Search for the Perfect Driver...for a noodle-arm.

[hazard]

Whee, let's have a thread where this limp-armed nut Bob asks far too general questions to put them all in a single thread.

First, a random trivia question because I'm curious:

When did the clear candy plastic first put in an appearance? I've seen it in Q, Z, CE, and now the new Pro discs, but I'm not sure how long it's been around.

Now for the real questions...What's an ideal driver for a relatively weak arm / new player (I believe my distance tops out somewhere between 250 and 300, and that's with a slight downhill slope or a favorable wind on a shot where I manage to get a really good spin and just the right angle on the QJLS I'm borrowing from a friend...actually the most accurate measurement I'm fairly certain of was around 270 slightly downhill with a kick off a tree just as it started to fade that leveled the flight back out and probably gained me 15 feet, but I digress.) I can't get more than a tiny bit of flex out of a brand new Valkyrie of any run or plastic I've tried throwing backhand, although I can turn things over much more easily with my forehand. For me the ideal driver would have a fairly shallow rim, be fast out of the hand, fly stable to slightly understable at high speeds, glide like it thinks the ground will give it cooties, and (this being the one thing the QJLS doesn't seem to provide as well as a Valk) the fade at the end should be as gentle as possible. With the hype the Beast is getting I wonder if it might be the ticket for me. I learned to play driving used Tee-Birds and still like the way they feel, by the way.

I was going to ask about midranges too, but I think instead I'll just mention that I recently got both a KC Roc and a ZMRV new and I think the people who told me the MRV should be easier to turn over were either off their rockers or throwing a lot harder than I do, because for me they come out of the hand just alike but the MRV fades quicker and sharper. 'Course I've been throwing a used KC Roc and I'm accustomed to it so I may just need more practice with the MRV. It actually does seem to fly kind of like the Roc did when I first got it.

And I shall also make a brief ramble about putters. I started out with a borrowed Aviar and then moved on to a very very used Soft Magnet, which always seemed a little more overstable but fairly reliable and excellent for tomahawk approaches on the side, but I finally moved on and I'd like to say that the Rhyno (mostly for anhyzer putts and approach shots) and an old non-thumbtrac Birdie have pleased me very much. The Birdie, for my putting style, has this uncanny quirk to it. The range at which my putting stroke cannot keep the disc straight all the way in is within a couple of feet of the range at which I am no longer accurate enough even with a dead straight flight to consider making the putt better than an outside chance. This phenomonon, combined with the fact that only a stiff breeze or a major misjudging of distance has ever made me overthrow by much, has finally brought my game to the point where almost all my missed putts look as if I meant to lay up anyway.

Getting back to the driver question...I have high hopes for the CE Eagle and KC Teebird I just ordered...but to be honest finding something better than the QJ would be an unexpected bonus at this point; the only places I find it likely that anything could work better for me than the QJ are on those rare holes that are long enough I can't keep the QJ straight the whole way while still short enough for me to dream of making birdie, but also tight enough down the left side that I can't fire it out that way and let it slide back in...the holes where I keep winding up pin high and 25 feet to the right of he basket. And I know of, what, maybe two of those that I see more than infrequently.

P.S. I need to stop posting when I'm in a talkative mood. This is a ridiculous amount of extraneous information and other drivel to throw in with a simple question. I could sum all this up as "Blah blah blah What's a good fast, long-gliding, slow-fading, stable to slightly understable distance driver for a relatively weak arm? Preferably in high-grade plastic? Is the Beast a good candidate? Oh, and blah blah blah some more, too."

If valks don't work as a stable to understable driver for you, CE Tees and Eagles are NOT the way to go, since they're not as fast and are more overstable than Valks. Also, the Beast is faster, but it's also more overstable, than the Valk.

Suggestions--drivers: try the Polaris LS (1.13s are candy), non-candy JLS (less durable, but easier to control), or elite x XS (Z XSs are domier, more overstable, and slower than their elite x counterparts. Practically a different disc.),

Midrange turnover disc: try the classic roc, aero, elite x storm, stratus, or comet.

Putters: xd, spider (!), wizard/chief, or elite x putt'r. XD is low profile (think rhyno w/o the thumbtrac); spider and putt'r are medium depth, wizard/chief are deepest.

As with all disc recommendations, YMMV.

Bob:

As a noodle-arm myself, I would just say that Felix has offered some really good advice, but that I believe you also need to give some thought to disc weight. Valks in the 150-160 range may be just the ticket. I carry a DX 149 Valk for tailwind situations. I have also a 154-gm Archangel, but I have to be careful not to turn it over. When I get the right angle, it will really sail nicely, but it takes a wide alley and I use it only on open fairways. The 149 Valk goes much straighter, but does not glide as well. Into the wind, I have found a 164-gm Pro Line KC TeeBird to work well (big arms would find it way too flippy, but for noodle arms, it seems to work well). When it is really windy, I have a CE Firebird FX (165-gm or so) that will work well IF I release it low and flat into the wind. Have just picked up a proto Edge (165 gm) and will give it a try into the wind. It is made of an interesting plastic like no other I have encountered.

For midrange, I love the Z-MRV, which is overstable for me. When I need something understable, I have long used the Aurora MS and have recently picked up a Z-Hawk to give it a try (I love the bright Z-plastic, which makes discs so much easier to find). On really windy days I sometimes carry a Demon, which is highly overstable no matter what.

For putting, I really like the feel of the Z-Putt'r, and the way it drops flat, for long putts (or for short putts where I need to bend around to the right); but for shorter putts, I prefer a soft Wizard. I have been through just about every putter made, and those are the two I keep coming back to. The X-Putt'r, although shaped identical to the Z, has that sticky rubber feel, and tends to hang up too much -- the slippery Z-plastic works better for my fingers.

Good luck in finding the right discs -- both model and weight -- for you.

As a weak-armed player, my favorites are a 165ish XS (X plastic, not Z), a 150-class DX leopard, and a 150-class DX valk. I'm also told that the 150-class JK and CE valks are good.

If the XS is still more stable then you want, try an express.

[rhett]

DX Valk.

[jpg420]

throw all dx plastic, give up on ce it is to stable for weak arms

Quit aiming and throw as hard as you can. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Z-xtreme or the whippet x.....gotta flex it ladies.....

[pterodactyl]

Carlo, you stud. Try archangels, stingrays, cobras, cheetahs, and dragons. Light weight is good strategy. Learn to roll............

Carlo:

Your suggestions did give me a good chuckle -- no offense taken. What you need to realize, though, is that for sissy arms like mine, there is no need to buy a Z-Xtreme, because the Z-Reaper in my bag is already as overstable for me as the Z-Xtreme is for you. My goodness, were I to throw a Z-Xtreme, I might hurt somebody standing behind me...

[J A B]

In defense/support of the Z-xtreme for weaker arms. This disc is my "sand wedge". I my not use it on every throw but, it has it's place. On topic, lighter is better and proper form is best of all.

On a serious note, I really think that the Xs in the elite plastic can help the "weak sausage" type thrower. Another disc that people should try would be the Z-Xpress. This disc is so underated. It has glide along with speed for the average arm, and Pterodactyl your right learning to roll is key for the developement of a top pro. So today i will go out and play a all roller round with my elite STRATUS or my Zxpress. Thanks for the time.

[pterodactyl]

Glad I could help the Rookie of the Year!

[hazard]

I'd be interested to know how your roller works for putting. :D

After due consideration I probably won't be trying out much in the way of new discs. I have just today traded the affectionately nicknamed "Camo Q" QJLS (it's green and leaf-orange) from a friend of mine. It's a 168 and it does it all. Between my two different overhand releases it performs beautifully for either a straight blade or a turnover tomahawk, it is consistently my longest and straightest disc forehand (though the KC Cheetah and KC Roc give it a run for its money sometimes, I can't throw them as long on a RHFH anhyzer) and it has lately become my best RHBH driver as well. In short, this disc does it all for me, and I'd have to find a disc that would fly EXACTLY the same except either longer or with a slower fade to be happier with anything else. Still, thanks for all the suggestions.

Oh, and by the way, I used to use a Whippet regularly. It was the disc with which I became notorious amongst the friends I normally played with for my uncanny ability to tomahawk out of the woods as reliably as I shanked my drives into them. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif This would be the same period of time during which the Stingray was my top choice for straight fairways. These days...well, between the Roc and the QJ, I may not have my best disc for every shot, but any shot I can't make with either of them is a specialty shot for me anyhow.

Maybe I'll make another long pointless post telling people with nothing better to do than read it just what is in my bag these days. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Oh dear...I'm starting to show the same far-too-long posting tendencies I used to have on some other messageboards I frequented.

* 150-class JK and CE valks are good *

I'd say exellent, good roller's too. If you want a slightly more stable light weight disc, try a 150 class candy CE Leopard, if you can find one.

[lowe]

Bob,
I'm a noodle arm too.
Try KC Cheetahs. 150 class are good to start with, and don't get heavier than 165g.
Archangels are good too.
I'd say stay away from CE, it's too overstable.
I've settled on the Proline (or SE) Leopard. ideal weight 167 g.
The heavier the disc the more overstable it will be. We noodle arms need understable plastic.
The lighter the disc in the same mold the more undestable it will be.

It's been while since we considered drivers appropriate for noodle arms. I have found the Z-Flash (171-gm) to be a great disc for D with my noodle arm lately, and am also having good success with a 150-gm Champion JK Valk. It's fasta for pasta... :D

[rhett]

Try a 162-165 Archangel.

how is it that a 171g Z-Flash compares with a 150g Champ JK Valk??

[peter_h]

The Flash has considerably less late flight fade than candy Valkyries, which would probably make up for at least some of the heavier weight.

As others have said, candy plastics and "noodle-arms" don't generally mix well...

Checking out lighter discs is also excellent advice. Haven't seen anyone recommending the fairly new Pro line Teebird-L yet. A bit slower than Valk and Flash, but compensates that with very good glide.

For midrange alternatives, Z-Buzz would probably be a much much better choice than Z-MRV for something that turns over more than a KC Roc. X-MRV is also a nice, quite straight flyer.

Good luck!

I have found my flash to be my farthest flying backhand driver, I am just learing to thorw backhand so I guess i have a noodel arm, nice glide but does cut hard at the end. For controled drives throwing side arm I use an xl, goes straight and is easy to control. For the long holes or thoes holes I want a nice low drive nothing beats the x xs, if i keep from turning it over it has a great flight and just hovers along the ground.

For midrange I use a z hawk. The only reason I do is because I got it cheap.

Putting it seems I am one of the few who use a u2 upshot. Not much lift but its is not really affected by wind, and is fairly stable, but it wont hold a hyzer line for me.

I guess thats my 2 cents probley worth about that too, but o well.

Elite X Cyclone or E-Sabre for long shots
Elite X Comet or Glide for medium shots.
X-puttr or Wizards for putting.

Haven't seen Element yet so I don't know anything about that.

The Flash has considerably less late flight fade than candy Valkyries, ...As others have said, candy plastics and "noodle-arms" don't generally mix well...



Looks like the Flash only comes in candy (Elite Z) plastic, would that really be an issue if I got one in 150 class?

how is it that a 171g Z-Flash compares with a 150g Champ JK Valk??



I wasn't comparing them. I merely said that both were drivers that I had found good success with recently. The Flash has more fade at the end, but really seems to be a disc I can "lean into" and get out there a good distance. The 150 Valk is a different sort of flyer, understable off the tee but with some fade at the end (not nearly as much as my 160 CE Valk). I use them under different conditions (wind speed and direction, wide/narrow fairway, etc.)

As to the Archangel, which somebody else mentioned, I have found the ligher ones to be too understable and the heavier ones just not as good a flyer as some other discs.

And given that DiscinDeadhead will probably jump in soon to mention Gateway, I will say that in the past I have enjoyed throwing a 165-gm H Apache on tight holes, but that disc got lost. On those same holes, I now often throw my Z-Buzzz, and I am amazed at how far the thing will glide. What a nice disc, for noodle arms and turbo tossers alike...

Looks like the Flash only comes in candy (Elite Z) plastic, would that really be an issue if I got one in 150 class?



I don't believe they make them in 150 class yet. Before my distance got up to 300'+ I found the Flash (168g first run orange) to have a farily overstable flightpath. I would throw a 175g DX Leopard (I found it, didn't buy it that heavy) for my straight shots. I learned to stretch my distance from 250' out to 300' or so using that disc and thought it worked wonderfully for that. I also threw a DX Cheetah and a X-XL, which were both great, but for some reason the Leopard jived with me a lot better even though the XL might have been longer.

I like the idea of the Pro TL in lighter weights as a beginner's driver, too. It flies like a longer, slighly more resistant to high speed turn Leopard for me. Like the Leopard, it works best for me when I lay off the power a bit, so I'm guessing it would work well for beginners.

Sounds like I'd also qualify as a "noodle arm". Until recently I was throwing mainly Valkyries as my driver from 168g-175g. A good drive for me was probably in the neighborhood of 250ft.

I've recently switched over to 150 class drivers (in dx plastic), and it's done wonders. I'd say with my 148 Beast I'm getting very close to 350ft now. I also throw a 150 Valk for turnovers, and a 150 Flick for hyzers.

[cbdiscpimp]

I would have to say a Lighter weight FLASH would be perfect for any so called NOODLE ARM. Heck its even a great disc for big arms if they can learn how to throw it right. The Flash helped people i know reach distances they never believed they could get before. I would say anyone with a noodle arm should really give these a try. From Innova i would say maybe a light weight Viking or Beast. Maybe even an ORC???

Candy plastic is okay for weaker arms if you get light weights in the right model. My personal favorite drivers are 150 JK/Champion Valkyrie, 150 Pro TL Teebird, 150-155 Champion Leopard, and 160-165 X-XS. I've never thrown one, but I think a 150 Champion Beast would be good, too.

Driver: 165-170 X Xpress
Midrange: 170-175 E Element
Putter: 172+ S Wizard

Don't throw what the top dogs are throwing and expect the same results. Throw what works for you. These are only my suggestions but you should have success with all of these.

Ok, sounds like one of these 150 JK/Champion Valkyrie, 150 Pro TL Teebird, 150 Champion Leopard, or Z-Flash if they have 150 class. The 160-165 Z-Xpress is probably understable enough, but right now I'm mostly curious to see how I fare with the lighter discs. I'll see what the store has and whatever is the cheapest. :D

Don't throw what the top dogs are throwing and expect the same results. Throw what works for you. These are only my suggestions but you should have success with all of these.



Well, I've been throwing a 167 X-XL, and a 168 "S" Sabre, both of which are very nice discs, that I can't do much with. That's why I'm going for the noodle arm stuff. :o

[greenbeard]

168g DX Teebird, the great noodlearmer's equalizer.

[tokyo]

What is a noodle arm?

What is a noodle arm?



It's tape worms in the arm ;)