Alternatives to "spike" drives?

Just to give a bit of background, I use an FX for my primary (straight) driver, and I typically use a new-as-possible H plastic speed demon for "spkie drives".

What's a spike drive, you may ask? A drive that I can throw out (and up) to about 3/4 of my max distance with some hard hyzer that falls STRAIGHT down. It's real useful for getting over stuff and pegging certain distances where you can't throw an actual hyzer.

I use hammer throws (finger inside, overhand) for roughly the same thing out to about 1/2 my max distance, but I can't get this farther.

I've tried thumbers, but I tend to tear up the skin under my thumb.

I like spike drives, but I find that the bottom edge of the Speed Demon is uncomfortable and can wear the skin off my index finger (and no other disc is suitably overstable to drop out of the air like that).

Can anyone give me a bit of advice on throws to try, corrections to my form for thumbers, or crazy low-speed overstable discs (preferably innova) to replace the H plastic Speed Demon?

[bschweberger]

Monster, or Firebird is what I use, for spike hyzers.

Try the Z-Xtreme. It's ugly overstable. Or if you're an Innova guy, give the Whippet or the Ram a whirl.

[disctance00]

Banshee works pretty good.

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Banshee seems about the same as the firebird, to me (remember I use the firebird for straight drives) ... not sure just how much more overstable the monster is (have not had a chance to throw one yet).

What about other throwing techniques, or tips on correct ways to throw the thumber (so that I don't tear my thumb up)?

-Daniel

LOL

[pnkgtr]

Get a stack of Monsters and pick out the flattest one. It will be very overstable. More like a Z Xtreme only faster.

[pterodactyl]

Try an invert shot: Throw disc upside down, backhand, with something light. Throw it high and it will come somewhat straight down.

Oh hey - good idea; I'll try the inver throw tomorrow afternoon when I next get a chance to play (see what kind of D I can put on it, and if I can get it consistant).

Fun fun.

[drivethruliquor]

Daniel

The invert is usually even harder on your thumb than the thumber, so that may not be the solution...basically, building up the callous on your thumb is the best bet.

So your saying that the "spike" hyzer hurts your hand? Must be a speed demon problem? I would try the X or Z extreme, or a Z X2. Bending over a little more than usual helps me get the right angle for the spike...meaning it helps me get the right distance with the smallest amount of right-to-left during flight.

[disctance00]

Ah so Mr. Daniel your a programmer then more than likely you don't have many calluoses. Good call DTL. For awhile it will hurt untill you develop come callous on yer fingers. Just play through that pain and shortly you will have the callouses and no more problem. Kinda like playing the Guitar it hurts for awhile untill the ends of your fingers get Callouses on them then it does'nt hurt any longer. Me I have Callouses on the end of my index and pinky fingers. It hurt for a little bit but I played through it and now there is no more rawness on my fingers after I get done playing. But even though your an Innova guy give some other stuff a try Z extreme Etc...
Sorry Innova /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

I don't know what this kind of throw is called, but it doesn't hurt my hand or thumb. i grip the disc upside down and throw it overhand like a baseball. I usually use a beast or teebird. Real predictable. I'm a righty, so i aim slightly left of target which lets the disc flip over and slice right. Then it usuall get's a short roll right.

The Best Disc for this is the Lightning SBD5 Dauntless Or As known now as the #1 Hookshot, This disc will do the "Spike" and come crashing in from altidude. This is the fastest Hyzer/Hook depending how you pitch it on the market.

CHAMPION VIPER!!!!!!!!!!

S-T-A-B-L-E

[rhett]

Ram or CE Viper.

[neonnoodle]

Gateway's Speed Demon has unseated the RAM. It was bound to happen that someone would make a superior lawn dart eventually. Good job Gateway!

get a h/e speed demon, get 3 or 4 of them 'cause they are a great disc, more durable then the h, i used a older one on a hole i was having trouble reaching and landed it 20 feet from the pin, and this was an anhyser shot, you could also try the FX that you already have in your bag

[dannyreeves]

FX for straight drives?

[neonnoodle]

Besides spike hyzers, one of the coolest shots to do with a Speed Demon is the baseball throw. The disc is so over stable that instead of cork screwing counter clockwise, it will flex all the way around and land lefty spike hyzer. This is a nifty shot to have in the woods.

There's just something comforting about having a disc in your bag that represents the ultimate in overstability. You almost wish for 40-50 mph winds.

(I did say "almost".)

[rhett]

Nick, read the thread. He was asking for an alternative to the Speed Demon because it hurts his finger. Try a CFR Candy Viper for a close-to-a-Ram experience that shouldn't wear out.

[dannyreeves]

Z-Xtreme

[neonnoodle]

If you can’t throw a Speed Daemon for spike hyzers because it hurts your wittle fingers, then use tape, don’t throw spike hyzers at all, or prepare yourself for very inconsistent performance with other discs.

Spike hyzers are the manliest of throws. You might need to build up some tougher skin on your fingers and on your palm.

(In case you haven’t figured it out yet, I’m just kidding. I’d go with the RAM then, but it is a full factor less sick overstable than the Daemon.)

nick do you really throw one of those old school hammers?

what do you use them for? had one for a minute and couldn't find a use for it other than a giant coaster...


Daniel... try the ce viper, more stable than a kc-whippet, z-extreme, or anything else i have ever thrown...

you try and anhyzer it but to no avail...very fun side arm disc...


mine is max weight any one have a lighter one? do the behave as massively overstable as the big ones?

That CE Viper is so cool. Speed Demon, Schmeed Demon.

Yes, Kid - FX for straight drives.

I've been playing with new grips - trying to generate a little more spin (my vikings occasionally "come back" when I throw big anhyzers and I'm trying to get more consistant with a long turnover disc that won't cost me $40 a pop or more).

Anyway, long story shorter, a modified power grip seems to be giving me better spin, and is reducing the amount of rubbing from the Speed Demon, though it's still a little awkward feeling with the shallower discs I prefer (FX's and JK Valks).

Anyway, thanks to all for the advice - I'll actually try these discs, as I get a chance, but I'm reluctant to spend alot more on discs when I'm already trying to stock up on my favorite (expensive, harder to find) discs (like 3x JK Aviars, FX's, 10x Rocs, 1st 2 runs of JK Valks, etc.).

[dannyreeves]

That is very odd.

a light fx is straight as fiznucks 169 and down, and it wont flip out til you beat it up... good technique when you dont want to rely on release angle only.

[neonnoodle]

Willie, classic hammers are the best short range approach discs ever created. Particularly in windy conditions. Most golfers today use Valks and Beasts and the like for approach discs. (Crazy)

The fine art of slow discs is lost in the need for speed and D.

I'll gladly take any of those coasters you may have off of your hands.

[circle_2]

What's your all's opinions re: the 'non-speed' Demon (G-5i) for a short range, extremely overstable approach disc?

IMHO, when new, I haven't found anything that is as overstable or as comfortable grip-wise as a Demon. They gain quite a bit of glide as they season >>> making for a new (though shorter) Roc or Gator in their flight dependability. I carry 2 at all times - 1 new, 1 beat.

Lightning has some seriously overstable examples in their lineup as referenced above...they just don't inspire me. "Not a cloud in the sky...and I just saw Lightning!!" /msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

Nick,
I am waaay with you, I don't understand what people are doing when the are throwing a Beast for a 100 foot upshot.
Unless u are looking for that spiffy candy skip.

I have 2 Candy Spiders and 2 Rocs in my bag for upshots, a nice slow midrange discs is vital to easy "hit ur head on the basket" pars.

My theory is that if u can't get a birdie, u had better make sure that u get a par.

My theory is that if you extend your drives and your putts long enough, par is simply a missed putt or evil shrubery.

My game? I often joke that I need to work on my approach ... so that I can get back to the fairway.

[rhett]

Daniel, that's exactly when you need to break out a Roc for the 325-340 foot holes. Candy Classic Roc for the 250 footers, and the KC Aviar for 200 and less.

Driving with a Champion Beast on a 220' hole is silly. That's what Aero's were made for! /msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

My sentiments exactly, Rhett. Why throw a Beast and "let off" when u can throw the correct disc at speed to the target.
For the easy analogy, how often do u see Tiger Woods using a 3 Wood from 200 yards??

Rhett, shhhhh if everyone knows what a roc in there bag is going to do to there game....well it is all over /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

thankfully, I have discovered the roc this year! 4 years late, but oh well /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Matchu, good point, keep the down low on the down low.

[pnkgtr]

If Tiger is trying to shoot under trees from 300 yards he would use a 3 iron. Since I'm frequently shooting under trees I throw a lot of drivers. I also think it's important to be careful not to try and crush an Aviar (I see this a lot) and run the risk of yanking it right.
When you take something off of a Whippet or Banshee it usually goes the proper direction.

Yeah but a nice little finger pop with an FX will hold a very low, very straight line and then fade hard and give a lice little skip for a run at the chains, and will do it consistantly anywhere between 200 and 300 feet.

[pterodactyl]

Lets talk about rollers now on this "spike hyzer" thread. Can you say "ADHD"?

Rich,
for anything between 80 to 300 feet in a fairly open area, I use a Candy Spider, for more stability, maybe a T-bird.
As for the beautiful skip of a driver, there is no replacement. Also, for zipping a disc 300 feet at 4 feet off the ground, the driver is the only way to go.

I think that our difference of opinion is due mainly to the type of terrain.

BTW, i hardly ever throw my putter more than 60 feet. I see the same thang, people turning over Candy Aviars.

ROLLARS - still working on, i can still launch my Valk or Beast farther in the air than on the ground.

Ram, Tac 4.1, Whippets. They all are good spike hyzer. I use the RAM, nothing will turn that disc over.
JB

[rhett]

Try that Candy Viper, all you Ram Lovers. I threw mine hard for the spike hyzer with some distance yesterday and it kicked over and fell out of the sky like a paper plate. Sweeet! /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

[pnkgtr]

Kenny, I'll talk about rollers. At the CVS in Stockton I rolled up birdies on 12 and 13 Back to back). Since I was stat man last year I checked and I was the only player in the tournament to birdie both those holes (in one or two rounds).Not even the guy that was -30 did it (yea, you). Pretty cool huh?
Wait, this belongs in the " Boast About Your Rollers" thread. Insert smiley face here.

[pterodactyl]

I rolled and birdied long 3 (3-4) and long 5 last time I played Motown...

candy vipers- way overstable (dare i say it? more than a metalhead!)

available to event sponsors of $25 of the old dominion showdown postage paid.

jbiscoe2@earthlink.net

You see that Rhett? John is paying postage!

Rhett paid my postage.......... I did by 10 discs but he paid! Thanks Rhett they are awesome overstable. My arm is sore from throwing them...hahaha
Rob Shipman

[rhett]

/msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

Thanks for the plug, Rob!

[rhett]

Oh, yeah: Rob didn't pay $25 a disc either! /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

didn't know if you'd want me to mention that! But yes Rhett did right by me......Hope Bobby Musick gets some of my money, ahhahah

[rhett]

Those Vipers are sick overstable! I drove Morley 14 in the short position today with it. Just trying the old shot of "get it past the big tree and let it fall in left". I huffed and puffed and psyched up for a crush, hoping it wouldn't carry too far and hit the trees in back.

Son of a gun if it didn't turn in front of the big tree! /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Ram fans: get yerself a CFR Viper or three. I'm serious. This is the Candy Ram.

It is unequivocally one end of the spectrum.

candy viper fun out of a sidearm toss also, i was throwing near vertical and it was still turning out...

mine is max weight, what about the light ones??

I dont think there are any light ones........ Its the most stable disc I've thrown!

to my knowledge all are heavy. i have now thrown one a few times and agree- overstable pig!! they are available postage paid for sponsors of $25 or more of the old dominion showdown.

jbiscoe2@earthlink.net

Hmmm.
I've got a Proto Tac 4.1 (from '95 in Japan), and though it is more stable than the H-SpeedDemon at low speeds, it is a 150-class disc, and for me a touch less stable at speed.

I'll look into the Candy Viper ... I'll probably wait until it comes out as a regular run (if).

I tried working on my thumber a little more - I'm still holding it wrong, I think; I'm either tearing up my thumb (thumbnail pointing towards the center of the disc) or getting no control whatsoever (thumbnail roughly parallel with the inside of the rim). Give me until after this weekend, and I'll work on it more. Heck, maybe someone in Shreveport will show me how to do it right.

Thanks again for all the input... this thread could be like the MRV thread one day: completely random topics stuffed together by a meandering stream of collective consciousness. Or something.

[rhett]

If you like this kind of stuff you should stock up on Candy Vipers. I predict it will be like the regular Ram: a few vocal people love them, but the masses ignore them. That means Rams are run only very irregularly. To me that means Candy Vipers won't be run again.

But I could be wrong. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

I'll second that Rhett!

rhett is correct, i wouldn't hold my breath on the "candyhead" viper becoming a regularly run disc.

[rhett]

"Candyhead Viper"! That's awesome. I'm gonna use it. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Sorry, I doubt I'll be giving you credit, either. /msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

[hazard]

Getting back to the original subject...

Every alternative for the exact shot you are describing has already been mentioned, but I've occasionally had success with this in situations where other people might have thrown a spike backhand. Take a fairly stable disc, not too overstable...Beast, Talon, Monster, whatever feels comfortable; the best disc will vary depending on your plastic and the spin you get...and loft a fairly high anhyzer forehand with a good snap. Once you're used to it, you should be able to make this shot hold the curve to get around something, then level off and glide a ways and start fading back out just in time not to roll madly when it hits the ground.

Not sure if that'll help you, though, because the turn is at the other end of the flight from a spike drive, but I've had some success with it. Then again, I've been throwing forehand so much that my backhand is pathetically weak.

[rrps]

Getting back to the sub-subject, I've been told that the CFR Vipers wont be a regular run. It is too bad, I'll probably one day be able to get as many candy polecats as I could want, but I'll have to pay through the nose for a viper. Sarcasm off.
I'm just venting.

[hazard]

Gimme mah polecat...ooooh yeah...

Ok, that was random. By the way, I meant every alternative I could think of. I don't presume to know the end-all and be-all of alternatives.

[circle_2]

Had the opportunity to throw my Speed Demon this weekend on an extreme hyzer hole...#12, McLure, Tulsa. This disc is so fast, and skipped so well and far...parked it!! I don't think another disc would have done this 'for me'.
.02

what? NOBODY except little ol ME throws a Z PREDATOR?
For the most stable APPROACH disc, gimme my DEMON
For the most stable DRIVER, gimme my PREDATOR
(some people think a BEAST is stable ... huh?)

Anyone out there ever turn over a Demon OR a Predator? Don't think so.
As far as the Xtreme goes, yep, i turned mine over (171g), then gave it away (not beat up too bad either)

I currently own my sixth Demon ... why six? Because every time i demo my demon at a doubles match, somebody wants to trade OR i give it to them cuz I am such a nice guy to newbies - then I get a new one asap.

WHERE do you get Demons?

http://www.gatewaydiscsports.com

btw .... get a Wizard while you are there.

some great combo specials too - NO I do not get kickbacks, I like these discs!!! You will too

I love my Z-Predator......my Pro monster, is awfully close to it, though....

Havent thrown my Starfire enough yet, to really guage its durability and stability....

[hazard]

Never thrown a Demon, only a scout. Scouts are less overstable and pretty easy to turn over. I've turned over my speed demon, my monster, a friend's FL (haven't tried an FX) but not my Predator...yet.

[junnila]

hike spyzer...go with the z predator, you can turn it over if you really crank it, but just lean forward and snap...

[vwkeepontruckin]

Remind me again what a "Spike" Drive is again?

[eddie_ogburn]

Its throwing a driver high with hyzer, letting it spike into the ground with no skip. Also called a knife shot.

[vwkeepontruckin]

Its throwing a driver high with hyzer, letting it spike into the ground with no skip. Also called a knife shot.



So its thrown straight up and down, w/ the disc being parallel to the ground?

[Plankeye]

I throw a Champ Whippit for spike hyzer shots.

If you stand behind me and watch me throw it, the disc goes from 8:00 to 2:00.

I have not had a problem though with the skin on my fingers from a spike hyzer.

Holes in NC that I throw a spike hyzer on(courses that I have played several times): Hole 10 and 18 at Cornwallis(Durham, NC), and a couple holes at Wellspring(haven't played it enough to know what hole number they are).






Then there is that one hole at swingin' DBs......

[circle_2]

It's more or less an extreme(r) hyzer shot used for shorter drives and/or approaches that need to go up and over and/or land with very little chance of (extreme) skippage...kind of a placement shot.