MA3 players need to read the rule book

Played in an event on Sat. where the person who got 2nd, never marked his disc anytime, and slapped the chains half the time.Then I realized that about 3/4 of the players were doin the same.I know I should call the warning for the infraction, but in this instance I would have spent more time stroking people than trying to keep my game up.This was the worst I have seen, but at every tournament I see the same kind of things just not so widespread.Hoping maybe the TD could call out the MA3 class and say no tolerance.comments please?

[xterramatt]

I would say that if people are playing in MA3, it's probably their introduction to a PDGA tournament. You should do one of 2 things. Either teach them the proper way to play in a tournament, or allow them to continue. By doing nothing, you merely perpetuated their ignorance. I am aware that not knowing the rules should not be tolerated, but we are talking about RECREATIONAL disc golfers. These are people out there to have fun. They may never have played with anyone but their "buds". If you don't show them the right way, or point them to the rulebook, how will they learn?

My first Am tournament taught me a thing or 2 I did not know from hundreds of rounds of casual and nonsanctioned doubles play.

Give a man a fish and he has dinner, teach a man to fish and he can survive. or something like that...

It takes a lot less time and energy to teach the proper etiquette than to stew over it for an entire tournament.

I usually say something to someone after a blatant infraction (informing them of the rules, not stroking them), or after the round is over. It's usually only during the first round of a tournament that such things occur, and a newbie is grateful for being shown the way.

Tomas, the only way I learned some of the basic rules was by people on my cards in tourneys I played in telling me about them. By keeping your mouth shut, you're becoming part of the problem, rather than the solution. I'm not suggesting you stroke everyone anytime you can, although no one would fault you for doing so, but just saying to someone, "Hey, you can't do that, its against the rules," will often take care of the problem.

What I've used with great success is, "You know, there are plenty of folks who would stroke you if they saw you do that. Just thought you should know." That usually takes care of it right there. If the attitude of a player is that they could care less, then I'll GIVE THEM a reason to care. You know, like a little something on their scorecard to help adjust their attitude. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Being quiet or hoping that the TD warning folks takes care of the problem, will never get the job done.

I second the "You know, there are folks out there that would stroke you for that" approach. Has worked for me for years. Also, the "Hey, you can't do that" approach for folks that should know the rules is also great.

[jconnell]

Most, if not all, MA3 players are typically new to the tournament scene and new to a lot of the rules generally enforced only at tourney time (such as properly marking the lie and holing out). There's a reason this division is called recreational and/or novice. The only way they will know they are doing anything wrong is to tell them.

And no need to make yourself out to be a bad guy to them by making official warnings and strokes right away. Start by simply explaining the proper way to do whatever it is that they are doing wrong. Chances are, it is not that they are intentionally circumventing the rules, but that they didn't know how the rules read (I've even heard the line "there's a rule about that?"). Simple solution is always to say something to them. Either they'll thank you and know for the future how to mark their lie or hole out, or they'll know you're watching and not "cheat" in your presence/clipart/wink.gif.

No offense intended by this next statement, but if you saw a player doing what you describe and didn't say anything to him/her at the time, there's no sense in complaining about their 2nd place finish after the fact. Comes off sounding like sour grapes, whether it was your division or not.

Friendly reminders and advice can go a lot further toward the development of responsible, rule-abiding players than ignoring mis-plays and asking for someone else to institute "zero tolerance" on newbies.

--Josh

[27dogs]

tomas are you talking about the mckinney tourny?

I was not complaining where he finished,I beat my self, 9 stroke difference between 2 rounds.Thanks Josh, thats basically what I was lookin for.I did tell the guy to mark his disc, but my game is so mental that an arguement would live in my head the rest of the day.Mark, I wont be quiet anymore, but I still wanna be nice, cause I just play for fun.

Not saying, but no I am not talkin about Danny.

[27dogs]

i knew you wer'nt talking about danny, but i also know the guy he tied for second, doesn't mark his lie sometimes. and will slap chains. but he has never played in a sanctioned tourny before either.you should've said something, he'd would have learned and you could concentrate on your game.

As someone who has a “recreational” rating, yet has played (by the rules) in at least 5 tourneys a year for the last 3 years, I can tell you that it can be very uncomfortable as well as distracting to try to police the rest of your group in the lower divisions (rec/novice & intermediate). I’ve got to agree that the “you know, some people would stroke you for that” method is the easiest way to get the point across but it doesn’t always work. After that you have to make a choice whether to stroke them or ignore it and try to play your game. I’ll admit that it’s easier to ignore the foot faults/chain slapping/ falling putts/etc. than to have the rest of the group (who are usually at least 15 years younger than me) mumbling about what a d*[*****] you are.

Jim pretty much summed up me and my game.

Bad tournament players unite!!

I play rec and I call the falling putts and the other rules and I expect the players on my card to hold me to the same standards. As an older player I know the "kids" are not always happy with following the rules but I fell I owe it to them. I had a junior player on my card this year who called one stroke to few four holes in a row. I took him aside and told him he was a great player but I would stroke him the next time he cheated. He wasn't happy but the next round his score was correct on all 18 holes and he beat everybody on the card.

this past saturday was my first tournament, but i have played with many people at many different courses. i was fortunate enough to play a round this person, and can't keep saying it was very distracting. being my first tourney and it not seeming like it was his by his friendship with most every player there, i was discouraged to say anything. i would hope that someone that plays with this guy as a friend would say to check his rule book next time.

I notice that many do not seem to understand the rules -- even some pros. Maybe TD's could remind everyone about the most commonly transgressed rules -- such as the rule which says you must stand directly on the imaginary line running from the basket pole to the center of your marker disc .
I see people of all ranks standing to the side of their marker rather than behind it in order to improve there angle (some players stand anywhere from the 8 to the 4 rather than at the 6, using the marker disc as an analog clock face).
If Am.s are playing a reminder about holing out might be in order too.
I know TD's have a lot to do, but maybe such pre-emptive reminders would save them trouble solving disputes later and it would also ensure everyone is playing the course under the same rules.

[lauranovice]

The first thing I would do if I notice a rec player not marking his/her lie is to offer a mini, assuming they may not even have one. Playing in recreational women, I try to carry at least two minis in my bag. When it is someone I know for sure has never played tournament before, I would tell them that in tournaments you can't do that (playing without marking or slapping chains). Then, I will tell them that the other girls and I would be glad to help them with rules and stuff if they want. It makes it more friendly than a warning. Plus, if they never played tournament before we usually end up helping them a little more. Then, again, women are a little different than men.

[quickdisc]

Hey Laura ,your right on teaching the correct way to play for new players. Most are not aware or have seen the incorrect way to play. They are new
and maybe a little scared to ask. I help some novice players in our monthlys. If I see something or asked about a rule ,I'll let them know the correct way as well. This way they are not confused. As long as they don't ask questions while I'm driving or putting or Interrupting the other players in the group doing the same thing. It does take some patience at times ,but helping set a new player on track benefits all of us in the long run./msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif Now. You have got to tell me the difference between Men and Women in this Sport./msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif
What am I missing /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

[bigchiz]

Last weekend I was at a non-sanctioned tournament. It was the first tournament for about 25 out of 35 people. We had a brief review of some of the rules just before calling out tee assignments. Some of the basics covered were
- safety (don't throw on people)
- marking the lie
- OB (street, water, and 2 meters up)

Next year for the tourney we're planning on a 20 minute clinic right after registration.

[anita]

I always have a short rules review before the start of the Cornhusker State Games. The CSG is the first organised event many people play.

The groups are mixed for round 1 to insure that an experienced local player is in each group to show sheep dog the group and to "gently" enforce the rules to newbies. It's worked out just fine.

Bottom line is if you don't correct them, how can you expect them to learn?

[rhett]

I like to pick a rule or two to review at the Am Players meeting. Marking or OB placement. Frequently I get some complaints after the first round about people not marking or not holing out or something, so I'll cover those rules quickly at the short pre-round2 or round3 meeting.