Beast or valk?

Now that they've been in our hands for awhile now, which flies further...imo the beast out drives the valk by 10-30 yards consistently, also had one run over last night, completley bent in half, bent it back and it flies exactly the same.:-]

[dannyreeves]

Neither, TEEBIRD!

[Sharky]

Valk and Beast about the same distance for me, the longest discs in my bag. I am using the Beast more though because it does not need as much room to move around left and right and it can be thrown lower. With it's straight line perfomance it tends to skip straighter and not as hard left as the valk finishes after an S drive. The stability is very close with the Beast perhaps a tad more stable. SO you get a slightly more stable disc yet it produces straighter drives.

You know Im going through the same stage right now. I think when thrown correctly the valk. should go farther. Look at the profile on that beast. Its sorta flat. I finnaly got the chance to try it out in some wind...was way more predictable with extra hyzer than my most overstable valk. Im pretty sure that it lacks a fair amount of glid though comparingly. But I want to say its faster, though most would argue. I think with some more time it will be more predicatable and a little more versitale.

I use them fairly interchangeably, however the Beast does not flip as easily as the Valk. Neither one of them is suited for any kind of wind work, though.
There is actually this great hole at Huntington Beach that is wide open and is about 450. I was able to park them both, the difference was the wind blowing right to left. Lots of wind - Valk, some or no wind - Beast
BTW
174 & 175g Beast
172g - JK Valk

I find the Valk to be the longest and the beast to be very flippy (nice roller disc)!

[snoophaney]

I've thrown both and I believe that the Beast goes farther. Now, I throw it with a lot of anny, where as the Valk. I throw with hyzer. But neither of them are in my bag because the TeeBird is The King.

Snoop

What kind of plastic do you prefer with the Beast? With the Valk, DX takes me 400 feet. I have only used a CE Beast and was never happy with it. Is any other plastic including the new Champion any better?

Teebird? Never could throw that more than 350 feet. Have not tried to throw it much lately, but may give it another try if they make it in Champion plastic.

[dannyreeves]

I don't know if they make the Teebird in the "Champion" yet but they have it with the new KC stamp. It is the same thing. I actually throw the TL. They go very far and are very straight flying. The most accurate 400 disc that I have ever thrown.

[snoophaney]

I like the DX Beast better.(throw it in grassy areas or you'll be needing another one soon)And I've only thrown the Valk. in CE. The TL is a great disc and with it not being as stable as the T, of course it will go farther. All of Innova's discs are great.

OK thanks, now for another stupid question: How do I tell a TL Teebird from a horse's [*****] (or any other plastic)?

[snoophaney]

Dale, On the bottom of the disc you should see a T for Teebird, meaning stable or TL, meaning it's a Teebird/Leopard mix, which are not as stable.

[discchucker]

Dude...the TL's rule. I have two of them...with a third on the way to me. TL power....

As for beast vs. valk...you should find that the beast is a hair bit more stable than the valk, especially in the pro line/champion plastic. As for a dx beast or valk, one tree and the story is over more or less. It will then take on a whole new flight pattern.

[dannyreeves]

Actually, the "L" in TL means less stable. It doesn't mean Leopard bottom. That is a common misconception.

ok, thats clear, now how can I distinguish them from others on the internet stores as I have never seen anything displayed like that. I have two teebirds (sunk two others in the water). Are all TLs KC Pro or DX plastic? or even Champion (I saw an advertisement in DGWN with those old men discussing the confusion between the Innova plastics and at the bottom was a Champion Teebird). Dave, is that actually in the works or waiting to be shipped?

Most, if not all, Champion Edition Teebirds were TL, even though only one or two runs were marked TL. The easiest way to tell whether a given Teebird is a "T" or a "TL" is to check the bottom of the nose: if it has a bead/hook, it's a regular T; if it doesn't have the bead/hook, it's a TL.

[davei]

All Champion TeeBirds are now Ts. Only TLs made in the last year were candy fundraising. If it is over a year old, it might be either. I don't be lieve any DX were ever TLs.

[discette]

Gave the Beast a shot after reading this thread. Picked one up with a World's Biggest stamp.
I love it. It is going as far or farther than my Valks. It appears to take the wind alot better than any of my Valks. It reminds me of a QJLS, only faster. The only way I would compare this with a Valkyrie is they both go very far! I haven't been able to get any anhyzer on my Beast, so no "S" action, and yet it still goes very far.

What is the lightest weight available in the CE Beasts?

[davei]

Hi Suzette, Champion Beasts can go as low as high 150s. It's what Tita has been throwing lately.

> Champion Beasts can go as low as high 150s

I WANT! I WANT! I WANT! Where can I get some?

Easy now ... women and juniors first!! /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

> Easy now ... women and juniors first!!

Uh-uh. Age before beauty. Us old man baggers got dibs. /clipart/proud.gif

For me, the beast absolutely smokes the valk (except for that one freak shot with my valk in a cross-wind…..).

I have to put too much hyzer on the valk to make throwing it efficient. The beast I can release pretty flat and it comes out with a nice S if I give it the height.

I like the beast for a high-long range driver. It isn’t nearly as forgiving as my other Innova big distance getter. The T Bird is just about perfect for me for the long-toss. I get maybe 10-15 more feet out of a beast on a really good throw (Although on the T Birds behalf, I haven’t compared them side by side enough yet), but the accuracy on a throw that is just a touch off falls off fast. It also needs more room left and right.

-Garrett

Oh, I guess this would help....
I throw around 400-425. Long drive on the year is a laser-measured (not course-sign estimated...) 474 ft. That was with a T Bird (171 T DX). I didn't have the beast yet, so I am not sure if it would have done better. I would have had to Hyzer it a fair amount on the bigger throws, though. We will see.

My beast is a Texas super-cool looking candy 175.

Stay Tooned for more beast vs. T Bird results.

Kid Rock,
You are the one who is confused. The L in TL does stand for Leopard. I spoke to someone who is more of an athority on the subject than myself and that was his answer. As to which fly's farther, We will always have an opinion. But they both fly far. I will go with the Teebird for distance any day. I quit throwing the Beast when they came out with the "QLS." It is a very true flying disc. It is more pradictable in it's flite than the Beast, Teebird, and especially the Valk. And finally, yes the Teebird comes in Champion plastic. Or at least there are some out there you can get your hands on.
PDGA #9743
You may want to see what PDGA number the people answering this question have so you will hear what someone who has been playing for a while has to say.

Ummmmm......Jerry, Dave D. says the L in FL and TL. are just "less" stable, and there isnt ANYONE more of an authority, than the man who molds them....

Personally, I could give a rats @#$......../msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Ummm ... Cong, Dave D. has indeed said (numerous times) that the "L" stands for "less stable," but he has also said:

By Dave Dunipace on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 02:10 pm:

> TL means Less stable Longer Leopardlike, but no it does not have a Leopard bottom.

<FONT SIZE="-2">Yes, I actually did remember reading this when Dave posted it, because the acknowledgment "Leopardlike" surprised me.</FONT>

So, in a way, you're BOTH right ... I guess ... sort of ... maybe ... kind of ... <FONT SIZE="-2">but you're more right than Jerry</FONT>. /clipart/wink.gif

Cong,
The person I spoke to is not quite an authority like the one you received your info from. I stand corrected. But he used the words Leopard like, I probably saw the L after that and assumed that is what it stood for. Nevertheless the disc will ripp. Just ask Victor or Mr. Ed.
I sure am glad I did not mention his name. Especially since he runs the Texas 10 events.

Now I am afraid to sware by it, but I am pretty sure that the Beasts do not come in 150 class weights. John Hauck info. Cong, is that correct? Or better yet John is that correct?

[discette]

Excuse me, Jerry! Dave D (the guy who makes the discs!) said they come in 150 class.

I am first....I am old woman!!!
PDGA #11957.

And Jerry, the Beast just came out this season. The JLS has been available for years and QJLS have been available since 2001. Get the facts straight. Just because you have a lower number, doesn't make you more of an authority!! {:]}

I chose to try the Beast because the others on this thread here were comparing them to Valks and JLS's, the discs I like to throw. I don't get the T-bird, never worked for me.

So hey, if you like your Valks, try the Beast!

[davei]

DX Beasts come in 150. Champion do not as we define 150 class as 150 gms and less. Champion Beasts go as low as 158 gms, but not as low as official 150 class. Also, there are very few lower than 160. Most of the lowest are 160 to 164 gms. Discette, you are first, but compared to me, you're still a little girl.

[tiltedhalo]

Dave, I picked up one of the very light Champion Beasts yesterday--162g, clear orange--and I must give you props for it. I have been skeptical of beast hype and think that a lot of players are throwing beasts not becuase they can throw them well, but because of the geewhiz factor of long-throws (even if it isn't quite in the right direction). Control is so much more important than distance, and the early Pro Beasts (mostly in the 170s) I had thrown were a bit squirrely, though long. This light Champion beast is far more predictable, and holds a much cleaner line (even though it is really light) than the earlier ones--whatever you tweaked in molding or plastic has paid off. I'm not saying that I think everyone should ditch their teebirds and get beasts, but I am saying that the Champion Beasts seem to have evolved beyond the Pro Beasts, and are worth a look for any player who loves to try new plastic.

[discette]

Got a 162 Champion Beast this weekend. This disc goes at least 50 extra feet farther than my longest Valkyrie. It is really a straight shooter. Very predictable fade at the end of a very, very long flight!

How can you not want to throw a disc that goes farther? I was outdriving women that have been outdriving me for years. Too bad they don't have this new Beast in their bags.

Although the Beast has taken my driving game to the next level, I still need to make the freakin 10 foot putts./msgboard/images/clipart/sad.gif

Discette...Ditto here!

Ford
#51

[jefferson]

what, if any, is the difference between the pro-line beast and the champion beast?

Hey Discette! Got myself a Beast yesterday! Mwaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhaaahahahaha! /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Yahnni, I've found that the new run of Champion Beast(174-175 red and orange) not as stable as the 1st run Pro Beast(174-175 white).
I've not been able to find the Champion in white so I don't know if it's a color issue

The DX Beast are still the bomb.
PCP

does stability vary by color and if so -- is that because a different mold is used for each color or a slightly different batch of plastic is used each time, or slight variations in humidity and temperature have an effect ... or ...?

i also have a 162g champion red beast. great disc.

[rhett]

Different colors cool at different rates, and that makes a difference. Pink Cyclones fly farther.

[discette]

Good gravy, Angela has a Beast.

Now I won't be able to outdrive her anymore!/msgboard/images/clipart/sad.gif

[gokayaksteven]

what retailers have light champ beasts?

I bought mine at Disc N Dat:

http://www.discndatonline.com/

[oxalate]

Zonedriven

[rickb]

We've got them at Disclanding. Lowest weights at the moment are around 160. That's also all that Innova east has at the moment.

I just picked up a really clear orange 168 champion beast last weekend, and it is way different than all the beasts I have seen. I have a pro line I matched it up with, I've matched it up with a champion, and the new orange is like jello. It is insanely soft, feels like one of the first runs of the JK valk. Anyone have similar beasts?

This Thread really makes no sense, since most of you aren't specifying champion or other. You can find valks that range from firebird stable (2nd run) to the newest CE valks which are super flippy. But if you want my opinion the new champion beasts rule! I just almost parked hole 12 at Pease in the long position with a new 171 red. I was about 30 feet short.

CJP #20913

[thcplz]

WELL, DEEEEECK
I KNOW THAT'S ABOUT 550, BUT SOME PEOPLE DON'T!!!!

Sister Christian, did you make the putt? /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Don't you know that you're the only nut to say, okay.

You're motoring. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

I have been throwing T-Bird's for some time now (usually Dyed, or CE plastic) I love em' ! They hold a glide for what seems to be forever.

During the Tar Heel Open here in (not so sunny) NC , Walt Haney handed me a Beast (DX) and told me to give it a shot. On first feel of the disc, what really stood out to me was the low profile, and the size of the rim. The wider rim for me produced a better feeling disc in the hand.

Well after throwing this in the feild, I realized this was a great disc! I had to have a few more to complete the test. I went out and bought 4 more (DX) and 2 Champion Edition.

WIth every new DX I threw, I got the same results. Held the line great. To my surprise the CE plastic flipped like a stingray for me. In most cases, it never came out of the anhyzer.
Little disappointed by that, though not surprised with the results. Walt mentioned he thought the DX seemed to be more stable anyways.

So after 100's of throws, I can say that I really do like the DX Beast! I will certianly put a couple in my bag!!

-m

VIKING and STARFIRE coming out, just to add to the confusion...

[davei]

In an effort to quell the confusion: The Starfire is a more stable Champion Beast-like disc. Therefore it flies more like a DX Beast. The bad news for some and good news for others: It will only be produced in candy this year, and will only be available as a tournament fundraiser. The Viking will be available in DX and Champion. The Viking is a more stable Valkyrie-like disc.

[mule1]

When are you coming out with the Knave?

[snoophaney]

Stan, I think Dave should make a disc called the "Stanimal" after you of course. Watcha think?

[rob]

"Stanimal" could be a fund raiser disc for the "[*****] you, Stan McDaniel Classic", held at Renny, of course.

"The Viking is a more stable Valkyrie-like disc."

Sounds exactly like a DX Beast, is it the same disc with a new name!!

yeah, that's what it sounds like to me roger.

[gokayaksteven]

i too love the dx beast and think the champ. is squirelly to say the least. how will the viking differ from the valk and beast? [speed, stability, etc.] how will the starfire differ? dave--please tell us the why-what-how of these new models. thanks

[gokayaksteven]

oh yea--i thought the beast was supposed to be a more stable valk-like disc? and the starfire is a champion plastic disc that flys like a dx beast? i think the champ. beast should fly like the dx beast---would be my fave. mine now is the dx beast--but it is hard to get a new one after a round--as the new flight does not last very long

[mule1]

The Stanimal would make a whining noise while in flight.

OK.. just thought I should jump back in on this. After a few months with both in my bag, and some tournaments behind me..the intial wow factor has really died off. I think its time to stop comparing the beast and valk to each other. Sure the beast is fast..but consider the fact that it has very little high speed turn, and surprising lack of glide. Or perhaps its the fact that once it begins to bail on the anhyzer it just dive bombs, and it still confuses me how it stays straight for as long as it does..and still bites extra-firebird-stable when thrown with hyzer. When I took it to the mouuntains some 10,000 up I realized how confused I was on the glide issue. I say think of it as a faster teebird...thats it. But Im probably back to a good valk though I await the viking thing..while my beast is currently a-waiting in the bushes somewhere off a cliff...my arm is still tired too.

ok hold on, It was probably around 8,500 or more but it was pretty much skipping backwards...and holding a line for about 75 feet when I threw it full speed. Im sure I keep rolling with it.

[thcplz]

I threw my new dx beast, STABLE!!!!
went to the next hole, whack hit the only tree out there(break out the hot sauce). i ran up to look, big as$ taco in it. i bent it out, throw it again still stable just not as, doing really well for me now.
REMEMBER: NO TREES DX IS GOOD.
TREES(even if it's only 1) STICK WITH THE PROLINE OR CHAMPION.

[Moderator005]

Now that CE Valkyries are no longer available, I'm burning through too many DX Valkyries. So I went out and picked up two 175g Pro Beasts. Looking back through this thread, most people characterize their Pro Beasts as stable to understable. I found nothing of the sort; only in a strong headwind was I able to get these discs to flip. Are the new run of Pro Beasts much more overstable?

-Jeff

[morgan]

See how your arm fades once you hit 30? It's too bad, that monster arm you had in your 20's was impressive, too bad it's gone...the one that flipped over those animal discs like the beat DX Valkeries.

Now that you hit your 30's, the ony lid you can flip over is the lid of a can of Romano, grated over your linguini. Welcome to middle age, dude.

[rhett]

What's wrong with using the JK Valk? My 168s fly closer to a first-run CE than any other CE run. And they make a mean cut roller.

[Moderator005]

JK Valks just don't fly the same for me, Rhett. Sounds like that goes for the others too - how many people claim to get the same distance with JK Valks? You hear a lot more people lauding the Beast. I was hoping to get in on the action, but not with the Pro Beasts I got; they're definitely very fast discs, but way too stable. I do get some distance out of them, but without any flip they're just not max distance drivers for me.

Morgan,

Don't you have anything better to do? I don't ruin the threads you post on with stupid jokes. Nobody laughs at anything you write. Nobody cares about anything you post. Nobody believes a word you say. You're a douchebag - now go back to the hole you crawled out of.

[reddman]

Jeff, try some of the lighter Beasts. Most of my drivers are 170 or 171. I have two 171 Pro Line Beasts. I have a 166 Beast and a 165 Beast that I can turn right just fine. The lighter ones are both Champion plastic.

Jeff, got a Champion Beast (1st run - if that makes a difference). I don't find them to be too stable. Even I, with my wimpy arm, get 20 feet or so more with a very nice 'S' curve, than with my JK Champion Valk. I don't know how overstable these things are in the pro plastic, but I am quite happy with the one I have.

[morgan]

Jeff,

If you can't flip a Beast it's probably because you are using too much hyzer. Throw it flatter, or with some anhyzer, and it will turn over faster than Peter Pan at a leather party.

Nobody said it was understable (like a stingray or leopard) it's just not as stable or as overstable as a Teebird or Eagle. It's much less stable than an Eagle, which I think is the standard that people use. I base everything on the eagle. Compared to eagles, the beast is understable.

[warwickdan]

Jeff...I've obviously seen you throw a few. have you tried the Z-Wildcat? i was also using the CE Valk as my primary driver. When i heard that they were being phased out i started trying other discs, including the Beasts (Pro and DX). The Z-Wildcat seems to fly closer to the Valk flight path for me than any others i tried. Except it goes farther for me than the Valk. I can almost reach #17 silver pin from the silver tee, which i couldn't do with the CE Valk. i've experimented with various weights of Z-Wildcats from low 160's to mid 170's. upper 160's works best for me.

[davei]

Jeff, the Viking is another alternative, available to TDs and course Pros, but not a fundraiser.

[dannyreeves]

What is the Viking?

viking
"VI-ki-ng"
Tough warriors that almost took over England, that could kick your [*****]

[Moderator005]

Dan,

I've thrown Z-Wildcats and like them a lot, and they give me great distance. Unfortunately they were also too flippy for me, even when brand new and max weight. And when a Wildcat turns over, it doesn't come back; not so with my Valkyries, which always end with a slight fade. It tried releasing the Wildcats with hyzer but got frustrating playing that game - you get more power (and accuracy) when you release flat anyway.

It just seems to me that the new Pro Beasts are nothing like earlier runs, or the ones I got are too heavy. I can still use them, just not as my primary distance driver on holes around 400' or longer. I'll have to use the Beasts on holes less than 400 and throw them with anhyzer, which was not what I was looking for.

Dan, can you order us some Vikings?

-Jeff

[davei]

Kid Roc, it's a new disc. It's a little more stable Valkyrie type disc for the big arms that flip Valks a little too easily. Not as straight as a TeeBird, but straighter than a Valk.

Which plastics are you running the Vikings in Dave?

[Dick]

does the viking have that big rim that the beast does? my grip doesn't work well with the wide rim.

[davei]

Bruce and Rich, the Viking is in Champion plastic so far. The rim is the same as the Valkyrie width.

[Dick]

ok, i NEED some vikings!!!

yes! yes! More wide rims, please. My big fat pickle-sausage fingers can't throw anything with a skimpy-wimpy-thin rim.

A few posts back..."Compared to eagles, the beast is understable. "
??????
Eagles lick! they're only good for rollers within a month of throwing them. Beasts rock!

Flex, the eagles with the bevled edge are way more stable then the ones with the sharp edge.

ahhh...

Ehh...the only thing my champ eagle was good for(while I had it) was to find trees. So I traded it with to a friend for a Z-XS. I can almost throw any shot with the Z-XS.

I also have a 150 Valk that I use to throw very straight with a little fade left.

Z-Wildcat is still unpredictable for me. Threw it on Alt 10 at Cornwallis(Durham, NC). It faded left hard and landed around 40-50 feet from the pin. This past weekend, I threw it on hole 12 at Zebulon and it went straight with small fade left.

I have a 170 Pro Beast that throws just like the Valk but with a shorter distance.