jump putts

I have a question, if you do a jump putt do you release the disc before your feet leave the ground? and if you don't is it a stance violation, that what I get from reading rule 803.03.

[bruce_brakel]

If you do a jump putt you release with your feet in the air. Otherwise it would be a putt jump. And yes, it is a stance violation.

and you must be at least 10 meters from the basket. one of these days if i get a 30 footer up hill from the basket im gonna run and jump to try and slam dunk it in. what ya thing bout that?

[slo]

RULE: 803.03 STANCE, Subsequent to Teeing Off
A. When the disc is released, a player must:
(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc.

I like to call that 30 cm line the 'golden segment', and anything closer to the basket [an area which is always circular, not just anything 'past' the marker] the 'red zone'...essentially the same as ob.

I personally don't like this rule; it punishes athleticism. Too much like a B/S golf carryover for my liking. But as it stands, "jumping" outside 10m is fine if you have that supporting point on the golden segment during release.

Sweeney pointed out that you can still "jump" within 10 m, it just has to be either sideways, or OVER the basket and out of the red zone [!!].

I'm wondering if this rule might be descended from Steady vs. Stork, al la the 10 meter rule [that's the myth, anyways].

and you must be at least 10 meters from the basket. one of these days if i get a 30 footer up hill from the basket im gonna run and jump to try and slam dunk it in. what ya thing bout that?



I think that would be a stance violation since 30' is well under 10m.

[slo]

Not if he jumped over the basket, and 30+ feet past...

[gang4010]

Point of release varies with the thrower. I've seen it both ways. But basic mechanics yield the best control with a foot still on the ground (it's a timing thing).

The jump putt I developed years ago was more of a lunge (used from 70-80' away) and I was never questioned as to whether my foot was on the ground. I guess a little video would be very telling. If in fact your foot leaves the ground before you release - it would technically be a foot fault.

I think it has come into question more recently because a number of players feel the need to jump from right outside the 10 meter line - bringing into question their foot placement.

[stevemaerz]

While I know this may draw a lot of fire from all you jump putters out there, but I really think we need to have a rule that specifically addresses jump putting and calling foot faults on jump putters.
I first saw "jump putting" used by Mitch McClleland at Laurel Springs back in 1993 he reffered to it as a frog putt.His version seemed benign as a simple hop after release to gain a little power on putts outside 60ft.However I see far too many players today aggressively jumping forward and releasing after launching into the air.While this is definitely a foot fault, I have yet to see it called (and no I haven't called it either because it can be a tough and controversial call to make).I have to say it looks unprofessional and reminds me of the duffers you see that fall putt on every putt outside 5ft.
Personally I think deliberate jump putting should be oulawed. If you're 300 ft out on your approach you may want a runup and stepping past your lie is understandable AFTER RELEASE but from 30 -40ft no one needs a runup. Okay jump putt lovers...fire away, let me have it.

[rhett]

I guess a little video would be very telling. If in fact your foot leaves the ground before you release - it would technically be a foot fault.



Gee, ya think? Your choice of words makes it sound like you are dismissing the severity of the foot fault call. That certainly calls your ethics on the course into question in my mind. Considering how you question the motivation of players who follow the actual rules on the tee pad, Craig, I am quite surprised at this apparent cavalier attitude towards foot placement on putts by you. Technically? How about "absolutely".

I would expect any self-righteous nit-picker to actually film their own questionable stances to ensure compliance with the INTENT of the stance rule. Not doing so because your personal jump putts might be illegal is cheating.

Rules don't call themselves, and nobody is going to call them on you. Make sure you follow them yourself.


:) :) :)

[gang4010]

Rhett - no need to be an ***** - but if the shoe fits. (There's some bait back at ya :) )

Perhaps if I actually USED a jump putt with any frequency - I'd be more concerned about myself. As I stated - my style never got so much as a comment questioning my foot placement. Also - I stated that it has become more of a concern recently due to the condition Steve noted above. People who insist on jump putting from 32'9" are more apt to be judged as violating stance rules than someone like myself who only ever used this shot from 60, 80, 100 feet away. Not much of an advantage to be gained there.

Funny how folks such as yourself assume all people who jump putt commit stance violations - while at the same time assume all people who tee from off the tee accomplish having all their "supporting points" within the tee area. Both are rather distinct skills. I think you should go out and actually watch what people do - and learn more about basic throwing mechanics. Things that I have learned playing all over the world for the past 16 years include:
1) Most people have both feet in contact with the ground when they tee off. 2) The same cannot be said for putting
3) Jump putt styles vary widely - and not that many people use them.

Rhett: Your choice of words makes it sound like you are dismissing the severity of the foot fault call.

You forget Rhett - I am one of the 5 people nationwide who actually MAKE foot fault calls - unlike the majority of people out there so concerned about affecting their own game - they'd rather not make ANY calls.

Rhett - That certainly calls your ethics on the course into question in my mind.
How so? I'd be happy to explain my use of the word in another thread - as you obviously don't understand the reference.

Rhett - Craig, I am quite surprised at this apparent cavalier attitude towards foot placement on putts by you.

My attitude towards stance is anything but cavalier. When was the last foot fault you called? I can tell you mine :) But alas - it was on a tee shot (and had nothing to do with the back foot).

Rhett - I would expect any self-righteous nit-picker to actually film their own questionable stances to ensure compliance with the INTENT of the stance rule. Not doing so because your personal jump putts might be illegal is cheating.

Self righteous? OK whatever. Nit Picker - occasionally. I prefer passionate about a few pet peeves. This just isn't one of them. Why? - few people actually use the jump putt (whereas EVERYBODY tees off on every hole). The intent of the stance rule for play on the course is very clear - apparently the same cannot be said for the teepad.

Not filming myself because my personal jump putts might be illegal is cheating. Are you that super stretchy guy from the Fantastic 4?? Cause that one is waaaaay out there. Rhett, your bait is good - reminds me of a chicken liver I left out in the sun all afternoon - mmmmmmmmm good. Catches fish - but it smells real bad - and it's tough to get it to stay on the hook, or even pick up for that matter.

[discette]

Rhett said:


Your choice of words makes it sound like you are dismissing the severity of the foot fault call.



I thought the same thing too, Craig. Why would someone be sooooo concerned with foot faults on the tee, but not on the jump putt? And since when was it necessary to have made a call to understand the rule?

Clarifier: I have called foot faults AND my back foot is off the ground when I drive!!!!

[rhett]

I guess you missed my paraphrasing of your string of posts from the teepad thread, Craig. :)

But you did bite nicely.

[gang4010]

I thought the same thing too, Craig. Why would someone be sooooo concerned with foot faults on the tee, but not on the jump putt? And since when was it necessary to have made a call to understand the rule?

Pet peeve does not equal soooooooo concerned guys. It means pet peeve - i.e. it's always bothered me and still does - it doesn't otherwise occupy all my waking thoughts :)

Clarifier: I have called foot faults AND my back foot is off the ground when I drive!!!!

[/QUOTE]

Discette - how far do you throw? I bet I could teach you to throw further by keeping your back foot on the ground :)

[thcplz]

what up jason???

[discette]

I throw 325', Craig. I am always available for private lessons from such an established pro like yourself. :cool:
Let me know when you will be in Minnesota.

[gang4010]

I'll be sure to do that :) Minnesota is a place I've yet to play - but I keep hearing good things - so who knows? Bound to happen eventually.

[pterodactyl]

It is extremely unnatural to release the disc while your body is in the air while jump putting. My release on the jump putt happens simultaneously with my push off. It gives the player the impetus for a little extra forward momentum. It should be called the "putt-jump" since it pretty much happens in that order when done correctly. Just go outside and try to hit a putt while you are in the air. It is very difficult and gives you absolutely no mechanical advantage.

[MTL21676]

my random thoughts on jump putts

i can think of 4 jump putts I've hit in 10 years of playing...

2 of them were in the backyard, 1 in cash doubles, and 1 casually

I may be the worst jump putter of all time

I have a very funny straddle jump putt that always brings people to laughter

Right before I decide to jump putt I think why did I throw a shot so far away to make me do this

I saw Snoop hit ajump putt from the bottom of the ditch on number 2 at renny....the only putt ive ever seen from that was Barry Shultz at cedar Hills in Raleigh at the 2003 Crosstown. He hit like a 60 footer from some pretty tight woods....and of course it was a straddle

MY buddy Eddie OG gets ****** when he doesn't make a jump in a PDGA at some point

That was my random thoughts on jump putting

[gang4010]

Thankyou pterodactyl - that was my point exactly when I said jump putt styles vary widely. On only a few occasions have I seen someone obviously release a disc after the foot left the ground.

[Chris Hysell]

Jump putts are funny.

[pterodactyl]

It would be nice to be able to remove debris in front of your lie when jump-putting. Ya know, safety first.

[dannyreeves]

why cant you? if they arent attached, what is wrong with it?

[magilla]

why cant you? if they arent attached, what is wrong with it?



RULE: 803.04 OBSTACLES & RELIEF
B. Obstacles Between the Lie and Hole: A player may not move, alter, bend, break, or hold back any part of any obstacle between the lie and the hole, with one exception. A player may move obstacles between the lie and the hole that became a factor during the round, such as spectators, players' equipment, open gates, or branches that fell during the round. Where it is not known if an obstacle has become a factor during a round, it shall not be moved. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to make incidental movement of an obstacle.
;)

WFDF- Article 1 - General 102 Spirit of the Rules......"Highly competitive and committed play is encouraged, but never at the expense of the bond of mutual respect between players, adherence to the agreed upon rules of any event, or the basic enjoyment of play. Protection of these vital elements serves to eliminate adverse conduct from the playing field. The responsiblility for the maintenance of this spirit rests on each player's shoulders". To many attitudes, not enough spirit of the game! peace to you and courtesy rules! World Flying Disc Federation (WFDF) <font color="black"> </font> a hacker in Minnesnowta

[pterodactyl]

FBFP: What does this have to do with jump putts?...just curious.

[Jake L]

Hey, here's some fuel for the fire. I have two pictures of jump putts on this website. www.oakhollowdgc.com (http://www.oakhollowdgc.com/photos3.htm)

The first one is the fourth picture down on the left, You make the call.

The second shot of a jump putt is the bottom, middle picture, the disc is not visible in the shot (sorry).

Large photos, dial-up beware!

[neonnoodle]

Jump Putts - Illegal, make the call.

Putt Jumps - Legal, enjoy the show.

Drives with a points of contact outside the teepad - Illegal, make the call.

Drives with all points of contact within the teepad - Legal, enjoy the show.

I see no basis for discussion here at all.

[nicholson5150]

:D

Jump putts Legal!
(legal ones) are one of the most beautiful ans amazing aspects of our sport to see! Why stop them?

Make Them!

Theoretically, if you applied a No falling or jump putt rule all the way out, you would wind up back at the Tee.

What then? Sorry no Ace, you followed through on your shot and crossed the Tee line? IMHO that would take a lot of fun out of the game.

J

[Chris Hysell]

Sorry Moriarti, if there was no follow through allowed, everyone would learn to stand still and throw. Then maybe people would actually throw from behind their mini, not just in the vicinity.

[neonnoodle]

Jump putts are illegal. Putt Jumps are legal outside 10 meters. 'Dem's the rules.

And Chris, even with no follow through, don't you think your point of release is often infront of your lie? Particularly on putts...

[Chris Hysell]

Point of release, support point, angle of the dangle, OB, height penalty. Pick something to argue about and I will.

[neonnoodle]

I'd be satisfied with a simple yes or no...

[Chris Hysell]

I would say it is hardly ever behind your lie and quite often never in line with your mini and the basket. Will you hug me again this weekend? Only frontal please, none of that brotherly love hugging from behind.

[neonnoodle]

What? You guys don't have same sex marriages in VA?

You know what would solve all of this, don't you? If we just left the disc lie and hit it with some kind of club... /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

That or followed the rules we already have.

What? You guys don't have same sex marriages in VA?


sorry to say we do in calif :(
i thought this was a thread about jump putting :eek:

[Chris Hysell]

It's the same thread. Jump putts are *** and unnecessary.

[Chris Hysell]

I really don't have anything against jump putts. I just get tired of those idiots that have to ask if they are outside of 10 meters all the time. Why don't they know how far they are away? That's one of the reasons that I ask on the rare occasion that I'm going to try to jump putt. It's a joke because they are usually putts around 150ft.

got ya
i find it hard enough to putt without jumping myself,seems like work to me

[eddie_ogburn]

People ask because they don't want to have a discrepancy and get called for anything. Better safe than sorry.

[jefferson]

i only ask "am i outside" if i am outside 80 or inside 15

[eddie_ogburn]

You dont count. You're "special" jeffy.

[neonnoodle]

True, but you should be certain before you throw anyway. I'm just going to eye it or step it off from now on without asking anyone. If they want to call me, fine, we'll measure it afterwards. No need to get Chris' panties in a bunch. (Shiver! Dry Retch!) :o:eek: /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif :D :p

[Jake L]

I see no basis for discussion here at all.



:confused:

[neonnoodle]

Sup Fool!



:confused:

One of my favorite putts of all time was falling into a small pond. While playing doubles at Dela, my partner put a roller out past the goal posts and into a casual pond just before the last blocking pine outside the green. We took the lie behind where the disc went in. About 90 feet short of the pin. The only way to mkae it was to fall forward pushing the disc under the big branch that hangs across, and that put me right in the drink on the foloow thorugh. I made the putt though, that was juts last winter and I'm sorry to sat that tree fell just a few days ago :(

Look forward to a different 16 @ Dela for the Masters. Not easier, not the same.

J

[mdgnome]

I know this is kinnda off the topic(well alot),but is there a min or max regulation size for tee pads?

no.

[neonnoodle]

Check here for recommended standards: PDGA Course Design (http://www.pdga.com/makecrse.php)


Hard surface tee pads of textured cement or asphalt are preferred. Preferred size is 6 ft wide by at least 12 ft long (1.8x3m). Maximum size is 6 ft wide by 20 ft long with the back end flaring out to 10 feet wide. If you need to conserve materials, make tee pads shorter on short or downhill holes and longer on long holes. For example, a hard surfaced tee pad at the top of a hill on a short hole might only need to be 8 ft long because players will just stand at the front edge of the tee to make their throws.



With the new PDGA Course Ratings System coming out soon (3 to 6 months), and these ratings being included in future PDGA Course Directories, course pros would do well to get their courses up to par if they want the best possible rating so folks include their courses when planning a trip.