 course... of course the scales are a bit tipped towards the golfers but what 2 pros would you rather see take on tiger and vijay??
all the money going to a charity.. maybe the lance armstrong foundation.. then there would be some tv time!!!
ps. i'd actually make it a team competition with pros and masters/grandmasters vs. pga pros and seniors... that would be phenominal..