The PDGA has goofed again...

On the course directory here on the PDGA site is bunk. For some lame reason the PDGA has changed course information on the Lakewood Park course in Valparaiso from the Duneland Disc Golf Club to a lame [*****] cheating, lying, manipulating thief. How could this be possible? How could the PDGA let any dilhole call up and change course info without any authorization? This pud that has his [*****] site being promoted steals from courses, his way is just to sell wherever he wants without a license. He will show up at courses when the club guys are not there and sell to anyone, without the clubs permission. This needs to be fixed now. They are having a tourney soon and dont even have the club name on the PDGA site or the CORRECT person to contact for info. Art Heilmann has busted his back for this course and his club. GIVE HIM HIS CREDIT AND GIVE HIM THE CONTACT INFO BACK AND KICK THIS BART DILROD THE HELL OUT!

That's a big screw up and it hurts the club. Art's been a big part of history in disc golf in Indiana and has taken a good share of lumps and scrapes for being the front man to getting a course in Porter Co. and he has been a great encouragement to the sport. PDGA(Cliff Towne) needs to recognize this and pay closer attention to the heroes of the sport and support them in their efforts.

Why would this PUBLIC RANT even need to be done? I suppose that any jaggoff that contacts the PDGA for an existinbg course can have it changed for their benifit? Thats just down right lazy [*****]! Rant...You want a rant? This was only a HUGE mistake that needed to be told to the PDGA members that they should be aware of. How much money has the Duneland Club lost because of this joke of a mistake. Dont bother giving me idiots to contact, thats useless. This is a easy fix and should be IMEDIATE. Art is the reason for many of us being in this sport and giving as Art does. For Art to be screwed and the Duneland Club to be screwed is unbelievable. I can appreciate that there are mistakes to be made but to change info with NO questions asked is [*****]! Just fix it and dont waste your time typing lame [*****] crap to me about who to contact.

Just so everyone knows...Art is the most giving, caring, man for the sport that I have EVER met and if you [*****] with him I will rip you to shreads! Bart better watch his back!

love always /msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

[ching_lizard]

Holy tirades there Dude! Give the guys a break will ya? It isn't like the whole entire PDGA deliberately tried to hose over Art Heilmann or anything... At worst, maybe Cliff made an honest mistake, or maybe he was deliberately duped by someone...you at least owe it to Cliff (probably just another volunteer) to give him the benefit of a personal explanation before launching into an anti-PDGA campaign.

I mean even the dang title of this thread is demeaning. Somebody been feeding you ground glass for breakfast again?

PDGA DUES AT WORK /msgboard/images/clipart/sad.gif

I don't think Cliff would treat any state different than he has in Michigan. We've had several people requested changes to the directory and Cliff has always been careful to make only the changes that adding to the data for a course or were checked out with the PDGA state coordinator. I am totally suprised that Cliff is the target of this assault when his actions over the past will speak for themselves.

Anger might be warranted but it is not the PDGA directory or its' administrator that need to be the target.

[discette]

You know someone on this message board who used to have legions of disciples has become more like wwwwwwihatethepdgabecausetheyputmeinthecpool, and will take every opportunity to bash the PDGA.

[gang4010]

Mark,

Wow are you out of line. You yourself could have had this MISTAKE fixed in as much time as it took to bash the volunteers who do (and have done) their best for us for nothing. As unfortunate and opportunistic as this mistake appears to have been - fixing blame hardly does the problem any good now does it? Because if you know/knew Cliff Towne - you would never accuse him of purposefully acting against ANYONE's best interests.

Good for you for paying attention - and perhaps for helping to right a wrong - but jeez man - use your head.

[neonnoodle]

No Comment.

[seewhere]

I emailed in about the Round Rock course needing updating let's see HOW LONG IT TAKES /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

[airspuds]

PLEASE CHANGE AGE OF
DISC GOLF DORK TO 6 ON BIO PAGE

ALSO, PLEASE GO PLAY THIS AWESOME COURSE
IF YOU DONT LIKE THE LONG HOLES (OR IF IT IS GETTING DARK OR YOU DONT HAVE THE TIME)
YOU CAN SKIP 12 13 14
AND STILL GET 18 IN
THOSE 3 EXTRA HOLES WERE A GREAT IDEA

PLEASE ALSO REMEMBER TO USE SPELL CHECK SOMETIMES

OH BY THE WAY I THINK THERE IS A TOURNAMENT
ON 9/21

THX ART AND EVERYONE ELSE INVOLVED WITH
VALPO COURSE

I DON'T EVEN MIND PAYING TO PLAY

THIS IS ONE OF DUMBEST THREADS EVER

[Pizza God]

Mike, STOP YELLING

CWare - the ball has already been rolling, I already got an email and confirmed it earlier.

Oops, no phone number. They might need that to contact Art 1-219-362-3147. Hopefully they can fix that before the tournament(cliff),thanks/msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

[klemrock]

Someone did that to our course entry last year, but after one email, was able to be corrected.
I understand the frustration and even anger, but you called more attention to this embarassment than it would have garnered without your tirade.

[seewhere]

got an email form the man himself. ROUND ROCK will be updated in no time. thanks

[clifftowne]

Hey folks,

Below find a slightly edited email that I sent to angry discgolfdude. Spent too much time on it so forgive me if youyr update does not get handled until tomorrow....

Please contact me if you find any other errors in the course directory database. You should email me directly at coursedirectory@pdga.com, because i don't have much free time to spend on this discussion board lately (3 year old daughter, just moved....etc.).

Thanks, Cliff Towne
PDGA Course Directory
"Dear discgolfdude,

Nobody has asked me to return Art Heilmann as the contact for the Lakewood course. I would be happy to do so, of course. I will do it right away, just as I would have if you had emailed the update directly to me instead of posting angry unfair assumptions up on the pdga message board. Please provide me with some current contact info for Art. (Just got his phone from Moses - thanks)

Bart Zandstra contacted me with a number of course contact changes and as usual, I cc;d the email that I had for Art - no response (bad email). I also took the time to call Bart - his explanation of the change made sense (he said he was the webmaster for a regional club). I even tried to contact Art by phone with the home phone number I had (219-926-3843) but the number was no good. So, after careful investigation of this update (2 phone calls is unusual), I processed it

Hey - feel free to trash my reputation in public for my failings - I do sometimes screw up!..hehe, but this was not one of them. You have to at least email me and try to fix the info before trashing me - it is time consuming work to keep the info current on over 1400 courses. Really, dude...look at all the trash you said about me just because some guy managed to slip a bad contact change by me. Hey that happens every so often - the system is good but it does not catch all the wrong updates - I have to count on folks to shoot me an email and let me know that someone slipped one by me - hopefully before they unfairly trash my reputation in public.

So -...I can tell that you are angry, but hey - be fair and think about checking out the facts and the actual job that someone is doing for you before you trash them in the future. Also - I have to count on folks like you that use the course directory to help me keep it current. If you see any of the info is wrong on any of the other courses in your area - please just email me the updates at coursedirectory@pdga.com so I can fix them before someone else gets irate - cool?. And hey - I'm not angry with you - you just got upset and made a mistake by trashing me on the discussion board without having the facts - that's ok - mistakes happen. If you end up posting an apology up there - let me know so I can check it out - it is nice seeing your name in print when they are saying good things about your work - /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif And please...don't forget to send me Art's current contact info for Lakewood (just phone and/or email).

Thanks, Cliff Towne
PDGA Course Directory"

And they wouldn't let DGD be a cop?

"Maybe this will teach you to RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!"

[discette]

I think it had something to do with the psychological tests the CHP made him take.


DGD, please get over your beef with the way World's was run. Now that you are ranting against the PDGA you sound just like wwwvictor. We used to count on you to put guys like that and Big Red Killer in their place. Now, snap out of it, and be the message board bully you used to be, not an anti-PDGA bully.

Gone too far to the darkside he has.

[Dick]

Cliff rocks! I don't know him, but i love his directory!

[chains11864]

NICK....NO COMMENT?....yep there goes a pig flying right outside my window...

Chains

Okay Mark, what do you say to the nice man? C'mon, loud enough for us to hear it.

*tapping foot, arms crossed* We're waiting...

As for Nick's no comment, I wondered why the ground was getting cold beneath my feet. /msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

[gnduke]

It would seem to me that having correct contact information (phone number and email) are more important than having the correct person.

For a traveling player, the ability to get a response to a query is more important than talking to the absolutly correct person.

The main purpose of this rant and raving has been lost somewhere, stop focusing on DGD, refocus on the how Art got cornholed by a fellow compadre of the game, I think his name is Bart "ITHINKIAMTHESHIT" Zandstra......It will be interesting to see if he shows up for leauge night this week. Does this put Bart in the same category has his good friend "Stealin Rob"?.....hhmmmmmmmm

[rhett]

So why don't you dill-holes take your anger out on this allegedly shady character who pulled the fast one and quit blaming the PDGA for everything wrong in your lives?

I just love it, one guy allegedly dupes a freaking volunteer and all of a sudden the entire frickin' PDGA is a piece of crap that goes out of it's way to doo-doo on some other volunteer somewhere.

That's just beautiful, ya morons.

The discgolfdude has always caused problems here. Why he is not banned I will never know. Others have been banned that have done far less than him. The real mistake that the PDGA is making is not banning discgolfdude from at least this message board.

At least they should confine him to the c pool.

[gnduke]

Isn't the real issue that the contact information for the course was out of date or incorrect ?

If Cliff had been able to contact Art in the first place the changes would never have been made and this thead would never have been started.

Well, maybe not this exact thread, but DGD would have found something to rant about. When he forgets his meds...

[airspuds]

not sure if phone # correct but
when i tried emailing art
it was kicked out (not sure where i got
the email - but it kicked out)

as far as i am concerned barts site
is the some best info available for oly fields
and the IN courses (incorrectly linked on his site - oops) in hammond, munster, valpo, lemon lake

if you have played lemon lake
its a great course lots of work done by
the club (cummings, triumph, brown, jay, homie and several others (to who i says thx again) that
(im pretty sure that dose/could include bart)

i think if he was doing something AGAINST
the clubs in the area "hey wanna buy a disc"
out of the trunk dont you think the club would have something to say about it

[klemrock]

hahahahaha
rhett said 'dillholes' again
AND still makes another valid point

Mike, what's the url of that site? I'd love info on courses like Olympia Fields and others down that way. Thanks. Gonna be at the Blast?

Feel the love...I was politly asked by a friend of the course to do as I did. Bart is THE bad guy here not Cliffe. BUT this does not settle well with me anyway. I think a better job of contacting Art COULD have been done. Cliffe did not know that Bart is a [*****] [*****] and screws all he knows. Now that you know why I had to do it here ya go.

Sorry for burning you Cliffe.

Now I shall respond to some of the posts...

Ching, I never said that it was deliberate but thanks for putting words into my mouth to make look even more evil, pud. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Discette, I was happy to be in the C pool, I was just ****** that I got [*****]. I am not turning into wwwmenarehot.

Craig said..."you would never accuse him of purposefully acting against ANYONE's best interests." Looks as though you read Chings post more than mine.

Mike Walsh...bite me.

Klem...That was the point.

Me becoming a cop had nothing to do with my mental state.../msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

Rich Myers...You are correct!

Rhett, get a hair cut/msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Jay Yelas, nice try [*****] dart, I havent crossed the fine line, yet.

Walsh...Bart screws everyone he knows, dont even attempt to make him a nice guy.

Thanks to all for keeping this alive and helping me to accomplish my goal. Sorry again Cliffe, thanks for hard work and remind me to kiss you if we ever meet./msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

btw...I was also told that the PDGA was contacted DAYS before I started this...

[airspuds]

point well taken

just my 2 cents

[gang4010]

Mark - no, just yours

Just happened that Ching and I reacted to you similarly. I think what Cliff posted says it all.

I can see your reaction against this Bart person as legitimate - especially if he is as you say. Still doesn't excuse your bashing Cliff - did you call him as many times as he tried to call Art?

Consider these facts that have been revealed though.
* Apparently Art had not kept his information up to date, so his contact info was useless. That is nobody's fault but his own.
* If Bart hadn't done what he did - it would still be useless - so ironically - there is a positive side to the incident.

Side note: Where is it written that only a club or course pro can sell discs at a course? When I first started playing - I used to travel with a couple hundred discs wherever I went. Sales paid for a little gas money - but mostly I took profits and ended up building a course with them. I don't think I affected anyone's revenue in any significant way - on the contrary - I gave a few folks the opportunity to buy hotstamps that they couldn't get any other way. I don't know - maybe it's all different now - and everybody is out for themselves.

Craig, some clubs have to pay out the arse for being there and pay for thier own upkeep. Disc sales is the main revenue for some courses other than donations from players that are already giving more than they can, thus any dillhole that just takes discs to any course knowing this about that course can rot in hell. This aint the 70's anymore.

nuff said...

He said DILLHOLE HAHAHA/msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

[channelz]

This is a copy of my e-mail to Cliff. If you are not brave enough to identify yourself please keep your comments to yourself.

Hi Cliff,
I heard about this recently and I guess I started some controversy that you took the brunt of ....for that I apologize. I still can't believe how mis-construed this got. I volunteered my time and web space to post a site for NW Indiana disc golf info. I had Brian Cummings blessing to take over the contact for all the courses and I did change Valpo without talking to Art. I see Art almost weekly and he never mentioned this problem to me. Art and Phil Farrell are the 2 main guys for the Valpo course. They have put so much time and money into that beautiful course...it is truly amazing. They are the nucleus of a core of people that have given Valparaiso Indiana a slice of disc golf heaven. I too have spent many hours working on courses, mostly Lemon Lake, so I can fully appreciate their efforts. My reason for changing the contacts was stated in your post on the discussion thread.....Art's contact information was not current and even when he is current he does not respond in a timely manner. I actually thought he would appreciate my lightening his work load. I am constantly communicating and this seemed natural to me as Art is always hard to get ahold of. I never intended to slam him or take any of his credit....I was trying to help. It is true that I sell alot of discs and I have a link from the club site to my e-bay store. I thought this would be an added service and it never occured that discgolfdude would be so offended. Perhaps his failed business is the main reason he was so upset as I do sell alot of plastic. I had actually gotten a response from him to an e-mail query about 2 weeks before this public bashing took place so he knew how to contact me yet never did.
A few things that did not get mentioned in the thread are these:
A. I donated a discatcher to the Valpo course to help complete the first 18 holes.
B. I am a dues paying member of the Duneland Disc Golf Club....wonder if DGD is...
C. In the past six months I donated 2 discs to Arts personal disc sale box for the club.
D.I sponsered the tourny there last week...I was the only sponser.
Because of no promo or pre reg the tourny had a mere 11 open players....a shame for such a fabulous course. Thare was much controversy about the pay-out...or lack of....talk to Barrett White for details but I will say I have never played a tourny that has had such a whacked job of payouts....that might be why none of the 3 Heilmans played this tournament on their home course.

Regards,
Bart Zandstra
Channel Z Disc Jockeys
www.ChannelZDJ.com (http://www.ChannelZDJ.com)
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