Tee Signs - what Types/Location/Info do you have at your course [Archive]

Dec 07 2000, 12:46 PM

We "reconditioned" and expanded our old 1980 course recently. We recycled 5 of the old fasioned but surprisingly durable galvanized post/galvanized frames, (12x18 inch). We designed and put new signs into the frames. The signs are white powder coated aluminum with adhered thin (nylon? plastic? i don't know what it is) graphic overlay material. About 1/3 to 1/2 of each sign is devoted to showing the hole #, the par, and the distance from each tee to each pin placement. The distances are color coded - blue for long, red for short. The remainder of the sign is a full color graphic of the fairway, obstacles and out-of bounds. Keep it simple. Dont show every individual insignificant bush. Show the landmarks and significant obstacles. Its mainly for oreintation.

For the remaining tee areas where we could not recycle the poles/frames; we installed green treated 8 foot long wood posts (5x6 inches) THese are buried 3 feet deep with 5 feet sticking out. (No concrete required.) We then bolted green treated wood plates (2x12) to the posts (18 inch lengths) and then bolted the signs (same as described earlier) to the wood plates. Every sign is covered with a 1/4 inch thick plexiglass (it may be 3/8 - anyway its pretty heavy duty stuff).

Each of these signs is planted near the front of each short position tee pad and turned parallel with the hole. Where possible, we put the sign on the side of tee pad where it would be most visible from the previous basket. There is at least 5 feet between the pad and the sign.

Each sign shows clearly where the short tee pad is (although that's obvious, - if you'e reading the sign, your literally standing on the short tee pad) and the location of the long tee pad.

Each long pad has a "low tech" sign. Adjacent to each long pad is a 4 foot long green treated post (5x6) buried 2 feet in the ground. Each has a 2x10 green treated wood sign plate bolted onto the post. We used blue paint (stencils) to indicate the hole number, the par, and the distance from the long pad to each pin placement.

I think our nice signs will have a life of 20 years. The low tech signs will need repainting/restenciling after 5. Otherwise its all maintenece free - AND VERY TOUGH!

Cost: Professional aluminum signs: $35
5x6 green treated 8 foot post: $15
5x6 green treeted 4 foot post: $7.50
Wood Plates : Couple bucks a piece or less.
Hardware: Buck a sign
Plexiglass : ? we had ours donated, I guess $4 or 5 a piece.

My suggestions. DON'T use the thin galvanized poles with the small 8x10 galvanized frames that are availble from some of the disc golf suppliers. A 12 year old can bend the pole and rip off the frame easily. (I know of a new course that looks 10 years old from the damage done to these wimpy little things). DONT use paint or wood facing for permanent signs. DONT use 4x4 wood posts. They may seem subtantial, but they are breakable by vandals. (The 5x6 or 6x6 posts require a car to break - they're darn near railroad ties.) DO use plexiglass.

Dec 07 2000, 03:40 PM

At Timmons Park in Greenville, SC. the park dept wanted to stay with something that they are equipt to replace quickly if vandalized. We have brown signs (about the same size as a speed limit sign out on the road) mounted to a 4x4 post with lag bolts. The signs are pretty basic and give the hole#, distance, and par for the hole with an arrow pointing in the general direction of the target. If the hole is a dogleg right, the arrow bends to the right and vice versa for a left dogleg. We also have red arrow signs stuck on trees pointing you in the right direction for the next tee near the basket. Another good idea is to have small vinyl red arrows on the yellow band (If your baskets are Innova Discatchers) pointing you to the next tee. On Mach lll's, you can put the arrow on the number plate. The course in Chapin SC. has some real nice signs with great graphics of the hole layout with small hooks to hang your bags and trash cans mounted on the back. These are great signs but are very costly, and can get real expensive replacing them when vandalized. Basic information is all you really need, and is more cost effective in the long run if you decide to move the course around some time down the road. Signs are a must! Nothing is more frustrating for an out of town player trying to search for the next tee their first time playing the course.

Dec 08 2000, 12:11 PM

One thing that I've seen done (but they are not vandal proof) to point to the next tee is hang a little sign on the proper spoke of the basket. Where I saw it done it was done with just paper laminated in clear plastic tape, but it was very effective. A cheap way of doing it (need a printer, paper and some clear tape, about $3 to do a whole course) and they last about 1-2 months and could just be fixed/replaced when moving the baskets. Total of about 30 seconds at each basket.

Dec 09 2000, 12:10 AM

Scribe & paint an arrow on the anchor pad pointing to the next tee also works if the tee isn't too far away.

You can also put a log lined path from the target to the next tee as well as from tees through brush to the open fairway areas. Directing traffic around the course to well defined corridors helps players find their way as well as helps preserve foliage from trampling.

There's more to an making an easily followed course than tee signs. While tee signs help, many courses don't flow smoothly enough to make tee signs of much use since you might never find them.

Having found a tee sign doesn't mean you can see easily the target from the tee. How many times have you been a course newbie and found yourself at a tee staring off into the distance looking for a target that can't be seen by the naked eye from the tee even using the tee sign until you've played the hole?

This gets even more complicated and obtuse in par four layouts where you really can't see the target from the tee.

In many ways, having a course map at the start of the course is probably as effective as anything. It's also easy to 'sell' advertizing on the map.

Always, Fred C

Dec 09 2000, 07:49 AM

I think distance markers are overdue in our sport. They should be recommended in the PDGA's Course Design guidelines and used consistently whenever possible. Long doglegs or undefined fairways are very difficult to navigate without proper markings. I believe using 100' distance markers alongside the fairways (like 4' tall 4"x4" in ground posts) would lead new players and provide reference to experienced locals for alternate pin locations. It would also put to rest any '500 ft. average driving distance' controversy.

Dec 09 2000, 07:28 PM

At the USDGC, all holes had distance flags(to the pin)along the fairway. The Worlds also provided a sweet guide of all the courses.

Dec 10 2000, 01:32 AM

Distance is irrelevant on technical courses where there are lots of curved fairways to negociate. A strong 200 foot dogleg might take as much effort as a 350 foot straight line drive. Knowing that it's 100 or 200 feet to a window of a dogleg helix isn't likely to help much.

Throwing a disc is much more a feel thing, sort of like shooting a basketball. You don't need to know it's a 10, 12 or 15 foot shot, you just do it, with or without the lines on the ground for reference.

DG isn't like ball golf where you've got clubs for specific distances. Pick a 7 iron, make your usual hit and the ball goes 150 yards give or take 5 yards.

Yes, various discs have a range where they are most effective, but that range and disc throwing technique isn't anywhere as well defined as clubs in ball golf.

What helps in DG is having something of recognizable reference on the course to help one get the feel for how far or close it is to a target to hit or window to fly thru.

Knowing it's 80 yards to get around some 300 foot tall 30 foot wide redwood tree won't help until you can convince yourself that that huge tree is really 240 feet away. Otherwise, you'll probably think it's 200 feet or less away.

morgan

Dec 10 2000, 08:12 AM

Don't use plexiglass on signs. Go to a glass shop and and ask for polycarbonate sheets. It looks like plexiglass but it's 1000 times stronger, basically unbreakable. You can hammer a nail through it and it won't break. It's the same stuff they use for lenses in industrial safety glasses, and it's the same stuff that CD's are made from. Ever try to break a CD? They don't break. Plexiglass is the crap that CDjewel cases are made from, they always break.

Polycarbonate is more expensive than plexiglass but worth it.

Dec 10 2000, 05:53 PM

I disagree with Dr. Fred. I have a major problem with judging distances. Although the actual number doesn't mean much to me, when I go to a new course and see 270' I relate that number to a certain hole at a course I play often. I basically tell myself "This hole is just like hole X at Riverside" Then pick my disc and make the shot.
I'm slowly becoming more familiar with my shots at certain distances so that I don't have to relate back to a familiar hole. Like I said before though my problem is judging the distance with my own eyes. I will often make a shot and then wish I used a driver instead of a midrange disc.

Dec 11 2000, 12:02 PM

Definitely. Incorrect yardage on tee signs crosses me up the first time through.

Dec 13 2000, 02:50 PM

Thanks for the info so far.

Jun 25 2001, 02:23 PM

Photo tee signs, as stolen from K.C. WaterWorks, and now used in Des Moines, can be found at:
http://www.poorputterbrewery.com in the Frisbee Golf section.

Not necessarily the coolest, most-professional, ball-golf looking signs ever, but I think they contain all of the info a player would need.

Thanks,
rodney

Jun 26 2001, 12:25 AM

Everything but the elevation changes like they have at Veteran's. By the way, nice guessing Ft. Worth DGers. Seriously, what did you guys do to measure those?

willyc

Jun 26 2001, 09:08 AM

Ex-ADGA'er Randy Wimm measured them for us. Before he became message board famous he was a surveyor. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Jun 26 2001, 10:09 AM

Clue, you are right, I don't have elevation in there. That'd be cool, but luckily, it's rather unnecessary at Walnut Ridge. (By the way, the stupid Rec par I have listed on each sign is kind of dumb. I may change them to list several differnt pars, I don't know.)

Wimm did the elevation thing at Veterans? Cool, finally a reason to like the guy.

rodney

Jun 26 2001, 06:45 PM

The horizontal and vertical distances at Veterans are laser shot within an eight of an inch. No big deal with an $18,000 instrument. It took two people less than two hours. Sure would like to shoot Aspen. Maybe some day the PDGA can buy a used total station and send it around the country. I better go with it to make sure everything is done right.

Jun 26 2001, 11:30 PM

Laminated signs work fine for a start.

I'd suggest buying a laminator and doing it yourself if you've got the resources as there are lots of uses for laminated signs (tee signs, ads, rules, club cards, etc).

Rodney's idea of using a photo for the tee sign is very interesting. If you print the tee sign out with a laser printer in black and white, it probably wouldn't fade. Some print drivers and laser printers do a credible job of printing black and white these days.

Another minor point, tee signs tend to be easily vandalized by the dim bulbs that frequent some parks. So it's better that the tee signs are vandalized than the targets. The tee signs can be the canary telling when there are dim bulbs around.

Jun 27 2001, 12:21 AM

Interesting that you bring the vandals up because Rodney and I were just commenting that when we had black hole numbers on a white background that some tracheal impaired youths seemed to want to make every hole # 420 and maybe mix in some pictures to boot, but when Rodney did the pictures and just taped them on the signs nobody has touched them. That may be some sort of record for the longest sentence ever written on here.

orotter

Mar 21 2002, 09:17 AM

Help! How can I mark natural tees that are going to be mowed over with one of those 40' swath tractors? I'm trying to figure out how to make the next tee visible without interfering with the mower or getting my tee markers chewed up. I have plastic markers flush with the ground and orange flags right now but the flags will have to go once mowing starts. The flush markers aren't visible until you get pretty close so you have to know where they are. I want people to be able to find their way around the course the first time.

orotter

Mar 21 2002, 11:22 AM

I think I may have found my own answer. I don't know how these things work but they sound great. Check out these mow-over stakes.

http://www.flexstake.com/golfcourse.htm

Mar 21 2002, 11:43 AM

Inasmuch as the topic has been resurrected, here's a late entry:
Course: Bengal Ridge, Pocatello, ID (http://pdga.com/courses_by_city.php?id=191)
Kind of signs: plastic sandwiched between two metal layers--I think one commercial name for the stuff is alumalite. A vinyl layer is applied to one side with the info on it. Each sign is attached to a treated 4x4 post with 2 lag screws. 10"x14"
How would we redesign them: We are still installing them.
Vandalism: None since last fall. Easy to replace.
What they show: Key terrain features and obstacles, line-of-site distance to the hole, elevation change, target and tee positions, par.
One at each tee pad: Yes.
We design each one, local sign shop produces them for about $24.00 each with an abrasion- and UV-resistant coating.
Where to plant: A safe distance from the pad, in a position to help new folks find the pad, facing the target.
Length: "as the crow flies." I.e., straight from pad to target. Local university surveying club did a great measuring job.

A sample (http://pvdgc.org/img/2a.jpg) is posted on our web site.

Jun 03 2003, 10:25 PM

East Wake Middle School in Raleigh, NC has natural tee areas that are marked with cinder blocks. The blocks are buried so that less than 1" sticks above the ground (the flat side). They were painted white with spray paint, then the hole #'s were brushed on the left side, then the distance and par were brushed on the right side. I suggest that you bury them ~10-15 feet apart so that the grass doesn't become eroded. . .

Jun 18 2003, 04:53 PM

At Delaveage the Sign Frame and Posts were purchased from DGA
http://www.discgolfassoc.com/

They will also produce metal painted signs for the frames similar to topo. ball golf signs.

I created ours using Adobe (aldus) Freehand on 8.5 x 11. Next to that there is room for another 8.5 x 11 sign for a sponsor. DDGC charges sponsors an annual fee- which helps pay for garbage service, porta potty and things like that.

I make the signs out of my own pocket. The only compensation i received was some waived fee's by the club, in yeras gone by, and Ed Hedrick himself called my T-sgns "works of art" as they were all custom made n by hand with actual course detail. *Most stock signs are vague topographic representations.

The orginal desigs took over 60 hours to produce (27 holes) and 10 hours in printing alone. If you use a Laser printer you will get much better, lasting results, as lasers use bonded mylar inks which will out last most of the paper they are printed on. They are also UV resitent. (The ink jet signs turn psychadelic in Winter due to running water based inks)

The other advantage to creating your own signs from digital media is that updates can be done to accomodate new tee/pin positions, or downed trees at minimal reproduction costs. (which reminds me - I have signs to re-do.

Orginally the signs had a plexi-glass back and Lexan over the top that was donated to the club.

All in all the lexan lasted pretty well, but over time many of the signs, and the frames have been vandalized.

Much less though than our previous ground mounted sigs, which were absolutely gorgeous, and much more a work of art than anything I ever did, but because they were at kicking level, or rolling level- they got destroyed in less than a year. It was very sad.

I think in the long run the pole/frame system from DGA works best and look durable enough to discourage vandalism, but I would figure on-going maitinance into what ever scheme you use.

*Stancil Johnson of the Frisbbe book provided distances that he walked off with one of those roller thingys? Recently GPS has shown the orginal measuremnets to be fairly accurate, but I understand the GPS is falable up to 10 feet.

JS

ching_lizard

Jun 19 2003, 12:20 AM

John - good post! One of our locals, Richard Rasch is doing a fair number of course maps using the arial photos available on Map Quest (I think) so that trees are actually in their true locations. He converts this over to an outline of a sorts and then we use them for course maps. You are correct in that it seems really cool to have the trees in their precise locations...of course having a good map still doesn't prevent me from driving right into them though! /msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

Jun 19 2003, 11:08 AM

We just started mounting our signs to used telephone poles. 3 feet into ground and cut a 60 degree angle on the top at slightly above hip height, and then mounted a 3/4 treated plywood slightly smaller then the sign for a backer. Let me say, they are solid and look very sharp. We had a problem with people ripping the post right out of the ground and throwing the sign w/post out in some rough or to another hole. I really don't think that these 200 pound poles are going to be yanked.

John, if you know anyone that does surveying work, there is a GPS instrument called the "total station." It is accurate to an 1/8" at about 500ft.

Jun 19 2003, 11:17 AM

Just read Randy's message after I posted... I would also be willing to travel around for a fee to check course's for the PDGA. I was pricing them a few months back and they only cost around 25,000 with software.

Jun 19 2003, 02:01 PM

In tahoe we have multiple pin placements for every hole. The holes are markes a,b,c...on the tee sign. Then we use a small metal dial with letters stamped on it that can be loosened and spun to what ever pin placement you want(we use wooden posts). When you walk up, you look at the dial and you know what hole to shoot to. If your using a GPS unit to do distances, a total station is the only way to go. Smaller, less expensive units are effected by trees, hills, the number of hits per point that you take and the geometry of the satillites. They can be up to 20m off very easily.

Jun 19 2003, 03:06 PM

I think a 'total station' is a surveying tool that uses a laser not GPS. A GPS survey setup using a 'Base station' for either RTK or Post Processing is what you might be talking about.

GPS after post processing should get you under 5 feet on any given hole under decent conditions. In my opinion that is good enough for Disc Golf Teesigns.

Jun 19 2003, 03:10 PM

Although after a quick stop over at Trimbles website I see they have something they call a 'GPS Total Station'. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

bigchiz

Jun 19 2003, 04:49 PM

If there are already signs in your park, I suggest making tee signs that match the signage already in the park, for aesthetic reasons.

This tee sign (http://nebdisc.7host.com/pics/teesign.jpg) was made by creating a scaled drawing of the hole using mapquest.com (http://www.mapquest.com) and clicking on the aerial view button. The drawing was done in Corel Draw, laser printed on 11"x17" and laminated. It is sandwiched between a white enamled aluminum sheet ($6) and lexan ($13) on the front. This is mounted in a 12"x18" rectangle created with 1" angle iron, zinc dipped at Lincoln Plating (plating company used by Harley Davidson). The lexan, graphic, and aluminum are sandwiched on with acorn nuts to prevent injury. The assembly is mounted to 3"x5" landscape timber ($4), 6' long, using carriage bolts. The seam of the frame is on the bottom. The top is cut to an angle so snow and ice run off away from the sign. The post is 2' in the ground, held with cement ($5). The post is at least 4' away from the back of the tee pad, and the sign front can be viewed from the tee pad and from the previous basket.

The posts were cut to size at home, and even pre-drilled. We put a number on the post to know which hole to put it at, since the frames varied slighlty.

For our next batch of new signs, the bracket on the top and bottom will be eliminated. A hole in the frame will suffice for the carriage bolts.

These have been on the course for nearly a year, and the laser print is doing better than expected, it has hardly faded.

Jun 19 2003, 05:34 PM

The tremble total stations are the ones that fit into a backpack and have the large antenna with the white thing on top. These are very acuurate and expensive. I use a geo explorer 3 which is the cheaper model ($3500). You can program the standartd deviation so that it will only take points within a certain error ratio. The smaller units don't have this so use must do it yourself. With the units that have real time positioning just stand in one place and look at the UTM's. Average out the numbers over a two to three minute period. With units that don't have real time positioning you have to keep pushing the button to get different UTM's. These smaller units can be just as accurate as the larger ones, they just don't know what junk data is and the larger ones due.

ching_lizard

Jun 20 2003, 08:18 AM

Andrew Chisholm: Good looking sign! How hard is that thing to change out? We sell "permanent" tee signs to Texas States tee sponsors every year and so we have a need to swap them out almost every year. It has been suggested that we develop a two-part sign. One part has the hole distances and flight path map thing, the other has the tee sponsor stuff. Anyone else having to deal with that too?

Thanks too for all of the approximate pricing info...we're gonna have to take a look at using that Lexan instead of plexiglass. The plexi stuff weathers and turns pretty brittle in the Texas sun... /msgboard/images/clipart/sad.gif (It also gets a little cloudy looking...)

Anyone else got some links to some photos?

anita

Jun 20 2003, 10:13 AM

Ching-

It would depend on what you had to use to screw the signs to the posts. We used just a regular hex head bolt with a cap end through the post (see Andrew's picture). You can use lock-tight on them to discourage (but not totally prevent) vandalism. Lock-tight comes in various strengths from "never gonna budge" to "moderately tough to remove". You can pop the "moderately difficult" lock-tight seal with a good size wrench or socket.

The lexan is a needed expense. The plexiglass just doesn't last between the rock throwers and the sun.

Jun 20 2003, 12:26 PM

A total station is made for "Digital Terrain Mapping" not only can it shoot distances, it can store all the points relative to each other and produce a 3-D map.I OWN A NIKON DTM Total Station. IT can shoot 3000' accurate to 1/10th inch. It would be nice to map some of the courses across the U.S.

bigchiz

Jun 20 2003, 02:56 PM

Ching, as for changing out the the artwork, it's just four screws. Pop off the lexan, then you have easy access to removing the 11x17 laminated paper.

We are not planning on adding new sponsors, but more ground sleeves is scheduled in the next year.

Jun 20 2003, 05:05 PM

I just finished this map (http://www.jbptech.net/wpdg/img/coursemap-200306.png) and these tee signs (http://www.jbptech.net/wpdg/img/teesigns/) for a tournament at our local state park course (http://www.jbptech.net/wpdg/) this weekend. We're planning on refining the teesigns and eventually mounting them permanently. We've been wondering exactly how to do that, but the recent posts sound like they have all the details we need... thanks!

keithjohnson

Jun 20 2003, 06:56 PM

By Ching Lizard on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 05:18 am:
It has been suggested that we develop a two-part sign. One part has the hole distances and flight path map thing, the other has the tee sponsor stuff. Anyone else having to deal with that too?

fountain hills just added tee signs with sponsors on one side and map of hole on the other..looks good and can be changed for new sponsors if not renewed

Anyone else got some links to some photos?

i can email you the one of lorelei's tee sign at the fountain if you want to see it...keith

ching_lizard

Jun 20 2003, 08:31 PM

Heck yeah Keith! Send it to me at: Larry Kruse (lkruse@swbell.net)

Jay Parker: Good looking signage...I know that stuff takes a ton of time to put together. Ours have to have some sponsor names on them though...it's one of our benefits for tee box sponsors. Some don't change from year to year, but others will need to change. It would be great to have something where the map is permanent but the sponsor part is swappable annually. Thanks for the shots of your work!

Jun 20 2003, 10:34 PM

Anyone using Corel Draw-- What do you use for trees and shrubs on your teesigns? I cheesed out and distorted some vector clouds and then filled them in with a green color. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Jun 24 2003, 06:39 PM

Greg: I've tried several things. What I really want is something that will draw a "bumpy" outline down a vector path, but I haven't found it yet. I'm using a free program called "xfig", so I don't have much experience with the more advanced features in Corel Draw, Adobe Illustrator, etc. For the course map I linked to in a previous post, I actually drew hundreds of filled-in, no-outline, overlapping circles to get the effect I was looking for. I didn't have time to do that for all the tee signs yet, so those are lumpy looking bezier curves.

Larry: Thanks! We haven't gotten into sponsorships yet, but our thinking is that it shouldn't be a big deal to reprint a sign with different text should we need to change them down the road. I guess I'm sort of expecting to spend $20 to laminate new copies of them all once a year anyway, just to keep them looking sharp. That's one reason I like the laminated-laser-print route... once you make the initial investment of drawing them all on the computer, you can keep churning them out over the years with minimal effort.

I haven't played very many courses, but most of the teesigns I've seen personally were poorly maintained... illegible from fading and waterstains, out of synch with recent course changes, battered or missing on some or most of the holes. Whatever we install, I want it to be sturdy and easy to keep up-to-date and looking good.

Jun 25 2003, 01:58 AM

Try Star Office, it's got a super vector drawing program that works great for DG tee signs. It used to be a free download as Star Office 5.2 or 5.1 at Sun Microsystems. Last I checked, the newest version runs a few bucks ($50 - 100?), but it's probably worth it. I use it all the time in preference to various MS and Corel programs for DG and other stuff for graphics, text, presentations, and more.

If you haven't used vector drawing programs, you can draw a curved vector line (in various line formats) from point A to point C (or more). At each point on the vector line/curve, you control and edit (via graphic point and click) the vector's direction and velocity from one point to the next.

The result is a very smooth, intuitive and controlable curved 'flight' path from the tee to the hole.

Most par 3 DG holes require only 2 or 3 vector points. A few require 4. They are typically related to the flight characteristics and throw pattern of the ideal discs chosen for that hole.

You can easily create other graphic patterns for trees, bushes, bogs, creeks, grass, paths and other stuff. These can be easily moved around and copied from hole to hole.

Jun 25 2003, 02:29 AM

Here's a link to the computer tools (http://www.dolf.com/course/design/computer_tools.htm) that I've used for course signs and course maps with Star Office (Sun Microsystems).

The site also includes a downloadable 18 hole set of tee signs and course map that can be easily customized to fit most needs with the Star Office software.

Jun 25 2003, 08:57 AM

I've been using Corel to redo some handpainted signs at one of our courses. The old signs have faded and don't reflect the current holes. I then send the artwork to IFO Graphics here in Atlanta and they make the signs using colored vinyl stickers. The colors on these never fade and they can be updated. The only thing is the colors are solid, no shading. If you want a black outline around a shrub or tree, you have to create a black sticker slighty bigger than the green tree sticker. You then place the green on top of the black to get your outline. The same goes for the "flight path" line. You actually "remove" the line from the fairway. Using this method I don't consider it cheesing out to use distorted vector clouds for the trees and such.

By the way, what do you think of printing up some tee-shirts with the tee sign of your favorite hole?

Jun 25 2003, 10:42 AM

Dr. Fred: Well, I will be thoroughly jiggered.

I'm sitting here with a free copy of StarOffice on my desk -- our Sun rep came through a month or so ago handing out CDs like candy. I've used older versions for wordprocessing on several occasions, but never even looked at the vector capabilities. Thanks for the pointer!

I'm also looking at the wooden tee sign holder on the page you linked to. Do you have any plexiglass/lexan/etc protective covering on them, or just the laminate? How do you attach the sign to the holder? It looks like you slide it in from the bottom, maybe.

Jun 25 2003, 10:51 AM

Jim: The signs on the IFO website at http://www.ifoatlanta.com/samplesigns.html are impressive, but $75 a pop is probably a bit rich for us at this point, I think. I will, however, add them to the specs for the dream course I'm going to build in my "back 40" as soon as I become independently wealthy. And get a back 40... and get a back yard...

Jun 25 2003, 01:40 PM

Hi Jay,

We are actually using the existing signs that are there as backing. I doing the artwork that gets applied to a piece of plastic which we then put over the existing sign. We then put a piece of clear poly-carbonate (I hate brand names) over that and secure in place with bolts. We have a course fund (we collect at weekly and monthly events) that pays for keeping the trash cans clean, new collars for pin placements, ect. that helps pay the cost. If you can get some locals to help build the posts and solid sign backing, do the layout and assembly, you can get off cheaper than you think. It also helps to have a local graphics company owned by the people who brought Disc Golf to Atlanta (shout out to John & Patti!).

I just wanted to say Corel works great. I've done all our local course maps with it, not to mention disc stamps and numerous tee-shirt designs. Look for our latest hot stamp at SquirrelFest at Redan this fall.