What discs for big D

Ok, so I know that The XL,XS, and now Valkyrie are world record holders, but what discs are guys with average arms and sloppy technique throwing to get the best distance.

DX Valk is a very easy disc to throw far. I throw CE Valks for my really long throws, but DX is much easier for the average arm.

teebird, eagles,

hell is was throwing 400 when i first started with a scorpion, now i hit teebirds and eagles over 500 fairly easy

Any light long/very long/ultra-long range, not too overstable driver will work as long as you're nbot throwing into a strong headwind.

Jedidiah, if you haven't tried SE Valks or the soft 150 class CE Valks yet, check them out. Longer, faster, and more durable than DX, and easier on the arm than stiff CE. Can't wait 'til I get my hands on some soft, clear 160-165g JK Valks!

My CE valks are 4th run I think. They aren't hard on my arm at all. How do the 150c CE Valks compare stability wise to the 167-169 CE Valks, and DX Valks?

Randy, try an older style JK Valk or SE Valk. Not the clear plastic of the newer ones, but they are like the KC plastic used to be. I picked up a 169 JK Valk and it instantly became my longest disc. I do not have a big arm at all, so I don't have to worry too much about excessive turnover with it. A buddy of mine that throws over 400' (real distance, not message board distance) has problems with his turning over too much, but he gets a ton more snap than I do. He uses his as a roller now.

400' as a beginner with a Scorpion? They don't call you TK Boom for nuttin'! /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Jedidiah, the soft, grippy CE plastic seems to be a tad more stable than the stiff CE plastic of the same weight. I've got a 149g, a 158g, and a 161g in the soft plastic, and they are comparable to my 4th run (stiff) 162g, 167g, and 171g CEs, respectively, in terms of stability. YMMV

Randy, unlike Dan, I've had better success with the new, transparent JK Valks than the older, opaque ones, maybe because the new JKs are straight Candy plastic rather than a blend. In any event, the transparent stuff glides longer and fades less at the end for me. Which brings me to the standard disclaimer which should appear following all opinions on disc performance: YMMV. /clipart/wink.gif

[andyn]

My longest throws have come with Z-XS or CE Teebird.
Into a wind, CE Firebird FX for distance.

[sandalman]

better bring an Extreme (or if you really HAVE to , a RAM). texas is long, but you also have to get up and over and back down fast a lot of times.

[gokayaksteven]

okay--there are some new discs out there-and i wonder what discs you guys think are the longest now. also which seems to be fastest and which has the most glide. talon and wildcat[x and z], beast[pro and dx], se valk, pro valk, 150 gummy valk, etc. also--what do y'all think is the least stable disc in z or proline plastic[leopard, express?]

[circle_2]

I guess endorsing the Tee-Bird is old school, now. Am still looking foreward to a mid 160s Beast, though. I never found the CE Leopards to be very understable...like it's SE and DX brothers...

[dannyreeves]

SE Valk is very fast and understable. as far a big golf D. TL's are wonderful. Sure, I can get an extra 25 feet out of a Valkyrie with a big S but it isnt a whole lot of control. I would rather throw a teebird straight and keep the consistancy. I can't wait to get a Proline Beast though.

I throw mostly t-birds. I have a ton of the old kc birds that are my babies. I have been uning the new kc plastic a little pretty fast!!!! When I need to throw a bomb it is t-bird all the way. As for understable I think that the jk valks, not the new "pro" line. The ones before the clear ones are Flippy!!! That is what I roll with and throw long anhyzers.

I personally think that the big D record this year will be set with a Discraft Wildcat. If you haven't tried this disc, give it a shot. I agree with Kid Roc, the Valks are kind of hard to get pinpoint accuracy with, but this seems easier (for me) with a Wildcat. There are many holes now where it stays in my bag so as not to get thrown past the pin. IMHO.

[gokayaksteven]

my pro beast 166 is my longest so far--with more control than a valk. i just got a wildcat and can't wait to try that.

[hazard]

My longest is a JK Valk right now, with a KC Tee-Bird (11x) and my QJLS probably about tid for second place.

By the way, what's the difference between FX and FL on a CE Firebird?

[pnkgtr]

X extra overstable
L less overstable

[mule1]

With good form, the JK Valk is a great distance disc. The new Pro Beast is pretty amazing. I am getting 10-15' more with the Pro Beast than with my JK Valk's. This is from a guy that max's around 400'.

400? Stan come on now, that is only if you have taken your vioxx right? /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

400 is only an Aviar...But then again maybe why thats why I am soooo COOL/msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

[thcplz]

i'm getting lots distance from my jk valk, but the new distance disc is the wildcat. i think it flys like a ce valk but is more stable.
when i'm wanting to throw the valk but afraid of going anni, i pick up the wildcat.

[gokayaksteven]

z-wildcat vs. pro beast?

[mule1]

Ben, you got a point there, I failed to mention that the 400'er needs a litle downhill and a little left to right tailwind action. But other than that, what have the Roman's done for us lately?

[hazard]

you people and your cannons...I mean arms...I don't think I can even hit 300 on a regular basis yet, although my forehand does seem to be getting gradually stronger. My backhand I now consider a lost cause. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

A ? I'm maxing out now at 400 with control to 360. I'm throwing and throwing but can't seem to see the mystical 450-600. Any thoughts as to higher trajectory or maybe flippy vs overstable or which goes further s turn or big hyzer? WHAT DO I NEED ???????????

> WHAT DO I NEED ???????????

You need to read every darn post in the distance secrets thread (http://www.pdga.com/discus/messages/621/4224.html).

[gokayaksteven]

understable or stable? i get more power from a hyzer release--so should i throw power hyzers with an understable disc to make it stand up and glide or go for a more flat throw with a stable disc? also--how does the pro beast compare to a z-wildcat?

[ryangwillim]

I have only been playing a year, so I don't know near as much as most of you I am presuming, but for me a fast strong and moderately low S-curve gets me much more distance than a hyzer shot, I'm thinking it's becuase it keeps it in the air longer.
There is a hole (hole 6) at MorleyField in SanDiego that is a slight uphill shot into a grove of short trees, I have never been able to make it to the tree-line till yesterday when I threw an S-curve with my new Pro Beast(172g). Not only did I make it to the tree-line, I blew past it by about 20 feet or so. Just some thoughts

[davidbihl]

I am not claiming to be an expert here, cause I don't generate "huge D" but In my opinion, flexibility in your body is critical for throwing far. It also helps with the ability to throw far many times in a row, like during a round. Sounds like your on the right track with disc selection. I think the XS from discraft goes a little farther than others "for me" but most drivers fly about the same distance, so for me, it is more about what I can put right where I want it. Maybe one of these superfreak arms can speak to this disc.

[davidbihl]

get a roller working for ya Ryan, I can get bigger D with a roller under the right conditions.

I'm just the opposite... Can't get a roller nearly as far as an air drive.

I think you know that the difference between your 'normal' drives and your 'monster drive' on hole 6 was the big 'S' pattern. Find a disc that you can throw out a long ways turned over but will still slowly come back. The key is getting the nose of the disc down when it is way out there. S pattern Keep the nose down = huge

My longest toss has been with an XS but mainly use a straight drive with a Talon or Predator for golf shots.

[ryangwillim]

David;
I am a pretty good roller, however I just lost my last remaining roller disc, of course the best one I had...
http://www.pdga.com/discus/messages/56/7790.html?1041958961
With that disc I could hit 400' with fair accuracy. I am ordering a couple more rollers today so I should have them next week ready for testing. I would like to get to the 400' range airborne because of accuracy and topographical issues. I have hit it twice now with big S-curves and a CE valk, now that I know it is possible for me it is easier to practice it.
Greg;
what you said about keeping the nose down is what I meant by "moderately low" it is so much easier to get good distance with a low burner S-curve then a high and slow one as I see so many people try to throw.
My next feat is to master a 400' sidearm S-curve /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Keeping it low and keeping the nose down are actually 2 different things. For max distance (open field) I throw a high turnover with the nose down.

And good plan with developing the sidearm. It opens up so many more lines.

[davidbihl]

If you ever go ball golfing, or stick golfing, bring your roller out on the course, you can get some serious d on that turf, it is really sweet...

[ryangwillim]

I just hit 400' this morning again with a fast and low S-curve. I think that is my shot as it is becoming quite consistent. Using the CE 165g Valk.
I bought two discs yesterday to replace my roller. A 165g Stringray and a 150g Archangel, they will be hear for testing by tomorrow!

[rhett]

Ryan,

A Stingray will roll W-a-a-a-a-y different than a Valk. Don't give up on it, though. It has a sweet rolling characteristic that is very different from the Valk. There is room in the bag for both though.

[ryangwillim]

Yeah, I have never thrown an Archangel or a Stingray, so this is mostly just to see what they will do. I also have a 150g Beast coming in the mail to me, so we will see what that does. Either airborne or roller.

my longest toss is 600ft that was with a nice 1st run eagle. i cant wait to throw the beast i heard that there pretty fast and go a long way. my farthest roller is 900ft , that was with a beat up 1st run eagle.

No offense, "but this one time at band camp".
!

Don't sweat it Ben, Phil doesn't believe anyone could throw an Innova disc that far. Guess he hasn't checked out the current distance record holder. (...personally, I think he owns Dcraft stock. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif)

Don't be a playa hata', Philly.

Don't hate the playa, hate the game. Wait..No. Don't hate the game either. Ummm.... how bout this: Don't playa hate, playa participate!

Better. Much better.

[keithjohnson]

bnesides the only place long enough in florida for ben to roll like that would be either titusville(before removal)or sarasota disc/ball golf courses......helll i can roll over 700 feet at titusville so i know ben can do it as he is ten times the player i am

thanks keith for the props!!

[keithjohnson]

just telling the truth ben......don't you have school tomorrow??? it's 1:30 in gville

10 times nothing is...

Nevermind. Too easy.

[ryangwillim]

Ben;
So you rolled a 900' drive! That is crazy, and you must've missed the basket by what? something like 600' ?
lol just messin' with ya

[gokayaksteven]

have been giving some of these new discs some serious testing [golf and field] and have come up with some conclusions i would like to share and maybe get feedback on. my favorite for controlled golf drives is the wildcat[172-174]. they are at least as fast as my old ce valks. they have at least as much glide also. the great thing though is the control/stability. they are more resistant to hi-speed turn than the valk. when thrown hard with a little hyzer they tend to flatten and go long and straight. very controllable and consistant for me. with the valk, a similar throw would either turn over, hyzer out too soon, or be perfect. i find the cat to be at least as long and much less squirrelly at high speed [ especially when wind is a factor]. this disc has really made my longest shots much more consistant, and that perfect flight seems to happen much more often. this is a great go-to driver. i've been throwing z and x and find them very similar with the z being a hair more overstable. i was surprised at how close in all respects that they were. i bought 5 of each from different places and found them all to be identical! what a concept. to be fair i must say i saw a few at one store that had more dome than others though. i love being able to get a disc in 2 different plastics that flys the same when new. i still break out the ce f-bird [2nd run] for shots that demand an overstable disc. now for the beast. i found that in the same weight, the dx beast when new is very similar to the cat, maybe a hair longer. only thing is these are toast after any type of impact[gravel,tree,rock,etc]. they beat-up so fast that consistancy is a problem. i tried the pro-beast, but the few i had flew even squirrellier than my ce valks.i had some throws turn over way to easy, while others hyzered out. really hard to get that perfect medium. they would turnover, do a huge s coming back really hard at the end[and go real far], while i wanted a more consistant, straighter distance shot that the cat and dx beast provided. no matter how quickly they beat-up though, i will always have a newish 150 dx beast in my bag for windless or downwind throws where i need all the d i can get. very consistant for a 150. noticeably more distance, stability and control than my 150 gummy valks. my previous longest throw was a big s-turn about 425 with a pro-valk. today i threw an x-cat straight for 445, [we have measurements on a field]and a 150 dx beast about 470. it was also a straighter flight than i expected. thanks for listening----steven

Have you included the JK Valks? I find mine to have the one thing the CE Valks were missing: a consistant flight when it comes to high speed turn. The one I traded for doesn't have a weight, but it is at least 172 g. Thanks to a ruler and a pivot point, I compared a 168g disc to my JK Valk. The Valk would tip the scale until it slid off the end of the ruler. I think that the more I throw it, the longer I will be throwing. I need to try one in the 165 range for downwind shots.

[dannyreeves]

DX Beast - long hyzers
Z-Wildcat - Slight headwind
175 TL (last run) - No wind or slight tailwind
166 TL (3rd run) - tail wind
SE Valk - Power roller

[jasonc]

Hey KID, are we working on yet another Discraft convert???? You have to admit most of their newer plastic is sweet!!!

I could be considered yet another convert /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

[dannyreeves]

I am a convert b/c I listed 1 Discraft disc out of 5? haha. Shoot, I have more Gateway plastic in my bag than Discraft. But seriously, I don't care who makes it. If it flies well, I'll take it. Innova, Gateway, and Discraft make a lot of great discs.

[my_hero]

I'm a <FONT COLOR="ff0000">convertER!</FONT>

that makes me the converTEE

[thcplz]

just scrolling around and found this one.

i'm getting to love my proline beasts.
except when i play casual rounds, i have a couple local holes that i use for judgeing progress(distance one 1, accuracy on another,etc...) throwing 2 different times on the 475-500 holes.THE Z-XS HAS ROUTINELY OUT FLOWN THEM(beasts),ACE RUN ON CIRCLE C #17 the one i'm useing is painted on so it's illegal for pdga events.
I WILL BE GETTING A LEGAL ONE ASAP!!!!
btw:i already carry 2 Z_XL's

PUTTING THE "K" BACK IN QUALITY

METAL MIKE
(seeing alot of people throwing the Z-WILDCATS)

[discchucker]

The z-cat rules. I carry two of them. Much more consistent than my champion beasts.

[tafe]

I finally put myself in the circle on the 419 foot hole at my home course with my Z-Cat. Then proceeded to lose it the same day. Good thing I have ten or so. I think that the new D Cat is going to be the shizzle, UV or not.

[bruce_brakel]

Parked Kensington Tunnel 1 Long for the first time in the autobiography of me Thursday at league with an X-Cat. Those Cats are hot.

[Pimp on]

Will have a huge supply of Z-Cats in the Illinois Open (http://www.discontinuum.org/Events/ILOpen2003/index.html) merch stock. Some with cool fly-dye. (http://www.theshortpeople.com/gallery/album49/24_G)

[Pimp off]

[circle_2]

I get my best D from either a 160g Champion Beast or my 167g SE TL. The Beast is a tad more overstable than my 3 year old TL. For distance when I need some hyzer at the end, I dig my 161g KC T'Bird. All my Z-Wildcats have drowned in various bodies of water...must be a sign...or something.../msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

Everyone knows cats don't swim! ;)

[thcplz]

I'M LUVING MY <FONT COLOR="119911">Z-</FONT><FONT COLOR="0000ff">WILD</FONT><FONT COLOR="119911">KAT</FONT>.

i'm still getting the feel for it, but when i throw it right....oh,man is it fast.

5 disccraft out of 14 and counting.

LOOKS LIKE <FONT COLOR="ff0000">KAPTAIN</FONT> <FONT COLOR="0000ff">KUALITY</FONT>
HAS ANOTHER <FONT COLOR="aa00aa">CONVERTEE</FONT>

900 ft?!?!? *looks down at shoes and whimpers*

I like z xs and z xl for distance(for me 400 MAX after 3 bowls of wheaties). Or sometimes an x2 with a couple big trees in it.

All the dickraft plastic I own is waaaaaayyyyyyy too overstable (predator, reaper, w-cat). I'll stick with my Valks, Beasts, and T-birds.

What up, FOOS?

[dannyreeves]

Why doesn't Discraft make something like a Teebird? The XL is simialar but a little too slow and the Wildcat is a lot faster. For my preference, the Teebird has always been the best driver. It is fast but not so fast that it is hard to control. Great glide and it doesn't get as overstable as a Wildcat at the end of its flight. Just a long and straight flyer.

Just wondering, thanks.

I used to throw KC Teebirds for distance both on and off the DG course. I switched to the XS for off course distance and Wildcat for Golf Distance.

(The wildcat may replace the XS if I ever get time to practice)

I've been very happy with these discs. I switch to a Talon for more control or for into some wind.

[drivethruliquor]

Pretty sure their tryin' Kid /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

There's another new one coming out later this year...hopefully that'll be the one. Have you ever gotten your hands on the first run elite-x predators (no 1.5 with arrow on the top)? They fly great. Never thrown a teebird, but I've seen 'em fly and it seems very similar. It's what I throw the farthest anyway, which ain't really that far /msgboard/images/clipart/sad.gif

Now that i know my z talons i rarely throw anything else for straight or hyzer distance. My max last week(possibly ever) was near 420 but my accuracy has vastly improved using this disc between 320-370, this is probably the most predictable disc i've thrown. I've only been throwing them for 2 weeks now but boy oh boy the z talon is a great disc imo. Been throwing a ce leopard for annie distance.

A couple quick questions for the big guns... What weight are you throwing when you want to go 500 in the air? If it's open field what flight path do you use... s or hyzer bomb or...?

Innovas New Viking is Possibly the longest disc i have every thrown along the The Discrafts Z Wildcats But i get more glide and distance out of the Vikings.....whoever said they like T-birds should try throwing the viking same flight just about twice as much glide i think

I ditto that.....T to the V
hahaha

[spartan]

love the viking. Not recommended into wind or with heavy turn over. Should be thrown like an Eagle. Will glide long time.

[gokayaksteven]

how does the viking compare stability-wise to a 10x t-bird or cfr tl?

[dannyreeves]

it is faster and similar stablity to the new TL's. a little more overstable than the 10x T.

[testap]

The Vikings have replaced my 11X T-Birds.. I love them.. I have found two diff. runs of Vikings.. The run with little ridges on the top are way more stable than the ones without the ridges.. I think "D.D." said the ridged ones were first runs.. But both have their place.. I had a slight tailwind in a tourny last weekend and threw my "un-ridged" Viking on hole 16 at Jimmy Porter which is close to 500ft and birdied that biaacchh. I threw it about 12ft off the ground with a slight s turn and it finished to the left with a nice little skip towards the basket.. I mostly throw the ones with ridges because I snap pretty hard and tend to turn less stable ones over.

[spartan]

ridges? I have a toothpaste aqua colored one that is transparent and has very tiny grooves around the whole disc. Makes a similar sound to a running finger nails over dad's Lps. Are these the ridges you are talking about?

The Crush.

[andyn]

Not sure I qualify as big arm, but on occasion I can crush close to 500. Not at will and it does sacrifice accuracy. If accuracy is not my biggest concern I throw with annie (left-to-right or tailwind) and hope for a little S-back at finish.
My longest air throws have been with Z-XS, CE-Tee and X-Wildcat. Oops, forgot the extremly unpredictable, but very long Archangel. The X-Wildcat is what I use for distance on course, cause its more predictable.
I have not thrown Vikings or Valks or Beasts.

[testap]

yeah those are the ridges.. kinda makes a zipper sound when lightly scratched. These are working in the bag very nicely..

[spartan]

agreed. GO VIKING!!

Z-Wildcat, I birdied my longest hole EVER in competition on flat ground with this disc off an air shot. The hole was 575, the putt was 20 feet.

your "sick" Jim! this should come with a warning - "this will not be done by mere human beings."

[MTL21676]

JK Valk!
Mine is like 168 and I crush the [*****] outta it when i need to

[dannyreeves]

TL!

My farthest disc with out a doubt right now is the Elite X Wildcat 174 grams. It flies farther than my Z-Wildcat. When I get a nice s-curve on this disc it sails well over 400'. I think My Crush might surpass it soon though. I haven't had a chance to 'crush' my Crush though on any long holes yet. Ill tell you what I think after I do.

[ryangwillim]

Stephen.

My max drives fall into the 450' range (unless it's downhill /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif) and are usually accidental. However, When I am going for max distance I take an overstable disc (teebird, z-talon, z-wildcat) and give it a really hard anhyzer with the nose down.

The difference between an S-curve with a flippy disc like a valk, and an overstable disc, like a cat, is that you can predict where it's going to go before u throw with the overstable disc. It is very difficult, especially with a bit of wind, to accurately throw your valk's S-curve. With a wildcat or t-bird, the flight path is almost always consistent.

Some of the guys I play with that can throw further than me will do this and can flex the crap out of their discs. One of them can easily surpass the 400' range with a firebird (he says he's hit 700' before, not sure about that, but the guy can definitely throw further than most ppl).

Oh, and I prefer max weighted discs, 173-175g

I have taken the summer off because of foot and back problems, but this weekend I went out into the field across from my home to throw some discs and see how everything felt. I will say right off I am a noodle-arm, my typical drives being around 225 feet or so and my good drives being about 275 to maybe 300 once in a great, great, while. I do suspect, however, that mamy players throw more like I do then they would admit on this board...

Anyway, I took a bag of discs out and started throwing, several iterations. There was a breeze of 7-12 mph. With the breeze coming across my shoulder from behind, I was amazed to find that my crazy little 121-gm Speed Demon consistently outflew everything else by a good 30 feet. Close but no cigar were the 171-gm Z Wildcat and the 165-gm DX Beast. And to be honest, the Z-Wasp often flew as far as the other drivers (save the Speed Demon). Other discs I threw were a 166-gm DX Leopard, a Gateway Apache (166-gm or so),a 171-gm Z Hawk, and for the heck of it, a 170-gm or so Wizard (it outdistanced the 159-gm Speed Demon!)

Worst performer both with and into the wind was the 159-gm H-plastic Speed Demon. Just way too overstable, it would fly and die way too quickly.

I don't know how many noodle arms have tried a really light disc before, but the 121-gm Speed Demon was amazing. Being so light, it does not fly crazy overstable (but you do have to adjust so as not to fling it too far to the right).

I don't know whether Gateway still makes these things in such light weights, but if you can get your hands on one, give it a try. You might be very pleasantly surprised.

-- Karl Nehring

I'm pretty sure the really light Speed Demon's like that float as well. As in can-be-held-underwater-and-will-pop-up-to-the-surface float. Most people have trouble believing the predictability of a really light disc though. Players with lower arm speed normally benefit greatly from throwing extremely light plastic. It's also a good way to work on form and pretty easy on the arms to throw something significantly lighter.

Nick:

The first trick I had to learn in throwing the 121 SD was not to hold on to it too long. My first few throws went way right. The reduced mass seems to give your arm a tendency to grip it too long. Once you get over that, the disc is amazingly nice. The combination of being so light in weight and so overstable in design yields a pretty-straight-flying disc overall, amazingly enough.

It is a shame that more manufacturers do not make lighter discs.

[hawkgammon]

I'm a noodle-arm like Karl. I did the same distance test this summer with a bunch of Innova* drivers to get just one to try and learn to throw. Now I ended up injuring my elbow doing this on a football field, but I had the following average distance winner and runner-ups after fifteen throws apiece.

1. Beast
2. Valkyrie
3. Teebird
4. QJLS*
5. Eagle

I acutally had the second longest throw of the test with the Eagle at 116 paces (however many feet that is) but it had the lowest average distance, and the Beast had the highest average, and the most 100 pace throws, and the longest at 119.

[boru]

Karl-

If you want to use your 159g Speed Demon for something other than an ashtray, try throwing it forehand. Throw hard and flat, and experiment. I've had a lot of luck throwing my 164 &amp; 165g H/E Speed Demons this way. Once it all clicks for you, you'll have a shot that is good for 250-300 ft. of straight distance, with a hard (right) hyzer and skip at the end. As the disc gets some wear, it'll fly longer and straighter.

Hope you can make this work - the Speed Demon is a great disc!

Brian

I am now on the "e" Speed Demon bandwagon. It is now my primary FH airshot and FH roller disc. It made me laugh the first couple of times I threw it ... I had never experienced anything so overstable and so fast out of the hand.

[boru]

Danny-

Is that a straight up E Speed Demon? I've ordered two Evolution SDs - one straight from Gateway , one from another place - and gotten H/E plastic both times. I'm sort of under the impression that they're using this H/E blend for the Evolution SDs because people thought E was too overstable.

I'd like to check one out in the pure E plastic - I find that H/E gets the overstability beaten out of it a little too fast. Once the Speed Demon gets some wear, I can get a lot more distance out of it, but it's harder to pull off the shots that really make the disc unique: the super-low, fast S-curves and into-the-wind drives.

Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the E plastic version.

Brian

Brain, I guess I don't know which one I have. It is a yellowish/orange disc (171) and the top says evolution and I specifically asked for "e" plastic when I ordered direct from Gateway. This is the first Gateway disc I have ever owned, so I'm not any kind of expert on their plastic. The plastic seems to be very tough, but I haven't hit any trees yet, I've only thrown on a field. I will report back after I use it on a course. By the way, I don't get much distance on airshots with this disc, but the FH flick does a very nice skip after the hard fade. The distance part for me is the FH roller. Gettin' over 400' on the first couple of tries and the disc never stood up all the way. I can't wait to use it at Paw Paw!

[boru]

Both of mine have "H/E" written on the back in marker, just like the weight. The plastic is certainly tough, but at Speed Demon speeds, it's far from "scratch, scuff, chip, or dent proof," as the description says. If, after you hit a couple trees, the edge isn't chewed up a bit, you probably have a different plastic than I do.

Brian

I have one of the straight up "E" plastic ones, they are stupid overstable. It is clear with no stamp and has an EXTREMELY flat top. It weighs 176 and I can't really throw it, haven't really tried the FH, just threw it once in a field to see what was up.

No H/E on the bottom of mine, so I am guessing I have the pure "e" plastic. I was messing around on the field today with a new style FH airshot and I got that mug to go a solid 375'. That was about 40' farther than any of my backhand shots with my regular drivers. I may have just found my long distance, open field driver.