2004 Worlds Format Questions

The 2004 Worlds organizers in Iowa would like your input on a couple of poll questions to help shape the format of the tournament.

Number of Holes and Rounds Question (http://home.carolina.rr.com/rodneyg/formatpoll.htm)

"SUPPOSE you'll be playing 5 days (Mon-Fri) at 2004 Worlds. Which format would you prefer? (NOTE: This does NOT include semi-finals or finals.)

Answer 1: 8 rounds of 18 holes each

Answer 2: Fewer rounds (and possibly fewer total holes) with a couple 24- or 27-hole rounds"


Number of Courses Question (http://home.carolina.rr.com/rodneyg/numcoursepoll.htm)

"SUPPOSE you'll be playing 8 rounds of 18 holes at 2004 Worlds, and there are 8 total courses being used. How many DIFFERENT COURSES would you like to play in those 8 rounds? (NOTE: This does NOTE include semi-finals and finals.)

Answers: 4 5 6 8"

Please vote in the polls!

In addition to the polls, any discussion is welcome here.

Also, if you have other regional/local message boards that you frequent, please post pointers to these polls so that we can get as much input as possible.

Thank you!

[bruce_brakel]

I voted. I'd rather play your best courses, rather than every available course, [toughest, most challenging, elevation, scenic overlooks, unique holes, etc.] but if playing fewer courses means not playing those courses, I'd rather play more courses.

[august]

Something to consider in all of this is staffing. I was on the staff of the 2000 Worlds in Ann Arbor and had to be at the course for three rounds every day. That left very little time for sleep and eating. My suggestion is that you rotate the responsibilities so that no one person is required to be at the course every single day before sunrise. Not that I mind getting up early 'cause I don't. But I don't dig it when I don't get into bed until 11 PM every night. I was at Kensington (tournament central) every day from 6:30 AM until 10:30 PM.

There's got to be a better way to do it.

[keithjohnson]

i also voted and agree with bruce somewhat...i would like to play your 4 best courses twice so there is a chance at morning / afternoon switch to be fair for all players.....
it is the best way..especially with pools... to try to avoid weather helping/hindering any one pool...keith
former worlds td,but not player for last 3 years/msgboard/images/clipart/sad.gif

but already have reservations for des moines /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Mike,

We plan on having a large staff on hand. Becky Zallek and Mike ‘Kuzi’ Susanin went to help at the Am Worlds in Kansas City they where TD’s for the week on a course. Becky noted that they felt cooked after the week. Also the PDGA gave us a heads up on this subject earlier.

As a result every TD, we are probably going refer to them as Course Managers, will have at least 1 or 2 days off. To stop the dusk to dawn issue we may also have a couple ‘Floating Managers’ to help keep the crew fresh. Each Manager will have time to relax.

If you have any other ideas or would like to help us on any other level please contact Steve Nixt or Becky Zallek by going through the http://www.pdga.com/worlds04/index.html" ( <a href=) TARGET="_top"> 2004 Worlds Web Page</A>.

You appear to have a perspective that we could benefit from.

I just wanted to comment on Keith and Bruce's comments about playing only the 4 *best*.

First of all, we are still selecting the possible 8 courses out of close to 15 courses that have been considered at one point or another. The consensus is we would like the 8 to be permanent and of the best possible quality. So I'm pretty sure that all 8 courses will live up to the highest possible standard.

Second is if we use only 4 for the pros then the ams could think they are getting the 2nd tier of courses (which would not be true, and from what I know about who likes what around here they would probably be getting the better courses).

[august]

Mark:
It's a good thing you folks are thinking of this far ahead of time. I've never been to Iowa so, who knows, I just may offer myself up as a volunteer.

[briangraham]

A combined Pro/Am Worlds presents more challenges to the host team than hosting one of these events individually. If the pros get to play the best 4 courses twice, does that mean that the ams don't get to play them and have to play the 4 less desirable or less challenging courses twice?

I would also rather play the 4 best courses only but not at the expense of any other divisions. The advantage of both pros and ams playing the same format and course layouts is that scores can be compared between divisions. This may be an incentive for many ams to move up if they see that their scores are competitive against the pro divisions.

[august]

I believe that's the way it was at Ann Arbor. Everybody played all the courses at least once, maybe twice. Steve Peck could verify that.

[jeffnichols]

I would rather play 4 courses twice.

I may only have 2 days to practice the courses. Trying to squeeze 8 practice rounds into 2 days will be a killer on the body. If we play 8 (or even 6) different courses, I'll likely be playing some of them for the first time in competition.

Jeff, that will definitely be the case for the *casual* tournament player since they won't be able to spend a couple of weeks here in advance practicing like some of the touring pros. That being said, I think there is some skill in being able to play holes blind rather than by memorization or repitition.

This is a unique situation where you have the premier event in a sport with the majority of the participants playing it as a hobby or using it for a vacation. If this were a PGA event, you would see Tiger and Phil here for a month preceeding the event. I know, they usually only play one course but even then they'll spend a week or two in advance for that one course if it's a big tournament.

One last thing. The Des Moines Challenge tournament Memorial Day weekend '04 will be using 4 of the worlds courses in hopefully the exact setup as they will be played at worlds.

[spartan]

I agree totally with Jeff N.

Not many weekend warriors are going to be able to get to all 6-8 courses without seeing them for the first time during the tourney.

Seems like the more courses used the harder it will be to organize. Then again maybe Iowa has their ***** together.

Can't wait /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

[spartan]

another thing is the revenge factor. If you dont play the same course at least twice then there is no revenge factor at all.

I wouldnt mind seeing the finals on a course that none of the field has played but then again if I am one of those people I'm looking around my card to see if there are any locals on it.

[davei]

Use five or six courses. Four courses played twice each. One or two additional "best" courses for the semis and finals. The first Cincinnatti Worlds was done this way and it worked just fine. Let the AMs play on the Semi and final courses as two of their four that they play before their semi and final. IMO playing blind is b.s. , safari nines are b.s. unless they are after the tourney as skins. The idea in golf is to screw up or perform a shot you know. I doubt the PGA would ever do a blind tourney. They have one course and do minor changes that can be practiced at one venue.

I agree with DD (hard to believe!). Since the sightseeing in Des Moines will not compare with Flagstaff (not much does!), I hope we play killer courses that completely quench the DG hunger.

If an 18 hole course is set up with WCP in the upper 60s, then one round that day would be enough (and I would hope to play it twice during the week!). Otherwise make it 2 rounds a day at 4 courses. DD

[rhett]

The Iowa State Fair is supposed to be in town that week. What more could you want to see? /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

[ck34]

Those farm boys might get more competition than they're used to at the chip tossing booth!!

[Moderator005]

Playing courses blind is no big deal, I played all four courses at Pro Worlds 2003 in Flagstaff blind. On the two courses I played twice, NAU &amp; Hotel, during the second round I shaved 2 strokes off my first round score at that course. Would I have done even better had I practiced them? Possibly. But I probably still wouldn't have made the semi-final cut and I also wouldn't have had time to sightsee in Prescott on Saturday and hike in Sedona on Sunday, one of the highlights of my vacation.

Though the location will differ, I have every reason to believe that I'll want to do just as much tourism in Des Moines next year. Not everyone goes to Worlds to just play disc golf the entire week.

[stevev]

What will be the criteria used to get an invite to the 2004 am worlds ? Never been to one.

Just finished a 4 1/2 day whirlwind tour and review of the Iowa Worlds courses. Everyone here was fantastic to deal with, and I need to thank Steve Nixt, Becky Zallek, Mike Susanin, Steve Kenton, Mark Gates, Jon Latch, Shane Stewart, Lance Coles, Ryan Hessletine, Justin McCluen, Glenn Cowen, Rick Robertson, Joe and Dawn Thompson, Hogan Haake, Brian Gunnink, and everyone else here for their hard work and hospitality.

On average, we spent 3-4 hours walking and reviewing each of the 8 courses that will be used for Pros and Ams, and I made quicker trips to the three Juniors courses.

Without exception, every one of the course designers was willing to put aside ego issues, and in every case we had great discussions on design theory, the needs and expectations of Worlds players, and how to make specific improvements to particular holes. I am truly impressed, and I think the changes the club will be making in the next several months will produce a set of 8 courses that will stand with any set of courses used for previous Worlds.

At this point, I would encourage all pro players to ponder this point: playing courses blind is not the best option, and having to learn 8 courses is not reasonable, but if you only get to play 4-5 of these courses while you're here, you will be missing out on at least 2-3 very worthy courses.

It's not my decision to make -- I'm just providing an opinion to help the discussion. In my judgement, the 8-course schedule, despite its shortcomings, is worth considering in this case.

In the next couple weeks we'll be reviewing my recommendations and formulating a plan, so we'll post information as we finalize it.

Thanks again to everyone in the Des Moines area. I had a wonderful trip.

[specialk]

Let me be among the first to thank you for coming up to see our fine courses. As an early convert to the Houck Way, I thought it was a good idea for John to consult. I figured we'd get some good feedback and that's exactly what we got.

You all can look forward to some fine golf when you get here next August. I honestly don't know what will be the best arrangement as far as scheduling goes. We'll try to make sure that everyone gets to play the best courses at least once. Trouble is, the "best" courses are hard to define at this point. If we put together a 4 or 5 course schedule for each division, there will invariably be a course that the others will have wanted to play. Just to whet your appetite, here is what is on the table, from north to south:

Carroll Marty DGC, Ames
Big Creek State Park, Polk City
Walnut Ridge Recreation Area, Johnston
Des Moines Area Community College, Ankeny
Grandview Park, Des Moines
Ewing Park, Des Moines
Ewing Park II (temp), Des Moines
Pickard Park, Indianola

Some will be as you remember them. Others will be undergoing some major changes.

Please voice your opinion on the scheduling, whether you're an am or a tourning pro. We want to know what you think.

[james_mccaine]

Kudos to y'all and John for asking people before you make the decision. If I am fortunate enough to be there, I would prefer only four courses, especially if they are really good courses. I feel this way because in my experience, the second and third times playing a good course are the most enjoyable. With eight courses, you may never get to play them two or three times.

[Moderator005]

If all 8 courses are that worthy and we'd be missing out by only playing 4 or 5 of them, then by golly let's play all 8 courses.

I played all 4 courses blind in Flagstaff this year and improved only 2 strokes when playing a course for the second time, so it wasn't a big issue for me. If it's so important to some players, then they can come in a week before Worlds and practice all 8 courses.

My $.02 -Jeff

Jeff, I think asking people to practice all 8 courses is really unreasonable, since most are lucky if they can get there in time to spend a weekend practicing, let alone a whole week.

For those who really consider learning a course important (as Barry did this year), the 8-course schedule means a big sacrfice in order to play more good courses.

James, you definitely need to get there early, so that your first competitive round IS your second round.

For those of you who are familiar with these courses, I would love to hear your opinions as we wrap up the first phase of this process. I've already heard from a semi-shocked player who thought one course in particular was not Worlds quality. Again, my evaluation is based on making some key improvements between now and next August. My e-mail is jrhouck@centex.net

Way to go Iowa for having 8 Worlds-worthy courses.

I've played in 6 World Championships, and I would definitely prefer playing 4 or 5 courses as opposed to 8.

Like it or not, we're still a small sport. Only the 20 to 30 touring players would be able to arrive an entire week before the Worlds to practice that many courses. I'm being selfish, but I don't need any further disadvantage over those guys. It's hard enough taking one week off of work, let alone 2 weeks.

Everyone is different, but I'd be very uncomfortable playing courses blind during one of the premier PDGA events with money on the line.

Not picking on anybody, just asking a question.

Is how you play, relative to other people who may or may not have more time to practice the courses, really that important?

I mean, if I were spending a week of vacation and a week of money to go play disc golf, I think having fun and playing a bunch of different courses would be near the top of my priorities.

Sure, everybody wants to do well, but it's not always about score, is it?

ok so what are the qualifications for am worlds this year??

[Moderator005]

John,

I was agreeing with you on an 8-course schedule!Rodney said it above much better than I could, it's about the quality of the experience. I'm like most people in that I can only afford one week vacation, and while I want to do well, I'd rather not miss out on the "must-play" courses.

Aain, the few people that are into winning the whole thing can come a week early and practice all 8. Everyone else will need to play a few courses blind, but that isn't a big deal, imo.

[james_mccaine]

ppplayer, this may not make much sense, but if I had to choose between playing 8 good courses once or 4 good courses twice, I would choose the latter. On well designed courses, I almost always find the second and third time through more interesting and enjoyable than the first. Therefore, my response has more to do with enjoyment than with competitive advantage.

[rhett]

I did really well (for me) at Michigan playing every hole (except about 6) blind, so I don't mind doing that.

The big difference for me in playing courses blind is if you can see the pins from the teepads. Playing blind hole blind stinks, IMHO, as you have to walk up the fairway of every single hole looking for the basket. If you can see what you have to do from the tee on most of the holes, then I vote for more courses. If you have to take a walk on most of the holes, fewer courses.

you mentioned junior courses...does this mean that the courses used for the jr worlds have been decided upon already? if so, what are they and will we be playing any courses that the pros/ams play at all?

ellis, nothing is decided for sure yet. Depending on the chosen schedule, there may be room for Juniors to play some rounds on the pro/am courses. Which courses will be used by whom will come more into focus in the next few weeks now that John has done his review.

[disctance00]

8 world class courses!! What are they thinking in Iowa, how dare they design so many good courses! 8 courses, 4 courses, as much as I want to have a good showing in hopefully my first of many World Championships to come it does'nt really make a whole lot of difference in what the final decision is. I'm gonna play my *** off no matter what!! Thank You Houck for bringing this to the board.

rhett, come on a playing a double blind hole is tough yes but when you ace it as i did @ kilborne in charlotte nc its the best kind of feeling.

ppplayer -

I have fun when I shoot well!! I'm being slightly sarcastic, but why keep score if we're just there for vacation and having a good time? For me, it IS about the score and placing well. That said, I shot horribly at the USDGC, but I still had fun.

[bigchiz]

Ams will say "8 courses, bring it on."

Am Masters will say "8 courses is too many. Too much walking to study and play the courses."

Pros will say "How am I supposed to learn 8 course at once?"

The 2003 Ams Worlds had Masters at fewer courses than Ams, maybe that's the best solution? Ams at all 8, Masters and Pros at 4 or 5.

[ck34]

Nothing better to boost our professional image when during the tournament a reporter asks a player what (s)he thinks of the course and the player responds, "I haven't played it yet. Have you seen where the basket is on this one?"

Play 4 or 5 courses. I would likely not enter if 8 were played. Of course, I'll be able to visit Iowa for other tournaments any time to play those courses. My suggestion would be to run league nights at several of the courses during the week leading up to the tournament so those who want to play other courses in competition would have a chance. We do this all the time during the week leading up to our Majestic Supertour. It also allows some locals the chance to play with some top touring players.

Chuck, are you drunk? Professional image? Professional image?

Have you seen Ron Russel's shirts?

Have you seen Doug Porter's socks?

Have you seen Scott Papa's HAIR?!!?!!!

Professional image?

Okay, just so we're clear, you wouldn't play Worlds because you'd be afraid that some reporter might go up to a player, during play, and ask what the player thinks, and the player responds to the reporter that he doesn't know, because he doesn't know where the pin is?

Please tell me this is your idea of a lameass troll, and I just won TROLL MONKEY of the year.

I'm not even recommending the 8-course plan, but this has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

I'd almost guarantee we won't just play 4, and there are plenty of reasons why. In a 5-6 course plan, both ams and pros will play 2-4 of the same courses and then 2-3 exclusively within their division. In an effort not to slight the ams, we want the *best* courses to be played by everyone. Two of those courses will be Ewing and Walnut, but I don't know what the next two would be.

I'm trying to set the background for a problem with missing a course. Right now Grandview would most likely be one of the secondary courses that would only be played by one division. It would (figuratively) be a coin flip as to whether the ams or the pros would get it. Although it's played a little easier than some of the other courses in the area, it is a huge favorite of some of the out of town pros that have played there. I know the Minnesota guys have talked very highly of it and some players from Missouri as well. (We haven't had too many players outside of the midwest play here) It's a gorgeous park with huge trees creating a canopy over the entire park and woods lining some of the fairways.

In other words, there will be players who will feel slighted if they don't get to play Grandview. Some might go so far as to say it's a travesty. There will be those that feel the same about missing other courses. A new course, DMACC, is going to be the only course with any real water hazard. I haven't even seen it yet, but John Houck has said something like this could be a sleeping giant. If it's that good, and some would miss it, those people will be upset. Of course since they won't practice the courses they aren't playing they may not even know they are missing that good of a course.

Personally I can't even decide what I want to do. As a local playing all 8 would probably be in my best interest, but I certainly understand the concerns others have about that format. I will probably vote for 6 courses, but I don't know how much impact I will have. Ultimately the TDs with some help from the pdga will be making this decision. I hope no matter what the outcome that everyone understands that it will be worth the trip.

I also will be recommending which courses will require more practice than others. At least 2, if not 4 play blind a lot easier than the others. Expect as much information to be made available about the holes and courses as possible. It's something that drives me crazy at other tournaments and I will do my best to make sure that there will be plenty of information on signs and maps.

[ck34]

Six was too many at Ann Arbor although three were 24 holers.

[discette]

The Pros can skip Grandview. I never liked that course. Probably because of the 100 or so people who picnic and play softball right on the course. Like you could even begin to keep them out of the park for a whole week!

Indianola? Is there more than one course in Indianola? I played a course there with about two trees, surrounded by farmland with constant 40 knot winds. I don't need to play that one in a World's competition.

I love Ewing, I am sure I would love the temp. (If it is the one we used to play before the current one was installed.) Walnut is awesome and so is Big "Poision Ivy" Creek. Both have fantastic views of the resevoir. I also like the Ames course.

Disclaimer - I have not played the Poison Ivy course since it was installed several years ago. It was installed in a poison ivy jungle. They have been keeping the PI under control since then.

Discette, I think I'm confused. You played Big Creek when it was a poison ivy jungle, but you still loved it?

The Worlds web site will have EVERY hole of EVERY course listed complete with pictures and description. I know this is a poor substitute but it may be a way to help some people to get a glimpse of the layout.

Currently we do have four course descriptions on the Worlds site (they have been there since March). We hope to add two more (Waterworks, Ames, and Pickard) in the next couple months; maybe sooner. As changes occur we will adjust the web site to reflect the updates.

The thorough evaluation by John Houck will result in some substantive changes in every course. I, as do many other people involved in the event, feel that John’s approach to course layout may help to bring continuity to the various courses to be encountered by all the players.

To view Grandview:
http://www.pdga.com/worlds04/grandview.htm

To view Ewing go to:
http://www.pdga.com/worlds04/ewing.htm

To view Big Creek go to:
http://www.pdga.com/worlds04/bigcreek.htm

To view Walnut Ridge go to:
http://www.pdga.com/worlds04/walnut.htm
Keep in mind that Walnut Ridge is currently going under a major overhaul / improvement.

Also we plan to offer a DVD of the Des Moines Disc Golf Club’s Bid for the Pro Worlds for sale as a fundraiser. This bid was strongly instrumental in the awarding of both Pro and Am Worlds to Des Moines. For anyone looking to put on an event like this it would serve greatly as a template for future bids.
Also included will be some 3000 pictures of holes arranged by course and by hole for those of you with a little time on your hands.

[keithjohnson]

By John Houck on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 06:23 pm:
Just finished a 4 1/2 day whirlwind tour and review of the Iowa Worlds courses.
On average, we spent 3-4 hours walking and reviewing each of the 8 courses that will be used for Pros and Ams, and I made quicker trips to the three Juniors courses.

Without exception, every one of the course designers was willing to put aside ego issues, and in every case we had great discussions on design theory, the needs and expectations of Worlds players, and how to make specific improvements to particular holes. I am truly impressed, and I think the changes the club will be making in the next several months will produce a set of 8 courses that will stand with any set of courses used for previous Worlds.

as long as they don't use austin's red clay tee pads(round rock nat'l doubles years),they can't be all bad http://www.pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

i vote for 4 twice, or max of 6 with "best 2" twice for the 8 rounds....not getting to have second tee shots at worlds courses and not having a chance to play them twice just seems to be not worthy of an EVENT that costs about 1000 bucks minimum to travel to....
that's my vote....and either way i'll finally be playing singles at a worlds for the first time since 2000 so i'm looking forward to iowa!!
(even if that means i have to see clue for a whole week http://www.pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif )

[chains11864]

VOTED....would like to suggest that a poll be taken on bringing "Worlds Doubles" back to "Worlds".

I may be the only one who does not want to participate in the "Texas World Doubles" tournament each year?...Many people can not afford 2 seperate events...playing the same course over and over is silly when it may be better suited for a single aspect of the game: i.e. distance, accuracy etc...I think the most important thing is that the fact that "Worlds" moves across the country allows people to plan ahead, and gives more players a chance to participate. I personally do not like the idea that "Worlds Doubles" will forever be attended by: X number of touring Pros, and then the same 50-100 people who happen to live nearby.

2 more cents

[discette]

John - Yes, I like Big Creek. I believe it was 1999 that DM hosted a tournament in late August, within weeks of putting the course in. Nearly all the rough along the farways was poison ivy. A lot was taller than me. It was everywhere!

Being the smart type, I kept wiping down with alcohol wipes during the rounds. I only got a very small patch. But wow, I never knew just how bad some people could get poison ivy. They looked like their whole body went through a meat grinder. Mamy wore long pants and long sleeves (in August) and were still covered in oozing puss. That is when I truly knew I didn't have a problem with poison ivy.

I was able to see this was a great course, plus I love the resevoir. Like I said, they have done tons of PI management. Plus there are fantastic campgrounds minutes from the course.

[beckyz]

Discette, regarding your statement about Grandview:

"Probably because of the 100 or so people who picnic and play softball right on the course. Like you could even begin to keep them out of the park for a whole week!"

The Des Moines Park and Rec. is roping off the softball area and playground area and we have the shelter the entire week. We shouln't have a probalem with this.

Also, the temp course at Ewing is in a totally different location than the one you played a few years back. Ewing II It is directly across the street from the current course and the pond comes in to play on a couple of holes. It will be a shorter, more technical course than Ewing I.

Thanks everyone for your input and especially for John Houck's!

Another plug for reserving your hotel room early -30,000 AAU Jr. Olympics people are in town for the three weeks before our event. They leave town on August 7th. Please reserve your room early at the Sheraton Four Points, you can even reserve it now if you want. Also, if we get 125 rooms filled at the Sherton, we get $10,000 worth of ballroom space for free for the entire week. The Flymart will be in the huge ballroom.

We also have the Holiday Inn next door as our second host hotel. And we are planning on having a couple of outdoor events in the evening behind the Holiday Inn in the grassy area. Yeti is bringing in some great music that will be shown on the Show-CoMotion stage that the Des Moines Park and Rec. is letting us use for free. That information will be up shortly on our website. But I'll go ahead and include it now. Also, the Holiday Inn is taking on a first come, first serve request the free use of hospitality rooms for any Disc Golf Club that requests it.

The Holiday Inn Merle Hay is proud to be a participating hotel to provide guest room accommodations for the 2004 Pro Disc Golf World Championships.

The Holiday Inn Merle Hay has 145 tastefully appointed guestrooms, the new North City Grill restaurant and lounge, flexible meeting and banquet facilities, and a great friendly staff working to provide the highest quality guest service to make your stay and event a truly pleasurable experience.

Location and Transportation:
Holiday Inn Merle Hay is conveniently located at 5000 Merle Hay Road, Des Moines, IA 50322, just south of I-80/35 at the Merle Hay Road, exit 131. The Hotel is able to accommodate over 300 vehicles, with parking for trailers and oversized vehicles, in our complimentary outdoor parking lot. The Hotel provides complimentary airport shuttle service in our ten passenger van, and will provide transportation to and from local attractions (within two miles) based upon availability. We are able to respond to an airport call within 25 minutes.

Recreation and Business Amenities:
Holiday Inn offers wonderful recreational amenities for our guests:Indoor Pool - Whirlpool - Seasonal Outdoor Pool - Fitness Room - Outdoor Grassy Areas to Utilize - Game Room

Our Front Desk is able to assist you with your business needs while away from home:
Photocopies
PC with Internet Access
Scanning &amp; Printing
Fax (local and long distance)
Office Supplies
Fresh Coffee in the A.M.
Same Day Valet Laundry Facilities

Holiday Inn is also offering the use of our hospitality rooms complimentary (based upon availability) for individual groups to utilize.

Holiday Inn is also ‘pet friendly’ property, so you don’t need to leave the little ones, or big one behind or at the kennel.

Guestroom and Rate Information:

140 Total Standard Rooms
Either two double beds or one king bed *All standard rooms are equipped with iron and ironing board, 27” color television with expanded cable, including HBO and Disney, Lodgenet Pay-Per-View entertainment services (movies, Nintendo 64, high speed internet browser, and CD library), coffee &amp; tea makers, hair dryers, voicemail, two telephones per room with dataport access, USA Today newspapers (weekdays only), free local phone calls and 800 number access, and on-site guest laundry facilities
*Cost - $62.00 plus 12% tax (for single to quad occupancy)

5 Total King Executive Rooms
King executive rooms include all the amenities of our standard rooms, the
executive rooms have an extended living/working area, larger guest bath facilities,
sleeper sofa, microwave and refrigerator.
*Cost - $82.00 plus 12% tax (for single to quad occupancy)

NOTES:
*PDGA 2004 World Championship rates are available for dates prior to and following the events dates of August 06th through the 15th

*There is not a minimum length of stay for the your reservations at the Holiday Inn Merle Hay for the PDGA 2004 World Championships

Reservation Information:
Holiday Inn Merle Hay will take reservations for the 2004 World Championships until July 16, 2004, after this date we cannot guarantee availability. To make your reservations call the hotel direct at (515) 278-0271 or toll free at (888) 332-IOWA (4-6-9-2). When making the reservation you must mention you are with the Disc Golf World Championships group

For more hotel information or to print off maps, please visit us at:
www.holiday-inn.com/dsm-merlehay (http://www.holiday-inn.com/dsm-merlehay)

[mattdisc]

Having to learn 8 courses in 2-3 days is just another reason to qualify for the USDGC.

[danniestacey]

Are the course going to be in the Long\Long positions for the Open players?

[discette]

Grandview is nice with those giant old trees. It is a beautiful city park, in a totally different way from Ewing.

If you could only play four

Pros: Ewing, Walnut, Big Creek, Ames or Ewing 2

Really Old Pros at Grandview, Big Creek, Walnut, Ewing II. (Easiest on the knees)

[specialk]

Daniel,

The courses probably won't follow a strict long-long set up. When we reviewed each course, we found that sometimes a certain hole was better from the short tee, or the short pin worked better, to contribute to the overall balance of the course. Then there are a few situations where we are featuring an ultra-long tee (or pin) to provide some par 4's or 5's to make it more in the spirit of a Winthrop Gold. It will be a mixed bag. We're still sorting this out at this time.

[danniestacey]

Thank you. Can't wait for a vacation.

Keith/Discette-

You guys need to understand that we can't just reserve the *best* courses for certain divisions. One of the major considerations is that both the Ams and Pros get to play the *best* courses. Unfortunately that will not allow them to be played twice by anyone.

We certainly appreciate your opinions, but please keep in mind that we need to remember what will be best for all!!!

OMG do I sound PC or what?

Now, let's talk about Pickard. Ahhh, forget it. You'll just have to wait and see Suzette. Although it sounds like Gator will be giving up all it's little secrets soon enough. I can't get enough of that course. But that just goes to show our dilemna. You like Big Creek and could do without Pickard and maybe Grandview. I love Pickard and really don't care too much for Ewing. And then there will be plenty of people who don't like Big Creek and love Ames.

I'm glad I don't have the final say.

[keithjohnson]

By Clue on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 04:26 pm:
Keith/Discette-

You guys need to understand that we can't just reserve the *best* courses for certain divisions. One of the major considerations is that both the Ams and Pros get to play the *best* courses. Unfortunately that will not allow them to be played twice by anyone.

We certainly appreciate your opinions, but please keep in mind that we need to remember what will be best for all!!!

if i remember the first post....it asked for votes and opinions.....i gave both and at the end i posted it didn't matter because i was playing anyways....
you're starting to read posts like nick does clue http://www.pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
next you'll be saying that my vote is MUTE anyways http://www.pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Keith, we can only hope that one day all your points will be mute.

There's going to be a lot of disagreement over which courses are best. None of you has even seen DMACC yet, and I can guarantee that there will be players claiming that as their favorite.

[jackinkc]

When will DMACC go in? I am thinking of heading up there this weekend, unless I stay here to work on the new courses here this weekend. BUt it looks cold in IA this weekend. Any idea on ETA?

Jack :eek:

It looks like spring will be the timetable. I found an old bird-eye shot of the campus. The course (http://www.captainjack.com/dm/dmacc.html) will wind around the lake and to the right of the lake beyond the perview of the picture.

[jackinkc]

Thanks!

Jack