Elusive "snap"...

[chris]

OK guys, I need some help here. I've been playing for a little over a year now and while my game has improved, I'm still only driving 200 feet. For some reason, I think it may have to do with the lack of a snap in my wrist. The problem is, no matter how much I practice (a couple of times a week in an open field) I'm not sure what a proper snap is supposed to "feel" like. I'm currently working on my form assuming that it's probably the culprit. Can anyone describe a good backhand throw technique from the run up to the drawback, etc.? Thanks in advance!

http://www.discgolfonline.com/

and look for the License to Drive how-to article by Rick Bays.

I'd add three things. Be careful to keep your elbow lower than the hand so as not to hyperextend the elbow.

Keep your shoulders and arm relaxed: the snap comes from a whip-crack effect which can't happen if the arm is stiff. The power comes from the legs.

He promises 350' drives. Don't count on it.

Chris,

Definately contact your local course pro. They will be able to watch you first hand and offer you advice based on that.

If you've been playing for over a year, and are still not able to get snap, you may have to do somethig very drastic to correct your throw. Be ready to do something that may feel uncomfortable for a while, because your body has gotten used to doing something incorrectly. If you practice the wrong technique, all the practice in the world will not change your result.

You are luck that you caught it this early in your career, some people get stuck with bad technique and they can't change it, you should be able to though.

If you can't get a hold of your local course pro, don't be afraid to go up and ask a pro golfer, usually they'll be more than happy to offer you advice. If they're not, you don't want advice from them anyway, just go find one that is interested.

You are at an exciting point in your disc golf experience. You'll be making progress in leaps and bounds over the next two years. I'd love to be there when you finally get a good drive off, there's nothing like that feeling of hearing the snap and watching that disc get smaller and smaller.

Howdy Chris

You might also check out the Disc Golf Association website, I seem to recall a "movie" showing how to throw. Try playing catch with a putter or a big frisbee, especially trying to throw those "parachute shots" that your partner can fingerspin (not to sure what you call those shots, can sumbody help me here?)...the extra spin you are putting on the disc in that case is due to the snap, and not arm speed. Good Luck! DD

Hey Dee,

I'm not sure the anti-distance nose-up throw required for good Zs in freestyle is a good thing to practice for driving.

Chris, if it's snap you're looking for make sure you are pulling the disc straight across your chest and close to it. If you get any "windmill" action where your hand moves away from your chest on the first part of your pull it will rob you of snap. The almost perfect pull will hit you nipples on the way through. The perfect one will just miss. If you hold on hard and pull the disc straight through like this then you don't even have to think about snap; it happens automatically as your wrist cocks and snaps at the release point. Do the motion slow in your chair right now and you'll see. ;-)

For backhand, don't try to intentionally snap your wrist. The motion is too fast for that. Just make your wrist loose and let the motion create the snap.

To keep the disc level it's natural to keep the forearm level. But then you need to tighten your wrist to level the disc--no good. Raise the hand and keep the elbow low instead to keep the wrist loose.

Imagine you've got goo on your hand. You don't want to wipe onto anything else so you try to fling it off. That's the snap you're looking for.

Howdy Rhett

You are absolutely right, the whatchyamacallit free style throw is no good for practicing distance, but is sure helps tune in my snap...DD

I've seen people on the course who seem to be concentrating too much on getting snap by curling their wrist way under and getting good spin. But they seem to lose a lot of armspeed and distance that way, that's all.

[chris]

Thanks for all the responses guys (and gals!). I've already seen an improvement to the tune of maybe 50-75' (JLS/Cheetah). Evidently, the disc was never that close to my chest and resulted in some "windmill" action. I'm also using more upper body as opposed to arm only. I can't do the runnup yet as I'm loosing far too much control. But this has been a great start. The next thing is to take Nick's advice and contact a local pro. Thanks again!

Chris

chris,

I have read all the advise that has been given to you and it is all good and all, but no one has gone into all the factors of having a consistant 350' to 400' throw. I myself average 350' to 450' on an average. I have throw many 500' plus throws and have been in the 600' range many times. most people don't believe it until they see it, but I am not a liar. In my beleifs of throwing long, there are 3 steps. your arm speed and snap have to equal or the disc is never going to go anywhere. that is step 1, step 2 is the angle in which you release the disc, this has a lot to do with distance and accuracy. also with this doesn't only mean the angle in which you release it, but where you release it. if you are leaning back and your arm is not level with the ground, then you are not going to get the desired distance, also if you are leaning to far forward the disc is going into the ground. Your body has to be in balance with the ground, like throwing a baseball, to get a good throw, your body is balanced you have a good plant foot. to throw off of. make sure that you are planting and using that as a balancing point for your body. I know this is a given, but alot of people have problems with it and don't realize that this is a problem. the 3rd step is your run up. I personaly have a 4-5 foot approch. I have seen guys with 20 ft. approches. because they think that the more momentum they get the further the disc will go. that is not the case in most people, like I said, I have thrown over 600' with a 4-5 step approch. I have what has been called the X-step, where you start off with the right foot if you are right handed and then bring your left foot behind and up to get your body turned almost backwards then continue with the right foot foward as your plant foot and use your leg a balancing point to bring your body back around with the throwing motion. now different people use more or less steps in their approch. it is whatever is comfortable for you. play around with it, if you are not getting it, ask someone that you see that does the X-step and have them show you what your problem is. the postion of your body and how you release the disc and the snap and arm speed is what you need to consintrate on. I have a very fast arm speed, alot faster than most. I have players that have been playing for 10 to 15 years tell me that I have the fastest arm they have ever seen. but my snap equals it. you said that you don't know what a good snap is. it is hard to describe a good snap but i will try for you, it is easier to show than to write down. your hand is cocked back and when your arm stops to release the disc your wrist doesn't stop. it follows threw the arm and motion, most people believe that your arm creates the follow through, but it is you snap that creates it. now don't try to create to much snap you will start to turnover the disc. remember that your snap and arm speed have to equal. I have been playing for over 7 years now and I have taken friends that only could throw 250' to now throwing over 350' and 400'. a good friend doug bjerkaas could only throw 200' - 250' ft when we started playing together, and after about 2 months he was driving over 350' and even hitting the 400' mark. I have taken others that could only throw 150' to 250' and now they are throwing 300' - 350'. if you need any other help in the matter at hand let me know. Good luck and play on.
Troy

Hey Troy,

Where do you play? I always like to see guys that can crush (I got to play with Craig Leyva @ RR this year), and would love to see one of those 600 footers. I'll be sure to look for you in my travels if I know where you are!?

HEY CG4010,

I PLAY IN DALLAS, MOSTLY IN LEWISVILLE, AT THE LAKE, BUT I DO PLAY ALL OVER THE DALLAS AREA.

That explains it, huh, Craig?

Troy,

Have you been in any distance contests at overall events? If you can throw 600' on a consistant basis you should have no problem breaking the World Record. I've played often with Scott Stokely, Sam Ferrans, and Steve Brinster, and I know that they don't throw 600' on a consistant basis. Even the best distance throwers need to have just the right conditions to get off a 500' shot let alone a World Record one. I really have to question the validity of your claim. If you are accurate in your claim, you should be touring nationally and probably getting on TV.

Troy,

We got a bunch of guys who would love to see you rip it! Come out to the mini at BB Owen in Dallas on Saturday before 2PM.

Bill

Nick,

I have not been in any real distance contest in overall events. The only real like contest I have been in was in Wichita Falls a few years back after a one day tourny. and I put one over the 600' mark and everyone there went crazy. Now I didn't say that could throw 600' consistantly, if you reread my message I said that I have thrown 600' many times. I don't think that anyone could throw 600' consistantly. And I do believe that the right conditions have to be present to be able to crush one that far. I understand that you might not believe the validity of my claim, and as I said most people don't at first, until they see me throw. I have many friends that have seen me crush over 600'. and I know there is nothing I can say to convence you, until the day that I am on TV or in one of the magazines that I am the new worlds record hold in distance, so until that day believe what you want, I and the people that have seen me, will know the truth. The biggest reason I am not touring is the fact of money, I can't afford to tour, or go to the big tournys that have distance contest. I really don't know what tournys have distance contest. and I am only an advanced player, I know that I should be pro, but my putting is my don't fall and I don't have a very good mental game. and before you call me a sandbagger or anything else like that, I have never one a tourny and out of the ten to fifteen tournys I play a year I only cash at about 1/3 of those and maybe one or two top tens. I sorry I am very wordy, but that is me.

Bill I will try to make it out in a few weeks I am out of town on businsee and a tourny for the nezt two weekends.

thanks

Troy

Troy
Got spellcheck?

Power to you Troy. Hope to see you in the record book soon. How long have you said you've been playing.

Troy - all I can say is - I hope you never learn to putt!! ;)

And with that kind of arm I hope we see you in the open division soon. If you need help getting a good tournament head - there are a couple really good books that may help. "Mental Toughness Training for Sports" by Loehrer, and "The Inner Game of Golf" both have excellent tips for helping you attain relaxed focus, and mental stability. Give em a try - and practice putting!

Troy,

Look for info on the Texas State Flying Disc Championships. After a layoff this 20 year old event was revived last year. It will be held in October (not sure of exact date) at Houck's place in Wimberly. Distance is one of the events. As a bonus to that you will get to play on two awesome golf courses as well. Hope to see you there!

Catch ya later,
Richard in Houston

P.S. How about you Bill, when is the last time you played DDC or threw MTA?

Who Cares if I can't spell/type, does it really matter in this sport, do I have to learn to spell or type correctly, before I can be a pro player?
Rag, thanks for pointing out my mistakes!!!

Nick, I have been playing since the spring of '93.

CG, thanks for the info!!!!

Richard, thanks for the info!!!!

THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT.

TROY

Richard,

Sounds tempting. I think the 1991 OK States Championships was my last multi-event tournament, as well as my retirement from competitive freesytle.

Don't get out much, but we'll see...

Bill

Troy,

Try not to take offense, but where I come from, a 600' throwin', 7 year playin' Advanced player is called a "Sandbagger". Affectionately so.

Good luck at the Texas states.

Now now Nick,

Not everybody has the benefit of having 20 years under our belt. Often, some of these kids that can crush (and those TX boys can cruuush) have only thrown golf discs. There is some special touch with any kind of disc that one develops only from hours upon hours of throwing a Frisbee back and forth...and back and forth- as we did when growing up. It is exactly that touch that makes a pro. It gives the ability to accurately thread that 180 anhyzer approach, and the chance to schmooze a chain high bid from 70' while only going 20' past. This touch mitigates the bogey factor, while certainly earning us some birdies as well. Troy doesn't sound like a bagger to me, just a youngster.

Troy- Throw that Frisbee- studying light plastic and seeing the effects of the elements on it will help your game tremendously.

Good luck
dm2439

Toot toot! I knew how to throw a bee long before
disc golf. Your advice on light plastic is dead
on targe

Having the disc pass a few inches closer to the chest just added 30' to my drive. Amazing how much difference this little detail makes.

[chris]

Again guys, thanks for all the great advice. This has really gotten me juiced. We met a guy here in Houston who convinced myself and my wife to play AM in some local touneys (although I think my first might be novice). Playing with him has incouraged me to rip my fair share, and I don't think I'm far behind him. I joke with my wife that I will beat him by summers end. It's something to shoot for anyway.

Rog, spellcheck this!

I hope to meet some of you one day at a mini or other. I'll bring the beer.

NICK,

I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER ME A SANDBAGGER. I TAKE NO OFFENSE, TO YOUR COMMENT. I HAVE ONLY BEEN PLAYING ADVANCED FOR 2 - 2.5 YEARS. AND BEFORE THAT AM FOR 2 - 2.5 YEARS, AND BEFORE THAT I WAS JUST A CASUAL GOLFER. I DON'T PLAN TO STAY IN THE ADVANCED FIELD FOR MUCH LONGER, I HAVE GIVEN MYSELF A YEAR TO A YEAR AND A HALF, TO GET MY MENTAL AND PUTTING GAME DOWN, THEN I WILL MOVE UP, I DO NOT LIKE SANDBAGGERS I BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE HURTING THE SPORT MORE THAN ANY OTHER ASPECT. I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF A BAGGER, BECAUSE OF THE PARTS OF THE GAME IM LACKING. I WILL NOT KEEP PLAYING ONCE I GET BETTER AND AQUIRE THE WHOLE GAME. ONCE I WILL A MAJOR TOURNAMENT REGARDLESS IF IT IS NEXT MONTH OR NEXT YEAR I WILL MOVE UP.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT LIGHT PLASTIC. ARE YOU MEANING REAGULAR FRISBEES OR WHAT.

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP AND INFO.

TROY

Troy,

Light plastic just means throwing the same discs that you are now, but with less weight. Typically it refers to 150g or less. Some believe there is a benefit to lighter plastic in certain situations, and it is certainly something you should look into.

For the rest of y'all,

Troy played in this year's Dallas Spring Roundup B Tier, and he placed 11th out of 37 in Advanced, 3 strokes from last place money. Doesn't appear to be sandbagging to me. The Advanced played one round each on the shorter 2 of 3 courses used, then played 2 rounds Sunday on the longer course (1 hole about 1000ft, total around 6800 ft.) He was tied for 24th place after 2 rounds, then tied for the third best Sunday total to move up to 11th. Appears he liked the longer course - maybe because he has a long arm?

Don't know if he has played anywhere else - maybe you can look to see how he did in Waco if he went.

troy dont worry about people calling you a sandbagger i've only been playing for a little over a year and can reach the lower 500's on my drives and people call me a sandbagger as an intermediate. but my mental and puuting game is like yours it's not quite there yet. Anyway i'll be up in dallas for a month after houck's bteir in july 8-9 and i was going up to play at some of McCutheons minis at the lake as well as the mini's at porter. i'll play advanced there so maybe we can play a few rounds.

Troy,

I meant getting a blunt edged lighter disc- a frisbee, or an ultrastar that has been beat.

dm2439

chris you said that you are from the houston area head out to the pleasure island pro-am so that ou get some tourney experiance under your belt it is next weekend at the berry's treasure course in port aurthur

Nick,
Would you old schoolers please refrain from using the "S" word here for a while? For those of us that frequent the board here, it's like listening to DrFred talk about his baskets one more time. (apologies to Fred, he's been good lately!)
Thanks (hopefully in ADV) no pun intended!,
Bill

WELL THIS IS QUITE THE BOARD.
LET ME SAY I HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR ABOUT 5 YEARS AND AM MOVING UP TO OPEN NEXT YEAR(7TH IN A SUPERTOUR ADVANCED FIELD OF 90 ) AND TROY I HAVE TO SAY YOUR GAME WILL IMPROVE MUCH FASTER IN THE OPEN DIVISION . I PLAY WITH A FEW OF THE KANSAS AND MO PROS AND I GENERALY PLAY THREE OR FOUR STROKES BETTER THEN WHEN I PLAY ALONE OR WITH OTHER AM PLAYERS. THIS GAME IS A LOT OF MENTAL PRESSURE.

CHRIS
I ADVISE YOU TO NOT WORY ABOUT THE "RUNUP" I CAN THROW 400-450 WITH A SIMPLE THREE STEP APROACH YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT YOU ARE GETTING TO THE END OF THAT PAD TO PLANT YOUR FOOT.
I CAN THROW 350 WITH A ONE OR NO STEP.
THERE IS ONLY ONE EXCEPTION I HAVE SEEN TO THIS RULE WE HAVE A GYMNAST THAT GOLFS HE CAN THROW 450 WITH A THREE STEP APROACH BUT IF HE TAKES A BIG RUN HE CAN CRANK WELL OVER 550 BUT AND HERE IS WHERE IT GETS GOOD ALL JIS LIFE HE HAS TRAINED TO FOCUS ALL HIS MOMENTUM INTO ONE EXPLOSIVE ACT. MOST OF US DONT HAVE THAT CONDITIONING OR ABILITY. OVERALL I WOULD ADVISE YOU TO REALY STUDY THE FUNDEMENTALS LAID OUT ABOVE IN ALL THE GREAT ADVISE OTHERS HAVE GIVEN. AND REMEMBER


MOST FUN WINS.

Two things come to mind after practicing drives in a field almost everyday for weeks: Along with much of the advice above, you'll get better distance and consistancy from two things.
1) As you are in your run/walk up, the most rapid portion of your motion should occur as you release the disc and follow through. As in the description above by QUINTEN~16504, accelerate through the drive, focus your momentum into one explosive act. But a difference, don't 'plant' your foot at the line. It makes no sense to build up all that energy only to slam on the brakes right at the moment you need to transfer it into the disc.
Accelerating through the drive will force you to 'pivot', rather than 'plant' on your forward foot. For clarification I mean forward foot = your right foot for RHBH throwers.
When you accidentally DO plant your foot, guess what happens? The disc goes higher in the air and inevitably falls backwards in a sharp hyzer at the end of the flight, cutting off close to 25% of it's potential distance.
2) Concentrate more on what you do with your feet and how you pull through than what the disc should do in the air. That portion of the drive (footwork & pull through) is what you have absolute control over. You can't do anything to the disc once it leaves your hand.
As you get better at repeating this process, you'll be amazed at how far the disc will travel with basically very little effort on your part.
And accuracy?! Well, you'll see what happens with that when you concentrate more on your balance and footwork.

You dont need to worry about distance if you've only been playing for a year. I feel the secret in a good game is control and confidence, Ive seen alot of players shoot 6,7,8 under when they arn't in a tourny, but the presure to win kills them my advice for you is not to worry about one part of you game, get a constant smooth pull, work on your up shots, and practice putt as much as possible I promise your game will improve, also try and play with better golfers so you can get feedback .........good luck Waco,TX.

* But a difference, don't 'plant' your foot at the line. It makes no sense to build up all that energy only to slam on the brakes right at the moment you need to transfer it into the disc. *

It's not planting the foot that is the problem for many players, it's planting a foot with the front knee locked. The knee should be flexed so that your forward and rotational momentums proceed properly.

The typical result of having a stiff plant leg is as others have described, the disc flies up and tails off to the left (RHBH).

If you manage to compensate for the faulty upwards flight, the next thing that a stiff leg will cause is loss of directional control, even with moderate distances.

In it's simplest form, a shot with both feet planted should be with the knees flexed so that the body and arm can smoothly move in line with the intended direction of the throw. This can be tested by a few practice throw movements shifting weight from back to front as in the shot. The target should stay in line with the movement if you're set up and executing this properly.

It gets more complicated when you have more steps to the runup, but the same principle holds -- keep the front knee flexed to smoothly finish out the throw.

Always, Fred C

Thanks Fred Chittenden for this last post.I have read a lot of posts on throwing tech.,including Rick Bays "license to drive" at Discgolfonline.I haven't been happy with my backhand,not bad distance but my joints and muscles were complaining
.Shorter drives were not bothering me but when you go for the longer ones, ouch!In fact looking at some of the pictures(Climo sight)it looks like I've been missing this point all along.My game has improved and my body is happier = more golf.

Troy, no disrespect meant but, I really do not understand what you are trying to explain. Some of it kinda makes sense but you are not relating your ideas with concrete meanings. Please try to use correct puntuation also, as this seem to add greatly to my confusion. If you are truly throwing 500, I would like a little insight. Do you really understand what you are doing? Or are you trying to explain something that you really don't quite grasp? Please clarify. Thanks, Mike

[my_hero]

My advice is to stay relaxed. A cooked piece of pasta has more freedom of movement than one right before it hits the boiling water! Leg and hip rotation is critical for BIG throws. Look at Tiger Woods for instance, he generates most of his power in his hips. I'm considered a Big Arm in my neck of the woods, but I'm not a very BIG person, 160 pounds soaking wet. I've also been told that my 450-550 ft drives look effortless. Well, with proper relaxation, leg and hip rotation, far throws will become a part of your game, and will seem effortless. My last bit of advice is if you ever run across a crazy Texan named Randy Wimm(Wimp), just ask him how to throw. He taught me, and would love to teach you! jm

Yeah, I'll teach you to throw it 500' in the wrong direction.

I know that technique, timing, and practice all play a huge part in getting big D, but how big a factor do you consider size and physical condition to be in throwing 400' to 450' with regularity? My goal is to do just that, with the occasional 500'er, within a year or two, and have been wondering what returns I might get on cross-training. Or should I just spend all day putting....?

Size has little to do with it. Being in shape always helps. Spend all day putting.

Ask a woman if size doesn't matter!

[morgan]

Size matters to a woman. She should be at least 5 feet tall to cash, just like men. Dwarfs and midgets of either gender probably won't fair as well.

[dischick]

so now that its been about 5 years since this post in 2000, are oyu throwin farther yet chris?
has all this advice helped you?

[dischick]

size doesnt matter

[chris]

lol! Yes, With the advice giving in here I have learned to add a little extra distance to my drive, thanks! I can now throw 260' :)

[dischick]

too bad the best advice was from those who posted annonymouse. too bad youll never know who to thank

[chris]

At least I have my 260' drive to show for it!

[danknug]

thats impressive how do you do it :confused:

when i throw i get a loud pop on the Disc but still not alot of distance what i'm i doing wrong

[z Vaughn z]

Sometimes when I go for big distance, I throw my arm out of socket and have to get it re-set at the doctor's office. This happens several times a week.
What am I doing wrong?

[chris]

are you throwing a 16lb bowling ball instead of 170g disc? If so, I recommend choosing a lighter ball, maybe a 6lb ball and if your arm still pops out of socket I recommend going back to 170g discs.

[cbdiscpimp]

Sometimes when I go for big distance, I throw my arm out of socket and have to get it re-set at the doctor's office. This happens several times a week.
What am I doing wrong?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I hope your not being serious because if you are your disc golf career is going to come to a screeching hault REAL REAL fast.

when i throw i get a loud pop on the Disc but still not alot of distance what i'm i doing wrong



ok can someone help me out please :confused:

[bschweberger]

It sounds like you may need more arm speed, and get the disc on a little bit more anhyzer angle on release. Keep practicing the distance will come, even though you are vertically challenged. ;) :D

thanx schweb

thanx schweb

[esalazar]

Sometimes when I go for big distance, I throw my arm out of socket and have to get it re-set at the doctor's office. This happens several times a week.
What am I doing wrong?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I hope your not being serious because if you are your disc golf career is going to come to a screeching hault REAL REAL fast.



holy crap!! that sucks!!

[bschweberger]

sounds like you are not following thru after release to let the power you generated slow down gradually, instead of stopping abruptly.

[z Vaughn z]

are you throwing a 16lb bowling ball instead of 170g disc? If so, I recommend choosing a lighter ball, maybe a 6lb ball and if your arm still pops out of socket I recommend going back to 170g discs.



I was throwing a bowling ball to bulk up so I can get big distance. I'm up around ' 270 feet now, the bowling ball has helped a lot, but Now my arm is just hanging from the shoulder. I get tired of getting it re-set. I may just start throwing lefty and never practice with the bowling ball again.

[chris]

Sometimes I practice with a bowling ball, but it's usually at a bowling alley. I usually have white blocks that cushion the throw at the end of the room. I like practicing there since the ball automatically comes back after I throw it.

[Blarg]

I practice with big heavy dinner plates.

Note:
They do not skip well on pavement.
:D

I totally remember reading this thread when it originated. I was maybe throwing 250' at that time, so I was very anxious to read the responses.

Great list of OG posters on this thread ... Wimpy, Nick, Rhett, DrFred, SlayerBill, CG4010, BBurns, Morgan ...

[Blarg]

By 'OG posters,' are you referring to Oak Grove posters?
I'd be pleased and amazed if this were so, but I suspect there is another 'OG' involved. :confused:

[slo]

2-3 or more of those above mentioned are younger than I, who still acts/feels like a kid, so it certainly couldn't stand for Old Guys. ;)
Except Morgan [Hizzle]. He's old. :o

I thought you guys were more hip /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

By 'OG' I meant 'Original Gangster' :cool: Its one of those terms all the young whipper-snappers use...